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Rockman
05-28-2013, 10:41 AM
Had the 94 190 (LT1) out this weekend for the first time this season.

Boat started up right away and sounded good. We idled out for a bit from the launch and then headed over to the other side of the lake to start footing.

When pushing the throttle down, motor would max out at 2000 rpms and only in the 20s for speed.

Got to other side of the lake, set up the boom, etc., restarted the boat and all was good.

At the end of the day, coming back to the ramp, same thing...throttle all the way down but tach maxed out at 2000 rpms and speed in the 20s.

Not sure if it is a throttle cable issue or maybe a fuel filter? :confused:

Otherwise, the boat performed without any issues.

Schrade
05-28-2013, 10:51 AM
My first thought is fuel filter. Check the one on top of the tank as well, or the always popular screen on the bottom of the fuel pump.

Ski-me
05-28-2013, 11:28 AM
That sucks to hear on the first trip out!

T-stats correct? 142 and 160 with hole?

Rockman
05-28-2013, 01:12 PM
That sucks to hear on the first trip out!

T-stats correct? 142 and 160 with hole?

The boat worked fine when anyone was behind it! ;)



The temp gauge was showing 140 or 160 all day...no issues...but I will check the T-Stat tonight...


I will check the fuel filters...I do not believe there is one above the tank though...when I pulled the tank out to drain it and clean it, I do not remember seeing a filter there.

So there should be one inside the tank then and another on the back side of the motor correct?

Ski-me
05-28-2013, 02:54 PM
The boat worked fine when anyone was behind it! ;)



The temp gauge was showing 140 or 160 all day...no issues...but I will check the T-Stat tonight...


I will check the fuel filters...I do not believe there is one above the tank though...when I pulled the tank out to drain it and clean it, I do not remember seeing a filter there.

So there should be one inside the tank then and another on the back side of the motor correct?

I didn't have the first filter on top of the tank....only the one in the engine compartment. I just added an in-line filter just after the tank and before the fuel pump. If I recall, the gas goes from the tank, to the fuel pump, to the filter. That's why we get debris at the bottom of the pump screen. Give that a cleaning first and then an in-line one on top of the tank.

No filter within gas tank other than just a screen at the bottom of the pickup tube.

Main Fuel Filter – Napa FIL 3481
Tank Fuel Filter – Napa FIL 3482

Pics of filter:

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=50726

88 PS190
05-28-2013, 03:03 PM
I'd even question prop/hull fouling if those numbers weren't so specific, my experience with fuel is that the boat falls on its face then catches again, if it holds 2000 even I'd be checking ignition.

Rockman
05-28-2013, 04:27 PM
I'd even question prop/hull fouling if those numbers weren't so specific, my experience with fuel is that the boat falls on its face then catches again, if it holds 2000 even I'd be checking ignition.

Alright 88, now you are getting me worried...what are you referring to as prop/hull fouling? Not quite following you...


What should I check for ignition? I pulled the dash forward to install new depth guage but did not touch any other wires...everything was good and tight.:confused:

Rockman
05-28-2013, 04:27 PM
I didn't have the first filter on top of the tank....only the one in the engine compartment. I just added an in-line filter just after the tank and before the fuel pump. If I recall, the gas goes from the tank, to the fuel pump, to the filter. That's why we get debris at the bottom of the pump screen. Give that a cleaning first and then an in-line one on top of the tank.

No filter within gas tank other than just a screen at the bottom of the pickup tube.

Main Fuel Filter Napa FIL 3481
Tank Fuel Filter Napa FIL 3482

Pics of filter:

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=50726

Thanks Jeff!

Table Rocker
05-28-2013, 06:49 PM
It sounds like it went into RPM reduction mode.

ricford
05-28-2013, 07:01 PM
It sounds like it went into RPM reduction mode.

x2, I'd say something was telling it to go into "limp" mode. Check the engine codes, see if anything is stored. Otherwise bring a code reader with you and if it does it again plug it in and check it. Could be just a bad temp sensor or something.

Table Rocker
05-28-2013, 07:14 PM
The ECM uses a different temp sensor than the gauge. The sensor the ECM uses is on the starboard head near the rear.

Here is the chart of coolant sensor resistance values:

88 PS190
05-28-2013, 08:22 PM
Alright 88, now you are getting me worried...what are you referring to as prop/hull fouling? Not quite following you...:

Fouling is stuff wrapped up or caught up on the shaft/strut. Places with weeds and such you can actually have the shaft wrapped up.

Every fuel issue I have had either doesn't operate, or runs normal till the fuel gets scarce and cuts off.

Rockman
05-28-2013, 08:31 PM
So the Limp Mode makes sense...just need to go down the list of reasons...

Couple things I am going to check based on some searching on this site and comments I received above:

Fuel screen in tank
Fuel filter on back of motor (do not have one above tank but will install soon)
Battery voltage (just got new battery though but hey...)
Cap condition
Rotor condition
Battery cables for heat when boat is running
Anything caught up in the shaft / prop
Thermostat

Seems an MCX had the same issues here:

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=54589&highlight=limp


I was trying to think of the things that happened this weekend...full tank of 91 octane going out on Saturday...3/4 of a tank going out Sunday. So we had enough gas both days.

