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View Full Version : !Help!15 hrs on new 351 and loosing Excessive oil


svxwilson
05-28-2013, 10:04 PM
I have just recently purchased my boat. It came with a brand new 351 Windsor. I checked the compression and had it professionally checked out at a shop before I bought it. I took it out the first few times ran great and didn't use any oil. I ran it for a full day for the first time on Monday and was blowing through oil like crazy.
Nothing changed performance wise, still ran great. Has good oil pressure when it has the correct amount of oil.
I also noticed some darker colored water in the lake water cooling the engine when I drained it at the end of the day.
Being such a new engine do you think I need to Re-torque some bolts on the engine now that I have a oil change and about 2, 4 hour trips and one 7 hour trip to the lake. Totaling 15 hrs on the new engine?
I love the boat. Slalom skiing behind it is a dream. Never been pulled out of the water as fast and as easily as this boat can.
Thank you in advance on the advice and help!

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-28-2013, 10:11 PM
Did you visually check the engine for oil leak residue, or was it blowing oil out the exhaust. I would imagine if its consuming or leaking large amounts of oil it should be easily detected. Engine component bolts should not need to be retightened if installed correctly the first time.

88 PS190
05-28-2013, 10:22 PM
As said once torqued these engines aren't the type that need frequent retorquing - it isn't a BMW motorcycle....

Routes for oil to get into the cooling water would primarily be head gasket - in a car you'd see oily residues in the antifreeze - since it is a boat you probably don't have a closed loop, although some do.

Recheck compression that should verify if the rings are blowing by, and a head gasket issue would show on a leak down compression test.

Please define "blowing through oil like crazy" quart an hour? quart a day?

svxwilson
05-28-2013, 10:25 PM
Engine is flawlessly clean no visible oil leaks. I never noticed a oil patch behind me but then again I wasn't watching for it at the time. When I opened the water release valves on the engine after I pulled it out I thought I noticed a color in the water that came from the 5 water release valves for winterizing it. ( I winterize the boat after every use because it can still freeze any night randomly throughout the year in montana) I Do not recollect seeing the darker water after of either of the last 2 trips out with this boat. It had a semi clear dark look to a small portion of what came out when I opened the valves.

svxwilson
05-28-2013, 10:27 PM
As said once torqued these engines aren't the type that need frequent retorquing - it isn't a BMW motorcycle....

Routes for oil to get into the cooling water would primarily be head gasket - in a car you'd see oily residues in the antifreeze - since it is a boat you probably don't have a closed loop, although some do.

Recheck compression that should verify if the rings are blowing by, and a head gasket issue would show on a leak down compression test.

Please define "blowing through oil like crazy" quart an hour? quart a day?

It used 4-5 quarts through 7-8 hrs 5 of which were slalom skiing or slalom skiing speeds.

mikeg205
05-28-2013, 10:28 PM
that's a lot of oil...

svxwilson
05-28-2013, 10:32 PM
As said once torqued these engines aren't the type that need frequent retorquing - it isn't a BMW motorcycle....

Routes for oil to get into the cooling water would primarily be head gasket - in a car you'd see oily residues in the antifreeze - since it is a boat you probably don't have a closed loop, although some do.

Recheck compression that should verify if the rings are blowing by, and a head gasket issue would show on a leak down compression test.

Please define "blowing through oil like crazy" quart an hour? quart a day?

The previous owners best friend ( the mechanic who built it) went along on the preliminary trip to the lake. He had mentioned that if i buy the boat that I would need to tighten the head gasket bolts after some use because he recommended doing that after it was broken in. It is NOT a closed loop it uses lake water as coolant.

svxwilson
05-28-2013, 10:35 PM
Please excuse my ignorance. I know a little about engines pretty much just the basic stuff. But I am good at fixing things once I have identified the problem. Combustion mechanics is not my specialty.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-28-2013, 10:36 PM
It used 4-5 quarts through 7-8 hrs 5 of which were slalom skiing or slalom skiing speeds.

Is your exhaust hoses oily?

Oil is only in the water passages?

Was the boat smoking?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-28-2013, 10:39 PM
The previous owners best friend ( the mechanic who built it) went along on the preliminary trip to the lake. He had mentioned that if i buy the boat that I would need to tighten the head gasket bolts after some use because he recommended doing that after it was broken in. It is NOT a closed loop it uses lake water as coolant.

Is an idiot the head bolts do NOT need to be retorqued.

madcityskier
05-28-2013, 10:44 PM
When you say "new" engine...
What exactly do you mean. Long block, short block, rebuilt by buddy with no exact list of what was and wasn't done??? The idea of a "new" engine always scares me, because people use the words so loosely.

svxwilson
05-28-2013, 10:52 PM
Is your exhaust hoses oily?

Oil is only in the water passages?

Was the boat smoking?

Boat was beginning to get smoke from the exhaust not the engine bay. that's what lead me to check the oil, when I got her filled back up the smoke stopped and I noticed a small increase in performance, it wasn't really noticeable ( performance loss) until I refilled the oil and got full performance back.
I just went out and put my hands in the exhaust flaps on the back of the boat and it didn't feel extra greasy. Although I did not have much of a reference to how it felt before the excessive oil use.

svxwilson
05-28-2013, 10:59 PM
Sorry on being vague. It was a rebuild. The original engine had a cracked block so they got a used truck engine and rebuilt it. The used the correct marine cam. New marine carb new exhaust manifolds. I will get a longer list of what was done exactly. I have to return his trailer plate and pick up some loose ends like cheap skis and some extra vests he has that he threw in the deal.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-28-2013, 11:00 PM
Is there a pcv valve installed? If not that can cause excessive blowby of oil out the exhaust. If all components are installed correctly and working properly, I would perform a leakdown test, that checks piston rings, valves, combustion chamber leak etc., and a compression test.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-28-2013, 11:13 PM
Sorry on being vague. It was a rebuild. The original engine had a cracked block so they got a used truck engine and rebuilt it. The used the correct marine cam. New marine carb new exhaust manifolds. I will get a longer list of what was done exactly. I have to return his trailer plate and pick up some loose ends like cheap skis and some extra vests he has that he threw in the deal.

I once acquired a mustang that had a "rebuilt" small block engine it did what your explaining, ran great fora few hours then started using oil and smoking, turned out when they over hand honed the cylinder walls and had the improper piston ring gaps. I had to have the block bored, new pistons and new rings, ran great afterwards with no oil consumption.

Btw, iirc indmar marine says oil consumption of 1 qt of oil every 10 hrs is acceptable but not to exceed this.

My 351w that is in my mc uses 0 oil and has 370 hrs on original short block.

svxwilson
05-28-2013, 11:41 PM
How much did that run you for your stang? I fear that my desire for this type of boat the lack of availability in my region and my neglect of caution may have bit me in the "Richard" again. Well I had planned on selling my old project (1980 Porsche 930) when I bought this floating vessel. Looks like that may no longer be a option but a means to pay to fix the boat. You know anyone that wants a 500+HP Porsche....

