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89mastercraft
05-20-2013, 05:25 PM
Hello All..

I'm looking for someone who mad have had the same problem I am going through. For the second Summer in a row my boat will not hot start.

It's a 1993 Mastercraft Prostar 190

- 351 indmar engine
- New plugs
- New wires
- Ordering a new distributor cap today
- Holley carburetor

The boat runs and drives fine on initial start up, but once it has ran if you cut it off.. it will NOT start back up.

Any help is HIGHLY appreciated. Thanks guys!

thatsmrmastercraft
05-20-2013, 05:48 PM
You have some of the basics taken care of. Here are a few more to work through:

1. Replace the dist. rotor too.
2. Battery connections should all be cleaned, have a little dielectric grease applied and reconnected.
3. Verify that the timing is set to spec.
4. Fuel quality can come into play here. If you are not going through your tank on a bi-weekly basis, adding Stabil or similar will make a difference.
5. Change fuel filter and water seperator filter.
6. Thoroughly clean spark arrestor.

If all these things don't resolve the issue, I would have the battery and starter tested. If those both check out, it is probably time for a carb rebuild.

89mastercraft
05-20-2013, 06:15 PM
You have some of the basics taken care of. Here are a few more to work through:

1. Replace the dist. rotor too.
2. Battery connections should all be cleaned, have a little dielectric grease applied and reconnected.
3. Verify that the timing is set to spec.
4. Fuel quality can come into play here. If you are not going through your tank on a bi-weekly basis, adding Stabil or similar will make a difference.
5. Change fuel filter and water seperator filter.
6. Thoroughly clean spark arrestor.

If all these things don't resolve the issue, I would have the battery and starter tested. If those both check out, it is probably time for a carb rebuild.

The highest octane we have available around my area is 93 and I always use that, but I will add some fuel stabilizer.

Battery terminals are clean and good to go.

What is factory timing?

Where is the spark arrestor located, also the water separator filter?

Thanks. I just wanna get this thing running right and have a good time this summer... Two years in a row I have had this issue

ricford
05-20-2013, 06:38 PM
If I had to guess, I would start with the carb/fuel filters. Sounds like a gas issue to me. You may not have a water separator filter, my 96 does not. The spark arrestor, or flame arrestor, is on top of the carb, looks like an air filter. Search the threads for rebuilding your Holley carb.

ricford
05-20-2013, 06:40 PM
The water separator looks like an oil filter but it will be mounted to the side of the engine bay. You could try running some seafoam through the fuel system. Worked wonders on a rough running seadoo I had.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-20-2013, 06:43 PM
The highest octane we have available around my area is 93 and I always use that, but I will add some fuel stabilizer.

Battery terminals are clean and good to go.

What is factory timing?

Where is the spark arrestor located, also the water separator filter?

Thanks. I just wanna get this thing running right and have a good time this summer... Two years in a row I have had this issue

10 BTDC is base factory timing setting

Does the boat crank slow when hot hence the no start or does it crank normal just does not fire off? Look at the back two barrels of the carburetor when hot and see if fuel is dripping. Might be time to rebuild the carburetor.

ncgreg
05-20-2013, 09:00 PM
Lots o good advise here. Lots of possibilities, so you basically are going to have to figure out if you are geting spark when this developes or if it is a fuel flooding or lean out issue. Next time out when it acts up, take a spare spark plug or spark gap tester, hook it up, ground it, try starting it while you are watching for spark. If you have it, it is not ignition, start looking for fuel issues.

Before ya shut it off, let it idle for several minutes, and watch/smell the exhaust. If it is thinking about flooding out you will see black soot in the water or smell CO.

Couple comments, you likely have a 4010 holly and the floats are prone to cracking in that carb which eventually will cause them to sink. When that happens you will get mild to severe flooding and no way will it start. Watch the downturned carb venturi pipes, verify there is no raw gas coming out running ino the carb throat. If so, check the needle valvs and floats for cracks. Floats cost $28 each from Holly, dont ask why I know. Also check nothing is causing the choke to be on.