One thing that I totally forgot was that at the end of the day Sunday, starting the boat almost made it seem like the battery was dead. All we had on at times were the regular radio (no amps, etc) and the blower...

Where can I get a scanner to plug into the LT1?

Ski-me
05-28-2013, 08:38 PM
I'd do the temp sensor too. I don't think its too expensive and easy to do.

Don't worry, yours sounds just like mine and definitely not a fun feeling. You'll get it though!

mikeg205
05-28-2013, 09:31 PM
So the Limp Mode makes sense...just need to go down the list of reasons...

Couple things I am going to check based on some searching on this site and comments I received above:

Fuel screen in tank
Fuel filter on back of motor (do not have one above tank but will install soon)
Battery voltage (just got new battery though but hey...)
Cap condition
Rotor condition
Battery cables for heat when boat is running
Anything caught up in the shaft / prop
Thermostat

Seems an MCX had the same issues here:

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=54589&highlight=limp


I was trying to think of the things that happened this weekend...full tank of 91 octane going out on Saturday...3/4 of a tank going out Sunday. So we had enough gas both days.

One thing that I totally forgot was that at the end of the day Sunday, starting the boat almost made it seem like the battery was dead. All we had on at times were the regular radio (no amps, etc) and the blower...

Where can I get a scanner to plug into the LT1?


Plug is at Michigan motorz http://www.michiganmotorz.com/codemate-tester-mefi-code-reader-p-2459.html

Rockman
05-28-2013, 11:36 PM
Thanks Mike!

One thing I was thinking about tonight...weather was bad out so I was not able to pull the boat out of the garage to start messing around...gut tells me that fuel is not the issue since boat ran great at WOT a number of times...all gauges were within normal operating specs and neither warning light came on...maybe the alternator is going...if it indeed is going, it is deminishing the power of the battery and thus causing the boat to be hard to start and at that point, send the boat into limp mode and cause the rpms to max out at 2000.

Question is whether I need a marine alternator or not...skidim has one for $214.

My ideas make any sense?:confused:

Ski-me
05-28-2013, 11:42 PM
Thanks Mike!

One thing I was thinking about tonight...weather was bad out so I was not able to pull the boat out of the garage to start messing around...gut tells me that fuel is not the issue since boat ran great at WOT a number of times...all gauges were within normal operating specs and neither warning light came on...maybe the alternator is going...if it indeed is going, it is deminishing the power of the battery and thus causing the boat to be hard to start and at that point, send the boat into limp mode and cause the rpms to max out at 2000.

Question is whether I need a marine alternator or not...skidim has one for $214.

My ideas make any sense?:confused:

What kind of voltage readings are you getting at the alternator? I just checked mine out of curiosity last week and mine was at 14.3 or 14.4 if I recall. Definitely in the 14's. Whereas my volt gauge in my instrument cluster said like 8 or 9 volts (there's an easy fix for this too). Also, what voltage is at the battery?

88 PS190
05-29-2013, 12:03 AM
Alternators can be rebuilt cheap - I got a guy near Lyons IL if you need one.

mikeg205
05-29-2013, 08:35 AM
Thanks Mike!

One thing I was thinking about tonight...weather was bad out so I was not able to pull the boat out of the garage to start messing around...gut tells me that fuel is not the issue since boat ran great at WOT a number of times...all gauges were within normal operating specs and neither warning light came on...maybe the alternator is going...if it indeed is going, it is deminishing the power of the battery and thus causing the boat to be hard to start and at that point, send the boat into limp mode and cause the rpms to max out at 2000.

Question is whether I need a marine alternator or not...skidim has one for $214.

My ideas make any sense?:confused:

I got a powersports marine at NAPA on 59... I paid a bit more but got it same day...

Definitely a marine alternator... it has a brushes seal away to prevent - sparks...

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=RPS7465PS_0381521553

JimN
05-29-2013, 09:30 AM
Alright 88, now you are getting me worried...what are you referring to as prop/hull fouling? Not quite following you...


What should I check for ignition? I pulled the dash forward to install new depth guage but did not touch any other wires...everything was good and tight.:confused:

Was 2000RPM running smooth, or ugly? Did you hear anything that was alarming? Did the exhaust smell different? Did you at least open the motor box to check for any problems? If it was running lumpy, you were in RPM reduction, which is usually from overheating (whether real or because a bad sender tells the ECM it's overheating). If it ever does this, DO NOT keep running it! If it's actually overheating, you can ruin the heads.

Check the impeller and make sure the raw water supply is free of any obstructions.

Squeeze the exhaust hoses- if they're very soft, it was overheating.

JimN
05-29-2013, 09:39 AM
So the Limp Mode makes sense...just need to go down the list of reasons...

