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XavierSPL
05-18-2013, 12:49 PM
Hi All,

I'll use this first post to introduce myself as well as give a back story on my new boat (and yes, I'll of course provide the obligatory pics 8p)

As for myself, long time tinkerer with all things motorized, I'm fairly mechanically inclined and rarely hit a wall that I can't figure out with projects like this (albeit often with the help of forum members on sites like this :rolleyes:) My biggest disadvantage is that I don't have heavy duty tools or ideal work space, never stopped me, but has often slowed me down.. While I'm good with things like cars and motorcycles I never owned a boat until last year so haven't had a lot of experience working on them.. I've never done internal engine work on anything but a motorcycle beyond carb rebuilds either, so while I'm fairly good - when it comes to anything that's proprietary to boats, I'll likely need help.. Last spring I managed to figure out how to pull an outdrive, do water pump impeller, bellows, shift cable, starter etc.. And while we had fun last year with the Searay I/O, last week I discovered a crack in the block due to not properly winterizing. (tried but the new starter failed and prevented me from being able to suck up enough antifreeze into the engine.)
So last week I found my new boat - an 88 Prostar 190. Old school Prostars and Nautiques have always been my fav boats - today all newer boats look the same, there's something about the character these older boats had that I always preferred but the Prostars with the jetfighter windshields have always been my fav.. I found this gem on craigslist for a steal due to the fact that the previous owner believes the block is cracked somewhere due to not winterizing. It has 450 hours and lived it's life in a garage - so while it does need some vinyl work on the top sections, it is remarkably solid otherwise. The engine is very clean and appears to have been well maintained. I cannot find any trace of an external crack on the block but there is water in the oil and there are 2 freeze plugs that are missing. I do see faint traces of rust stains at the heads. I figure, best case - maybe there's a small chance there's a blown headgasket - otherwise I'm assuming an engine swap is in order.
I'll add some pictures of the engine later today, I noticed yesterday there's a 1:5 velvet drive tranny!!
So as of now, the plan is this:
Attempted to repair the crack on my SeaRay (tons and tons of prep and JB Weld) - whether or not it works, I'll be selling it to fund the repairs on the Mastercraft. I'll know by tomorrow afternoon if the repair will hold. I'll tear the heads off the new boat and take a peek prior to considering it scrapped. If replacing, I've been looking at Marine long block 351Ws on Ebay for around $1500. Is the rotation standard on these boats?
Lastly, best I can deduct, I think this boat has been out of the water for up to 5 years - is there anything I should consider a must to replace? I'm hoping to reuse as many of external engine components as possible. Any tips advice etc anyone can offer is appreciated. I'll add interior engine pics later.
Thanks!!!

Lumbergh
05-18-2013, 01:30 PM
Looks like good times. Welcome.

Now the fun part begins, spending money to "make it yours". This can be expensive retail therapy.

Look at the bright side, you found the #1 site on the internet for Mastercraft junkies and enablers.

Keep the hive updated.

zsqure
05-18-2013, 01:35 PM
Welcome to TT and great first boat. I just sold an '88 PS190 this spring. Throw an electronic ignition in that old girl so you won't have to mess with points and such. Lots of information here and plenty of people willing to help.

catamount
05-18-2013, 01:41 PM
Nice! Where are you I'm NH? I'm up in VT with an 89 PS 190 myself. You'll love the boat. Is it a NH boat originally?

XavierSPL
05-18-2013, 07:28 PM
Thx for the words of encouragement and words of welcome!! If anyone has a recommendation for an electronic ignition I'll grab one (as well as any other must haves).. Catamount, the boat's in Weare on a private lake, I believe it is originally from NH, up in the lakes region.

Flatwaterfooter
05-18-2013, 10:21 PM
Had an 88 same colors in the lakes region, but traded in in mass. Is that the original trailer? Mine was white.

gweaver
05-18-2013, 11:26 PM
Nice boat!! I've got the 88 version of that boat- same color, same trans. Fun boat, and for a first boat, I've found it very easy to work on. I don't know a whole lot- sounds like my level of expertise is about where yours is, but I'm happy to help in any way I can.
Greg

mayo93prostar
05-18-2013, 11:50 PM
Www.skidim.com for discount inboard marine is a good source for parts and they are a small company with nice people that will answer the phone and provide support in getting the right part. Jim at BAWS on this site is a good dealer to get stuff from also and especially decals if needed.I recommend to check/replace things that dry out like impeller, gaskets, shaft packing, etc. be sure to lube things up including steering cable and rudder. Change fluids obviously.

Lumbergh
05-19-2013, 11:14 AM
Amazon has the best prices I found on the electronic ignition conversion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wg2bYPLLpc

http://www.skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1113

nkorep2
05-19-2013, 09:54 PM
Im working on getting my year long project one the water. Hopefully a test run at the end of the week. Changing the impeller is a must. Check all the hoses. Shaft packing. Grease rudder. Def get rid of the points, I installed a conversion kit last week and the boat fired up with the first key turn and idled at 600-700 rpm. Your carb may be in need of a rebuild, but if youre getting a new motor, you may just want to get a new carb. I rebuilt mine, nothing to it really, just be patient.

The obvious things to do are changed fluids in motor and tranny.

Good luck!

