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View Full Version : Question about using Fake a lake


johnnye23
07-17-2013, 07:12 AM
Guys I am still trying to figure out why my 79 S&S runs hotter at low speed vs high speed approx 195 degrees. I just replaced the raw water impeller and have yet to put it back in the water to check if it's cured.
But after reading numerous posts about the volume of water the raw water pump moves I am surprised to look at the Fake a Lake under my boat with water coming out the sides of the cup with the engine running. Is this normal ?
If not the only part in the cooling system I have not replaced or inspected is the actual water-pickup on the bottom of the boat. Are there any potential problems there ? :confused:

madcityskier
07-17-2013, 07:22 AM
Clogged with weeds/silt? Search for threads about back flushing the water lines.

JimN
07-17-2013, 08:42 AM
Guys I am still trying to figure out why my 79 S&S runs hotter at low speed vs high speed approx 195 degrees. I just replaced the raw water impeller and have yet to put it back in the water to check if it's cured.
But after reading numerous posts about the volume of water the raw water pump moves I am surprised to look at the Fake a Lake under my boat with water coming out the sides of the cup with the engine running. Is this normal ?
If not the only part in the cooling system I have not replaced or inspected is the actual water-pickup on the bottom of the boat. Are there any potential problems there ? :confused:

If you replaced the impeller recently, make sure it's in correctly- on the pump mounted on a bracket, it's easy to install it as if it was rotating backward and if this happens, the raw water pump will not work. If you saw that some of the vanes were missing from a previous impeller, remove the thermostat housing and check the small hole that allows water to pass through- it's about the size of a pencil and the rubber gets stuck there.

It's also possible that the impeller's hub is loose and isn't able to drive the vanes.

If you haven't cleared the oil cooler recently, you need to- this is supposed to be checked EVERY time you take the boat out and it doesn't take much time.

Edited to add the bold part. If you run it again, briefly touch the back of the raw water pump housing after about 15 seconds- if it's cold, fine. If the impeller isn't working properly, it can burn your fingers (it happened to me, for this very reason). If you want to check the raw water pump, pull the lanyard, disconnect the pump's outlet hose and crank the engine- if no water comes out, find out why.

Personally, I hate the Fake a lake. I want to see how fast the water is being drawn into the engine and Fake A Lake doesn't allow me to do this.

Zazzy
07-17-2013, 09:58 AM
But after reading numerous posts about the volume of water the raw water pump moves I am surprised to look at the Fake a Lake under my boat with water coming out the sides of the cup with the engine running. Is this normal ?
I bought and tried the fake a lake once but it didn't work. As you mentioned, lots of water comes out the sides of the cup with the engine running. And, lots of air (and a little water) was being sucked into the raw water system. If you run it long enough, the engine will overheat.

After reading lots of posts on the subject, I made my own. I disconnected the raw water hose from the pickup (thru the hull strainer) and connected it directly to a scrap piece of heavy garden hose, with a hose clamp to prevent the pump's vacuum from sucking in air. The end of that scrap hose was at the bottom of an ice chest which I placed on the trailer steps next to the wheels. I filled the ice chest with water and turned on the hose after I started the engine.

madcityskier
07-17-2013, 10:26 AM
Seems like the bucket is much easier. Or do you want to run it for a long time?

1redTA
07-17-2013, 10:50 AM
I use the bucket over the fake a lake, sounds like a clogged line, faulty thermostat or bad temp gauge could be possibilities as well

mikeg205
07-17-2013, 12:14 PM
bucket! always... now... I am a convert... $10 bucks to make less if you have some plastic epoxy laying around... I even added a hose now so I don't have to disconnect my raw water intake hose... just disconnect raw water at tranny cooler add bucket hose to tranny cooler... add water - go. Make winterizing a snap as I wet store with RV anti-freeze with corrosion inhibitor...

thatsmrmastercraft
07-17-2013, 12:32 PM
bucket! always... now... I am a convert... $10 bucks to make less if you have some plastic epoxy laying around... I even added a hose now so I don't have to disconnect my raw water intake hose... just disconnect raw water at tranny cooler add bucket hose to tranny cooler... add water - go. Make winterizing a snap as I wet store with RV anti-freeze with corrosion inhibitor...