Couple things I am going to check based on some searching on this site and comments I received above:

Fuel screen in tank
Fuel filter on back of motor (do not have one above tank but will install soon)
Battery voltage (just got new battery though but hey...)
Cap condition
Rotor condition
Battery cables for heat when boat is running
Anything caught up in the shaft / prop
Thermostat

Seems an MCX had the same issues here:

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=54589&highlight=limp


I was trying to think of the things that happened this weekend...full tank of 91 octane going out on Saturday...3/4 of a tank going out Sunday. So we had enough gas both days.

One thing that I totally forgot was that at the end of the day Sunday, starting the boat almost made it seem like the battery was dead. All we had on at times were the regular radio (no amps, etc) and the blower...

Where can I get a scanner to plug into the LT1?

You can scan for codes with a paper clip if you don't have a scanner. Assuming the check engine light works (you do heck things like this, right?), insert the paper clip into terminals A and B of the DLC at the rear of the engine (rectangular black and gray plastic block with a plastic cap, on the end of a wire bundle, usually near the breaker). Turn the key ON and watch the light flash. It will flash once, pause, then twice- this designates the number 12 will repeat three times before showing any codes, so you'll need to keep watching it. If you see codes (14/15, 21/22), write them all down and either look here or google 'GM trouble codes' to find out what's going on.

Rockman
05-29-2013, 10:27 AM
Thanks Jim, please see below.

Was 2000RPM running smooth, or ugly?

Did you hear anything that was alarming? No, everything was good. Motor sounded very smooth and was not missing or stumbling at all.

Did the exhaust smell different? Nope, good old MC exhaust smell.:)

Did you at least open the motor box to check for any problems? Yep, first thing I did. Check all the hoses, cables, etc. Motor did not seem unusually hot at all. Temp gauge was between 140 and 160 all day. Minimal water in the bilge also...just from run off from our wetsuits.

If it was running lumpy, you were in RPM reduction, which is usually from overheating (whether real or because a bad sender tells the ECM it's overheating). If it ever does this, DO NOT keep running it! If it's actually overheating, you can ruin the heads. No, motor ran smooth, not lumpy. It happened at the beginning of the day (5 minutes after launch) and at the end of the day. Otherwise, boat ran fine all day.

Check the impeller and make sure the raw water supply is free of any obstructions. Will do tonight. Impellar was replaced when we picked up boat out of storage so it is new but I will check for obstructions.

Squeeze the exhaust hoses- if they're very soft, it was overheating. Will do tonight.
.

Rockman
05-29-2013, 10:28 AM
You can scan for codes with a paper clip if you don't have a scanner. Assuming the check engine light works (you do heck things like this, right?), insert the paper clip into terminals A and B of the DLC at the rear of the engine (rectangular black and gray plastic block with a plastic cap, on the end of a wire bundle, usually near the breaker). Turn the key ON and watch the light flash. It will flash once, pause, then twice- this designates the number 12 will repeat three times before showing any codes, so you'll need to keep watching it. If you see codes (14/15, 21/22), write them all down and either look here or google 'GM trouble codes' to find out what's going on.

The check engine light did not come on. I am not 100% sure if the light works but will double check tonight as well.

I am gonna try the paper clip tonight. Thanks!

Ski-me
05-29-2013, 10:51 AM
The check engine light did not come on. I am not 100% sure if the light works but will double check tonight as well.

I am gonna try the paper clip tonight. Thanks!

OK, I'll ask.....where is the check engine light?!?:o

I think my two lights in dash are temp light and "something else". Not check engine light though.

Ski-me
05-29-2013, 10:53 AM
I got a powersports marine at NAPA on 59... I paid a bit more but got it same day...

Definitely a marine alternator... it has a brushes seal away to prevent - sparks...

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=RPS7465PS_0381521553

That one is $250 here..... :confused:

JimN
05-29-2013, 10:53 AM
The check engine light did not come on. I am not 100% sure if the light works but will double check tonight as well.

I am gonna try the paper clip tonight. Thanks!

If the check engine light doesn't work, you can use a test light connected to two of the terminals at the same plug used for the paper clip, but my manual isn't handy, so maybe someone can help out with this.

JimN
05-29-2013, 10:54 AM
OK, I'll ask.....where is the check engine light?!?:o

I think my two lights in dash are temp light and "something else". Not check engine light though.

The other one should be the check engine light- it may be called the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp).

Ski-me
05-29-2013, 10:58 AM
The other one should be the check engine light- it may be called the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp).

Engine Temp and Transmission Temp

Rockman
05-29-2013, 11:06 AM
Engine Temp and Transmission Temp

Yes, that is what I have also...sorry. No check engine light.

JimN
05-29-2013, 11:15 AM
Engine Temp and Transmission Temp

Right- I forgot about the trans temp. I'd bet that a continuity test from the Engine Temp light's terminals to the DLC would show that it connects to terminals A & B. Unfortunately, it's not easy to get to the wires behind the lights.