Here's my restoration thread.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=47157

XavierSPL
05-22-2013, 10:50 AM
So it's been a busy week with other projects - mainly finishing up building a new dock (first time for me, pic attached) as well as staying focused on getting the Searay running - so far the JB Weld block repair seems to be holding. Keeping my fingers crossed as the extra $$ it'll fetch will add to the budget for the Mastercraft.
My plan is to drop a couple freeze plugs in the block, change the fluids and turn her over to see what happens prior to considering the engine scrap.. I'm planning on buying this breakerless conversion kit (http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RP173072) as I currently have the screw down prestolite cap based on you guys' suggestions.
I'm trying to keep doing homework on best engine for the buck assuming the worst case scenario. I'm having a hard time though: I've read many threads regarding engine rotation and still am not 100% on it. I know there were different options available for engines in 88, but did the rotation change? I'm assuming at this point it's a LH rotation (standard) but without being able to crank the engine over, are there any dead giveaways? It is a black painted engine which I read was LH, there is nothing stamped on the prop.
I see a lot of good deals on 351 engines locally and have read all the debate on automotive engines in boats, I would assume that if I bought one, I'd change out the freeze plugs for brass and head gaskets for marine (I'm most likely going to be adding GT40P heads anyways) and all external engine components would be marine of course. When considering this option, is there anything else I should think about? Some people claim there are other differences but I've read quotes from PCM/Indmar that suggests that actually do nothing with internals outside of maybe a different cam for performance/load..
This Sunday I'll be dropping the 2 freeze plugs back in - still not sure why they were removed, and turning her over to see what I see. There is a bit of water in the oil but after sitting for a few years I'm thinking that may or may not mean anything, could just be condensation..
As for he carb - There's a old school local guy here that's been rebuilding carbs out of his house for like 50 yrs that I've been going to forever. $120 flat fee for 4 barrels and he does an amazing job everytime. I'll be sending it off to him for sure..

XavierSPL
05-27-2013, 02:24 PM
So I had a bit of time today to tinker with it a bit and my plan to this point before considering the engine scrap was to replace the 2 missing freeze plugs, add a bit of oil to each cylinder and if the engines turns smoothly manually then run a compression test on the cylinders.. As soon as I started to clean out the freeze plug holes I noticed a lot of metal shavings (see pic). I'm at a loss for why this stuff is in there.. It's very crumbly and "carbon-y"
Any ideas what this would indicate? If any significant amount of this ran through the circulator pump should I consider that toast as well? Curious if I could just flush this stuff out of the jacket and move forward or is it indicative or something bigger?

XavierSPL
05-27-2013, 07:47 PM
Got a bit more done today and unfortunately discovered the engine is seized :mad: oh well, I bought the boat assuming it would need a swap, frustrating thing is the person before has definitely been wrenching on it and it would've saved me a bit of time had he just been honest about it..
I pulled the raw water pump and the thermostat housing and found the same heavy corrosion I found in the water jacket at the freeze plugs.. Is this typical or was this boat in acid? I knew the impeller would be shot and it was of course, little pieces of it missing but the impeller housing seems fine, spins tight and freely - can't think of any way to test the seal though..
My big concerns now are what will be salvagable.. the intake manifold is very corroded where I pulled the thermostat housing. I'm afraid I'll find the same thing in the exhaust manifolds - should I be concerned here? Can these be dipped or something to restore the interior areas? Swapping the intake wouldn't be so bad - could easily get an aftermarket or something.. Here's some pics:

nkorep2
05-31-2013, 04:58 PM
Got a bit more done today and unfortunately discovered the engine is seized :mad: oh well, I bought the boat assuming it would need a swap, frustrating thing is the person before has definitely been wrenching on it and it would've saved me a bit of time had he just been honest about it..
I pulled the raw water pump and the thermostat housing and found the same heavy corrosion I found in the water jacket at the freeze plugs.. Is this typical or was this boat in acid? I knew the impeller would be shot and it was of course, little pieces of it missing but the impeller housing seems fine, spins tight and freely - can't think of any way to test the seal though..
My big concerns now are what will be salvagable.. the intake manifold is very corroded where I pulled the thermostat housing. I'm afraid I'll find the same thing in the exhaust manifolds - should I be concerned here? Can these be dipped or something to restore the interior areas? Swapping the intake wouldn't be so bad - could easily get an aftermarket or something.. Here's some pics:

My thermostat housing looked worse, I sand blasted and had it powder coated black, looks new. Plan on new exhaust manifolds, but they may be salvageable too. You may be able to free and save the motor, soak in oil.

catamount
05-31-2013, 05:12 PM
You can test the seal in the water pump housing by filling it with water and seeing if it leaks out the back. If it does, the seal is only a $16 part and easy to replace.

XavierSPL
06-10-2013, 10:38 PM
Managed to get a few hours in on this yesterday. After pouring about a cup of oil in each cylinder and letting it soak for the last couple weeks i decided to go at it with a breaker bar and see if she'd turn so I could i finally determine if there's any hope for the engine. No such luck so I decided to start tearing the top end down so I could get a look inside and start working on figuring out what externals need to replaced or cleaned up.
After tearing the top end off I found a crack in the valley of the block, one cylinder with a pretty big chunk missing out of the combustion chamber in the head near the valves and a few cylinders that had some pitting corrosion..
So doing my shopping for a new engine now, think I've narrowed it down to one on Ebay. Tomorrow I'll start getting into cleaning and refreshing the thermostat housing, the exhaust manifolds/risers, the intake manifold and dropping the carb off for a rebuild.
I've made a pretty substantial shopping list of parts from skidim that I'll be ordering in the next week or so, seems like it's about everything besides an engine :rolleyes:...
Here's some pics from this weekend:

mikeg205
06-10-2013, 11:45 PM
too bad on the seized engine.. but you got to tear into it... and not unexpected...now you'll have a nice new ride when the engine is replaced - how's the trans?

