PDA

View Full Version : Engine swap underway - questions


XavierSPL
07-12-2013, 10:02 PM
So the new short block is in and I'll be trying to get everything back together this weekend. Assembling engine components is all new territory for me so have a couple questions and want to make sure I'm prepared etc..

As far as assembling the top end; I have the new lifters soaking in an oil bath now, and will be drilling out the GT40 heads in the AM. Aside from using assembly lube on everything as it goes together and torqueing down to specs, are there any general recommendations that might not be obvious?

Are there any good step by steps out there for setting valve lash? All new to me but picked up a feeler gauge.

I have a pertronix flame thrower distributor and coil ready to go but have no clue how to time. I can google enough but is there anything I could do incorrectly along the way that might screw things up at that point?

So excited at the idea that I might actually have her done this weekend, just waiting to see what I've forgotten or can't figure out.. Already got stumped at the wiring changes with the new Arco starter but after reading a couple threads w/pics I'll take another stab at it tomorrow.. Thanks!

XavierSPL
07-13-2013, 11:55 AM
Strike one....

I'm visually looking at cylinder #1 and the piston appears to be as high as it will go - if this is a freshly remanufactured short block, could I safely assume it's close enough to TDC enough to start bolting on my pulleys or should I be prepared to have to rotate the crankshaft in order to time the engine with the new distributor??

mikeg205
07-13-2013, 01:05 PM
we need pictures... :)

pbgbottle
07-13-2013, 01:43 PM
Bolt all the stuff on and get going ,no biggie if it is TDC or not until it comes time to put the dizzy in and adjust the valves. Rotating the assembly until the Timing marks are on zero degrees will be TDC. But you also have to make sure you are on the firing stroke. You can tell this by looking at the rockers on piston #1. And make sure they are not moving , u will get it.

johnnye23
07-14-2013, 06:34 AM
I used this link to help in my 351W distributor replacement this week ,pretty detailed instructions.
http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168214

XavierSPL
07-14-2013, 09:57 AM
Here's some pics of yesterday's progress:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/engine4.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/engine4.jpg.html)
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/engine3.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/engine3.jpg.html)
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/engine1.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/engine1.jpg.html)
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/engine2.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/engine2.jpg.html)

Today I have to figure out the timing, and setting valve lash, thanks for the link Johnny, i'll check that out now..

pbgbottle
07-14-2013, 10:40 AM
Also with a marine engine all u need to do is rotate the engine to like 10 degrees on the timing mark drop the dizzy in anywhere it will seat fully in block , Stick the rotor on rotate the dizzy slightly to where the rotor is lined up with a spark plug wire on the cap for lack of better words. And make that one the number one plug and route the wires accordingly off of the number one on the cap. It doesn't mater how u drop the dizzy in there is no vacumme advance canister on these distributors so it doesn't really matter what post u pick to be number one. Set close fire it up and dial it in with the timing light
Nice work keep it up.

mikeg205
07-14-2013, 10:58 AM
Love these engine pics... looks great - keep the progress pics coming... :)

XavierSPL
07-14-2013, 11:59 AM
Stuffed a wadded up paper towel into cyl #1 and turned until it popped then lined up 0* TDC on the balancer, hopefully that'll do..
Gonna start the rest of the wiring now and we'll see how it goes from there.. Updates to follow!! Thanks for the tips guys

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-14-2013, 03:33 PM
Also with a marine engine all u need to do is rotate the engine to like 10 degrees on the timing mark drop the dizzy in anywhere it will seat fully in block , Stick the rotor on rotate the dizzy slightly to where the rotor is lined up with a spark plug wire on the cap for lack of better words. And make that one the number one plug and route the wires accordingly off of the number one on the cap. It doesn't mater how u drop the dizzy in there is no vacumme advance canister on these distributors so it doesn't really matter what post u pick to be number one. Set close fire it up and dial it in with the timing light
Nice work keep it up.

while theoretically you can set #1 anywhere on our marine distributors, doing what you suggested can cause issues like spark plug wires being wrong length, looking at references could cause confusion etc. I would suggest setting #1 at the factory position to prevent future frustration. :twocents:

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-14-2013, 03:41 PM
Here's some pics of yesterday's progress:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/engine4.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/engine4.jpg.html)
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/engine3.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/engine3.jpg.html)
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/engine1.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/engine1.jpg.html)
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/engine2.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/engine2.jpg.html)

Today I have to figure out the timing, and setting valve lash, thanks for the link Johnny, i'll check that out now..