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-28-2013, 11:51 PM
It's been a few years but as I remember, Machine shop was ~250 and pistons and rings were another ~450 plus another gasket kit and I installed everything myself.

Before you condemn the engine do the leakdown and compression tests they will give you loads of info if you do have an internal issue with this engine.

svxwilson
05-29-2013, 12:38 AM
Ok the list of what they did for the rebuild. New bearings, seals, gaskets, water pump, intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, valve stem seals, impeller, and thermostat.
Could a valve stem seal that came loose or popped out cause the problems I have been experiencing?

thatsmrmastercraft
05-29-2013, 01:01 AM
Ok the list of what they did for the rebuild. New bearings, seals, gaskets, water pump, intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, valve stem seals, impeller, and thermostat.
Could a valve stem seal that came loose or popped out cause the problems I have been experiencing?

If that were the case, you would find one really black spark plug.

svxwilson
05-29-2013, 11:08 AM
I really appreciate everyone's input. This is all very helpful.

broncotw
05-29-2013, 02:05 PM
I am no engine expert by any means.... I have owned several inboards and I have never had one boat lose any amount of oil.... If your boat is losing 4-5 quarts per 7-8 hours of use there is something really wrong! If I am understanding you correctly (assuming your 351 holds approximately 5-5.5 quarts) then your losing just about ALL of your oil in 7-8 hours of use? I would take it back to the mechanic who rebuilt it....

memphis23
05-29-2013, 02:33 PM
I agree with bronco take it back if you can. If you can't then my best guess is a blown head gasket first choice and next would be piston rings next, although both should have some smoke involved with these types of problems. It doesn't look like they did anything with the pistons and rings.

Rossterman
05-29-2013, 02:50 PM
Ok the list of what they did for the rebuild. New bearings, seals, gaskets, water pump, intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, valve stem seals, impeller, and thermostat.
Could a valve stem seal that came loose or popped out cause the problems I have been experiencing?

Don't see anything here about pistons, rings, bore/Hone? Did they not do these or did you inadvertently leave them off the list?

If your list is correct, I can't see why they skimped on this critical part of the rebuild. Heck, even if the piston clearance and bores were good, you always break the glaze and install new rings even if cutting corners. If they didn't do this, the rebuilder would be suspect in my mind and not sure what other corners were cut.

If rings were replaced, could also be broken oil ring or incorrectly installed oil rings. Maybe they forgot to break the glaze on the cylinder walls which will prevent the rings from seating. Normally though to burn that much oil, you have a good amount of smoke accompanying it...

As others have said- compression and leak down test are the first order of business to determine what is really going on.

Kyle
05-29-2013, 03:04 PM
The heads do not need to be torqued again and neither does the intake.


1. Replace the PCV valve with a NEW one and run the engine in your driveway on a hose. Watch the exhaust and verify any oil slick that appears on your driveway. Bring up the rpm over idle and run it for a few seconds at a time and see if you get consumption.

2. Do a compression check. Verify that all plugs look the same or if you have a bad plug or oily plug.

3. The rings and cylinder walls seem to have the factory bore. You do Not have a NEW engine you have one that is Half Ars. You always always always bore and put in new pistons or rings in the block when you go down as far he did. He tried to save $1,000 and it failed. It is very possible that with the marine cam and the new heads that the compression is more than the old ford truck worn out bottom end can take and you have blow by. Very dumb move for a "Mechanic". You also have an oil rings and compression rings. They can be installed incorrectly. Every ring needs to be off center and never align to another ring. If you have seams that are in the same spot then the rings were installed incorrectly and you will consume oil. A REAL mechanic would have known this as well.

4. The amount of oil that the engine is loosing is entirely way too much. You have a problem.

5. Do you have access to a way to remove the engine from the boat.

6. What heads do you have on it? This will be a good time to put some gt40 or gt40p heads on it if you have the low output heads.



Engine removal if you do it, tear down to a short block (No heads, oil pan, oil pump) and drop it off at a machine shop for a bore, and re ring, will cost $1,000. I would verify the heads and see if they had been resurfaced and valve job (~250). I have rebuilt several 351W and they total out the door cost will push $2500 (block re ring, bore, bearings, crank resurface, balanced, cam, new heads, intake, head bolts) the only things re used at that price would be carb, ignition, distributor, oil pan, and oil pan bolts, intake bolts.



Please post a picture of the engine. Is the PCV valve vacuum being pulled from the intake or is it being pulled from some other source. If it is under the carb on the spacer as it is supposed to then don't worry about the pic.

svxwilson
05-30-2013, 04:14 PM
Here are some pics. I am new to forum so it is only letting me load one at a time.

svxwilson
05-30-2013, 04:15 PM
Next1

svxwilson
05-30-2013, 04:16 PM
Next2

svxwilson
05-30-2013, 04:17 PM
Next3

svxwilson
05-30-2013, 04:18 PM
Next4

svxwilson
05-30-2013, 04:19 PM
Next5

Jason.H.
05-30-2013, 04:32 PM
If the valve stem seals were bad it would smoke really bad at first initial cold start and after sitting for a while. Bad rings will smoke under engine load. The amount of oil your boat is consuming should make an obvious amount of smoke. Are you checking the oil with a hot engine while the boat is floating in the water and engine has been cut off for approx. five minutes? Checking oil on trailer can give false readings. Also, I have a 1990 tristar with an indmar 351w and the dipstick does not read correct at all. Some of them had the wrong dipstick from the factory. The part number on mine is supposed to be the correct one, but with fresh oil change and 4.75-5qts in engine dipstick reads like two quarts overfilled. Don't know why. But I would drain the oil and filter completely. Put 4.75-5qts in engine then next time you take it to lake run it until hot, cut off for 5 minutes and mark the dipstick where the oil is at and you will know for sure where the oil level should be.

Jim@BAWS
05-30-2013, 04:42 PM
1)Rear main seal..if someone over filled then that is a possibilty
2)If it has a QUICK DRAIN LUBE kit...See if the fitting is loose at the oil pan

svxwilson
05-30-2013, 06:03 PM
I will get more pictures up tomorrow. I was on my lunch and had a limited amount of time. I plan to check the spark plugs and compression tomorrow. when i first tested the compression before i bought it the engine had 10 hrs on it at that time and tested 135 on every chamber.
Engine now has 18 hrs on it and has the issues described.

The only other thing I can think of that I haven't mentioned is I had to pilot for a period of about 1.5 hrs on that last 8 hr trip that was very stormy. Large waves, heavy wind, rain, and hail. We had to keep moving because of the lake I was on. We were 15 miles from a dock think of this lake as the grand canyon with a lake at the bottom instead of a river. yellowtail dam, Montana. so I just ran straight through the storm till we got to the other side. Could the heavy waves knocked something loose? Or did I make the very wrong choice of driving the engine that long without a break?

I appreciate the ongoing support here. It's my first boat of my own, very few people actually own inboards in Montana, they are hard to find, I got tired of skiing behind a tired 2stroke bayliner that is why I bought it.

Even with its Ridiculous oil usage it ran very well. Had lots of power.