XavierSPL
06-10-2013, 11:59 PM
too bad on the seized engine.. but you got to tear into it... and not unexpected...now you'll have a nice new ride when the engine is replaced - how's the trans?

Not sure on the tranny yet - not that it's any thorough way to test but seems to shift fine and smoothly, fluid looked good. Hopefully no issues there.

catamount
06-11-2013, 02:37 PM
What about picking up something like this and having it rebuilt / swapping your parts onto it?

http://maine.craigslist.org/pts/3853272695.html

Or... take a drive

http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/boa/3805880718.html

XavierSPL
06-11-2013, 10:31 PM
What about picking up something like this and having it rebuilt / swapping your parts onto it?

http://maine.craigslist.org/pts/3853272695.html

Or... take a drive

http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/boa/3805880718.html

Thanks for posting Catamount! I emailed the guy in NY, I'd take a drive for a deal like that.

XavierSPL
06-12-2013, 10:01 PM
Started cleaning up some odds and ends, nothing worthy of pics yet but I'll have more done by the end of the weekend. (r/w pump, pulleys, valve covers, t-stat housing, intake manifold)
Dropped the carb off for a rebuild yesterday, should be back in about a week. Not sure I'll bother with the stock intake, cheap enough to buy and aftermarket. (Any recommendations for a slightly better than stock?)
In talks with a couple people about engines, debating on whether or not to get a full long block, or get a short block with GT40 heads. Was pretty tempted by these on Ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-289-302-351W-408-427-5-0-Mustang-Aluminum-Heads-GT40-EFI-carburetor-/230838702849?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35bf0f1301&vxp=mtr), price seems too good to be true though. Are GT40s worth the upgrade? What else would I have to change out?
Here's the list of parts I've rounded up so far, i'll be placing an order with skidim tomorrow night I think:

Fuel Filter/Seperator Racor 110 Skidim part # 0501
R/W Impeller Skidim part # 0714
Circulation Pump Skidim part# 0610
T-Stat 160 degree skidim part #0736
T-stat housing gasket skidim part #0725
Shaft packing (? 1-4 not sure what size I need??)
Ignitor/flamethrowe coil/distributor/ignition - conversion kit
(2) Exhaust manifold mounting kit skidim part#9004
(2) riser gasket skidim part#11221
Intake gasket set skidim part#1118
Valve cover gasket set skidim part#1106
(2) Speedo pitot skidim (one's snapped off, might as well do both)
Speedo tubing 25ft skidim part#1802

Anything major missing?? It will likely be a few weeks before I have the new engine so in the meantime I need to get everything needed for a quick install. I'll be taking that time to figure out whether or not I need to replace the starter and alternator and check out the tranny oil cooler.

Kevin 89MC
06-18-2013, 11:29 AM
Nice boat! FWIW I swapped out my standard heads with GT40 heads, made a noticeable increase in power. My posts about it areon here somewhere. I went from about 41-42 MPH to 45-46 MPH top speed, so I definitely increased the HP significantly. I believe Indmar also changed out the intake and cam when going to GT40 heads in the early 90's, so I'm sure I don't have the full HP of that motor, but close enough. Apparently the GT40p heads are even better, but I could not find them locally. I was lucky to find the GT40 heads in an Explorer at a junkyard where I could pull them myself.
Good luck with the rebuild.
Kevin

XavierSPL
06-22-2013, 10:45 PM
So, got some GT40 heads and started ordering a slew of parts in prep for an engine swap. Spent the day today removing all externals off the old engine, checking them out and cleaning/refinishing if appear to be good (long day off grinding, sanding, painting, etc).
I've removed everything from the old engine except the inner half of the circ pump and balancer (need a puller) and so far everything looks to be in pretty good shape except the starter. Everything seemed fine until at the end of the day I started to tackle the exhaust manifolds and noticed that BOTH had long cracks on the outside. :( I managed to successfully repair a cracked block a couple months ago in another boat so I'll take a crack at it, I can't imagine there's moch pressure in those jackets and if it doesn't pan out it'll be easy to deal with later, right now I'd like to save wherever I can and get it in the water asap - over the winter I'll be working up fulll restore.
I've got a ton of odds and ends on the way from skdim and ebay - it'll be about 2 weeks before the shortblock arrives.

46Chief
06-24-2013, 04:28 PM
Nice work on the cleanup if the accessories, it's looking good.

Keep at it, the first ride in your running project is pretty sweet when it all comes together and goes smoothly.

thatsmrmastercraft
06-24-2013, 04:31 PM
Nice work on the cleanup if the accessories, it's looking good.

Keep at it, the first ride in your running project is pretty sweet when it all comes together and goes smoothly.

I remember the first ride in mine. Was listening for and hearing every little noise. Took a while to believe I had worked out all the issues and to relax.

XavierSPL
06-25-2013, 08:41 AM
I remember the first ride in mine. Was listening for and hearing every little noise. Took a while to believe I had worked out all the issues and to relax.

