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89mastercraft
07-15-2013, 08:34 PM
1989 Mastercraft Prostar 190

I spent an hour broke down on the water yesterday with what appears to be a bad starter solenoid or possibly key switch.. I just wanted to see your opinions or if anyone has experienced this... I searched and these are the main two possibilities (from what I have been reading)

I went to start the boat after sitting for probably a good 30 minutes and I turn the key and the starters stayed on... I turned the key off and the starter was still moving.. I quickly removed the negative battery terminal and it shut off.

I waited another 10 minutes before trying to start the boat and I hooked the negative terminal back up and the key wasn't even in the ignition and the boat was trying to start.

I waited another 20 minutes and same thing.. Hooked the battery up and the starter was trying to start without key in the ignition.

Finally after sitting a while I hooked the negative terminal up and it was kinda arcing, but stopped after a short second.

I got the boat started and it didn't do it again the rest of the day..

My questions are.. How can i determine if this is a key switch problem or solenoid issue?

Also does anyone have a part number for a solenoid or key switch for my specific model

Any help is appreciated!

89mastercraft
07-15-2013, 08:34 PM
-Edit- Sorry I just realized I posted the wrong year.. It is a 1989

XavierSPL
07-15-2013, 08:43 PM
2 possible guesses I'd take:

First, bad solenoid which would be most suspect IMO.. make sure there's no frayed wires at the solenoid first or anything grounding out, etc..

Second, bad ignition switch or wiring at the switch.. you can test this by disconnecting the wires from the ignition switch and reconnecting your battery cables - if the starter still runs, it's a solenoid issue (or wires at it), if the starter was still doing it and stops once ignition switch is disconnected, the switch is bad..

89mastercraft
07-15-2013, 10:02 PM
I checked the wiring to the solenoid it doesn't look like any are frayed or grounding out, but the white white on the solenoid is kinda loose.. The nut holding the wire is tight though.

If the switch was sticking.. is there anything I could spray down inside it?

How would I go about finding part numbers for the exact solenoid I need or switch?

mikeg205
07-15-2013, 10:12 PM
has the starter been maintained? Bendix gear should be lubricated annually. Or I would get a new starter... IMO Starters not that expensive in the grand scheme of boat ownership.

89mastercraft
07-15-2013, 10:19 PM
I just got the boat probably a little over a month ago.. not sure on being maintained, but a buddy of mine was telling me it needs to be shimmed because every once in a while when I try to start it it makes a screeching sound then you haft to try again and it works perfect.

The solenoid is separate from the starter so if it's the solenoid replacing the starter wouldn't help, ya know?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-15-2013, 10:45 PM
Classic example of low amperage causing starter to stay engaged.

On my 89 351w I had a slight loss of source voltage before (battery not being fully charged) and it caused my starter to act exactly like what your describing. I put a battery tender on to ensure battery is fully charged and replaced the starter solenoid with a motorcraft heavy duty type I matched from the auto parts store, and I haven't had a problem in a couple years now. I suspect the screeching noise is because the bendix is not fully engaging bc of low voltage/amperage.

What is your static voltage on the battery?

I would load test the battery, replace the starter solenoid (the internal contacts are likely damaged) install some sort of battery tender to ensure battery is always 100% and ensure the alternator is charging.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-15-2013, 11:28 PM
All it takes is one desperation start where you use the last remaining volt in the battery to try to start the engine and you can cause damage to the solenoid contacts. This is usually the source of a starter staying engaged, and can sometimes be temporarily fixed with a sharp whack from a screwdriver handle to the solenoid. This was a common occurrence when attempting to start 60's and 70's cars in the dead of winter in Minnesota. Heavy duty solenoids were a great fix.

While solenoids sometime work for a while after such an episode, you are on borrowed time. Replace it.

jpage
07-16-2013, 01:12 AM
I had this problem last week on my '84 it was a bad solenoid, and the replacement was bad to. That happens a lot so buy two there cheap

StudLEE
07-16-2013, 07:04 AM
I had this same problem last year..twice! had the starter rebuilt, new solenoid, and new ignition switch.. haven't had a problem since..