88 PS190
05-30-2013, 06:20 PM
1)Rear main seal..if someone over filled then that is a possibilty
2)If it has a QUICK DRAIN LUBE kit...See if the fitting is loose at the oil pan

Shouldn't both of these VISIBLY fill your hull with oil? He's losing quarts of earl.

svxwilson
05-30-2013, 06:24 PM
If the valve stem seals were bad it would smoke really bad at first initial cold start and after sitting for a while. Bad rings will smoke under engine load. The amount of oil your boat is consuming should make an obvious amount of smoke. Are you checking the oil with a hot engine while the boat is floating in the water and engine has been cut off for approx. five minutes? Checking oil on trailer can give false readings. Also, I have a 1990 tristar with an indmar 351w and the dipstick does not read correct at all. Some of them had the wrong dipstick from the factory. The part number on mine is supposed to be the correct one, but with fresh oil change and 4.75-5qts in engine dipstick reads like two quarts overfilled. Don't know why. But I would drain the oil and filter completely. Put 4.75-5qts in engine then next time you take it to lake run it until hot, cut off for 5 minutes and mark the dipstick where the oil is at and you will know for sure where the oil level should be.

The only time it smoked was when it was initially low oil. After I filled it it stopped smoking. And it never was much of a noticeable amount ( the smoke ) . The boat performed very well the whole time.
I checked the oil in my driveway before we left. The next time I checked it was 3 hrs into the lake trip and that's when I saw it was VERY low. Could barely see oil on frontside of dipstick. The backside of dipstick had oil almost to the top of it ( I have never seen that before, but my experience doesn't mean a whole lot ) . I added a quart at that time and it was still below the add level, I ran it to the marina and got 2 more quarts and it took all of that to get her level up to ok running level. I ran it for another 2-3 hrs and when I got home and checked it again in the same driveway as before and it still needed 3/4 quart to get the level up between add and full.

svxwilson
05-30-2013, 06:27 PM
Shouldn't both of these VISIBLY fill your hull with oil? He's losing quarts of earl.

Hull is very clean. No oil. No visible oil loss.

FrankSchwab
05-30-2013, 08:03 PM
If the oil isn't going into the bilge, it's either:
1. Going into the cylinders. With the amount you're losing, it should be readily apparent if you run the boat in the driveway - you'll either have plumes of smoke visible for miles around, or one of your plugs will be totally fouled and raw oil will be coming out the exhaust (see #2).
2. Going into the coolant and out the exhaust pipes. A bad head gasket somewhere (or a totally fouled plug) could be letting oil into the coolant. Run the boat in the driveway, capture water coming out of the exhaust, and see if it has an oil layer on top.

If the oil isn't going into the bilge, isn't getting burned, and isn't coming out with the coolant water, then you have a real conundrum

madcityskier
05-30-2013, 08:32 PM
If the oil isn't going into the bilge, isn't getting burned, and isn't coming out with the coolant water, then you have a real conundrum

I picture Doug Henning waving his hands around and announcing,"It's magic", with that god awful jerrycurl.

thatsmrmastercraft
05-30-2013, 11:24 PM
If the oil isn't going into the bilge, it's either:
1. Going into the cylinders. With the amount you're losing, it should be readily apparent if you run the boat in the driveway - you'll either have plumes of smoke visible for miles around, or one of your plugs will be totally fouled and raw oil will be coming out the exhaust (see #2).
2. Going into the coolant and out the exhaust pipes. A bad head gasket somewhere (or a totally fouled plug) could be letting oil into the coolant. Run the boat in the driveway, capture water coming out of the exhaust, and see if it has an oil layer on top.

If the oil isn't going into the bilge, isn't getting burned, and isn't coming out with the coolant water, then you have a real conundrum

Great idea.

svxwilson
05-31-2013, 12:04 AM
I ran it in the driveway tonight. No oil appears in the exhaust water. And no visible smoke. I reved it to 3000rpm still no smoke. Ran it for 10 min till engine got to temp.
Pulled the plugs and checked compression.... Was going well till I got to the 7th piston. 145 150 150 150 140 150 !30! 150 were the compressions I got. So I obviously have a serious problem in that piston.
If I check the oil diligently through the day and keep filling it do you guys think I can limp her through the summer and have it rebuilt the right way this winter?
It has more than plenty of power with 7 cylinders. To do what I need from it.

88 PS190
05-31-2013, 12:11 AM
I would be too curious to see why that piston is dead.

You can limp anything. But you might want an opinion why that piston is dead - I would bet gasket over rings or piston - if a head gasket you can do that on the lift with basic hand tools, so that's what I would do - regardless prior engine builder should warranty that service for you.

madcityskier
05-31-2013, 01:26 AM
Bad for the water, I'd have to bite the bullet on that. X2 in rebuilder should fix.

thatsmrmastercraft
05-31-2013, 01:32 AM
I would be too curious to see why that piston is dead.

You can limp anything. But you might want an opinion why that piston is dead - I would bet gasket over rings or piston - if a head gasket you can do that on the lift with basic hand tools, so that's what I would do - regardless prior engine builder should warranty that service for you.

I would agree with this as well. Head removal and inspection should only be a couple hours time. If it's only the head gasket, you will be back together and running like new in short order.

broncotw
05-31-2013, 10:28 AM
Take it back to the mechanic who performed the rebuild.... If he is worth his salt he should stand by his work and make it right.....

memphis23
05-31-2013, 12:01 PM
Compression loss like that is in the cylinder it is either a stuck valve or bad ring. I would never run my engine out of balance like that, you will make it very old very fast. No sense in aging a relatively new motor. The only thing that is confusing is there is no smoke, anything with that much oil loss and compression loss should have some smoke to go along with it. I agree with Bronco get it back to the mechanic and have him fix the bad compression.

ski/hunt
05-31-2013, 12:15 PM
Taking it back to that mechanic would be a hard call for me. Unless your taking it back to seller to get your money back!! I'd have a hard time putting the motor back into the hands of the "hack" that rebuilt it in the half-a$$ way he already did....Once you show up with with a problem this early into things, what kind of job will he do now??...If his best work lasted 15 hrs how good will his "re-do" be???
Get your money back or take it to a REAL mechanic and have it done right---

svxwilson
05-31-2013, 12:29 PM
Here is a pic of the spark plug from the piston with only 30 units of pressure.

svxwilson
05-31-2013, 12:36 PM
It was a private sale. I doubt taking it back is a option. It is now my problem. I relayed the problem and test results I have had and the seller asked his mechanic and the mechanic recommended a leak down test. Everybody here already mentioned that.

memphis23
05-31-2013, 12:40 PM
Wow plug looks good no oil at all. This is definitely a mystery.