Haha!! Between this being the first engine I've ever played been inside and my terrible previous experiences with my last boat - this was pretty much how I pictured it. I plan on taking it easy anyway during the break-in period. I'm mostly concerned about the condition of the tranny. So far, I've been assuming all is fine. Seems to shift fine but that means very little. The boat only has 500 hours or so and seemed to have been taken well care of until the last season when it wasn't winterized properly.

XavierSPL
06-25-2013, 08:46 AM
Parts will start arriving tomorrow from skidim and begin trickling in now. The short block is due to arrive the middle of next week. I'd been planning on paying a local boat shop $500 to do the swap but my father thinks we could easily do it ourselves so wants to come up and take a stab at it with me weekend after next.
I've pretty much stripped the current block down to almost nothing but the short block. Only things left to remove are the harmonic balancer and timing cover but I'm having a hard time getting the bolt out of the crackshaft. (Debating whether or not I should just replace both and not deal with the headache.) Also need to pull the oil pump and pan once it's out.

I couldn't find a lot of threads on engine removal but I was hoping to be able to remove the block without the tranny. (rather not mess with alignment or shaft for now) It looks like I could remove the front bolts that go into the block from the mounts and unbolt from the bellhousing - should it just lift out at that point?

catamount
06-25-2013, 08:50 AM
Solid progress, keep it up!

XavierSPL
06-27-2013, 09:42 PM
Haven't had much time to get a lot done this week between work and rain but started on the Team platform, this was much easier than I'd anticipated after reading a bunch on it. Decided to hit it with a palm sander and some 400 grit to smooth it out first, then used Maguires teak cleaner - nasty stuff but with only a bit of brushing in it worked really well. Here's the before:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/swimbefore.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/swimbefore.jpg.html)

Here's the after one application of teak cleaner while wet:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/swimafter.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/swimafter.jpg.html)

I used the cleaner 2x more after the pic, looking great now. Once it stops raining here I'll test out the maguires teak oil vs the boiled linseed and start lubin' her up.

Aside from that just been collecting all the goodies that are arriving daily. Here's a couple of the ones I was excited to see:
Arco 70200 reduction gear starter
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/starter.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/starter.jpg.html)
Flame thrower setup:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/ignition.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/ignition.jpg.html)

Won't be able to get much done until after this coming weekend now but should have almost everything ready to begin swapping the engine out.

XavierSPL
07-09-2013, 10:01 PM
So the new short block didn't arrive until today so my plans to start on the swap this past weekend was a bust - instead decided to tackle freshening up the exterior. Started with 800 then 1200 grit wetsand, then moved to polisher with color restore compound, then polish and finished her off with a couple coats of wax. Amazing how much of a difference it makes.. Here's a before and after of one of the badly oxidized spots:

Before:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/hullbefore.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/hullbefore.jpg.html)
After:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/hullafter.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/hullafter.jpg.html)

Also soaked the platform in teak oil, about 4 coats I think.

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/platformhalfway.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/platformhalfway.jpg.html)

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/platformclose.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/platformclose.jpg.html)

I pulled the timing cover and balancer today after work and cleaned em up and resprayed. I decided to pay a local boat shop to pull the old short block and drop in the new one tomorrow which will leave me to have to install the top end and all externals, etc. With any luck she should be running before the weekend's over!! :steering: Just curious to see what I can't remember goes where lol.. Everyone be on stand by to send pictures upon request all weekend, lol!

MikeyOrange88
07-10-2013, 10:44 PM
Good call on the Arco gear reduction starter upgrade. Put one on mine earlier this year, you'll love it.

Nice work on the buffing/polishing. Replacing at least the 1/4" blue striping would be a good bang for the buck in the looks dept. Pretty easy to do and not that costly, but you may be busy doing some other stuff this weekend!

catamount
07-11-2013, 02:14 PM
With any luck she should be running before the weekend's over!! :steering:

:woohoo:

XavierSPL
07-13-2013, 10:59 AM
Underway now trying to get everything back together, actually running into a lot of headaches trying to drill out the heads.. I'm literally eating up stepper drill bits before they get through 1 hole!! I bought a titanium from sears that works but can't fit in my drill extension so I then went to home depot and got a junk one that didn't last 1 hole, then went to harbor freight and found some titanium plated that also didn't last 1 hole each..
Put some questions out in the engine forum, hopefully can get some clarification soon. Off to the ford dealership now to get an oil filter adaptor fitting as the old one was seized into the old block and off to hunt down a stepper drill bit that will finish off the last 8 holes that need to be drilled out...

Cloaked
07-14-2013, 09:27 AM
Underway now trying to get everything back together, actually running into a lot of headaches trying to drill out the heads.. I'm literally eating up stepper drill bits before they get through 1 hole!! I bought a titanium from sears that works but can't fit in my drill extension so I then went to home depot and got a junk one that didn't last 1 hole, then went to harbor freight and found some titanium plated that also didn't last 1 hole each..
Put some questions out in the engine forum, hopefully can get some clarification soon. Off to the ford dealership now to get an oil filter adaptor fitting as the old one was seized into the old block and off to hunt down a stepper drill bit that will finish off the last 8 holes that need to be drilled out...
Machine shop, drill press, and cutting oil. Let a professional service do the job.

.

