PDA

View Full Version : '87 Prostar 190 2500 rev limit?


500KE30
07-24-2013, 12:35 AM
I recently bought a 1987 Prostar 190. I bought it cheap because it didn't run. After replacing the battery, fuel filters, starter, spark plugs, points, capacitor and rebuilding the carb the boat now starts and idles well. The problem I have is the boat won't rev past 2500 RPM. Whether I move the throttle quickly or slowly I cannot get it to rev past about 2500. Is there a rev limiter on these boats when they are not in gear? So far, I've only started and reved the engine in my driveway while in neutral.

Thanks for your help

half a can
07-24-2013, 12:38 AM
Kindof. The throttle lever will hit the knob that you pull out to put it in neutral. This will limit the RPM's. If for some reason you want to rev it higher, push the throttle in the "reverse" direction.

500KE30
07-24-2013, 12:45 AM
I intentionally disconnected the throttle lever from the carb. I've been opening the throttle right at the carb. I want to see if the engine will rev (in neutral) before confirming the transmission is ok or not.

catamount
07-24-2013, 02:48 PM
Have you confirmed that the timing is right? There is certainly no limiter at 2500 rpm. How strong does the engine sound at 2500? Bad gas?

500KE30
07-24-2013, 03:14 PM
Yes, timing was confirmed to be set at 6 degrees. Which is what it is supposed to be according to the owner's manual. The gas is only two weeks old. The engine sounds and runs fine up until 2500. A co worker has an older fishing boat. He said his boat has a rev limit when it's not in gear. I'm taking my boat to the water today to see if it still acts that way in gear or not.

catamount
07-24-2013, 03:23 PM
6 sounds pretty late. I haven't seen that spec'd anywhere before. Everything I've read on here says initial timing should be 10 degrees BTDC. I've heard mention of 8 before, but never as late as 6.

How much advance are you getting? If your springs are rusted up and you're only getting marginal advance combined with late initial timing, this could explain your RPM problem.

As mentioned above, the only "limit" on rev in neutral is at the throttle control. If you've disconnected that, there is no limit at the throttle body.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-24-2013, 03:32 PM
Timing specs range from 6-10. I am not aware of a rev limiter. Did you set points by dwell or rely on point gap? Have you verified correct firing order?

500KE30
07-24-2013, 04:35 PM
Points were adjusted to 0.018 by gap. I do not know what my advance is. I'll have to check that. I am assuming the firing order is ok since it idles smoothly.

etduc
07-24-2013, 05:17 PM
Check to see, if you distributor is advancing properly. Also, I'd back your idle timing to 10 btdc, for running on low grade 89 or less octane.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-24-2013, 05:21 PM
Points were adjusted to 0.018 by gap. I do not know what my advance is. I'll have to check that. I am assuming the firing order is ok since it idles smoothly.

Never assume the firing order is OK because it idles. I tried that and pulled my hair out for a while. Are you getting any backfiring?

Dwell should be 26-31 and I have .017 for the gap.

After thinking about this for a while, I suspect you aren't getting any advance out of your distributor. Hood up your timing light and bring up the speed and see what happens.

How are you supplying water to your engine for driveway running? You want to be sure not to starve your engine of water. It sucks down a lot once above idle speed much.

jpage
07-24-2013, 09:08 PM
Sounds like the mechanical advance in the distributor, pull the plate out and check the springs.

500KE30
07-25-2013, 12:46 AM
Confirmed that the mechanical advance was not working. The timing never changed as I increased the engine speed and there was no movement of the rotor after taking the distributor cap off. Thanks for everyone’s help. I'll post results after replacing or fixing the distributor.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-25-2013, 12:47 AM
Confirmed that the mechanical advance was not working. The timing never changed as I increased the engine speed and there was no movement of the rotor after taking the distributor cap off. Thanks for everyone’s help. I'll post results after replacing or fixing the distributor.