Ski/Hunt has a good point about taking it back to the mechanic

Ok lets re hash: performance: good
smoke : none
oil level : has used 3 quarts of oil???
compression: good on all but 1 cylinder with 30 lbs of pressure
spark plugs : all look good
Am I missing anything????

thatsmrmastercraft
05-31-2013, 12:45 PM
With that spark plug that clean I am still thinking head gasket. That head needs to come off.

svxwilson
05-31-2013, 02:12 PM
The owner offered $500 cash back to make it right.... It is a private sale he doesn't have to help me out at all. I payed $6500 for it. Here are pics of all the plugs there were a few that were much darker than that one. The interior has some cracks in the Upholstery mostly the bottom seats. Other than that fiberglass is in good shape for the year. No stress cracks or anything.
I am trying to round up a leak down tester and will prob pull the head tomorrow after weather gets a bit better. Montana has felt like Seattle the last few weeks. Rain rain rain.

thatsmrmastercraft
05-31-2013, 02:14 PM
Sounds like you bought from a decent guy. He sure didn't have to do that.

svxwilson
05-31-2013, 02:14 PM
First

svxwilson
05-31-2013, 02:16 PM
Second

svxwilson
05-31-2013, 02:17 PM
Third

svxwilson
05-31-2013, 02:18 PM
Fourth

svxwilson
05-31-2013, 02:20 PM
Fifth

svxwilson
05-31-2013, 02:21 PM
Sixth

svxwilson
05-31-2013, 02:24 PM
My unlucky number 7

svxwilson
05-31-2013, 02:25 PM
And finally number 8

svxwilson
05-31-2013, 02:47 PM
# 1 3 and 6 are all darker than the other 5 does that mean anything?

drschemel
05-31-2013, 03:08 PM
# 1 3 and 6 are all darker than the other 5 does that mean anything?

do the leak down test. You should be able to get a tester at your autoparts store. It just screws into the sparkplug hole and you turn the engine until it shows compression then let it sit and see how long it takes for the pressure to come back down. the rebuilder might not have staggered the gaps on the rings and you are letting oil through. Still, the quantity you mention seems excessive for that. I wonder if it was not a comination of underfilling to start with then a slower loss after that?

FrankSchwab
05-31-2013, 03:17 PM
I wonder if it was not a combination of underfilling to start with then a slower loss after that?

This is what I'm thinking. Take the boat back out and put it on the lake. Measure the oil level on the water. Run it for 20 minutes. Measure the oil level. Run it for 20 minutes. Measure the oil level. Repeat until a pattern emerges.

Let's see what the real oil consumption is.

There's obviously a real failure in the #7 cylinder, but the lack of oil fouling on the plug would suggest to me that it's a seperate problem from the oil consumption issue.

petermegan
05-31-2013, 06:19 PM
All good suggestions here. Just wondering whether you were able to clarify with the mechanic or previous owner (if he knows), what exactly was done to this motor apart from some shiny new welsh plugs and a paint job. Is this just a secondhand truck bottom end? Were pistons and rings replaced and a rebore or hone done. I think it wise to track down this mechanic and try and get the full story. Could save you some money and headaches. Have fun.

svxwilson
05-31-2013, 10:40 PM
This is what I'm thinking. Take the boat back out and put it on the lake. Measure the oil level on the water. Run it for 20 minutes. Measure the oil level. Run it for 20 minutes. Measure the oil level. Repeat until a pattern emerges.

Let's see what the real oil consumption is.

There's obviously a real failure in the #7 cylinder, but the lack of oil fouling on the plug would suggest to me that it's a seperate problem from the oil consumption issue.

I am thinking that this logic is a good idea.

It was a 351 out of a 95 ford. Same rings and pistons as in truck. They did not have it bored or honed.
I am going to do the leak down test tomorrow and pull it apart and see what I can find. I bought a (leak tester) from Harbor freight it was only 39.99.
I have a feeling it might be a combo of doing my original measurements out of water, and something wrong just like you guys are suggesting.
I never actually tested it after I launched it. I never thought about the different angle of the boat on the trailer vs in the water. But that makes sense.
Could I do this same thing just in the driveway or do you think I need to actually need to have the prop spinning in the water for the correct results?

FrankSchwab
05-31-2013, 11:58 PM
I think you need to do it in the water - mostly because in the water you can put a load on the engine. Running 25 mph across the lake means the engine is probably generating 100 HP - you're not going to get anywhere near that in your driveway.

svxwilson
06-01-2013, 03:19 PM
Did the leak down test. It was very apparent the exhaust valve is stuck wide open. Had a very large amount of air coming out of the engine exhaust port. I took The valve covers off to give the exhaust spring a tap with air moving through it and the air would change pitch when you bang on it (exhaust valve spring)with a rubber mallet.
I think the reason why I didn't get oil through the exhaust in my driveway is because it just wasn't running hard enough to do so. When I was loosing the oil on the lake I was running it 25-30 mph skiing so it had a load on the engine.
I will pull it apart on my next day off and see what the actual problem is. I hope it's just a bent valve.

thatsmrmastercraft
06-01-2013, 03:36 PM
That is probably the best case scenario diagnosis.

SkiDaddy
06-02-2013, 07:54 AM
What did the leakdown test show for the other 7 cylinders?

Also, you had those three oily valves (1, 3, 6) that were noticably different than the cylinder where you think your problem lies. It looks like something is amiss on those as well.

I have a feeling that you might have more than just a single problem here. If you really are burning that much oil, I can't see it happening due to a valve hanging up. If it is, and maybe your are getting some oil into the cylinder via the valve seal, then why was that spark plug so clean? It should have been nasty.

Good luck!

svxwilson
06-02-2013, 02:45 PM
It was my first time with the leak down test, I only did the leak down on 3 cylinders. The other 2 had no leaks, at least not as obvious as #7. I used them as a reference to what a leak free piston should give for results. I will do a leak down on all the pistons before I pull it all the way apart Thursday.

Kyle
06-03-2013, 04:07 PM
I would pull the heads yes both of them. Take them to a machine shop for a rework.

I would assume that the bottom end is non molested and the rings are in the factory location so the rings being seamed together in the same location is probably not the case.

I personally would do the bottom end now but you can limp it per say a long time with just doing a valve job. ~$200-~300

Order new head gaskets and a new intake gasket.

Remove intake and heads. The distributor can stay in the engine.

Slightly bent valves are still bent. The total time will take 1-2 weeks and if you have simple hand tools then you can have it torn down in less than 2 hours.

Leave the lifters in the engine but I would remove them one at a time and look at the mating surface between the cam and lifter. Then put them back in one by one.

Then remove all push rods and label them in a cardboard box as they come out. They need to go back in the same holes. Roll each pushrod and see if they are bent. If one is bent then replace all of them.

There is no way that I would buy a reman engine at this point yet. The only way I'd buy a new engine is if I had a window in the side of the block.

You can be back and rolling for -$500 and your seller already gave you $500 back.

svxwilson
06-04-2013, 04:28 PM
Do I need marine gaskets? Is there such a item or do you use regular gaskets

Cloaked
06-04-2013, 04:33 PM
Do I need marine gaskets? Is there such a item or do you use regular gaskets
Yes....

www.skidim.com (http://www.skidim.com)

They have a good gasket kit.....

Not that you need my seal of approval but Kyle has you on the right track at this point in time...

I hope TxRiverRat does not get mad... :D

.