TxsRiverRat
05-29-2013, 11:23 AM
Engine Temp and Transmission Temp

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=95754&stc=1&d=1369835922




Man, you need some gas!

Ski-me
05-29-2013, 11:55 AM
Man, you need some gas!

The story of my life.....:rolleyes:

Ski-me
05-29-2013, 12:55 PM
I did find the following part numbers for the two stats:

143:
Mercury Marine Part-No: 807252T1
Chrysler inboard Part-No: 4142885
Crusader Part-No: 96319
Indmar Part-No: S985005

160:
Mercury Marine Part-No: 991551
Indmar Part-No: S986034

And the impeller at Napa:
http://m.napaonline.com/parts/PartsList.aspx?k=183306

Rockman
06-02-2013, 02:56 PM
I bought the code mate EFI Code reader Thursday from Michigan Motorz...got it Friday and finally got a chance to look at the boat today.

Computer is throwing a 42 error (Electronic Spark Control).


So where to start!? :confused:

Coil packs
Spark plugs and wires
Alternator

D-All of the above...:rolleyes:

JimN
06-02-2013, 10:44 PM
I bought the code mate EFI Code reader Thursday from Michigan Motorz...got it Friday and finally got a chance to look at the boat today.

Computer is throwing a 42 error (Electronic Spark Control).


So where to start!? :confused:

Coil packs
Spark plugs and wires
Alternator

D-All of the above...:rolleyes:

Did it have a section about what happens if you get a 41 or 42 code? Clear the code(s) and see if anything comes back.

Rockman
06-03-2013, 11:51 AM
Did it have a section about what happens if you get a 41 or 42 code? Clear the code(s) and see if anything comes back.

I am getting access to the manual tonight which has the breakdown of the codes and areas to investigate...

Manual says...Ignition Module or shorted white tan wire...indicates engine will run with reduced power...

BARE5
06-03-2013, 03:00 PM
Take a photo and post to help others someday.

JimN
06-03-2013, 04:06 PM
I am getting access to the manual tonight which has the breakdown of the codes and areas to investigate...

Manual says...Ignition Module or shorted white tan wire...indicates engine will run with reduced power...

Do you have a distributor? If so, you can do some checking before the scanner is connected- look at the screws that hold teh IC module in place- if they're badly corroded, clean them and see if the problem goes away. If not, make sure the base of the distributor and intake manifold are clean- this is where the distributor gets its ground. Also, look for a purple/white wire- this is called Ref Hi and is the tach wire. You would set the multi-meter for AC volts and back-probe the plug (NEVER pierce or cut the insulation. You should see 1-2VAC when you crank or run the engine if the Ref Hi is good. Also, look at the pickup coil- if it has metal shavings all over the pickup, clean it off.

Pretty sure the TPS is still codes 21 and 22.

Rockman
06-03-2013, 04:18 PM
Do you have a distributor? If so, you can do some checking before the scanner is connected- look at the screws that hold teh IC module in place- if they're badly corroded, clean them and see if the problem goes away. If not, make sure the base of the distributor and intake manifold are clean- this is where the distributor gets its ground. Also, look for a purple/white wire- this is called Ref Hi and is the tach wire. You would set the multi-meter for AC volts and back-probe the plug (NEVER pierce or cut the insulation. You should see 1-2VAC when you crank or run the engine if the Ref Hi is good. Also, look at the pickup coil- if it has metal shavings all over the pickup, clean it off.

Pretty sure the TPS is still codes 21 and 22.

Jim,

We have has the individual coil packs...see attached. I will go over these and your suggestions tonight when I get home...thanks for your help!

JimN
06-03-2013, 04:52 PM
Jim,

We have has the individual coil packs...see attached. I will go over these and your suggestions tonight when I get home...thanks for your help!

OK, get in there and look at the crank position sensors. They don't work well if they're too close or too far from the star wheel. They also pick up any metal that's in the area when they're energized. They don't work well through a layer of funk.

cbryan70
06-04-2013, 01:25 AM
Rock come north ski my course.....we can figure it out.....eventually

CantRepeat
06-04-2013, 07:15 AM
I know I'm a little late on this, but maybe it will help.

mikeg205
06-04-2013, 11:16 AM
I know I'm a little late on this, but maybe it will help.

Good one Tim... great info... for trouble shooting

Ski-me
06-04-2013, 12:28 PM
^^^^ +1 Nice post Tim! I hadn't seen that before.

Rockman, hopefully you got your T-stats now. I'd start with installing those, checking impellar, checking heat exchanger and then run through Tim's sheet. Hopefully this will finally be a thing of the past!

Rockman
06-04-2013, 12:38 PM
Tim, thanks for the help!

I will be going thru all the items tonight...got out of work later than norm yesterday and did not have a chance to look at everything last night.

Appreciate all the feedback and help I have gotten from everyone...once I find the issue and get it fixed, I will let everyone what it is was and how to correct if anyone experiences the same issue.

jmhjgh
06-04-2013, 12:47 PM
You stated you checked the output of your alternator, but one more easy check is to see if your alternator is putting out any AC voltage. That will cause some weird problems with sensors.