Which intake did you go with? performer or performer rpm. I ask because with the carburetor spacer on the intake it all looks pretty tall your doghouse might not close all the way. Just an observation.

blackcreek
07-14-2013, 06:41 PM
Stuffed a wadded up paper towel into cyl #1 and turned until it popped then lined up 0* TDC on the balancer, hopefully that'll do..
The engine needs to be TDC on the compression stroke so I assume when you said the towel popped it was blown out by the compression. You can turn the motor over until you see the #1 valves actuate then rotate the crankshaft another rotation until the 0 degree mark lines up and you will be TDC on the compression stroke.

XavierSPL
07-14-2013, 10:13 PM
So after a long weekend of wrenching here's where she stands:

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/IMG_20130714_203022_708.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/IMG_20130714_203022_708.jpg.html)

Engine's all together for the most part but did run into a couple small snags along the way..
I couldn't figure out where the starter relay was bolted to the block and realized it was using the tab mount as a ground so I have that temporarily pinched under a bolt head on the backside of the head.
She would only sputter and fire randomly with a bit of starting fluid or gas straight down the carb, I started off by pulling the fuel line right off the pump, bypassing the separator and 10' of hose and after more than enough time turning her over, I checked the fuel pump and couldn't feel any suction while turning the engine..
I also haven't found a great place to mount the coil yet, think I'll move it down the side of the carb on the intake..
At any rate, I'm wiped out after this weekend and think I've had my fill of wrenching for this summer so I'm planning on dropping her back off to the local marine shop and seeing if they can sort the rest out for me before this next weekend..

toolz
07-15-2013, 10:23 AM
You mentioned valve lash- you don't have adjustable rockers, so I hope you figured that out and torqued down the rocker bolts. It will run real bad and come apart if you didn't.

MikeyOrange88
07-15-2013, 02:50 PM
My stock coil and bracket, which look just like yours (far as I can tell from photo) is mounted to the front end of the port cylinder head in the existing tapped hole, in front of the number 5 cyl. From the photo, it appears that the bent metal fuel line would allow it to mount there. The ballast resistor is also mounted there. Nice looking rebuild so far.

XavierSPL
07-15-2013, 08:51 PM
You mentioned valve lash- you don't have adjustable rockers, so I hope you figured that out and torqued down the rocker bolts. It will run real bad and come apart if you didn't.

I did thanks - like 6 people told me to make sure I adjust the valve lash and I thought it was just my ignorance when I couldn't anyway to adjust.. all torqued down now..

I managed to find a new home for the coil on the intake right next to the carb, fit perfect there..
Well the works all done for me now, unfortunately she's not running yet. Wasn't getting any gas up to the carb so I disconnected the inlet and hooked up a 2' hose straight into a gas can and it wouldn't pull a drop out of it.. removed the pump and pulled it apart, all looked fine with the diaphragm (no rips or tears anyway)... It's been sitting dry as a bone for about 5yrs now so I'm sure that didn't help.. Either way I ordered a new one up from Skidim.. Once it's here in a couple days I'll be taking it back to the marine shop for a look-over of my work and the final timing..

gr82bgreen
07-16-2013, 03:42 PM
I did thanks - like 6 people told me to make sure I adjust the valve lash and I thought it was just my ignorance when I couldn't anyway to adjust.. all torqued down now..

I managed to find a new home for the coil on the intake right next to the carb, fit perfect there..
Well the works all done for me now, unfortunately she's not running yet. Wasn't getting any gas up to the carb so I disconnected the inlet and hooked up a 2' hose straight into a gas can and it wouldn't pull a drop out of it.. removed the pump and pulled it apart, all looked fine with the diaphragm (no rips or tears anyway)... It's been sitting dry as a bone for about 5yrs now so I'm sure that didn't help.. Either way I ordered a new one up from Skidim.. Once it's here in a couple days I'll be taking it back to the marine shop for a look-over of my work and the final timing..

Did you install the fuel pump eccentric on the camshaft gear to run the fuel pump?

