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View Full Version : advice on double boot falls out the front?


Kevin 89MC
10-06-2005, 04:27 PM
I've been thinking about getting a double boot for my slalom ski-1997 KD 7000 (or maybe a new ski with DB), and just wondering if any of you have had bad experiences with out-the-front crashes in a DB. When I fall, it is usually on my off side at the first wake (I know, lean back and stay on edge) and I always get launched out of my ski (fitted front boot and rtp). I worry that a OTF crash with a DB will screw up by back, knees or legs. I assume the ski and I will stop suddenly, unlike now when the ski stops, but I keep going! :eek3: I somehow feel safer leaving the ski, than if I were to stay in it. Or do you get launched out of both bindings? I'm running the course more, and getting into 22 off, so I predict I'll fall a fair amount crossing the rooster tail next spring.
TIA,
Kevin

east tx skier
10-06-2005, 04:35 PM
I've been skiing with double boots (soft, not hardshells) and almost always come out of my ski in an OTF fall. Currently on HO animals.

I heard a rumor that KD is not going to be offered in the US anymore. So if you want KD boots, you might want to move on that one or at least check it out. Apart from that, there's always Wileys.

jraben8
10-06-2005, 04:46 PM
I've skied with double boots for most of my skiing life. The falls have never hurt due to the boots. I don't feel nearly as secure with a rtp to the point that it makes me a little nervous with my back heel moving around but then again, it's all in what you are used to.

I had been in Connelly's until this past spring when I moved to D3's. Both have been excellent for me.

jimmer2880
10-06-2005, 04:55 PM
I've been using double boots all my slalom skiing life (~24 years) and never had a problem until this year. Last year, I bought a set of Connelly Pivot's that are a little bit small for me. This year, I sprained my front ankle 3x coming out of the front.

moral of the story - don't get them extremely (like 4 sizes too small) too tight. I always thought you couldn't go tight enough. I found where that point is. Going back to the next size larger boot for next season. Besides - the Connelly boots are cracking already.

3event
10-06-2005, 04:57 PM
In 1987 I had a season-ending injury on a Jobe with front boot + RTP. Typical break at waist across wake wipeout, tip dug, boot did not release, ski rotated without me. Result = 3 stress fractures of ankle. :(

Since 1988 I have used double boots. Almost always during a wipeout you end up with both in or both out. If you lose both, you just had a good one. If you land with both in, the ski can not rotate. I feel safer, and 17 years without any ankle / etc injuries is a good record. Plus I love the control.......

Leroy
10-06-2005, 05:02 PM
Saw my ski buddy do two forward flips earlier this year and stayed in the bindings, CDX and double animals!

He did gash his nose last year, but would probably have happened with double or RTP.

Ric
10-06-2005, 05:29 PM
double HO venoms here and too many nasty otf's to think of!!! None of which have caused any ankle or knee injuries

I run my boots loose and i do come out of them in an otf fall

I have hit my knee on the tip of the ski on my way out a couple of times but I dont think that's due to the bindings

now I have read some nasty stories about compression/otf crashes in fogman hardshells but always heard great stuff about those fluid motion hardshells.(never skiid either, just heard things)

east tx skier
10-06-2005, 05:48 PM
I should mention that I don't cinch the boots up much. In a OTF fall, I've usually got my hands behind my head in case the ski is headed my way.

Crash
10-06-2005, 06:15 PM
That's my ski, but different year. I've never been hit with the ski with double boots and I crash all the time. In fact my set always ends with a crash rather than 'letting go'. My are so tight they're hard to get on without soap.

There was an earlier thread debating RTP or double boot, which I thought was interesting with pros and cons.

Regarding new ski or just new boot. Someone once told me, "find a ski you like and learn to ski it, the rest is form."

Kevin 89MC
10-06-2005, 06:16 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys! I've seen the lace-up bindings, and again wondered if you get launched out if you bury the tip. Sounds like "yes". I think I'll stay away from the hard shells for now. I don't want to think of the outcome if you bury the tip and stay with the ski! :uglyhamme
I was on DB once a long time ago, and really loved it. Just had a really hard time getting up. I've read a few threads on that, so I am going to start practicing getting up with my back foot in the rtp to get the hang of it. Might get the chance to get on a Goode and Sixam (both with DB) this fall. Might end up asking santa for a whole new package! :banana:
Kevin

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-06-2005, 06:37 PM
Well, until this year I always used a RTP. this year I started skiing more aggresively and had some good wipeouts. I dont like the idea of a ski coming off and hitting me as it did 3 times this year with a RTP. when I switched to double boots I havent had the ski come off. I do feel safer in double boots. Now I know its not possible to be 100% safe in EVERY situation that COULD happen, but I like the "safety" of double boots now that I use them. I am using Animals. I have 10 1/2 feet and I have size L animals. I cinch them tight, but not so they are hurting or anything. Just good and snug. I like the feel, I havent had them come off. the idea of haveing one foot out and one in scares the hell out of me too for fear of twisted ankles, knees, etc.... I may be wrong on this, but its how I percieve it. to me double boots are safer. :twocents:

UMP

BrianM
10-06-2005, 06:43 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys! I've seen the lace-up bindings, and again wondered if you get launched out if you bury the tip. Sounds like "yes". I think I'll stay away from the hard shells for now. I don't want to think of the outcome if you bury the tip and stay with the ski! :uglyhamme


I have skied with double boots for a long time and have never had a problem with an OTF. Like said above you are usually in or out.