CantRepeat
06-04-2013, 04:11 PM
Sorry, I should have included the MEFI2 pinouts too. It might make it a little easier doing the test.

For the rest of you LT1 guys I'll go through all my files and upload them.

Might be nice if someone with the keys to this place increased the PDF attachment size to say 5 or 10 megs. I could attach all of the manuals too.

Rockman
06-07-2013, 02:24 AM
Alright, update after I had a few hours tonight to go over some things...

I traced the white and tan wire from the ICM back as far as I could follow it and no issues with the wire itself. This was what the manual noted as being a possible problem for error code 42...a short or open circuit.

I pulled as many electrical harnesses and cleaned all connections and re-installed.

One or two connections I found were loose so I sanded down and cleaned the O rings and tightened them up.

I removed each of the 4 coil packs and cleaned all the terminals and any metal components on the ICM. Replaced all coil packs. They were somewhat dirty but nothing surprising.

I replaced all 8 plugs. Old plugs looked bad...all wires seem to be in good shape though.

I replaced the T Stat (160 degrees) and O ring on the top of the motor just under the air filter / flame arrestor and also the T Stat (143 degrees) just above the impellar (along with new gastket). Both old T Stats were terrible. Is this correct that the 160 goes on top? The old T Stats were so bad I could make out any markings on them.

I also installed a new water temp sensor. The old one looked to have been the original.

No other wires seems to have been bad or had any bad connections.

Tomorrow I plan on resetting the code reader and on Saturday running the boat on the hose in the drive way and then see if any codes come back.

I did not check the voltage out of the alternator yet as I do not believe at this point that the alternator was the cause of the rpm reduction mode...but I could be wrong.



Thanks for everyone's input and ideas thus far...I will keep everyone updated as to what happens next.

JimN
06-07-2013, 08:03 AM
Alright, update after I had a few hours tonight to go over some things...

I traced the white and tan wire from the ICM back as far as I could follow it and no issues with the wire itself. This was what the manual noted as being a possible problem for error code 42...a short or open circuit.

I pulled as many electrical harnesses and cleaned all connections and re-installed.

One or two connections I found were loose so I sanded down and cleaned the O rings and tightened them up.

I removed each of the 4 coil packs and cleaned all the terminals and any metal components on the ICM. Replaced all coil packs. They were somewhat dirty but nothing surprising.

I replaced all 8 plugs. Old plugs looked bad...all wires seem to be in good shape though.

I replaced the T Stat (160 degrees) and O ring on the top of the motor just under the air filter / flame arrestor and also the T Stat (143 degrees) just above the impellar (along with new gastket). Both old T Stats were terrible. Is this correct that the 160 goes on top? The old T Stats were so bad I could make out any markings on them.

I also installed a new water temp sensor. The old one looked to have been the original.

No other wires seems to have been bad or had any bad connections.

Tomorrow I plan on resetting the code reader and on Saturday running the boat on the hose in the drive way and then see if any codes come back.

I did not check the voltage out of the alternator yet as I do not believe at this point that the alternator was the cause of the rpm reduction mode...but I could be wrong.



Thanks for everyone's input and ideas thus far...I will keep everyone updated as to what happens next.

You could test the thermostats- put a sauce pan on the stove and heat the water to about 150 degrees, then put the thermostat with the hole(s) in the water. If it doesn't open, it's the most likely cause. Raise the temperature to about 170 degrees and see if the first thermostat opens. If not, it definitely has a problem. Put the other thermostat in and see if it opens. If not, it needed to be replaced.

Rockman
06-07-2013, 08:13 AM
Jim,

The 160 degree T Stat goes on top, correct?

CantRepeat
06-07-2013, 09:16 AM
Here ya go.

Rockman
06-07-2013, 10:27 AM
Here ya go.

Thank you!:)

Ski-me
06-07-2013, 10:27 AM
Jim,

The 160 degree T Stat goes on top, correct?

Yes, the 160 is on top, the 143 is in the lower triangle (See Tim's pdf on cooling). Be sure you have a hole drilled in the 160 stat, too.

It really sounds like you've done a ton of work! I'm sure this will fix it! Good luck tomorrow.... :cool:

Rockman
06-07-2013, 10:56 AM
Yes, the 160 is on top, the 143 is in the lower triangle (See Tim's pdf on cooling). Be sure you have a hole drilled in the 160 stat, too.

It really sounds like you've done a ton of work! I'm sure this will fix it! Good luck tomorrow.... :cool:

I ordered the parts from Skidim and made sure the descriptions were correct on the T Stats...I have to double check about the hole though...I remember you mentioning it before but I do not recall seeing it...hmmmm...

This is what I ordered...

98-6034 T-STAT LT1 160
FPG35710 O'RING SEAL, T-STAT HOUSING LT1
R026002E THERMOSTAT 143 DEGREE
98-5006 GASKET, T-STAT COVER NMR
R020019 SENDER, WATER TEMP EFI, PCM/INDMAR

Ski-me
06-07-2013, 11:09 AM
^^^^ looks like the right ones....