Another simple thing to check is the pcv valve. When they go bad, some times they leak, sometimes they dont and when they are leaking will cause lean rough running condtion that has you pumping the throttle a bit or hard starting. Check it by blocking the suction line, to see if idle improves.
Good luck!

east tx skier
05-20-2013, 09:31 PM
If you have the stock dual feed Holley 4010 carb, replace it with a 4160 and your hot stall poor idle issues will be a thing of the past. Been there. Professional rebuild did nothing to alleviate it for me. New 4160 was the ticket.

cal69
05-21-2013, 11:55 AM
This does sound fuel related and yes, the 4010 Holley is not the best performing. I just made the switch to a 4160 and am happy so far.
Another thing to check is the spark. I chased a cut out and no-restart condition when I bought my boat last year. Thought it was surely fuel, rebuilt the carb and it did not change. Would cut out after running for 30-60 minutes and not restart until it sat for 20 mins. Figured out it was a bad coil after it stalled and when I put my hand on the coil it burned me. Cooled it down and the boat immediately restarted. Replaced coil and has been perfect since. Just something to consider.

cbryan70
05-21-2013, 12:01 PM
Is the choke working properly? Once hot see where the choke flap is. Is it open or closed. Once hot it should be open I beleive.

My boat is odd and when its hot and wont start I will sometimes have to close the choke to get it fired up.

89mastercraft
05-22-2013, 12:50 AM
If I had to guess, I would start with the carb/fuel filters. Sounds like a gas issue to me. You may not have a water separator filter, my 96 does not. The spark arrestor, or flame arrestor, is on top of the carb, looks like an air filter. Search the threads for rebuilding your Holley carb.

The water separator looks like an oil filter but it will be mounted to the side of the engine bay. You could try running some seafoam through the fuel system. Worked wonders on a rough running seadoo I had.

10 BTDC is base factory timing setting

Does the boat crank slow when hot hence the no start or does it crank normal just does not fire off? Look at the back two barrels of the carburetor when hot and see if fuel is dripping. Might be time to rebuild the carburetor.

Lots o good advise here. Lots of possibilities, so you basically are going to have to figure out if you are geting spark when this developes or if it is a fuel flooding or lean out issue. Next time out when it acts up, take a spare spark plug or spark gap tester, hook it up, ground it, try starting it while you are watching for spark. If you have it, it is not ignition, start looking for fuel issues.

Before ya shut it off, let it idle for several minutes, and watch/smell the exhaust. If it is thinking about flooding out you will see black soot in the water or smell CO.

Couple comments, you likely have a 4010 holly and the floats are prone to cracking in that carb which eventually will cause them to sink. When that happens you will get mild to severe flooding and no way will it start. Watch the downturned carb venturi pipes, verify there is no raw gas coming out running ino the carb throat. If so, check the needle valvs and floats for cracks. Floats cost $28 each from Holly, dont ask why I know. Also check nothing is causing the choke to be on.

Another simple thing to check is the pcv valve. When they go bad, some times they leak, sometimes they dont and when they are leaking will cause lean rough running condtion that has you pumping the throttle a bit or hard starting. Check it by blocking the suction line, to see if idle improves.
Good luck!

If you have the stock dual feed Holley 4010 carb, replace it with a 4160 and your hot stall poor idle issues will be a thing of the past. Been there. Professional rebuild did nothing to alleviate it for me. New 4160 was the ticket.

This does sound fuel related and yes, the 4010 Holley is not the best performing. I just made the switch to a 4160 and am happy so far.
Another thing to check is the spark. I chased a cut out and no-restart condition when I bought my boat last year. Thought it was surely fuel, rebuilt the carb and it did not change. Would cut out after running for 30-60 minutes and not restart until it sat for 20 mins. Figured out it was a bad coil after it stalled and when I put my hand on the coil it burned me. Cooled it down and the boat immediately restarted. Replaced coil and has been perfect since. Just something to consider.