.

memphis23
06-04-2013, 04:40 PM
+2 on the direction Kyle has you going in and Cloaked has got you getting the good stuff from Skidim

76S&S
06-04-2013, 05:50 PM
... that's when I saw it was VERY low. Could barely see oil on frontside of dipstick. The backside of dipstick had oil almost to the top of it ( I have never seen that before, but my experience doesn't mean a whole lot ) . I added a quart at that time and it was still below the add level, I ran it to the marina and got 2 more quarts and it took all of that to get her level up to ok running level. I ran it for another 2-3 hrs and when I got home and checked it again in the same driveway as before and it still needed 3/4 quart to get the level up between add and full.

It just might be worth draining the oil to determine just how much oil is in the engine. I agree with others that if you were burning that much oil, you would be fogging the lake. The oil is either going somewhere or is still in the engine. Do you really know if the oil was full or not when you took delivery?

Edit: I'm not a mechanic by any stretch but something just doesn't add up here.

Kyle
06-04-2013, 06:51 PM
Yes I would use marine head gaskets.


ALTHOUGH I have taken apart Phntmski's '91 190 and RiverRat's '93 205. Both were NON molested engines. The Ford head gasket was not a marine gasket. It cross referenced to a Felpro automotive gasket. Texas Mastercraft parts dept told me that they used the felpro gasket. I used the felpro gasket on the 3 engines that I have built. I have had no issues with any of the 3 engines but I have not been running them in salt water.

I think that the marine gaskets would work great and that is what I would recommend for you. I don't feel like I cut any corners on the engines that I built, I know they are all fresh water engines and will never be in salt water and I am confident that the OEM Ford or the Felpro would be just fine.


I would also buy a good intake gasket.



Buy the 2 gaskets and send those heads off and call her a day.

svxwilson
06-04-2013, 07:35 PM
Yes I would use marine head gaskets.


ALTHOUGH I have taken apart Phntmski's '91 190 and RiverRat's '93 205. Both were NON molested engines. The Ford head gasket was not a marine gasket. It cross referenced to a Felpro automotive gasket. Texas Mastercraft parts dept told me that they used the felpro gasket. I used the felpro gasket on the 3 engines that I have built. I have had no issues with any of the 3 engines but I have not been running them in salt water.

I think that the marine gaskets would work great and that is what I would recommend for you. I don't feel like I cut any corners on the engines that I built, I know they are all fresh water engines and will never be in salt water and I am confident that the OEM Ford or the Felpro would be just fine.


I would also buy a good intake gasket.



Buy the 2 gaskets and send those heads off and call her a day.

I don't have a local machine shop that I have done any buisness with. I am not familiar with this process at all. When looking for a shop would it be a place that advertises engine work or will most machine shops have what they need to do this task?

svxwilson
06-04-2013, 07:42 PM
Yes I would use marine head gaskets.


ALTHOUGH I have taken apart Phntmski's '91 190 and RiverRat's '93 205. Both were NON molested engines. The Ford head gasket was not a marine gasket. It cross referenced to a Felpro automotive gasket. Texas Mastercraft parts dept told me that they used the felpro gasket. I used the felpro gasket on the 3 engines that I have built. I have had no issues with any of the 3 engines but I have not been running them in salt water.

I think that the marine gaskets would work great and that is what I would recommend for you. I don't feel like I cut any corners on the engines that I built, I know they are all fresh water engines and will never be in salt water and I am confident that the OEM Ford or the Felpro would be just fine.


I would also buy a good intake gasket.



Buy the 2 gaskets and send those heads off and call her a day.

Fresh water is the only water for me. At least in the conceivable future. Montana is the place for me. It would take a small act of congress for me to relocate. Way to much here for me.

Kyle
06-05-2013, 11:59 AM
I don't have a local machine shop that I have done any buisness with. I am not familiar with this process at all. When looking for a shop would it be a place that advertises engine work or will most machine shops have what they need to do this task?

Here is what I would do.

Stop into a ford dealership and ask to speak with the service manager. Ask them if they could recommend a good machine shop to do a valve job on your 351w heads. Get referral

Go to a mom and pop shop. Ask the guy who he sends his products to for machine work and get the referral.

After getting a couple of places drive by and talk to the machine shops. Note. These places are normally dirty and chit is scattered everywhere. People drop off nasty greasy parts so if it kinda looks junky, well it is supposed to.

Speak to the owner and get a feel of comfort. Tell them you want the standard 3 angle valve job.

They will completely dissasemble the head. Clean up all of the valves and either fix or replace the bent valves. They will clean and tumble the heads. Then reassemble. They will test springs and make sure they are still good.


When you get the heads back they will look brand new. You will need to repaint them and you may ask the shop if they could paint them black again for you. Some shops will do this.


While the shop has the heads clean up the block where the head gasket goes. Make 100% sure that gasket material does NOT get into the engine where the pushrods and lifters go. If it getis into the cylinder area and it will just wipe it out with some brake cleaner. Once you get a percectly clean block where intake gasket and head gaskets go then take a towel and cover the engine. If it is rainy where you are lightly coat the block surface with oil applied by a finger or lightly spray wd40 on it and cover it. Moisture will leave rust spots on a block over night.

Get your heads back. Clean the oil off of the block with brake cleaner and put the head gaskets on dry. Put heads on. Torque them down. Install intake gasket with gasket glue only around water jackets and in the corners also along the front and back gasket. Install the intake (it's heavy with carb still attached) but install and make sure you do NOT slide the gaskets when installing. Basically drop it slowly straight down onto block and heads. Torque her down. Install alternator, hoses, throttle cable and wiring harness.

Then go enjoy your boat

thatsmrmastercraft
06-05-2013, 12:03 PM
Here is what I would do.

Stop into a ford dealership and ask to speak with the service manager. Ask them if they could recommend a good machine shop to do a valve job on your 351w heads. Get referral

Go to a mom and pop shop. Ask the guy who he sends his products to for machine work and get the referral.

After getting a couple of places drive by and talk to the machine shops. Note. These places are normally dirty and chit is scattered everywhere. People drop off nasty greasy parts so if it kinda looks junky, well it is supposed to.

Speak to the owner and get a feel of comfort. Tell them you want the standard 3 angle valve job.

They will completely dissasemble the head. Clean up all of the valves and either fix or replace the bent valves. They will clean and tumble the heads. Then reassemble. They will test springs and make sure they are still good.


When you get the heads back they will look brand new. You will need to repaint them and you may ask the shop if they could paint them black again for you. Some shops will do this.


While the shop has the heads clean up the block where the head gasket goes. Make 100% sure that gasket material does NOT get into the engine where the pushrods and lifters go. If it getis into the cylinder area and it will just wipe it out with some brake cleaner. Once you get a percectly clean block where intake gasket and head gaskets go then take a towel and cover the engine. If it is rainy where you are lightly coat the block surface with oil applied by a finger or lightly spray wd40 on it and cover it. Moisture will leave rust spots on a block over night.

Get your heads back. Clean the oil off of the block with brake cleaner and put the head gaskets on dry. Put heads on. Torque them down. Install intake gasket with gasket glue only around water jackets and in the corners also along the front and back gasket. Install the intake (it's heavy with carb still attached) but install and make sure you do NOT slide the gaskets when installing. Basically drop it slowly straight down onto block and heads. Torque her down. Install alternator, hoses, throttle cable and wiring harness.

Then go enjoy your boat

Good job Kyle :toast:

Kyle
06-05-2013, 12:04 PM
Yes....

www.skidim.com (http://www.skidim.com)

They have a good gasket kit.....

Not that you need my seal of approval but Kyle has you on the right track at this point in time...

I hope TxRiverRat does not get mad... :D

.

.


Lol you never know with Rat. Panties can get into a tight knot fast with him.

Kyle
06-05-2013, 12:14 PM
Good job Kyle :toast:

Thanks man

thatsmrmastercraft
06-05-2013, 12:52 PM
Thanks man

http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/ani/ani_tiphat.gif

André
06-05-2013, 04:08 PM
Very good post Kyle!!!:)

svxwilson
06-06-2013, 01:20 PM
Here is what I would do.

Stop into a ford dealership and ask to speak with the service manager. Ask them if they could recommend a good machine shop to do a valve job on your 351w heads. Get referral

Go to a mom and pop shop. Ask the guy who he sends his products to for machine work and get the referral.

After getting a couple of places drive by and talk to the machine shops. Note. These places are normally dirty and chit is scattered everywhere. People drop off nasty greasy parts so if it kinda looks junky, well it is supposed to.

Speak to the owner and get a feel of comfort. Tell them you want the standard 3 angle valve job.

They will completely dissasemble the head. Clean up all of the valves and either fix or replace the bent valves. They will clean and tumble the heads. Then reassemble. They will test springs and make sure they are still good.


When you get the heads back they will look brand new. You will need to repaint them and you may ask the shop if they could paint them black again for you. Some shops will do this.


While the shop has the heads clean up the block where the head gasket goes. Make 100% sure that gasket material does NOT get into the engine where the pushrods and lifters go. If it getis into the cylinder area and it will just wipe it out with some brake cleaner. Once you get a percectly clean block where intake gasket and head gaskets go then take a towel and cover the engine. If it is rainy where you are lightly coat the block surface with oil applied by a finger or lightly spray wd40 on it and cover it. Moisture will leave rust spots on a block over night.

Get your heads back. Clean the oil off of the block with brake cleaner and put the head gaskets on dry. Put heads on. Torque them down. Install intake gasket with gasket glue only around water jackets and in the corners also along the front and back gasket. Install the intake (it's heavy with carb still attached) but install and make sure you do NOT slide the gaskets when installing. Basically drop it slowly straight down onto block and heads. Torque her down. Install alternator, hoses, throttle cable and wiring harness.

Then go enjoy your boat

Here is the problem.

svxwilson
06-06-2013, 01:21 PM
The other part of the problem.

svxwilson
06-06-2013, 01:22 PM
More pics

svxwilson
06-06-2013, 01:23 PM
Last one

CantRepeat
06-06-2013, 02:00 PM
Is that lifter stuck in the bore?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
06-06-2013, 02:12 PM
personally I would not worry to much about the valve slapping the piston, as far as the lifter an explanation is needed as to whats going on...


If you don't have a local machine shop, I have a set of good factory heads off my 351w when I did my top end, they are in good shape with 350 hrs on them, PM me if your interested.

svxwilson
06-06-2013, 02:46 PM
I pulled that lifter out that is why it was sticking up in the pic. I had not put it back all the way yet.

svxwilson
06-06-2013, 04:02 PM
All the valves

svxwilson
06-06-2013, 04:05 PM
Better light

BARE5
06-06-2013, 05:23 PM
Definitely go to visit a ford dealership and inquire.

Kyle
06-07-2013, 01:16 AM
Ok so we gotta take both heads to a machine shop.

Verify the lifters are in good shape

The push rods must be straight if they are bent then replace all of them. It's ok to clean them with brake cleaner.

The piston will be fine. That little impression in the top of the piston won't matter.



Verify if the half ars mechanic put in a brand spanking new timing set.


We have got to figure out why the piston hit the valve. Timing must be at 10*.

Kyle
06-07-2013, 01:28 AM
The valve and piston look like they smacked each other 1 time. That's better than lots of times that may indicate other issues.



James is a very stand up guy and a tech as well. He knows his stuff and would not sell anyone junk. He made the 3.5 hour trip from Houston to DFW for a week long tech training a few years back. I met him and we skied together. If you can't find a machine shop his heads will be just fine. There is no way that I would second guess his heads. He is an honest guy and would be a very good source if need be.

Kyle
06-07-2013, 01:32 AM
Take a pic of the end of the head where the alternator bracket attaches to.


Basically if you were looking at the pulleys and you see the front edge with engine fully assembled.

Also take a pic of where the springs are.

It is to identify exactly what kind of heads you have.

svxwilson
06-07-2013, 09:51 AM
Take a pic of the end of the head where the alternator bracket attaches to.


Basically if you were looking at the pulleys and you see the front edge with engine fully assembled.

Also take a pic of where the springs are.

It is to identify exactly what kind of heads you have.

I know the heads are out of the 95 ford f150 the engine came out of. It is my understanding that marine heads have tighter springs than automotive due to the extra stress the marine engine goes through at higher RPMs. Can I rebuild the ones I have or would it be better to rebuild a actual marine set like the ones James has offered me?
I have also found a first mate marine long block that could be here Wed-Thursday next week for $2200 with shipping and I get to keep my core.
My deadline is June 16 I have vacation time then and my dad has traveled very far (Brazil) to come and see me and I wanted to take the old man out on the boat. I must order the engine today to fit the timeline, or make a decision on the heads today.

svxwilson
06-07-2013, 09:53 AM
Some more

svxwilson
06-07-2013, 09:54 AM
The last

Kyle
06-07-2013, 11:03 AM
I texted James about his heads.

Couple of things here. I know you don't have a Mastercraft but get the head off of the gel. Someone will flame you over it on this site. Just warning you. Right now is not a very fun time and I get it but someone will not be nice about it. Trust me. I was flamed for standing on my bow with shoes on.


Moving on.

I'm trying to find out if James has gt40 or gt40p heads. He may only have standard heads almost the same as what you have but they will work. If he has gt heads then that boat will wake up on power.

Knowing what he posted about 350 hours, well that's nothing. You could just slap them on and roll. They won't need a rework.





Here is my main concern now. Your timing is off or something to have a piston smack a valve. I seriously doubt that you or anyone else floated valves enough to hit them.

I would pull the timing cover off and see if the gear markings are in the correct place. Yes you will need a few more gaskets that may total $20 but you know if the idiot who put it together did it right or wrong. This should take an hour or two total time. Remove And reinstall. Just put the balancer bolt into the crank and rotate the engine by hand. There is no compression and it should turn real easy. Make sure the gear markings line up and they were not installed incorrectly.


