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View Full Version : What NOT to do when installing ballast!!


CantRepeat
05-22-2013, 11:36 AM
I would normally not post this, but this video has so many things you should not do when installing a ballast system.

I can imagine a lot of ways to install ballast systems and then I can imagine things not to so.

1. Don't take water from the engine to fill ballast, ever. It just screams bad things. I don't care if you shut the engine off to use the water source.

2. Don't use non brass valves and fittings below the water line.

3. Never plumb a system that does not have a shut off valve at the hull level. IE through hull straight to a shut off source(brass valve). It's a Coast Guard requirement for a reason.

4. Don't run hoses, or anything for that matter, that might interfere with your steering!! Have you ever seen that video of the boat that can't turn and runs into the grand stands at a water show?

5. Do not leave a jointed electrical connections close to the waterline!

I'm sure we could go on and on and I'm not trying to hammer on the guy, I'll leave that to wake world, but really. Think about what you are doing and make sure safety is your first thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4xj6DlKW-w

88 PS190
05-22-2013, 11:48 AM
One recommendation as well - standard of practice to have a tapered bung the right size to "plug" your through hulls is a great practice in case you have a failure in the plumbing and a through hull valve that won't seal. It is therefore advisable to be able to "plug" the through hull, and folks who sail will have tapered wood bungs tied to the fittings to have it ready to go.

mwg
05-22-2013, 04:39 PM
I would be hesitant to install a check valve on the discharge side of a bilge pump because of the potential for the valve to fail closed.

willg
06-10-2013, 12:34 AM
Whats the legal side of non-brass valves below the waterline (ie can the coast guard hassle me)? The factory ballast in my boat has all plastic apart from the actual thru-hull fitting for the ballast. And it does not have a seacock on the engine water intake...

46Chief
06-10-2013, 01:36 AM
I've seen several Mastercraft OEM installs with a plastic on off valve, protected under the floor. PVC properly installed is fairly reliable.

Stefan
06-10-2013, 05:06 AM
MC nowadays uses these Forespar OEM Valves (http://www.forespar.com/OEM-Valves.shtml#fragment-2)

CantRepeat
06-10-2013, 07:12 AM
I've seen several Mastercraft OEM installs with a plastic on off valve, protected under the floor. PVC properly installed is fairly reliable.

What year and model Mastercraft did you see OEM non brass thru hull shut off valves on?

Stefan
06-10-2013, 07:38 AM
What year and model Mastercraft did you see OEM non brass thru hull shut off valves on?

Mine, a 2012 X-15, for cooling and ballast intakes. On a side note,Forespar also has a long list of other premium boat manufacturers using their products, for whatever that means...

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=839&pictureid=5359
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=839&pictureid=5360

GoneBoatN
06-10-2013, 11:02 AM
What year and model Mastercraft did you see OEM non brass thru hull shut off valves on?

Mine, a 2012 X-15, for cooling and ballast intakes. On a side note,Forespar also has a long list of other premium boat manufacturers using their products, for whatever that means...

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=839&pictureid=5359
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=839&pictureid=5360

Same for my 2010 X-15.

CantRepeat
06-10-2013, 11:04 AM
Well, that is news to me. I've never seen them before. Clearly the new boats use them and I'm wrong.

On the other hand, they are not the standard pvc shut off valves used in that video. I'm sure there's been some major testing done on them and had to be approved for use below the water line.

edit


Forespar® "93" series of valves and thru-hull fittings meet all design criteria and exceed all mechanical property requirements specified by the international standards organization (ISO 150/188) "small craft-seacocks and thru-hull fittings-part 2: Non-metallic"


Not just some run of the mill home depot pvc valves.

HartlandX1
06-10-2013, 11:10 AM
2007 X1 has the same

CantRepeat
06-10-2013, 11:14 AM
2007 X1 has the same

My 06 is all brass.

XtwentyNot
06-10-2013, 11:21 AM
Mine, a 2012 X-15, for cooling and ballast intakes. On a side note,Forespar also has a long list of other premium boat manufacturers using their products, for whatever that means...