Is the choke working properly? Once hot see where the choke flap is. Is it open or closed. Once hot it should be open I beleive.

My boat is odd and when its hot and wont start I will sometimes have to close the choke to get it fired up.


The engine has the replacement 4160 carburetor, but the 4 barrel is not working right now. (not hooked up because the bracket on the throttle linkage is different)

There is zero raw gas dripping...

After running for 20-30 minutes when trying to hot start, the engine just turns over slow like the battery is weak, but it's obviously not?

Later on in the day trying to restart it, it cranks fast and normal and usually starts right up.

As far as the choke goes it is open when trying to start, so you are suggesting trying to close the choke while hot starting?

NWMike
05-22-2013, 03:28 AM
Based on your last comment, wondering if you have a corroded lead to your starter or to ground creating too much resistance. If you have electronic ignition, this condition could be pulling your voltage down enough to not create a spark. If standard ign., guessing starter. All my starters over the years have died a slow death until it was turning over too slow.

BARE5
05-22-2013, 07:41 AM
You need compression, spark and fuel to start an engine. Simple 3

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-22-2013, 08:08 AM
The engine has the replacement 4160 carburetor, but the 4 barrel is not working right now. (not hooked up because the bracket on the throttle linkage is different)

There is zero raw gas dripping...

After running for 20-30 minutes when trying to hot start, the engine just turns over slow like the battery is weak, but it's obviously not?

Later on in the day trying to restart it, it cranks fast and normal and usually starts right up.

As far as the choke goes it is open when trying to start, so you are suggesting trying to close the choke while hot starting?

choke is not going to cause a slow crank, Check for voltage drops, corrosion, loose connections in battery cables, if all good you likely have a starter motor failing, swapping out to a high torque starter fixes most of these issues. Lots of folks here have done just that...

Double D
05-22-2013, 08:32 AM
I was going to throw out fuel vapor lock but that wouldn't make is crank slow either....

89mastercraft
05-27-2013, 03:06 PM
Sorry for the late response.. We had a chance to work on the boat a little yesterday

I went through and cleaned the battery terminals, starter lead and put some dielectric grease on everything and installed a new distributor cap... I even thought it could be an issue with the starter getting too hot so we took it off and wrapped it in heat wrap.

We hooked it up to the water in the driveway, the boat started right up.. let it run a bit

We to try and restart it.... slow crank, will NOT start once again. Tried closing the choke didn't make a difference

I did take a voltmeter and monitor the battery voltage, voltage at the starter and coil.. while turned off, while running and then while slow cranking..

I am going back to the boat and I will get the piece of paper and post those #'s ASAP.

I don't understand how it could be the starter.. we have put two different starters on it from Advance auto parts granted they are made in mexico and it's done it with both of them

89mastercraft
05-27-2013, 03:07 PM
One thing i will mention i was unable to find a ground on the block? Where would it be located? any help is appreciated

Cloaked
05-27-2013, 04:52 PM
One thing i will mention i was unable to find a ground on the block? Where would it be located? any help is appreciatedBattery ground is on the port rear of the engine, under the head of a bolt on the bellhousing-to-block, assuming it is still original configuration.

.

Cloaked
05-27-2013, 04:54 PM
I don't understand how it could be the starter.. we have put two different starters on it from Advance auto parts granted they are made in mexico and it's done it with both of them My opinion is to stick with a marine grade, high-torque starter. Not saying this will cure your problem but these starters (in the link) make a world of difference...

www.skidim.com (http://www.skidim.com) ==> part number 20213


The heat wrap made me laugh a little... :D

.

89mastercraft
05-27-2013, 07:38 PM
Alright... I just removed the starter and had it tested.. first time hooking it up on the machine they test their starters with it made a weird sound and seemed weak.. Replaced it under warranty

Went home installed the new starter... hooked the water up and the boat fired right up.. ran great

20 minutes later, boat is warm.... Will NOT hot start still.