I switched over to a tub. Sometime I will tune someone's carb on my boat and it doesn't take that much RPM to run that 5 gallon pail dry.

chriscraftmatt1976
07-17-2013, 12:47 PM
I have a piece of hose with an on off switch that connects directly to the intake. (strainer, tyranny cooler). It works awesome. I don't have a pic of it...

mikeg205
07-17-2013, 12:48 PM
I switched over to a tub. Sometime I will tune someone's carb on my boat and it doesn't take that much RPM to run that 5 gallon pail dry.

Your's is bigger... ;) and your right...

chriscraftmatt1976
07-17-2013, 12:54 PM
I switched over to a tub. Sometime I will tune someone's carb on my boat and it doesn't take that much RPM to run that 5 gallon pail dry.

I made up a pretty cool winterization tank. I'll post pics of it when fall comes. It's a 50 gallon drum, halved, and a hose connected to the bottom with a jabsco pump. Connect the hose at the tyranny cooler, start boat, turn on pump, drink beer till thermostat opens... Winterized...

johnnye23
07-17-2013, 01:12 PM
Thanks guys I will make a setup and ditch the Fake/Lake.

bsloop
07-17-2013, 06:17 PM
I have a Perko fresh water flush. http://www.perko.com/catalog/category/underwater_hardware/product/62/

See water flowing.
Hook up the hose and it is a direct feed.

hewlett6621
07-18-2013, 04:13 AM
I don't know what the fuss is about. I use a fake a lake and it works great. I have good water pressure and always have plenty of water coming out the exhausts. To me it seems a lot easer to setup no disconnecting hoses just place it on and turn on the hose.

mikeg205
07-18-2013, 12:05 PM
I don't know what the fuss is about. I use a fake a lake and it works great. I have good water pressure and always have plenty of water coming out the exhausts. To me it seems a lot easer to setup no disconnecting hoses just place it on and turn on the hose.

If you fill a 5 gallon bucket and leave hose in bucket running water - motor will suck off water faster than hose can deliver. For a quick test at idle shouldn't be an issue... but to run and inspect and I always amazed that my bucket drains while hose is filling bucket even with good pressure... Can't Repeat had a video but it's now gone - I will make a new video next time I use the bucket.

Table Rocker
07-18-2013, 12:18 PM
I use a Igloo Cube cooler (http://www.igloocoolers.com/Coolers/Ice-Cube/60-Quart-Ice-Cube-Roller) which I already had. About 5 feet of hose is all I bought. I use the telescoping handle to help hold the hoses.

JimN
07-18-2013, 03:07 PM
It's not pressure that matters, it's the volume of water and a raw water pump that has a new impeller can go through a low more than most homes' water supply can deliver.

Miss Rita
07-18-2013, 03:13 PM
I have great water pressure in my house. At 800 rpm the garden hose is supplying water slightly faster than the engine takes it in. At 1000 RPM it's a draw. At 1200 RPM the engine is sucking up water faster than the hose can supply. The engine at anything more than idle speed will empty a bucket pretty fast.

chriscraftmatt1976
07-18-2013, 06:26 PM
Maybe your hose isn't big enough... ;-)

Seriously, I've been running and winterizing boats off a hose for a long time, and have never had any issue with impeller damage, etc. However, I've never had a scenario where I had to keep the revs high for more than a few seconds on a hose. I know on some of the older engines if you don't use a bucket, it'll blow your head gaskets. Learned that one the hard way...

GoneBoatN
07-18-2013, 06:46 PM
I confess; I used to be a sinner and used the plunger thingy (fake-a-lake). Since the intake is quite close (actually against) the bunk board, I don't get the best of seals either. Because of that I leaked a bit too. What I noticed was with engine off; it would squirt water all over. That makes sense as with the engine off, the impeller is stopping the flow of water. When I started the engine the squirting would stop. Once I had the engine started I would adjust the spigot until I would get some water squirting out again meaning more water is going to the boat than it could ingest. I would only run the engine at idle to warm up the oil for the oil change and for de-winterization just as a quick check that all hoses were re-attached and no water was leaking. I also had my son watching the plunger thingy to warn me in the event it would slip off.

As I said, "used to be a sinner". My boat is in a storage unit at the marina just hundreds of feet from the water. I changed the oil this past early Tuesday morning. Drove to the ramp. Started the boat. Warmed up the engine. Never took boat off trailer. Went back to storage unit. Changed oil. Returned to ramp and warmed up the boat again. Back to storage unit. BTW, no one at the ramp that time of morning so no-harm-no-fowl.