Do you have a timing light


Do you have a shop manual.

svxwilson
06-07-2013, 12:13 PM
I don't have a timing light or shop manual.

svxwilson
06-07-2013, 12:30 PM
I fear we have reached my ends of my current mechanical ability.i have found a shop that will help me finish this project. They can do machine work and mechanic work and will warranty their work. He gave me prices on what every different option I have. If I wanted to order the first mate marine long block he said he would remove whats left of this engine and reinstall new and get it running well for $850 and if I wanted to do the top end it would be $650. He said worst possible scenario for heads is $500 for rebuilding them. Reworking and reinstalling whole current engine would be $2500-3000.

So if I did the first mate engine for $2200 that installed would be $3050.

svxwilson
06-07-2013, 12:36 PM
I could also get James heads and have them check the timing and put it all back together. Today is my last day off till June 16th. So I won't have time to tinker with it after today that is also another reason why I am looking into paying someone else to finish. The shop understands the time crunch and they expressed very well that they could easily do any of the above options with the time I have.

Kyle
06-07-2013, 01:05 PM
If you need some instructions then I can scan parts of my manual.

James has heads that will hook right up.

All you need are gaskets.

Kyle
06-07-2013, 01:09 PM
You can clean the block and intake area.

Wait 3-4 days for James' heads. Meanwhile buy head gaskets and intake gaskets.

Installation for a non tech 4 hours to be running.

Think about the time ur will take to drag your boat around and jockey back n fourth. By the time it takes you to do all of that you could be almost finished doing the job and saving cash

Kyle
06-07-2013, 01:34 PM
Your comfort level with your mechanical ability is all you. Always one to push them to just dig into it.


If that wrecking yard engine has 200k on it then I would not even think twice about doing the lower end too.



I would hate to push your abilities and you eff something up or have to tear back into it. Things happen and I've been inside 100's of engines so it is simple to me. So if you are tapping your abilities and don't have the tools to do the job keep that in mind.

Personally I would get James heads. Install and recheck compression. The only other problem can be rings and a bore hone job.

FrankSchwab
06-07-2013, 01:52 PM
Of course, this thread started with him losing a lot of oil - it's not clear to me that that bent valve is the cause of that. I'd hate to see him go down the "just bolt some heads on it" path, and find out he's still dumping more oil than the Exxon Valdez.

CantRepeat
06-07-2013, 02:11 PM
What does the cylinder wall look like on the piston with the valve mark? Its possible it could have jammed it hard enough to break the skirt of the piston off at the oil ring grove. /shrug

wtrskr
06-07-2013, 04:39 PM
I fear we have reached my ends of my current mechanical ability.i have found a shop that will help me finish this project. They can do machine work and mechanic work and will warranty their work. He gave me prices on what every different option I have. If I wanted to order the first mate marine long block he said he would remove whats left of this engine and reinstall new and get it running well for $850 and if I wanted to do the top end it would be $650. He said worst possible scenario for heads is $500 for rebuilding them. Reworking and reinstalling whole current engine would be $2500-3000.

So if I did the first mate engine for $2200 that installed would be $3050.

I didn't know jack squat about engines before dealing with a blown head gasket. I successfully tore my heads off, put it back together, and set the timing. A few months prior, I didn't know what the heads were, and probably would have had to take a guess as to which device was the starter, for example.

I purchased a timing light for, I want to say, under $30.

You made it this far, I'm cheering for you to take her to the finish line.

svxwilson
06-07-2013, 05:05 PM
My largest limitation is the lack of tools and overall knowledge. If it was April or maybe early may I would have more time to learn and eff up and fix it. I would rather pay a pro like yourself to do it right the first time (being that it is June 7th).

Kyle
06-07-2013, 05:11 PM
Guys the op wants a very fast turn around time. With a hung open valve it is possible that oil is just going right out the exhaust and there is enough water to dilute the oil film. Keep in mind hot water will wash it away better.

The op is also on a budget. So 2-3k is not very appealing to him.

That piston probably is ok otherwise it would clatter like a sob. He says add oil it performs better.

Well an engine starving for oil is bad but if oil gets inside the cylinder it will add compression to a dead cylinder bc the oil won't compress.


I'm still on board for the op to keep at it. Try the heads and go from there. Worst case the heads come back off and the bottom end gets done. James heads are cheaper than a valve job shipped. I'd start there

Kyle
06-07-2013, 05:27 PM
My largest limitation is the lack of tools and overall knowledge. If it was April or maybe early may I would have more time to learn and eff up and fix it. I would rather pay a pro like yourself to do it right the first time (being that it is June 7th).

I completely understand the fear.

I would have them really look at that block and very much consider doing the bottom end then.


There is a chance that the heads will fix the bent valve but not the oil consumption. Therefore the engine would have to come back out again. Have the mechanic measure the cylinder and see if he recommends removal. If its needed then do it.


Trust me I know what you're feeling and it sucks. I sent a rod through my block and trashed the oil pan along with destroying the distributor and breaking the cam into 6 pieces, all in the summer. It sucks. I found a pan and then started rebuilding it. There is a thread on TT about it.


I also have all of the tools and a way to lift the engine and tranny out of the boat. Sounds like you are kinda stuck there too. You also need a good torque wrench that you probably could rent but like you said. It's hard to learn everything in 10 days.




Just know all of us Mastercraft guys were willing to walk you through it even though you have an off brand boat ;)

Hope you get it fixed correctly and enjoy the rest of summer. The amount of fun you will have with your family will offset the dreaded cost of repair.

Your Mechanic Is A Hack
06-07-2013, 07:46 PM
Hello, Just wanted to clear up a few things. I am the mechanic that repaired Andys boat. You can call me Jon, as that is my real name. I simply wated to help everyone understand the full scope of the porblem.

First, to clear up the concerns about my training. I have a bachelor degree in science from a real university here in Montana. The focus of my education was automotive repair and business managment. I also hold and ASE Master certification in light duty cars/trucks and heavy duty trucks. I have worked for General Motors for the last 10 years as a service mechanic and hold complete certification from GM as well. If it helps show character, I also have a commercial pilot license.

Second, I don't know how Andy (the previous boat owner) presented the engine to the OP, but I do think it was represented correctly. I think this, because when Andy, the OP and myself went to the lake for a test drive, we talk about what the engine was.

Third, As for the OP thinking that the heads needed to be retorqued, that is incorrect. What I suggested the OP do is, re adjsut the valves. I'm guessing you will say that is not needed on a 351, but you are incorrect in thinking that. Andy had me install compcams roller tip rockers. So, no hard feeling to the OP, just wanted to clear that up.