Here is the voltage

Not running battery voltage - 12.4
Not running Starter lead - 12.4

Running the starter lead wire is 14.3
Running the battery is 14.3

During the slow crank/hot start issue here is the voltage
- Starter 7.5 volts
- Battery 9.5 volts
- Coil is 3.4

There are two wires on the coil I don't know which one is which, but while on idle
- 11.1 volts

Is it possible that the automotive starter just doesn't have enough to get the job done?

I am stumped... damn thing will NOT start hot

89mastercraft
05-27-2013, 07:39 PM
By the way brand new starter I got today i wanted to test it and it tested at 65 amps

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-27-2013, 07:55 PM
your problem is in the battery cables, although the battery leads have been cleaned and or look good you are having a massive voltage drop in the cables, are the cables warm/ hot to the touch when cranking when the boat acts up. if so might be time to replace the battery cables.

if you value your life and the life of your boat crew do not use an automotive starter motor, they are not marine approved and could cause sparks and if there is fumes in the bilge a boom will ensue.

red arrow is the location of the negative battery cable mount on the engine

89mastercraft
05-27-2013, 08:53 PM
I was able to located the ground.. It wasn't very dirty, but i cleaned it up..

When it's acting up today the positive terminal was indeed hot.. as well as that ground on the block (also could have to do with location)

I'm looking into getting a marine starter ASAP!

Do you all think the problem is the battery cables?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-27-2013, 08:55 PM
I was able to located the ground.. It wasn't very dirty, but i cleaned it up..

When it's acting up today the positive terminal was indeed hot.. as well as that ground on the block (also could have to do with location)

I'm looking into getting a marine starter ASAP!

Do you all think the problem is the battery cables?

Yes that's your problem, while it is normal for the batt voltage to drop a little while cranking ~2volts, 5 volts is not ok, the hot cables give it away, replace the cables...

cptskier15
06-05-2013, 04:56 AM
We had similar issues, replaced the 30 year old cables and 95% of problem is now solved.

Think there may still be some other bugs but always starts when it is hot now :)

CantRepeat
06-05-2013, 05:58 AM
Did you ever check the timing?

Kyle
06-05-2013, 12:27 PM
your problem is in the battery cables, although the battery leads have been cleaned and or look good you are having a massive voltage drop in the cables, are the cables warm/ hot to the touch when cranking when the boat acts up. if so might be time to replace the battery cables.

if you value your life and the life of your boat crew do not use an automotive starter motor, they are not marine approved and could cause sparks and if there is fumes in the bilge a boom will ensue.


Agree 100%


OP needs a high torque marine starter.


Like James has said. After a marine starter has been installed if the cables get hot replace them. Cables can go bad.

riggsy3
10-04-2013, 04:52 PM
For those of you who have older indmar setups let me share some of my experiences that have worke so perhaps you dont have to spend a lot of $$ chasing down common problems with the indmar engine. As for hot start problems, mine were cleared up when I did 2 things: I insulated the metal fuel line which runs from fuel pump to my 4160 Holley, that in itself cured it pretty much but I took it a step further and replaced the metal carburator spacer ( which has a pcv port) with a phenolic spacer ( transdapt 2529 or 2584 ) available from Jegs or Summit auto parts. Have'nt had a hot-start issue since. Hope this will help.
Regards, Riggsy3

thatsmrmastercraft
10-04-2013, 05:22 PM
For those of you who have older indmar setups let me share some of my experiences that have worke so perhaps you dont have to spend a lot of $$ chasing down common problems with the indmar engine. As for hot start problems, mine were cleared up when I did 2 things: I insulated the metal fuel line which runs from fuel pump to my 4160 Holley, that in itself cured it pretty much but I took it a step further and replaced the metal carburator spacer ( which has a pcv port) with a phenolic spacer ( transdapt 2529 or 2584 ) available from Jegs or Summit auto parts. Have'nt had a hot-start issue since. Hope this will help.
Regards, Riggsy3

A little good old fashioned heat soak/vapor lock technology at it's finest. :toast: