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LakePirate
10-10-2005, 03:37 PM
Riddle me this, why are no slalom handles made of carbon? It appears that all of the high end wake board handles are carbon and all of the pro riders use them, however, when you see the pro slalom guys they have aluminum. What gives?

88 PS190
10-18-2005, 04:48 PM
Perhaps GIVE gives. Carbon is light, but also stiff and relatively brittle. They use low stretch lines with them as well, For a slalom skier the aluminum handle and medium stretch to the line absorb impact, and prevent anything from breaking. Besides look at the size of a slalom handle vs. the wakeboard handle, narrower, smaller, w/ line directly from the handle, where's the advantage to carbon?

jmyers
10-18-2005, 05:10 PM
Perhaps GIVE gives. Carbon is light, but also stiff and relatively brittle. They use low stretch lines with them as well, For a slalom skier the aluminum handle and medium stretch to the line absorb impact, and prevent anything from breaking. Besides look at the size of a slalom handle vs. the wakeboard handle, narrower, smaller, w/ line directly from the handle, where's the advantage to carbon?
Isn't it like those shoe string ropes for wakeboarding not working for skiing, I herd they would brake because of the torque from skiing. Mabey the carbon can't handle the torque from skiing either! :confused:

88 PS190
10-18-2005, 05:14 PM
for anyone who has ever tried riding a wake line on a ski, the impule of slackened rope is amazing, same F tons less time, its a hit.

AirJunky
10-18-2005, 05:30 PM
Seen one break? It's not uncommon & the stuff explodes into a billion pieces.

SKI*MC
10-18-2005, 05:37 PM
i ahev seen a wakeboard bend a hanlde in half. He came off a slider and slide out but didnt let go, but the drag of his body was to mush and the handle bent into a 90 degree angle.

AirJunky
10-18-2005, 05:48 PM
Yea, I've seen the steel bar ripped or broken out of the rope a few times. Usually it was a boarder or a foiler trying a heli & they ended up sticking their arm in the triangle instead of grabbing the handle on the handle pass. The damage to the arm is ugly to say the least. Bruised horribly, torn bicep, etc.

But the carbon fiber handles blow into billions of pieces & the shards of glass are stuck in your skin, gloves & suit forever.

88 PS190
10-18-2005, 06:15 PM
So its agreed then, aluminum bars are the way to go for slalom. Although a nice titanium would be sweet.

Ric
10-18-2005, 06:17 PM
maybe what gives is that Slalom guys are just too strong for some carbon handle :firejump:

SKI*MC
10-18-2005, 07:04 PM
i think it would take a lot more to break a carbon fiber handle...

88 PS190
10-18-2005, 11:26 PM
suppose if anyone wants to sacrifice one measure the load it requires to snap the handle. would be fun to hear the results of.

SKI*MC
10-18-2005, 11:27 PM
i'll do it it someone else has the money!

erkoehler
10-18-2005, 11:31 PM
I have a carbon handle wakeboard handle w/ the no stretch line, and we have used it for slalom on one occassion. We forgot the slalom line in the other boat, and all we had was barefoot and wakeboard lines. My buddy cleared the course at 34 mph at 15 off w/ the wakeboard line.

Ric
10-19-2005, 10:06 AM
I have a carbon handle wakeboard handle w/ the no stretch line, and we have used it for slalom on one occassion. We forgot the slalom line in the other boat, and all we had was barefoot and wakeboard lines. My buddy cleared the course at 34 mph at 15 off w/ the wakeboard line.
that's pretty cool erk but how did you guys get 15off on a wakeboard line? tie a knot in it?

mitch
10-19-2005, 01:33 PM
I thought carbon handles were designed to help WB's w/ a handle pass (i.e, 360's etc)

Foiler
10-19-2005, 01:38 PM
I had a cabon handle, hit a kicker wake and over rotated a little on a gainer. I heard the handle hit the board, didn't sound like it hit that hard. As soon as I had line tension on the next pull SNAP! I was holding half a handle.

The good thing is that they're guaranteed for life, I took it back to a different place than where I bought it and they replaced it no questions ask. I sold that one on ebay, I knew i'd just break it again...I like Straightlines featherweight handles better for a lot less $$$.

.

AirJunky
10-19-2005, 01:48 PM
that's pretty cool erk but how did you guys get 15off on a wakeboard line? tie a knot in it?
Wakeboard ropes have tie off loops too. Mainly to allow the rider to adjust where he wants to be hitting the wake.

Ric
10-20-2005, 02:20 PM
Wakeboard ropes have tie off loops too. Mainly to allow the rider to adjust where he wants to be hitting the wake.
cool, so there's a 60ft section tie off on a wakeboard rope?