So why did/do I use the fake-a-lake: my hose runs from the impeller housing to a strainer. For the life me, the one time I tried, I could not get the hose off the strainer. Same for the seacock valve. I'd rather not bust the nipple on the strainer or seacock. I know that I could run a hose from the impeller housing to a bucket but I'd rather test everything from the intake screen on up. IMO, using the fake-a-lake is ok as long as you take the proper precautions and you do not us it beyond its ability to provide water.

As a side note, there is a water spigot right next to my storage unit. When I look at the water flow rate from that hose, I would never attempt to use it with the fake-a-lake.

bcd
07-18-2013, 07:02 PM
Just because your boat impeller can suck a five gallon bucket dry quickly doesn't mean your engine needs that much water flow. I use a homemade fake-a-lake (toilet plunger and hose fitting). It takes my boat a good 5 plus minutes to warm up to thermostat cracking temp. The boat cooling system is designed to run a WOT full power with 80+ degree lake water. You are running your boat at near idle conditions with no load on the engine and your cooling water is ~60 degrees.

The cooling flow displaces the water out of the engine, so the engine is always full of water. If the fake-a-lake was inadequate, the boat would run hot. I have a hard time even warming up my boat. If you want to continue filling a bucket for piece of mind, go ahead. I just argue that it isn't needed.

JimN
07-18-2013, 07:03 PM
I confess; I used to be a sinner and used the plunger thingy (fake-a-lake). Since the intake is quite close (actually against) the bunk board, I don't get the best of seals either. Because of that I leaked a bit too. What I noticed was with engine off; it would squirt water all over. That makes sense as with the engine off, the impeller is stopping the flow of water. When I started the engine the squirting would stop. Once I had the engine started I would adjust the spigot until I would get some water squirting out again meaning more water is going to the boat than it could ingest. I would only run the engine at idle to warm up the oil for the oil change and for de-winterization just as a quick check that all hoses were re-attached and no water was leaking. I also had my son watching the plunger thingy to warn me in the event it would slip off.

As I said, "used to be a sinner". My boat is in a storage unit at the marina just hundreds of feet from the water. I changed the oil this past early Tuesday morning. Drove to the ramp. Started the boat. Warmed up the engine. Never took boat off trailer. Went back to storage unit. Changed oil. Returned to ramp and warmed up the boat again. Back to storage unit. BTW, no one at the ramp that time of morning so no-harm-no-fowl.

So why did/do I use the fake-a-lake: my hose runs from the impeller housing to a strainer. For the life me, the one time I tried, I could not get the hose off the strainer. Same for the seacock valve. I'd rather not bust the nipple on the strainer or seacock. I know that I could run a hose from the impeller housing to a bucket but I'd rather test everything from the intake screen on up. IMO, using the fake-a-lake is ok as long as you take the proper precautions and you do not us it beyond its ability to provide water.

As a side note, there is a water spigot right next to my storage unit. When I look at the water flow rate from that hose, I would never attempt to use it with the fake-a-lake.

Aside from lack of water volume, as I mentioned, the thing I didn't like about it was the tendency to slip off and fall when I moved around in the boat. Also, if I needed to run an engine for any length of time, the water supply couldn't keep up, so we used a 5 gallon water jug from the cooler. I want to see that the water is getting to the engine and as someone who was servicing boats for other people, having it fall over and cook an engine was just plain unacceptable. The setup I really liked was at the last dealership, where I had a plastic 50 gallon watering trough with a hose attachment at the bottom. Because it was lower than the exhaust ports on the transom, I screwed a piece of a conveyor belt across the long side and wrapped it part way around the ends, so water/anti-freeze would hit it and fall into the trough. For running boats, I could go WOT and not have a problem with running out but the real benefit was when I was winterizing, I put about 25 gallons of juice in it and just ran the engine on that, to get it up to temperature. It was impossible to end up with water in the block, that way. We would check the freeze point with a refractometer and add more anti-freeze, if necessary.

It was also helpful when servicing boats to do it this way because I ALWAYS checked the oil cooler before doing anything and it was right there.

JimN
07-18-2013, 07:07 PM
Just because your boat impeller can suck a five gallon bucket dry quickly doesn't mean your engine needs that much water flow. I use a homemade fake-a-lake (toilet plunger and hose fitting). It takes my boat a good 5 plus minutes to warm up to thermostat cracking temp. The boat cooling system is designed to run a WOT full power with 80+ degree lake water. You are running your boat at near idle conditions with no load on the engine and your cooling water is ~60 degrees.