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=839&pictureid=5359
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=839&pictureid=5360

Those valves are $100 each vs a $20 brass valve. You can see how they go up and over $100k when every piece is 3-5x more then another piece that would work fine.

Stefan
06-10-2013, 11:42 AM
Well, that is news to me. I've never seen them before. Clearly the new boats use them and I'm wrong.

I'm not braggin' 'bout it, how could you know...

CantRepeat
06-10-2013, 11:48 AM
I'm not braggin' 'bout it, how could you know...

Clearly you weren't and I was not implying you were but you gotta admit when you are wrong. I think its the first rule of MCOCD. :D

Stefan
06-10-2013, 12:26 PM
:) :) :)

FlyHighorDie
06-10-2013, 01:45 PM
What year and model Mastercraft did you see OEM non brass thru hull shut off valves on?

My 03 x-9 has one.
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=53412&page=2

JRW160
06-10-2013, 01:49 PM
My 03 x-9 has one.
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=53412&page=2
My 2003 X-2 has the same pvc setup.

CantRepeat
06-10-2013, 01:55 PM
Just as a heads-up to anyone else that might come across this post.

These valves are not standar pvc, they are MARELON. Do not confuse these with off the self pvc valves from Home Depot.

These valves and been put through the Coast Gaurd Fire Test and carry a U.L. and A.B.Y.C. approved below water line certification.

Very strange that folks have them in 03 and 02 model years when my 06 is full brass OEM. I wonder why the change.

CantRepeat
06-10-2013, 02:01 PM
My 03 x-9 has one.
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=53412&page=2

That is NOT the same valve at all. You have the off the shelf home depot valve that the first video has in and not the Forespar Marelon valve. That is not an OEM setup at all.

I'd suggest you change those out for brass.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=922351&postcount=16

CantRepeat
06-10-2013, 02:02 PM
My 2003 X-2 has the same pvc setup.

If it is the same valve from his thread then you too do not have right valve and should change them out for brass.

JRW160
06-10-2013, 02:14 PM
That is NOT the same valve at all. You have the off the shelf home depot valve that the first video has in and not the Forespar Marelon valve. That is not an OEM setup at all.

I'd suggest you change those out for brass.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=922351&postcount=16
That is OEM. I have the same setup in mine. It looks just like this:

CantRepeat
06-10-2013, 02:17 PM
Well, live and learn. If that is OEM they were changed for a reason and I'd bet it's Coast Guard failure.

jigster
06-24-2013, 09:55 AM
Unfortunately, it is definitely is OEM. :(

My '03 X-10 had the same garbage on it. Making the situation even worse is that not one of the first, second, third, and fourth fittings/hose after the thru-hull are a shut-off. It goes from a brass thru-hull to a 90* PVC elbow, to a plastic bard fitting adaptor, to a short piece of hose with a worm gear hose clamp on both end, to another barb fitting adaptor before you finally reach a shut-off, which is also PVC. Even if you remove the poor choice of materials, you are still left with a design that is inherently flawed as is leaves mutliple sources of potential failures before coming to the shut-off.

Oh yeah, and there is no shut off on the raw water intake for my engine either. I'll be addressing that this winter. :D

Not sure how MC got away with this, but it appears from what you are saying that somebody (whether customer complints, Coast Guard cracking down, or some other source) convinced them to pony up and do this properly. I still can't believe that given the option they skimped on something so basic, especially considering the amount of risk that could've been avoided for such a minimal additional cost relative to the overall build price of a boat. Don't get me wrong, I still love my boat, but this is yet another one of the many unfortunate flaws I found over time in areas that are typically out of sight, out of mind for most.

FlyHighorDie
06-24-2013, 11:33 PM
That is OEM. I have the same setup in mine. It looks just like this:

I have over looked this setup. I pushed and pulled, it would need a lot of force to break that PVC. I wouldn't have done an install like this but it does the job. BTW, The piece going through the hull is brass, if that was the main concern. My boat is a X-9 wakeboard edition so I am really expecting that this is factory and Mastercraft may shop at Home Depot for their PVC.