Hoff1
10-20-2005, 02:27 PM
My wake line has 55, 60 & 65 I believe.

LakePirate
10-20-2005, 02:29 PM
No doubt that the rope attached to the carbon handle is not ideal for slalom, however, with a normal slalom rope why no fiber?

Now you guys talk about broken handles, I would venture to believe that the percentage of broken carbon handles would be the same, if not less, than broken aluminum handles.

Carbon is used because it is light weight, bicycles are becoming more and more carbon for this purpose. Now I know that it does not seem like a big difference, but if you were skiing all day would the reduction in weight of the handle reduce fatigue?

Cary K.
10-20-2005, 02:29 PM
cool, so there's a 60ft section tie off on a wakeboard rope?

Yes, and that is usually as short as they will go. There is a tie off at 60, 65, 70, & end of line at 75'.

AirJunky
10-20-2005, 02:38 PM
Now you guys talk about broken handles, I would venture to believe that the percentage of broken carbon handles would be the same, if not less, than broken aluminum handles.
Granted...... guess it just depends on if you want bruises on your arm or splinters in it.

So your saying that your becoming fatigued by holding up an aluminum handle? Seems odd with all the other stresses going on while skiing. I've never once been out there & said, hmmmm, this handle is sure heavy. And I'm one of those guys doing handle tricks too; Floater, Undertaker, always wanted to do an Osmosis 3.

LakePirate
10-20-2005, 02:52 PM
I am not saying that I am becoming fatigued by using aluminum instead of carbon. What I am trying to get at is what if any advantage is there with carbon? and why is it being used for wakeboarding not slalom? Splintering of the handle would be an issue in either sport. Is the slalom crowd just not catching on, or do they want to catch on, but there is not a product for them? Are the manufacturers ignoring the slalom crowd?

AirJunky
10-20-2005, 03:35 PM
Probably a combination of those reasons, Pirate. The slalom crowd is getting smaller so the manufacturers don't come out with a lot of new gear directed to them. Plus the slalom crowd tends to be very old school (take a look around this group) & maybe even resistant to new things.
Splintering doesn't happen with metal/plastic handles. The aftermath when a CF part breaks is ugly, no matter what sport your in. I know one guy who was fishin CF splinters from his arm & leg for a week.
As for the benefit, weight. And it's new. But I'm not sure those positives outweight the negatives. But then again, I'm riding the heaviest (and strongest) ski made too.

Ric
10-20-2005, 04:57 PM
You boarders stay off my lawn!! :rant:
Probably a combination of those reasons, Pirate. The slalom crowd is getting smaller so the manufacturers don't come out with a lot of new gear directed to them. Plus the slalom crowd tends to be very old school (take a look around this group) & maybe even resistant to new things.

AirJunky
10-20-2005, 05:06 PM
You boarders stay off my lawn!! :rant:
HEhehey, I gave it up years ago! :vomit:

Ric
10-20-2005, 06:06 PM
HEhehey, I gave it up years ago! :vomit:
whippersnapper foilers :rant:
Oh I forgot "that's the way it was and we liked it!"

ecelis
10-30-2005, 09:22 AM
Stick with the cheaper, non-carbon handles.
We spend more than $100 on just a handle and after two months of use the handle was filling with water. So what use is your featherweight handle if it fills with a pound of water ? We noticed hairline cracks around where the rope goes through the handle.
Plus the grip covering is coming loose and twisting, causing a not-so-firm grip.

6ballsisall
10-30-2005, 09:59 AM
I'll pass on the carbon handle. I've seen a carbon fiber fly rod splinter into a guys arm before. It wasn't real pretty and a long drive to the emergency room. I like carbon fiber but it isn't as strong as many think. Aluminum does great for me. I did get to try one of those curved handles this year and do believe that will be on the end of my rope next season

erkoehler
10-30-2005, 10:30 AM
that's pretty cool erk but how did you guys get 15off on a wakeboard line? tie a knot in it?


It has the takeoffs in the line, but they don't go as far down as a slalom line.

Brent
10-31-2005, 05:03 PM
A lot of Pro hockey players use carbon sticks ! I see them breaking far more often then wood sticks used too! My fear with a carbon handle is it giving out just behind the boat @ max load , now that would be ugly! Another thing is a Carbon handle ding on my carbon ski could do more damage then my regular handle! :eek:

SkiDog
03-08-2010, 01:10 PM
Time to revisit this thread. The foilers out there have invented a safety handle that will prevent anyones arm from becoming mincemeat by getting it caught in the handle on a fall. Here's a thread from the foiling site and a pic of what's to come.
http://www.foilforum.com/forums/showthread.php?3150-New-Safe-Handle&highlight=carbon+fiber+handles

Sodar
03-08-2010, 01:57 PM
It already exists. Mike Murphy was showing them at the LA Boat Show.