The cooling flow displaces the water out of the engine, so the engine is always full of water. If the fake-a-lake was inadequate, the boat would run hot. I have a hard time even warming up my boat. If you want to continue filling a bucket for piece of mind, go ahead. I just argue that it isn't needed.

Who says the lake water will EVER be 80 degrees? Also, the amount of water drawn in when the boat is on the water is a whole lot more than a bucket will provide.

When I make comments about things like this, it's as someone who worked on other peoples' boats. If someone wants to use this for their own, fine. If they work on someone else's boat, they have a responsibility to not cause any kind of problem and if the Fake A Lake falls over, that's a problem because it usually happens without being felt, heard or seen and nothing can be done until it's too late.

drschemel
07-18-2013, 07:47 PM
Who says the lake water will EVER be 80 degrees? Also, the amount of water drawn in when the boat is on the water is a whole lot more than a bucket will provide.

When I make comments about things like this, it's as someone who worked on other peoples' boats. If someone wants to use this for their own, fine. If they work on someone else's boat, they have a responsibility to not cause any kind of problem and if the Fake A Lake falls over, that's a problem because it usually happens without being felt, heard or seen and nothing can be done until it's too late.

Don't worry, the buzzer thing will go off when the motor gets too hot! Just like when your impeller goes out and your not paying attention to the temp gage!
I agree that working on other people's boats requires a greater level of caution than working on your own.
I love the idea of catching the water coming out of the exhaust and recirculating it. Sounds like an idea for someone on the forum to make some money!

GoneBoatN
07-18-2013, 08:17 PM
...Who says the lake water will EVER be 80 degrees? ...

You know what they say about one in every crowd! :D

JimN
07-18-2013, 09:13 PM
Don't worry, the buzzer thing will go off when the motor gets too hot! Just like when your impeller goes out and your not paying attention to the temp gage!
I agree that working on other people's boats requires a greater level of caution than working on your own.
I love the idea of catching the water coming out of the exhaust and recirculating it. Sounds like an idea for someone on the forum to make some money!

I would never rely on a buzzer to tell me the engine is overheating. By the time it goes off at idle, it may be a bit late. For that matter, ask here- how many boaters have heard the buzzer go off.

The trough setup isn't that expensive and the only reason I had access to a piece of conveyor belt is that the store was on land owned by a company that did road work and repaired their own heavy equipment.

JimN
07-18-2013, 09:26 PM
You know what they say about one in every crowd! :D

OK, shallow water will be warm but a lot of places never hit 70. Lake Michigan is about 59 degrees near the shore in MKE.

GoneBoatN
07-18-2013, 09:44 PM
OK, shallow water will be warm but a lot of places never hit 70. Lake Michigan is about 59 degrees near the shore in MKE.

Oh, the dam is 1067'. What I posted was average. Last year, if I remember correctly, was around mid 80's and we were in several hundred feet of depth. That is even with river flow that is coming from the near by mountains. That's what happens when you have weeks of 100+ degree days. This year the forecast is for it to be a little bit cooler. But as they say, it's a dry heat. It's not so much the depth as it is the surface area vs the amount of cooler water incoming this time of year. You can feel the cooler water if you stick your toes down as far as you can.

bcd
07-18-2013, 11:52 PM
I never said the lake water will always be 80 degrees. When designing a cooling system, you need to design it for worst case, which is warm lake water and full engine power. The impeller flow was sized to provide enough cooling flow for the worst case. You don't need that much flow with colder faucet water and low engine power levels.

If you're working on multiple boats and want more piece of mind, the extra tank method is a more robust setup. My point was that the fake-a-lake provides adequate flow to keep the boat from overheating while trying to warm the boat up in the driveway for service/winterization.

dvsone79
07-18-2013, 11:57 PM
I've only used it 3 or 4 times, but I haven't had a problem with the fake-a-lake. I have really high water pressure. At idle, the hose is supplying more water than my boat needs. Haven't rev'd it up past about 1.5k rpms. When I run it, I always have a visual on the plunger. All I need is to get it hot enough to change the oil. I've also had success filling a bucket with antifreeze, dropping one of my tsunami pumps into it, and pumping antifreeze into the fake-a-lake (using some garden hose adapters from Fly High) to be run through the engine once the thermostat opens up. Worked pretty well for such a sinful device.