Progress. :toast:

You will probably have a hard time finding advance parts. Most guys have been replacing the distributor.

jpage
07-25-2013, 01:18 PM
I just threw this one in my '84 runs great! http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d231800

catamount
07-25-2013, 05:14 PM
I just threw this one in my '84 runs great! http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d231800

That is the one I'm looking at too. Glad to know you had good luck with it.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-25-2013, 09:33 PM
This is the one I used, I needed adjustability http://www.summitracing.com/parts/maa-9-26501

Check ebay, points distributors http://www.ebay.com/itm/280937495742?redirect=mobile

thatsmrmastercraft
07-25-2013, 10:32 PM
This is the one I used, I needed adjustability http://www.summitracing.com/parts/maa-9-26501

Check ebay, points distributors http://www.ebay.com/itm/280937495742?redirect=mobile

A guy could have a points distributor, Pertronix Ignitor II and a Flamethrower II for $200.

catamount
07-25-2013, 10:51 PM
Right, but by buying an old used points distributor you could easily run into the same problem with the worn/rusted springs. I'd rather pay a few more bucks and have a brand new dizzy.

j.mccreight, may I ask why you needed adjustability?

thatsmrmastercraft
07-25-2013, 10:55 PM
Right, but by buying an old used points distributor you could easily run into the same problem with the worn/rusted springs. I'd rather pay a few more bucks and have a brand new dizzy.

j.mccreight, may I ask why you needed adjustability?

j.mccreight's ebay link was for a new Prestolite points distributor.

jpage
07-25-2013, 11:12 PM
the Pertronix II does come with adjustment springs and tips for all different timing settings.

catamount
07-25-2013, 11:12 PM
j.mccreight's ebay link was for a new Prestolite points distributor.

Oh, snap! My apologies, I took a quick glance at the picture and thought it looked used.

This is really interesting for me... I did the electronic conversion last year and THEN found out I wasn't getting full advance. I don't really want to toss out the baby (electric conversion kit) with the bathwater (dist), so to speak.

I was going to buy an all new Pertronix electronic distributor, but maybe I can find a replacement Prestolite distributor to switch out. Thanks for pointing it out.

catamount
07-25-2013, 11:16 PM
Here's a weird one, the EXACT same NOS distributor listed above for $495 (as opposed to $63.51!).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Ford-Prestolite-Marine-Distributor-E5JL-12100-CA-7020S-351W-Windsor-/230962566104

thatsmrmastercraft
07-25-2013, 11:28 PM
Oh, snap! My apologies, I took a quick glance at the picture and thought it looked used.

This is really interesting for me... I did the electronic conversion last year and THEN found out I wasn't getting full advance. I don't really want to toss out the baby (electric conversion kit) with the bathwater (dist), so to speak.

I was going to buy an all new Pertronix electronic distributor, but maybe I can find a replacement Prestolite distributor to switch out. Thanks for pointing it out.

Makes for an economical alternative and keeps the original look for those purists.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-25-2013, 11:29 PM
Here's a weird one, the EXACT same NOS distributor listed above for $495 (as opposed to $63.51!).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Ford-Prestolite-Marine-Distributor-E5JL-12100-CA-7020S-351W-Windsor-/230962566104

Someone is trying to make a killing.:rolleyes:

catamount
07-25-2013, 11:38 PM
Okay, well the one posted is an IBM-7020 (screw down cap, apparently). Mine is an IBM-7008 (clip down cap). Pertronix lists a different part number for both, so I may be out of luck moving my existing conversion kit over to the NOS distributor listed above.

However, if one is shopping for a new distributor this is a great deal.

$65.00 - NOS Prestolite listed above
$80.00 - Pertronix conversion kit (eBay)
$20.00 - New cap (Sierra 18-5352)
----------
$165.00 - Total

That's about $75 less than a new Pertronix electronic distributor so a substantial savings. Thanks!



EDIT: In the even that anyone in my position finds this thread in the future, I just stumbled upon this post.

http://www.fishtheclassic.net/forums/showthread.php?27214-Electronic-Ignition-Conversion

"The difference between the screw-down and clip-down caps is the shape of the grommet hole where the wires come out of the distributor body. I was told the kits are otherwise identical and that you could use Silicone sealant to fill the grommet voids, if any, when using the kit made for the opposite distributor. There is no change over the years or between cap types, in terms of the other mechanical dimensions of the guts of the distributors - except, because of cap clearance changes, the rotor shapes are different but kit installation does not change that."

thatsmrmastercraft
07-26-2013, 12:07 AM
Great distributor info.

Make sure to shop Amazon as well if you go the points conversion distributor and electronic conversion route.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-26-2013, 01:34 AM
Right, but by buying an old used points distributor you could easily run into the same problem with the worn/rusted springs. I'd rather pay a few more bucks and have a brand new dizzy.

j.mccreight, may I ask why you needed adjustability?

I wanted to get the optimal advanced timing for my modified 351w, I went with mallory because I see to many threads about the petronix not operating properly, and in almost 25 years I've never had a mallory part fail, on my boats or drag cars...