Rockman
06-08-2013, 09:41 PM
Update...not good...ugh!

I cleared the cide reader according to the directions and pulled the boat in the drive.

Hooked up the hose directly to the boat today (no fake a lake) and started the engine.

Engine sounded good, no issues...after a few minutes, I saw the temp gauge slowly climb up...and made its way to 180, so I shut it down. I am thinking the engine temp got high due to possible low water pressure.

I hooked up the code reader again and did the diagnostic steps...damn 42 code is still here!:rant:

So, put all the tools away and gonna grab a beer to get my blood pressure down a bit...;)

I am gonna put the boat in at the river tomorrow and see if the temp issue is still there and also see if the boat goes back in limp mode...

Not sure what else I can do besides running the boat up to the dealer this week and see if their computer says anything.


I did manage to hook up the hot/cold shower this afternoon while I had the motor box out of the boat...but I did not have the shower opened up at all so that cannot be part of the problem.

JimN
06-08-2013, 11:28 PM
Update...not good...ugh!

I cleared the cide reader according to the directions and pulled the boat in the drive.

Hooked up the hose directly to the boat today (no fake a lake) and started the engine.

Engine sounded good, no issues...after a few minutes, I saw the temp gauge slowly climb up...and made its way to 180, so I shut it down. I am thinking the engine temp got high due to possible low water pressure.

I hooked up the code reader again and did the diagnostic steps...damn 42 code is still here!:rant:

So, put all the tools away and gonna grab a beer to get my blood pressure down a bit...;)

I am gonna put the boat in at the river tomorrow and see if the temp issue is still there and also see if the boat goes back in limp mode...

Not sure what else I can do besides running the boat up to the dealer this week and see if their computer says anything.


I did manage to hook up the hot/cold shower this afternoon while I had the motor box out of the boat...but I did not have the shower opened up at all so that cannot be part of the problem.

Clear it several times before starting the engine. Then, scan for codes and see if it's gone.

Rockman
06-08-2013, 11:29 PM
Thanks Jim, I will do that before we leave the house in the am.

Ski-me
06-08-2013, 11:52 PM
Dang dude, sorry to here. Hope Jim's solution works. Did you put the boat in neutral and rev it a few times? That made pull the temperature down.

Rockman
06-09-2013, 11:23 PM
Well, today was an eventful day. :rolleyes:

Got the boat hooked up to the trailer, reset the code reader 5 times, packed up our gear and headed to the river. Sunny skies and 75 degrees at 9:15am. Had half of a tank of Shell 91 from last weekend and topped off with BP 89.

Get to the river, parking lot is empty and ramps are open...couple people already out on the river...back the truck down the ramp, hit the blower, go to start the boat...and it will not start! Cranking and cranking and not wanting to start. Popped the engine cover and all looked well. Pump sounded like it was kicking on when turning the key...:confused: Battery was getting weak after cranking about 10 or more times...

Pulled the boat out and stopped up in the parking lot. Tried starting a few more times and it would not start. Waitied about 10 minutes and tried again and it started.

So back to ramp we go...this time, everything went smoothly. Go the fly high and board up and boom on and idled for about 15 minutes...temp gauge at 160...awesome, oil pressure good, battery volts good...ok, maybe it was fludded...

Go to give it some gas and all seemed well, then it just bogged down and died. Would not start at all. Battery seemed strong so the alternator was doing its job at least. Got towed back to the dock and pulled it out. Dropped gear off at house and dropped boat off at Eric's BoatHouse in Prairie Grove. Just the made the 3pm deadline to get the boat in the locked yard.

Am I so ever p'd off right now...spent the entire week going through everything and was almost positive I trouble-shot the issue from last week....not sure if this is going to be a fuel pump issue, a clogged screen issue or what.

So, took the family out for a late lunch, got home mowed the lawn and sat on the deck for an hour. Kids were upset that they did not go skiing or tubing but they both gave me hugs and said "Uncle Erkle will fix the boat this week so we can out next week"...I just smiled and gave them a big hug. :)

So, the saga continues...thought this "project" boat was more cosmetic but hope that still is the case...more to come...ugh!

TOO-TALL
06-09-2013, 11:53 PM
Bummer dude.Hope you get it back quick.
If there is one thing that really pisses me off more then anything its boat troubles.

JimN
06-10-2013, 12:19 AM
Did you ever look at the crank position sensors, as I mentioned?

Rockman
06-10-2013, 09:08 AM
Jim, yes. But from I could tell, they looked fine.

But fine to me and fine to you may be two different things as you have way more experience than I do on these things.

I actuallu had to google this to see what is looks like and where it was...shop manual did not show it.

CantRepeat
06-10-2013, 10:56 AM
Were there any new codes after the failed attempts to run it?

Rockman
06-10-2013, 11:23 AM
Were there any new codes after the failed attempts to run it?