XavierSPL
07-16-2013, 06:18 PM
Did you install the fuel pump eccentric on the camshaft gear to run the fuel pump?

Ugh... I assumed that liked chevys, these just ran off the camshaft lobe - just called the company I got the short block from and they said they do NOT mount one, I'm assuming the local marine shop I paid to swap the blocks never swapped it... :mad: They actually installed the timing cover for me too so they should've caught this if it's not on there..

So, I can either get the part (likely have to order as the core is scrapped now) and take everything off to install, or just switch to electric... Any thoughts on this option???

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-16-2013, 08:01 PM
Installing an inline electric fuel pump with a fuel pressure regulator and a fuel pump safety switch is a viable option. Early 240 SC with the carburetor 454 were setup this way. But honestly it would take like an hour or 2 to remove the timing cover and install the eccentric and put it back together, buying all the parts and time would way exceed 2 hours and a $40 eccentric. Did they reuse they original timing gear/ chain set? If so this is what you need as a 2 piece eccentric is original equipment.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-235

gr82bgreen
07-16-2013, 10:12 PM
Installing an inline electric fuel pump with a fuel pressure regulator and a fuel pump safety switch is a viable option. Early 240 SC with the carburetor 454 were setup this way. But honestly it would take like an hour or 2 to remove the timing cover and install the eccentric and put it back together, buying all the parts and time would way exceed 2 hours and a $40 eccentric. Did they reuse they original timing gear/ chain set? If so this is what you need as a 2 piece eccentric is original equipment.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-235

X2
Much cheaper and less trouble with the mechanical pump. With all the bolts not bieng rusted or seized it should be an easy job. Just sucks the engine builder should have done it in the first place.

XavierSPL
07-16-2013, 11:04 PM
Did they reuse they original timing gear/ chain set? If so this is what you need as a 2 piece eccentric is original equipment.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-235

The timing gear set was new and came with the short block. The shop I had swap the block out installed the original timing cover onto the new block..

X2
Much cheaper and less trouble with the mechanical pump. With all the bolts not bieng rusted or seized it should be an easy job. Just sucks the engine builder should have done it in the first place.

I'm fuming about it all at this point.. Worst thing is I called the guy at the shop yesterday to let him know that the mechanical fuel pump was dead and a new one was on the way to let him know I'd be dropping it off to him after for the final timing, etc.. I would think they would've realized at that point that they may have skipped that step..
I'll be calling them first thing in the am, hopefully they still have the old block at their shop, otherwise I'll have to order one up.. I'll be pretty peeved if I miss another weekend at this point..

johnnye23
07-17-2013, 07:23 AM
Man feeling your pain. I just had to remove the front of the engine on my 351w to retrieve the oil pump shaft when it fell out removing the distributor :mad:

Heres a picture of the eccentric you are missing . It cost me $18 for the gasket kit and about three hours in time to do the job. I think if I were in your shoes I would install an electric
fuel pump. If you run a seperate switch for the pump it will also be a theft deterrent .
http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0016/88/95/16268859_large.jpg?v=1

XavierSPL
07-17-2013, 10:51 AM
Dropped the boat off this morning to the shop.. The owner wasn't there to discuss but the mechanic who worked on it was.. Told him about the fuel pump issue I was having and gave him an opportunity to realize the issue, when he didn't I asked him if he swapped the cam eccentric to which he replied "the what?" when he told me they still have the old block they removed I offered to show him and walked over and of course, there it was.. So hopefully no more snags along the way, they'll be moving the eccentric and then doing the final timing.. With any luck nothing else will go wrong and I'll be in the water by Saturday..

gr82bgreen
07-17-2013, 11:27 AM
Dropped the boat off this morning to the shop.. The owner wasn't there to discuss but the mechanic who worked on it was.. Told him about the fuel pump issue I was having and gave him an opportunity to realize the issue, when he didn't I asked him if he swapped the cam eccentric to which he replied "the what?" when he told me they still have the old block they removed I offered to show him and walked over and of course, there it was.. So hopefully no more snags along the way, they'll be moving the eccentric and then doing the final timing.. With any luck nothing else will go wrong and I'll be in the water by Saturday..

Must be a young guy who hasnt worked on many older carb engines. Its good that they will take care of it for you though.