Now back to the engine, as that is the real focus of the thread. We installed the used truck engine after long consideration. Andy did not plan to keep the boat forever, but also did not plan to sell it right away. Not keeping the boat forever=don't spend max dollar for a new engine in a used boat. So, off he went to Montana Car and Truck Salvage, where they had a great running normal compression used engine out of a truck that had been totaled. They are stand up people at that salvage yard and I have full faith in what they claim is a good running engine. So, Andy worked a deal with them and loaded up the truck with his brand new used motor. So, Andy and I are great friends and I said I would help him with converting the engine to a marine engine. See, at my work, we at times will install a boat engine for people if they purchase the GM engine from us. What we do: install the marine cam, brass plugs and all other bolt-ons like sealed starter and such. So, I didn't think we would have any concerns doing this to a running engine. Only change is we wanted to take care of some things when we had the engine on the stand. So, we cleaned the carbon from the rings and valves with GM top engine cleaner (added through the spark plug holes and intake ports). Installed new valve steam seals (we did not remove the heads, I can explain how this is done if someone would like to do this) New intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, electronic ignition, camshaft, lifters, brass plugs, block drain kit, doubble roller timing set, crankshaft bearings, carb kit, comp cams roller tip rockers and some other odds and ends.

Is the cam timing correct? Yes, it is set at 0deg, like it should be. the timing chain set that was installed has 3 positions, 0deg, 4 deg retarted and 4 deg advanced. To help clear up if the chain set was the cause of the bent vlave, It is not. If the cam is out of time, all the exhaust valves would be bent, not just one. Also, the timing did not change 15 hrs later. Ignition timing (aka the distributor) was set at 10deg advanced.

As for the bent valve, it is possibly due to the valve stiking in the guide due to guide wear, overspeed, sticking lifter,or who knows...

As for oil consumption, if it bent a valve and then started using oil, its probably related to that cylinder. If it happens to be that it bent a vlave and has oil consumption, maybe an oil ring is broken on a piston, maybe one of the new vlave steam seals is cut or defective, so many things could be wrong. The only way to know would be to tear it all the way down.

So, Andy and the OP are on good terms. The OP and I are on good terms. I haven't tried to rip anyone off... I'd offer Andy a refund if I charged him, but we are just friends... So, I didn't charge him. Was Andy trying to sell a bum boat? No, it just happes to work out that it was better to sell the Super Comp. He has a bum knee, half of our friends are married to the other half of our friends and they all have kids. Another guy moved to California with his wife... The guy living next door has a Super Air Nautique.... there are half a dozen reasons he decided to sell it. None being to make a gain over what he had in the boat (I'm sure he lost his share of $$ in the deal) or to rip anyone off.

As for what the OP should do? Take it to the guy he knows and have them install the reman engine. It has a warranty that way and will be what is best for his joy of skiing and need to a timely turnaround. I would not suggest he fixes it at his house with limited time. Anyone could fix the engine with the proper training, however if it is felt that I did a bad job, despite my training, the OP will also have the same problem due to even less technical training.

Just wanted to clear things up for everyone. Hope it helps and now that you have the full story, you can make more accurate assements.

1redTA
06-07-2013, 08:32 PM
^^^ how about new valve springs to match a marine cam versus a truck cam ( with who knows how many miles)

I think a freshening of this bottom end is in order and in my opinion any sharp edges on that piston will most likely lead to Pre-detonation. A new bottom end lit from summit or jegs for a 351w will be fine and cheap. Throw the gt40 heads earlier in the thread on it and have an engine you know will last and perform

svxwilson
06-07-2013, 08:35 PM
I never wanted anyone to think poorly of either the builder or the seller. Even with a installed rebuilt engine I am right around the boats value or what I have into it. Thanks for the Clarification on everything Jon. I didn't want to bothering you over the whole deal which is why I joined this forum to pick the brains of the experts here who helped me out.

Andy gave me $500 back which will help a lot in the reinstall of the new engine I have ordered. And i didnt even have to ask him for anything he offered that on his own. I found a reman with 300HP and a 7yr or 500 hr warranty so I am planning on aborting the mission to fix it myself. I do get to keep the core which is a bonus.

svxwilson
06-07-2013, 08:57 PM
http://www.usmarineengine.com/ is where I ordered my engine from. Sounds like it will be a overall good deal. I want to thank everyone who posted there $.02 and the people who helped with $100's of info. I know I am not the best when it comes to engines and mechanics I never ment to Misrepresent any info from or for the builder or seller.
This was the first time for me pulling a engine apart like I did. It was fun and I learned a lot in the last few weeks. I also learned how much I don't know. Which is much more than I know by Exponential amounts.
Never the less it was a learning experience and I appreciate everyone involved. I will post some pics after the succesful engine swap.

FrankSchwab
06-07-2013, 09:58 PM
Glad everything is working out for you, but sorry that you had the experience you did. Just think, if you'd spent $60,000 on a new boat you wouldn't have had to worry about this...

/frank

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
06-07-2013, 10:29 PM
Good luck with the new reman,
personally I would have popped a new valve and new seal in the head barring the guide is not damaged, reassembled and tested. Whole lot cheaper. I mean you did tear it down to this point you could easily reassemble all you need is a torque wrench and a couple of hours work. Just my opinion...

Longdrive
06-07-2013, 10:39 PM
Good luck and hang in there.




Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

thatsmrmastercraft
06-07-2013, 11:04 PM
Good to hear you have chosen a repair path that will get you back on the water when you need to. Keep us posted on how the new engine performs.

svxwilson
06-07-2013, 11:25 PM
Just think, if you'd spent $60,000 on a new boat you wouldn't have had to worry about this...

/frank[/QUOTE]

That is good. I like that

svxwilson
06-07-2013, 11:35 PM
I will end up with the current longblock out of the deal too. So if I want I can tinker with it to learn more. Or sell it. I am sure it still has a value to it. Worth something to someone. If it didn't cost me $200 to ship it back I would return it or the core charge of $350 so it's at least worth $350 to a engine builder.
What does everyone think the longblock that I Have is worth? What should I do with it?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
06-08-2013, 12:05 AM
Boat anchor? Truck motors are dime a dozen...

svxwilson
06-08-2013, 12:22 AM
Boat anchor? Truck motors are dime a dozen...

If I find no other use this may not be a bad idea. Maybe no the whole thing but parts of it maybe;)!

CantRepeat
06-08-2013, 07:07 AM
Degree wheel used to degree the cam?

svxwilson
06-18-2013, 12:27 PM
Picking up my boat after its Heart transplant. Gunna take her to the lake for her break in voyage. I will post how she does tonight or tomorrow.

thatsmrmastercraft
06-18-2013, 12:45 PM
Good luck. Hope everything goes as expected.

svxwilson
06-18-2013, 06:28 PM
Imagine this.... More complications. Oh so fun.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
06-18-2013, 07:26 PM
Imagine this.... More complications. Oh so fun.

Do tell...

svxwilson
06-18-2013, 08:17 PM
My mechanic (Frank) had some worries about the way they shipped the engine. It appeared as if it tipped over in the truck or who really knows(FedEx). There was a obvious amount of visible saw dust inside of the top of the heads by the valve springs. My mechanic (Frank) called the engine builders about it and they assured him it would be ok....
He installed it and it is acting like there is a valve problem. Frank is probably working on it right now. I will talk with Frank either later tonight or tomorrow morning as to what he found as a resolution between the builder and him. Sucks getting stuck with a warranty problem without ever even hitting the H2O.

svxwilson
06-19-2013, 05:45 PM
Started a new thread with my new problems rather Than keep this old one alive. Thanks for everyone's help.