I just switched over to hard shells (Fluid Motions) and just last week had my first OTF with them. I realeased seamlessly. The release was less noticable than before with my Wileys. It seems that many people are worried about a pre-release with hard shells. When they are set up properly they will not realease at inappropriate times and keep you safe (complete release) when needed. I did a lot of research and feel that a good hardshell system that is set up properly is much safer than a rubber double boot or rtp setup.

Kevin 89MC
10-06-2005, 06:53 PM
Interesting, Brian and UMP. I have wondered what will happen if my back foot slides out and the front stays in. I cringe at the thought. I have been curious about some hard shells. I'll have to start demo-ing some skis & binding next spring.
Thanks again,
Kevin

M-Funf
10-06-2005, 07:42 PM
I currently ski an HO with DB's (soft). I have not had many OTF's, but fallen once or twice in my 37 years of skiing ;)

The LAST thing I want is for one foot to come out, and one to stay in, so I went to the DB to prevent coming out of either boot, or come out of both!

My boots are a bit snug, and I usually need soap to get into them, but once in, I'm pretty secure.

If I come out of the ski, usually both feet come out. There has been the rare occasion where one has come out, but so far it hasn't been a problem (*knocks on wood*).

scott88prostar
10-06-2005, 08:00 PM
I broke my leg last wednesday ....double animals on a cdx...bottom line is in this sport there is always the potential for an injury...I always liked the double boot....more secure ride.

André
10-06-2005, 08:02 PM
I broke my leg last wednesday ....double animals on a cdx...bottom line is in this sport there is always the potential for an injury...I always liked the double boot....more secure ride.
Sorry to read that Scott!
Did it happenned skiing ?

BeavenX5
10-06-2005, 08:04 PM
I got a new pair of Obrien Bios this year (double front lace up and soft shell). I got quite a few OTF falls in the beginnig of the year getting used to the new ski and new boat wave. Some of them were quite big.
Only once did both my feet got out. All the other falls, both my feet stayed in. Never got hurt. I feel safe with these bindings as my knees or ankles wont twist in a fall.
I wear 10 1/2 shoes and had to change them to size XXL bindings. These bindings are made very small and my initial XL were too unconfortable.

scott88prostar
10-06-2005, 08:12 PM
Thanks Andre

I was wide and late at the pullout....so when I went for the gates I had too much speed and hit the wake and exploded.......landed by the one ball....superman!....when I looked back the ski was between the gates,,,,and I was afraid it was going to hit me in the head...I had no idea how far I flew.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-06-2005, 10:28 PM
Wow, bummer scott :( hope it heals fast! YOu will be already to go next season

so your leg broke when it came out of your ski??? :confused: or what?

UMP

scott88prostar
10-07-2005, 10:32 AM
Thanks!.... it broke right at the top of the front boot.....Im left foot forward so it broke the small bone on the lower left leg...they say six weeks...I hope to ski in november....I previously had connelly super high wraps and the neoprene did release easier I think...never really thought about it till I saw this post yesterday.

jimmer2880
10-07-2005, 11:07 AM
Wow... that really stinks. Stay off of it & take it easy so you can get that Nov ski ride in.

andjules
11-17-2005, 03:23 PM
a late addition:
I tend to fall forward coming out of the turn (so it's a gentle fall, not an acceleration-phase 'crash') and have done so uneventfully many times over many years in many different double highwraps. And then, last month, during one of these falls - nothing particularly special about it - I snapped my achilles tendon on my front (left) foot - the binding just released a little too slow. 2 months in a cast w/ crutches + 1 month in a walking boot... and then the physiotherapy starts. I'll be lucky if the doc lets me ski by July 06.

I'd still recommend double highwraps - you want to diminish the chances of a high speed crash where only one leg is fixed to the ski...
but I never liked my last set of bindings (KD Pro Comps, pre-laces, rigid heel cup) & so I guess it's time for some new ones. Will be asking for others' advice in a separate thread.

good luck healing.

88 PS190
11-17-2005, 04:45 PM
Just remember, the back should never ever ever ever be tighter than the front.

ski_500
11-19-2005, 04:27 PM
Kev,

I switched from RTP to double high wraps two years ago. I was initially concerned about re-learning the start, but I made the transition in short order. Since then when I go OTF, more often than not I stay in the ski. No problems so far.

Good luck, let us know how well you like the difference.

88 PS190
11-19-2005, 10:31 PM
bummer on the leg break. mine was years ago now, right foot stayed in a soft neoprene boot, but i spun when i hit the water, and spiraled my femur. Took me 8 months before they let me go partial weight bearing, and missed the next summer when they took the rods out. since i've paid alot more attention to how the boots are tightened, overall, and relative to each other.

oh and that was not w/ dbl. boots, falls have hurt alot less since, possibly due to having more control over my edge, and not loosing it.