Kevin 89MC
07-15-2013, 03:21 PM
yeah this definitely needs to be done by a shop, or with a strong drill press at a minimum. When I replaced my heads I had them drilled out by a shop. I did just buy a nice used drill press for drilling steel. Makes a HUGE difference. I used to struggle drilling out 1/4" steel by hand with even good bits, but with the drill press drilling through steel is like drilling through wood.
Good luck,
Kevin

XavierSPL
07-15-2013, 08:08 PM
Another long weekend of wrenching is behind me!!

Here's some pics of the progress:

How the weekend started:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/engine4.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/engine4.jpg.html)

Then:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/engine3.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/engine3.jpg.html)

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/engine2.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/engine2.jpg.html)

And finally:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/IMG_20130714_203022_708.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/IMG_20130714_203022_708.jpg.html)

Overall things went pretty smooth and I only ended up with a couple extra bolts! ;)

Unfortunately she hasn't run yet.. After cranking and cranking for a while with nothing I decided to pour a little gas down the carb and sure enough she fired right away so after looking things over I'm fairly certain the fuel pump is dead.. I'm guessing 5yrs of sitting bone dry didn't help it out much) Ordered a new one from skidim today and will have it in a couple days then I'll be pullin her back to the shop for a final once over and timing.. hopefully everything with the tranny's good, I pulled a couple qts of the old fluid out today (was expecting more than that) and replaced with new fluid..

MikeyOrange88
07-15-2013, 10:41 PM
Underway now trying to get everything back together, actually running into a lot of headaches trying to drill out the heads.. I'm literally eating up stepper drill bits before they get through 1 hole!! I bought a titanium from sears that works but can't fit in my drill extension so I then went to home depot and got a junk one that didn't last 1 hole, then went to harbor freight and found some titanium plated that also didn't last 1 hole each.

You're obviously past the drilling out the heads point, but man, I'd never even attempt one hole in cast iron, much less both heads worth. Mine were done by a machine shop and I still had a time getting the bolts all started by hand. Seemed like the last one just wouldn't start, even though visually it looked perfectly aligned. Did you end up drilling them all out or did you surrender to a machine shop?

MikeyOrange88
07-15-2013, 11:17 PM
Didn't see it mentioned in the thread how/where heads were acquired, but the 'freeze' plugs on the ends of the heads did get replaced with brass ones, right? I'd defer to some of the 'engine nuts' as to whether the threaded plugs (in photo between the valve springs) should be brass or not, although the original ones on my heads were. :o

XavierSPL
07-15-2013, 11:23 PM
You're obviously past the drilling out the heads point, but man, I'd never even attempt one hole in cast iron, much less both heads worth. Mine were done by a machine shop and I still had a time getting the bolts all started by hand. Seemed like the last one just wouldn't start, even though visually it looked perfectly aligned. Did you end up drilling them all out or did you surrender to a machine shop?

It was terrible and in hind sight made no sense to tackle on my own.. Forget about the time and frustration but after 6 hours and 4 trips to different stores to buy more bits, I probably spent double what a shop would've charged.. They're done now at least and so far all looks good..

Didn't see it mentioned in the thread how/where heads were acquired, but the 'freeze' plugs on the ends of the heads did get replaced with brass ones, right? I'd defer to some of the 'engine nuts' as to whether the threaded plugs (in photo between the valve springs) should be brass or not, although the original ones on my heads were. :o

I got the heads locally off craigslist freshly rebuilt.. Changing the plugs out is on my ever-growing list of to-dos for this fall/winter when I'm not so rushed..

XavierSPL
07-17-2013, 02:08 PM
So the boat's been dropped off for final odds and ends and timing.. Does anyone with similar mods have a recommendation what the timing should be set at?? (Feeling like I need to be as prescriptive as possible to the shop that's working on it..)

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-17-2013, 04:44 PM
So the boat's been dropped off for final odds and ends and timing.. Does anyone with similar mods have a recommendation what the timing should be set at?? (Feeling like I need to be as prescriptive as possible to the shop that's working on it..)

10 degrees BTDC.

XavierSPL
07-20-2013, 09:21 AM
10 degrees BTDC.

Thx for all the help with the engine questions James!

Picked her up day before yesterday an heard it run for the first time.. Here's a quick vid (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/VID_20130718_140759_886.mp4.html):

They ran into a couple minor issues but were able to resolve and now there's a small list of things I'll need to take care of.. The alternator is toast so I'll be getting a new one in the next week or 2, and there's a very small amount of smoke/steam coming from the starboard side head/exhaust manifold.. I've read that's not unusual for a rebuilt during break-in but I'll be re-torqueing and keeping an eye on that..

Here's how she's sitting now:

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/IMG_20130720_080339_979.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/IMG_20130720_080339_979.jpg.html)

I put her in yesterday afternoon and ran her at about 1000rpm for 2 hours docked before getting up the nerve to take her around the lake.. The tranny seems to be working great which was a huge relief as I had no way of testing prior.. I did notice the shaft is dripping more than I believe it should.. (between 3-5 drips/second) No big surprise there, knew it was going to have to be done.. At the end of the night after 3-4 hours of total run time I took her around the lake for a couple more laps but never saw more than 2000rpms.. My plan is to continue today just letting her run easy for the most part and by tomorrow I should be able to open it up a bit more..
I've got to say, I've only ever driven I/O so partly I'm not sure how things are supposed to feel but it all seems very stiff compared to my Sea Ray.. The first 1/4 throttle seems very easy and fluid but it feels like it hits a point where you really have to push to get into.. Not sure if that's normal.. The steering had much more resistance in turns than I expected also.. I've greased all the cable for both.. Maybe it all just needs to work the cobwebs out.. The neighbor owns a Malibu Response wants to take it for a spin today and give me his take on it, he said my description sounds about right for what he's used to though..
I'll take a longer vid today and post it..