Tim, I did not even check...I felt useless on the way home yesterday as I put in a number of hours last week and thought I had it nailed and then more issues just added to the fire...just made the decision to take it in.

This way, it can be put on a real computer and program to see what it going on and I can at least get caught up with things at the house this week that I have blown off last week.

CantRepeat
06-10-2013, 11:32 AM
Tim, I did not even check...I felt useless on the way home yesterday as I put in a number of hours last week and thought I had it nailed and then more issues just added to the fire...just made the decision to take it in.

This way, it can be put on a real computer and program to see what it going on and I can at least get caught up with things at the house this week that I have blown off last week.

Right on. Well, hopefully it doesn't turn out to be anything too serious or costly.

Gofast
06-10-2013, 11:56 AM
One other thing to check....Long shot, but it happend to my 95 boat. Make sure the exhaust hoses have not broken down on the inside. On mine they looked new on the outside, but the hose had split inside and was partially blocking the exhaust.

I had very similar symptons and there is a thread on here somewhere about what I went threw 4 years or so back. Limp mode, checking fuel pressure, checking thermostats etc. Took several weeks to get it sorted out.

So I would recomend, kust pulling the exhaust hose from the maniold and checking to see if it is obstructed.

That's all I got. Good luck.

Rob

cbryan70
06-10-2013, 12:15 PM
"uncle Erkle" classic. He should get you back on the water quick hopfully.

CantRepeat
06-12-2013, 11:21 AM
Any news?

Rockman
06-12-2013, 12:19 PM
Update from Erk last night...

Replaced fuel filter (much needed) but fuel pump is toasted. So that should take care of the starting issue. Ordered yesterday...

Once that is fixed, they will dig into the error code(s) and see what is going on and take it out on the river for further testing.

Table Rocker
06-20-2013, 10:49 PM
Okay Rockman, it's time for another update. Any news on your 190?

Rockman
06-21-2013, 10:57 AM
Well, the fuel pump was out of stock from Indmar and they shipped it as soon as they were able to track one down. Should be at the shop today.


I sat out on the deck the other night and was going through the entire motor and everything I cleaned and replaced, etc.

One thing came to mind and after look thru the manual, there is one clip that was missing a "boot" just above the coil packs. The connection was firm but this may be causing the short. I wll wait to see what the shop computer comes back with as a code.

The question is...what part will I need to correct this problem..I will post a pic of the area in question at lunch time...got CPR training at work this am.

Gonna be 90 here this weekend...hoping my baby gets home soon! ;)

JimN
06-21-2013, 11:02 AM
Well, the fuel pump was out of stock from Indmar and they shipped it as soon as they were able to track one down. Should be at the shop today.


I sat out on the deck the other night and was going through the entire motor and everything I cleaned and replaced, etc.

One thing came to mind and after look thru the manual, there is one clip that was missing a "boot" just above the coil packs. The connection was firm but this may be causing the short. I wll wait to see what the shop computer comes back with as a code.

The question is...what part will I need to correct this problem..I will post a pic of the area in question at lunch time...got CPR training at work this am.

Gonna be 90 here this weekend...hoping my baby gets home soon! ;)

New York Life saving techniques?

In case you don't know what that is, it's when someone sees another person on the ground and walks over, kicks them and says "Get up, before you effin' die!".

Table Rocker
06-21-2013, 11:09 AM
Thanks for the update, good luck!

On the fuel pump, everything looks like they are going to be harder and harder to obtain. I don't think Carter is making them anymore.

Rockman
06-21-2013, 02:32 PM
New York Life saving techniques?

In case you don't know what that is, it's when someone sees another person on the ground and walks over, kicks them and says "Get up, before you effin' die!".

Yes, walk up to the guy lying on the ground and ask if you can help? If he doesn't respond, just keep walking. :cool:

Rockman
06-21-2013, 02:34 PM
Alright, here is the page with the boot I was thinking may be the issue...

JimN
06-21-2013, 03:19 PM
Yes, walk up to the guy lying on the ground and ask if you can help? If he doesn't respond, just keep walking. :cool:

"Fine! Suit yerself!, y*$*#(&*)%(#_$(' @(@*$(&(!"

Ski-me
06-22-2013, 03:15 PM
Rock, I hope this fixes it for you. It'll be fixed before out know it and this will be a faded memory!

I made my two day drive to Idaho and the refurb trailller was awesome. Not one issue....so whatever I did, it was good. Lake was glass last night but too late to ski.

Rockman
06-22-2013, 06:30 PM
Haven't heard back on the pump yet. Suppose to be 90 today and tomorrow.:mad:

Glad the trailer turned out well!

Rockman
06-27-2013, 05:54 PM
Update...fuel pump replaced and new filter and boat started right up. :D

ECM terminal (see pic in previous posts) looks like it was either broken off or burned somehow from PO. Connections were made as tight as possible and no issues to note.