Zazzy
07-16-2013, 10:50 AM
I had the same problem on an '88 Centurion. I bought it used and the same exact problem surfaced about 1 month into ownership. No big deal though. Here's what I did:

1. Checked battery voltage (new optima) and made sure charge was in spec - didn't fix the problem.
2. Cleaned battery connections and cable connections
3. Replaced solenoid (and offset it from the head - fabricated aluminum bracket to offset the solenoid from direct contact with the head) - didn't fix the problem
4. Tried a different solenoid - didn't fix the problem
5. Tried a different solenoid - didn't fix the problem (so, I have spares)
6. All cables were bad so I replaced them - didn't fix the problem
7. Replaced the ignition switch - didn't fix the problem. But, I noticed the wiring under the dash was messed up. So...
8. Fixed or rewired every problem under the dash, replaced fuse panel etc.

In the meantime, I had already pulled the starter and it was in bad shape (a couple months back). The gear and shaft were worn badly. I had put grease on the shaft back then and it was probably the only time this was ever done. I didn't order a new one until recently.

I was 90% finished with the rewiring before the new starter arrived. Instead of installing the new starter, I finished the wiring. When I finished, all the lights, the blower motor, bilge pump, and horn worked much better. Also, I corrected and goofy wiring in the bilge and anywhere it was needed.

I hadn't started it for weeks and when I turned the key for the first time, it fired up up instantly. It was so quick, it was startling (no pun intended).

Then, I replaced the starter.

To be honest, due to the age, everything that I did was required. So, I can't say that the wiring fixed the problem. It was one of the problems that needed correction.

Regarding the solenoids, one of the new ones did get stuck and after a couple whacks with the end of a screwdriver, it got unstuck.

Off topic...
I found that in doing all this, the bucket "fake a lake" is the easiest method to supply raw water.

89mastercraft
07-16-2013, 04:58 PM
Thanks for all the replies guys...

Can someone please help me find a part number for a solenoid? NAPA stocks marine parts and from what I have been reading i need a marine solenoid.. a car solenoid is NOT safe due to arcing?

Surely someone has a part number or will something off of a pleasurecraft work?

What about this one? The only one skidim has

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R130001

thatsmrmastercraft
07-16-2013, 05:08 PM
That will work, but I'm not sure there is a marine specific solenoid. The alternator and starter have screens to block spark whereas the solenoid is sealed.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-16-2013, 09:04 PM
Thanks for all the replies guys...

Can someone please help me find a part number for a solenoid? NAPA stocks marine parts and from what I have been reading i need a marine solenoid.. a car solenoid is NOT safe due to arcing?

Surely someone has a part number or will something off of a pleasurecraft work?

What about this one? The only one skidim has

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R130001

original part # on my '89 was Prestolite SAZ 4201N

since you want NAPA,http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Starter-Solenoid/_/R-SME185801_0134711095

89mastercraft
07-16-2013, 10:15 PM
That will work, but I'm not sure there is a marine specific solenoid. The alternator and starter have screens to block spark whereas the solenoid is sealed.

original part # on my '89 was Prestolite SAZ 4201N

since you want NAPA,http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Starter-Solenoid/_/R-SME185801_0134711095

NICE!

I just got the solenoid off and on the back of it, it reads 0907 12V.

Looking at the link you provided holding my solenoid close to the picture and comparing it, it looks like the same solenoid, but only the posts are in different locations. Wonder if it would still work? Or is there a way to cross this 0907 part #?

Thank you guys for all the help!

89mastercraft
07-16-2013, 10:18 PM
Also on my relay there are a total of 4 posts, only 3 being used.

Two big ones and two small ones.. There are two wires that go to one of the big posts, one to the other big post and one to the small post.

I am assuming battery is on a separate post, along with this other wire I have on here (does it matter which one)? starter is on the other big post and then the S on the relay, does that stand for signal?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-16-2013, 10:33 PM
Also on my relay there are a total of 4 posts, only 3 being used.

Two big ones and two small ones.. There are two wires that go to one of the big posts, one to the other big post and one to the small post.

I am assuming battery is on a separate post, along with this other wire I have on here (does it matter which one)? starter is on the other big post and then the S on the relay, does that stand for signal?

Yes it will still work properly.
Honestly this is not hard, label the wires where their at on solenoid, go to auto parts store, match it and get a new one.
s=start signal, ignition system
a=battery
b=starter motor side
I= ignition; not used on your application, some applications use this post to bypass ballast resistor for a full 12v on start up, also used in some auto applications.

Dino Don
07-16-2013, 11:35 PM
Mine did the same thing and it turned out to be a bad ground connection where the ground cable bolted to the block--drop in voltage.

I also changed battery and relay and it didn't fix it until I fixed the ground connection.