Thanks for all the help and encouragement everyone's offered up so far!!

Cloaked
07-20-2013, 10:26 AM
Check your exhaust hoses for internal deterioration.

The machine should not be stiff (per se). You may could stand a new steering cable or a little shot of grease on the steering rudder (or both). Stiff is unacceptable. Tight and smooth is another story...

Put fresh fluid in the transmission and you'll know for sure it is fresh...
.

catamount
07-20-2013, 12:24 PM
My '87 had steering like you describe and grease did not solve the problem. A new steering cable made it handle like a dream though. Save it for the fall, enjoy the boat while it's in the water! Glad you've got it running.

XavierSPL
07-20-2013, 01:08 PM
Check your exhaust hoses for internal deterioration.

The machine should not be stiff (per se). You may could stand a new steering cabLe or a little shot of grease on the steering rudder (or both). Stiff is unacceptable. Tight and smooth is another story...

Put fresh fluid in the transmission and you'll know for sure it is fresh...
.

from what I've seen the inside of the exhaust looks new, I should clarify that the steering only feel stiff when I'm traveling at higher speeds, at slow speeds andnot moving it feels fine. made sure to change the transmission fluid before I put her in the water.

My '87 had steering like you describe and grease did not solve the problem. A new steering cable made it handle like a dream though. Save it for the fall, enjoy the boat while it's in the water! Glad you've got it running.

thanks, I guess I'll be adding a cable to the list for this winter.

XavierSPL
07-21-2013, 10:57 AM
Had a good day yesterday with several runs. Have about 10hrs on it so far. Planning on being out a lot today as well.. Here's a vid with the kids and dogs taking a spin:

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/th_20130720_150733.jpg (http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/20130720_150733.mp4)

d2jp
07-21-2013, 12:22 PM
Sound good! That back seat in a Prostar isn't for folks that don't like water:)
I think there are three places to lubricate the steering. Two on the cable and one on the rudder. IIRC one of the cable fittings is just a port, not a zerk fitting and grease will also escape from this when turned fully one-way (don't remember which way). You might disconnect the rudder and clean/grease it too for good measure.
Good links on steering/rudder:
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=51473
Note the picture with the grease oozing from the overflow port on the rudder - if you don't have this, yours could be caked with old grease.
With the cable disconnected you might be able to distribute the grease in the steering cable a little better.
Congrats on your work so for - great looking boat!

XavierSPL
07-21-2013, 10:53 PM
Sound good! That back seat in a Prostar isn't for folks that don't like water:)
I think there are three places to lubricate the steering. Two on the cable and one on the rudder. IIRC one of the cable fittings is just a port, not a zerk fitting and grease will also escape from this when turned fully one-way (don't remember which way). You might disconnect the rudder and clean/grease it too for good measure.
Good links on steering/rudder:
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=51473
Note the picture with the grease oozing from the overflow port on the rudder - if you don't have this, yours could be caked with old grease.
With the cable disconnected you might be able to distribute the grease in the steering cable a little better.
Congrats on your work so for - great looking boat!

Thanks for the compliments and the link.. I didn't realize there was a zerk on the rudder.. It did loosen up a bit throughout the weekend but still feels tougher than it should.. Hopefully that'll take care of it.. Either way it didn't get in the way much of having fun all weekend..

On a sidenote, the leaking from the shaft seal def got worse - enough so that if left with the bilge off for a few hours, I'd find about 3-4" of water in the bilge.. The boat has a float switch but no one thought to screw it down so I found it floating in 4" of water this morning... More work to do this week!!

XavierSPL
07-30-2013, 10:18 AM
So after a couple of weeks of fun, a few issues have sprung up that I'll be trying to figure out over the next week or 2..
The boat's been taking on water since I've had it back in, seems to have gotten progressively worse and is now up about a gallon/hour if I had to guess. Spent a while trying to track down the leak without pulling the gas tank and found a couple areas of concern:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/IMG_20130727_124204_516.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/IMG_20130727_124204_516.jpg.html)

Right here, under the tank next to the rudder plate, there's a small constant dribble. This wasn't enough to accumulate but is there do be dealt with regardless, still not sure the source of the water but also noticed that it's coming from a rather long crack in the glass.. Might be a better winter project to reglass it all in, obviously the water coming through it is another issue.. Here's a closer shot:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/IMG_20130727_121548_580.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/IMG_20130727_121548_580.jpg.html)