Will be picking up boat tomorrow! :banana:



New ECM would be around $1,200 or so (I think)...so need to track down a used one or after market if possible. If any has any leads or suggestion, please let me know.

JimN
06-27-2013, 06:24 PM
Update...fuel pump replaced and new filter and boat started right up. :D

ECM terminal (see pic in previous posts) looks like it was either broken off or burned somehow from PO. Connections were made as tight as possible and no issues to note.

Will be picking up boat tomorrow! :banana:



New ECM would be around $1,200 or so (I think)...so need to track down a used one or after market if possible. If any has any leads or suggestion, please let me know.

You mean the module with the coil packs that has a blue circle around it? That's not the ECM, it's the IC (Ignition Control) module.

Rockman
06-28-2013, 12:37 AM
You mean the module with the coil packs that has a blue circle around it? That's not the ECM, it's the IC (Ignition Control) module.

Yes Jim, the IC...sorry, was thinking one thing and typing another.

JimN
06-28-2013, 08:10 AM
Yes Jim, the IC...sorry, was thinking one thing and typing another.

I don't remember seeing such a high price for the IC module.

Rockman
06-28-2013, 08:56 AM
I don't remember seeing such a high price for the IC module.

I have to check around...for some reason I thought the price of that was really high. Eric thought it was around that price too.

CantRepeat
06-28-2013, 08:59 AM
So the fuel pump fixed it or are you still having issues because of the IAC?

Rockman
06-28-2013, 02:15 PM
So the fuel pump fixed it or are you still having issues because of the IAC?

What started out as one issue then turned into two issues..

1-Fuel pump and filter were replaced so that took care of the non start issue...

2-They tightened the connection of the harness to the IC as best as possible so that should take care of the Code Issue for now...hoping to track down a new IC in the new future.

I am picking up the boat this afternoon and hope to get out tomorrow or Sunday depending on the weather.

Table Rocker
07-10-2013, 09:54 PM
Are you back running strong?

Rockman
07-11-2013, 10:56 AM
We had alot going on (family and work) since we got the boat back and sad thing is we have not had it out yet...:mad:

We are heading out this weekend and will know for sure if everything is a go.

Everything worked fine up at the shop so I am confident that the pump and connection issue have been fixed.

I have checked a number of sites to get the replacement part that the coil packs connect to so hope we can get thru this season with the fix as-is and replace in the off season.

Table Rocker
07-12-2013, 01:10 PM
That's good news, hopefully all is well.

You might be able to find the ignition module at a salvage yard. eBay has used ones for $60. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-Cadillac-Concours-Northstar-4-6L-4-0L-IGNITION-COIL-CONTROL-MODULE-/110588427488?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item19bf957ce0)
In this thread, one was picked up at NAPA for close to $300. (http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=955305&postcount=19)

$200 @ O'Reilly (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BWD0/CBE43/02801.oap?year=1995&make=Cadillac&model=Eldorado&vi=1026267&ck=Search_ignition+module_02801_1026267_4075&keyword=ignition+module&pt=02801&ppt=C0334)

Rockman
07-12-2013, 02:03 PM
Thanks TR,

May have to swing by O'Reilly's by the house and pick that up...

JimN
07-12-2013, 07:16 PM
Thanks TR,

May have to swing by O'Reilly's by the house and pick that up...

Make sure you have the correct part number for this- they used two different ones, one from Motorola and IIRC the other was from Delphi.

Rockman
07-14-2013, 12:52 PM
Well, we took the boat out yesterday, got down to the river about 10:30am and dropped it in at Morris. Parking lot was not too crowded and ramps were good.

Boat started right up and sounded stronger than ever.

We set up all our gear and bimini top and took some footin runs while the water was flat. Boat was very reponsive to throttle movement. So I am not sure if the fix to the wire harness or the new fuel pump but it was like driving a new boat. Took a few slalom runs in between the barge traffic.;)

We dropped anchor at the beach where the kids went swimming and the adults actually got to sit and enjoy the warm weather.

Kids were hungry so we hauled a$$ all the way west to Senenca and stopped at a Marina bar and grill down there. Saw the Blue and White X30 and met the owner. Very nice guy. JD had to go to the bathroom at the resturant REALLY bad so I was only to talk to other MC owner for a few minutes. Hope to meet up with him again on the river soon. Very nice boat.

We watched a guy waste about 10 gallons of gas trying to park his 37 foot cig boat...that was funny as hell. :rolleyes: All the biker guys at the reataurant were like "What a DB!"


Headed back east and took the kiddos tubing and called it a day at about 6:30pm.


So the rpm issue is fixed for now and now just need to rack up some more hours on the boat. We are on vacation starting Friday so need to get a few things done to the boat and then we can have some fun.


Thanks Erk for the shop help and every on the board here for your help as well! Great board, great peeps!

Rockman
07-14-2013, 12:53 PM
Make sure you have the correct part number for this- they used two different ones, one from Motorola and IIRC the other was from Delphi.

Jim, I will check. Which one is the correct one? I would imagine the Delphi bu will confirm.