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=97815&stc=1&d=1268065827

They double as a thong, too.

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=97816&stc=1&d=1268065827

SkiDog
03-08-2010, 01:59 PM
I knew they were trying to get the prototypes done in time for that show. Did you get to see them Cameron?

Sodar
03-08-2010, 02:04 PM
I knew they were trying to get the prototypes done in time for that show. Did you get to see them Cameron?

Yep. Checked them out and talked to Mike about them. They looks sweet, but are a bit $$$$. Very high quality, though (as everything Mr. Murphy does)

SkiDog
03-08-2010, 02:10 PM
Yep. Checked them out and talked to Mike about them. They looks sweet, but are a bit $$$$. Very high quality, though (as everything Mr. Murphy does)

A bit pricey, like what? $100, $200? Also, aren't they making a less expensive model too? Aluminum I believe?

Sodar
03-08-2010, 02:13 PM
A bit pricey, like what? $100, $200? Also, aren't they making a less expensive model too? Aluminum I believe?

I only saw the carbon model. I think they were a little under $200, but I seriously do not remember exactly. I talked to him more about where we both ski and stuff.

SkiDog
03-08-2010, 02:33 PM
I only saw the carbon model. I think they were a little under $200, but I seriously do not remember exactly. I talked to him more about where we both ski and stuff.

I guess the price is worth it if it saves your arm, huh?

TMCNo1
03-08-2010, 03:36 PM
I guess the price is worth it if it saves your arm, huh?

At least you won't miss a stroke if you still have both hands, right?:rolleyes:

Jerseydave
03-08-2010, 03:56 PM
Time to revisit this thread. The foilers out there have invented a safety handle that will prevent anyones arm from becoming mincemeat by getting it caught in the handle on a fall. Here's a thread from the foiling site and a pic of what's to come.
http://www.foilforum.com/forums/showthread.php?3150-New-Safe-Handle&highlight=carbon+fiber+handles

Yea, I saw that on the foil forum too. I believe they are going to offer it in aluminum too for around $100?

slickwater1
03-23-2010, 10:46 AM
I found some carbon handles cheap and was considering buying one to have. But yall got me scared.

tex
03-23-2010, 11:27 AM
I got a good deal on a carbon handle last year. the rope pulled out of the connection the first 2 times I used it. I was just doing a sliding dock start on my shoes. I had and old eagle scout re-tie it and no problems since. I love the feel of it. It has the curved ends on it so you can really spread your hands out with no issues. I have heard people complain because they chip if you throw them around. I will let you know later because I'm pretty hard on my stuff....and I am one of the guys who has put his hand through the handle....I tell my wife that yes I do know the pain of child birth!

slickwater1
03-23-2010, 11:35 AM
tex do you slalom. I am new to the slalom world but have boarded for years. we used carbon and loved it. I found a very nice slalom handle, cheap. www.coleman.com look at the clearance items. Was going to purchase one if I thought it would hold up.

tex
03-23-2010, 11:47 AM
Only ride the one stick for step-offs and jump outs....I used to one ski jump before the knee!

slickwater1
03-23-2010, 11:52 AM
do you think the carbon handle will hold up to the course. and man aint no ski worse on knee than one ski.

Marky-mark
03-24-2010, 01:12 PM
I have an 18 stone mate who carries muscle and regularly tries to stop my X2 getting on the plane for the fun of it (and fails). My 17 inch carbon handle is now 2 seasons old and totally unmarked and perfect. I would recommend them to anyone. And a long handle must be much more likely to break than a skiers.

tex
03-24-2010, 04:52 PM
I have an 18 stone mate who carries muscle and regularly tries to stop my X2 getting on the plane for the fun of it (and fails). My 17 inch carbon handle is now 2 seasons old and totally unmarked and perfect. I would recommend them to anyone. And a long handle must be much more likely to break than a skiers.

If your mate has 18 stones, shouldn't he see a doctor?

vision
03-24-2010, 04:53 PM
I do get tired of our one carbon handle smacking the back or side of the boat when some one reels it in, sending a chill down my spine. All of our aluminum handles have vinyl on the ends.

Marky-mark
03-24-2010, 05:21 PM
If your mate has 18 stones, shouldn't he see a doctor?

He did - just said he was a fat b*****d!