Then the real culprit, which was staring me in the face the whole time:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/IMG_20130728_123454_911.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/IMG_20130728_123454_911.jpg.html)
I knew this looked terrible but until I read a bunch of threads on the same issue assumed it was just coming from the shaft packing.. (which I also replaced this weekend).. More to come on that, hoping to get it all reglassed before the weekend.
The biggest concern I have now is that on sunday, after 4-5 trips out, I started to feel a vibration at lower RPMs when in gear.. Between 1000-2000rpm was when it was worst, but from first time feeling to 2 trips out later in the day it got much worse, seemed to go away at higher rpms at first but got bad enough on the 3rd trip to decide to idle back to the dock and pull her out.
This vibration is what I'm most concerned about now and need to figure out (hopefully quick).. I checked the usual suspects and found no play in any direction at the prop end of the shaft, cutlass bearings likely need to be changed out due to age and sitting but I see and feel no play.. I also checked the prop from what I've read and did find one blade has some bends on the tip:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/IMG_20130724_182313_005.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/IMG_20130724_182313_005.jpg.html)
The only reason I'm tending to rule this out, is that this is what it's been since prior to my owning it. so why would it just show up?
I spoke to the shop that's done some work for me and they are going to check some measurements for me but felt one possibility could be that the shaft log is getting progressively worse and allowing the shaft to vibrate.. After seeing the construction of the shaft log and how it's attached to the hull, I'm not convinced it could prevent a shaft from vibrating..
Any ideas on any of the above is appreciated!!

XavierSPL
07-30-2013, 10:20 AM
Forgot to add that I also checked the rudder and while I found no play by hand, I tried to repack with a grease gun and my grease gun broke so was unable to.. After removing the grease fitting, I only found water inside, no trace of grease in there at all!!

Jeff_in_NY
07-30-2013, 10:44 AM
That prop certainly is dinged enough to cause vibration. However, you really should check the straightness of the shaft to be sure. If you live near a Harbor Freight you can get this Dial Indicator (http://www.harborfreight.com/clamping-dial-indicator-93051.html) for $35.00 minus 20% off.

Use that and be sure for yourself.

I would say adding grease vs. water to the grease fitting will make a difference :)

XavierSPL
08-03-2013, 11:08 AM
So a pictureless update for now and more confusion regarding this vibration..

I decided to drop it off at the shop after last weekend to have everything measured up to find the source of the vibration and they cannot find any explanation. I'm getting conflicting info between a couple sources at this point:

The shop measured the coupling gap and shaft, found no gap variances at the coupler and less than .0015 at multiple points on the shaft. The strut and cutlass bearing have no play whatsoever either. I felt at that point that it must be the prop but the mechanics at the shop felt that it wasn't damaged enough to cause the kind of vibration I'm describing.
I decided to have the prop done regardless since it does have damage so I brought it down to H&H (seem to be the most reputable in this part of New England) and dropped it off. When they looked at it they said it was in terrible shape and def needed to be done for what you can see in the pics. They said they agreed that the damage to the fins may not have been enough to cause the vibration but they pointed out that there was some scoring/wear in the bore of the prop that shows it hadn't been seated properly on the shaft whenever last installed and that that was what was causing the vibration under load.. The said it should be installed with some type of sandy-grit stuff?? I subsequently stopped by the shop again and told them what they'd said and the mechanics disagreed and said they had to really fight to get the prop off the shaft (more so than normal) and didn't see anyway it could've had any play..
Oh well, I'm out of ideas for now - couple more days and a little over $200 for the prop repair and we'll see what happens next weekend when I get her back in the water.
This week coming the shaft log will be getting new glass and I'm going to try and order up a new cutlass bearing for the strut since it's all apart. (planning on XPC, any thoughts?)

d2jp
08-03-2013, 07:29 PM
So a pictureless update for now and more confusion regarding this vibration..

I decided to drop it off at the shop after last weekend to have everything measured up to find the source of the vibration and they cannot find any explanation. I'm getting conflicting info between a couple sources at this point:

The shop measured the coupling gap and shaft, found no gap variances at the coupler and less than .0015 at multiple points on the shaft. The strut and cutlass bearing have no play whatsoever either. I felt at that point that it must be the prop but the mechanics at the shop felt that it wasn't damaged enough to cause the kind of vibration I'm describing.
I decided to have the prop done regardless since it does have damage so I brought it down to H&H (seem to be the most reputable in this part of New England) and dropped it off. When they looked at it they said it was in terrible shape and def needed to be done for what you can see in the pics. They said they agreed that the damage to the fins may not have been enough to cause the vibration but they pointed out that there was some scoring/wear in the bore of the prop that shows it hadn't been seated properly on the shaft whenever last installed and that that was what was causing the vibration under load.. The said it should be installed with some type of sandy-grit stuff?? I subsequently stopped by the shop again and told them what they'd said and the mechanics disagreed and said they had to really fight to get the prop off the shaft (more so than normal) and didn't see anyway it could've had any play..
Oh well, I'm out of ideas for now - couple more days and a little over $200 for the prop repair and we'll see what happens next weekend when I get her back in the water.
This week coming the shaft log will be getting new glass and I'm going to try and order up a new cutlass bearing for the strut since it's all apart. (planning on XPS, any thoughts?)

I just went through a similar process - leak around the shaft log and decided to replace the cutlass bearings with XPC while I was doing it. My boat would take on water while docked. After fixing this leak it's extrememly dry!
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=54563

I also seated my prop using the MC suggested method per the owner's manual that came with our boats, which is using valve grinding compound on the shaft to eliminate any high spots and ensure a contact area of something like 70%. Here's a link: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=56115

I'd guess the vibration is the prop, either damage or...possibly if it's not seated properly and has rotated some on the shaft to where it's hard to remove...maybe it's also slightly 'out of balance'? Have no idea on this last statement, just a wild a$$ guess:)

XavierSPL
08-06-2013, 05:25 PM
Thanks for the links Jack, very helpful info..