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-26-2013, 01:41 AM
Here's a weird one, the EXACT same NOS distributor listed above for $495 (as opposed to $63.51!).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Ford-Prestolite-Marine-Distributor-E5JL-12100-CA-7020S-351W-Windsor-/230962566104

The one marked at 500 is for a reverse rotation 351w.

catamount
07-26-2013, 08:35 AM
The one marked at 500 is for a reverse rotation 351w.

The $500 and $65 distributor have the exact same part number.

On the listing for the $65 part, there is this:

Questions and answers about this item

Q: Is the for a standard rotation (same as a car) or reverse rotation? Thank you in advance for you help.
A: These are reverse rotation, for a specific Ford Marine Engine. Thank You


EDIT: Just pulled the trigger on that $65.13 distributor linked above. It seems like a great deal on a new dist. The caps can be found on Amazon/eBay for $20 and Pertronix seems to think that the plate should be interchangeable between the 1581 and 1582 (if you are switching between screw-down and clip-down distributors).

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-26-2013, 09:05 PM
I don't know what the differences are, however the ebay units match my LH STD rotation distributor tag exactly except for the date code. E5JL-12100-CA # 7020S If your needing springs this may be the way to go as I suspect those are the same for RH and LH rotation units. Perhaps I'll pick one up and compare it to my original.
Hard to make out but it's the same.

catamount
07-26-2013, 09:44 PM
I don't know what the differences are, however the ebay units match my LH STD rotation distributor tag exactly except for the date code. E5JL-12100-CA # 7020S If your needing springs this may be the way to go as I suspect those are the same for RH and LH rotation units. Perhaps I'll pick one up and compare it to my original.
Hard to make out but it's the same.

Springs? I'm going to swap distributors entirely! I figured if the springs are worn, there are probably other worn parts as well (bushing?). It's a brand new LH dist for $65, it can't hurt. Will update in a new thread when it arrives (sorry to threadjack, OP!).

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-26-2013, 09:54 PM
Springs? I'm going to swap distributors entirely! I figured if the springs are worn, there are probably other worn parts as well (bushing?). It's a brand new LH dist for $65, it can't hurt. Will update in a new thread when it arrives (sorry to threadjack, OP!).

I thought you said it's a reverse rotation distributor. If they are for our LH rotation motors, it will help out a bunch of sick dizzy's.

catamount
07-26-2013, 11:21 PM
I thought you said it's a reverse rotation distributor. If they are for our LH rotation motors, it will help out a bunch of sick dizzy's.

Well, the seller references "reverse rotation" in the ad but it seems like he's referencing the motor rotation. As you mentioned, this is the exact same part number as you have in your boat... which is STD LH. Since it matches your part number, I have to assume it's the same and correct for this application.

For $65 shipped, it's hard to beat!

catamount
07-29-2013, 11:24 PM
For anyone still following along at home, the price on the $65 dizzy seems to have gone up to $165.00. I wonder if he had them mis-priced?

Anyway, mine arrived in good condition. It looks "newish". There are certainly a fair number of dings/scuffs/dents on the body but it doesn't appear to be used. A glance inside the internals makes it look pretty fresh.

At $65 it was a steal, but at $165 I think I'd just buy a new electronic unit. Especially if you need to buy an electronic conversion unit & new cap to go with it. For me, this should be a great solution though.

I paid $65 for this four days ago:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280937495742?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

500KE30
07-30-2013, 08:28 AM
After spending a few bucks on PB blaster and WD40 I was able to clean up the distributor and get the timing to advance but I'm still having the problem of limited engine speed. Kinda stuck right now and out of ideas.

catamount
07-30-2013, 09:59 AM
How many degrees of total advance are you getting? That is, what is your timing at idle and what is your timing at 3500 RPM?

500KE30
07-30-2013, 02:03 PM
Assuming the tachometer is somewhat accurate, I'm getting about 30 degrees at about 2500 rpm. I can't get the engine speed any higher than that.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-30-2013, 02:24 PM
That sounds in the ballpark for advance. You may have a fuel delivery issue. Assuming choke is open all the way and you are running with the flame arrestor off. Have you checked for a vacuum leak at the base of the carb. A big leak can throw things off.

500KE30
10-06-2013, 10:28 PM
After running out of time and patience, I took my boat to a repair shop. There were a few things that had to be fixed, but the biggest culprit was the ignition coil was not getting the correct voltage. The voltage regulator in the alternator was no good. After replacing the alternator and making a few adjustments to the carb, the boat runs like a champ.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-06-2013, 10:31 PM
Not enough voltage to the coil will do it. Gotta have a good spark.