Progress underway on the shaft log, all torn apart now and getting cleaned up, should be all done and reglassed in the next day or 2. Here's some pics:

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/IMG_20130805_163459_431.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/IMG_20130805_163459_431.jpg.html)
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/IMG_20130806_121933_408.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/IMG_20130806_121933_408.jpg.html)

Also picked up my prop today, looking so good I'm now feeling like I better clean up the strut and rudder!! :rolleyes:

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/IMG_20130806_111650_471.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/IMG_20130806_111650_471.jpg.html)

d2jp
08-07-2013, 07:27 PM
That pink material remain on the hull in the pictures is the same thing mine had, pretty sure it's Bondo. That was probably the best choice of attempting to bond aluminum to fiberglass back then, but today, there are a lot of more advanced resins that will both bond better, and allow for some flex to accomodate the vibration and movement that could occur in that area. I used West System's G-Flex, thickened into a paste and 'bedded' the aluminum stuffing box into that. I considered 3M 5200 but decided on G-Flex after talking to tech support at WS.

XavierSPL
08-10-2013, 08:10 PM
That pink material remain on the hull in the pictures is the same thing mine had, pretty sure it's Bondo. That was probably the best choice of attempting to bond aluminum to fiberglass back then, but today, there are a lot of more advanced resins that will both bond better, and allow for some flex to accomodate the vibration and movement that could occur in that area. I used West System's G-Flex, thickened into a paste and 'bedded' the aluminum stuffing box into that. I considered 3M 5200 but decided on G-Flex after talking to tech support at WS.

Ended up using epoxy then mat and sealed it all in with gelcoat..

To my disappointment, the vibration is still there after all the work this past couple weeks. . Turns out it was the engine skipping a cylinder the whole time.. a quick compression check showed cylinder 1 had only 10lbs or so, all others were 135ish.. I threw a bit of oil in the cylinder and no change so narrowed it down to a valve. After p7lling the valve cover right there jumping out at me was a rocker out of place, the stud had snapped. Replaced and for a minute all seemed well until I gave her a bit of throttle, problem still there. Im guessing it just snapped again.. havent had any time to tear it down again but for now im on 7 cylinders

catamount
08-12-2013, 11:21 AM
What a bummer! What would cause the rocker stud to snap twice? Man, sorry you had that happen right after a rebuild.

XavierSPL
08-13-2013, 09:35 PM
What a bummer! What would cause the rocker stud to snap twice? Man, sorry you had that happen right after a rebuild.

Bummer indeed.. After my last post I tried doing a compression test and the valve in the tester stuck open but it seemed that cylinder #1 was now working so I pulled the valve cover off again and turns out the new stud held and no issues could be seen on the drivers side.. I replaced and gapped all new plugs, checked the wires, checked the firing order to rule it out and double checked the timing.. So far all seems fine, need to pull the other valve cover and see what's doing under there..
Feeling like there could be an issue with the head that had the snapped rocker stud. It is very frustrating to say the least, spent a lot of $$ to check all the drive train, never thought the issue could lie with the engine at all...

XavierSPL
05-19-2014, 10:33 PM
Time to revive this thread as I'm back to work on her getting ready to get back in the water in the next week or so.. My plan for this season is to complete everything still left to restore saving only the vinyl and carpet for this coming winter..

Over the last couple weeks I've managed to get a bit done that I never tended to last season, starting with the hull as there were several small leaks that I never tended to last year. Pulled the gas tank and decided to also get my speedos working - on one side, I found a tear in the tube near the transom and on the other side I found that the brass cylinder the tube runs through had popped the cap out (likely ice got in there at some point). It was pretty gross under there in general, looked like this when I started:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/20140514_123948.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/20140514_123948.jpg.html)
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/20140514_123959.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/20140514_123959.jpg.html)

I pulled out everything that goes through the transom and redid all the adhesive, and replaced the bilge vent hose and the exhaust hoses, degreased everything and decided to redo the swim platform brakets as well.

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/20140514_160902.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/20140514_160902.jpg.html)
(you can also see a shot of how the gelcoated shaftlog repair came out.)
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/20140518_104406.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/20140518_104406.jpg.html)

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/20140518_134112.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/20140518_134112.jpg.html)

Swim platform before:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/20140514_124512.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/20140514_124512.jpg.html)
And after:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/20140519_073715.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/20140519_073715.jpg.html)

XavierSPL
05-19-2014, 10:44 PM
Since I started getting ready to replace the stereo and got up into the dash I decided to change the steering wheel also..

Out with the old:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/20140518_101022.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/20140518_101022.jpg.html)
In with the new:
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/xavierspl/boat/20140519_073727.jpg (http://s645.photobucket.com/user/xavierspl/media/boat/20140519_073727.jpg.html)

Luckily I found the MC logo badge for the old wheel sitting in the cupholder when I got the boat, just need to replace the Grant one with that..

I'm still working out the vibration issues I dealt with last year unfortunately, I'll be posting in the engine section to try and get some help there. Ended up replacing the lifters this past weekend and got everything bolted back up and running tonight, just doesn't seem to be quite right yet but hopefully will have it sorted pretty quickly.. Next will be to get her polished and waxed this week prior to getting in the water!!

homer12
05-20-2014, 07:57 AM
Nice work and good job staying with it!

CC2MC
05-20-2014, 09:54 AM
Looking good!