PDA

View Full Version : Shaft allignment, cant seperate flanges.


agua4fun
04-19-2013, 09:56 PM
It was time to replace my packing, so i thought id check the engine allignment as well.
I have never had vibration problems, but i have also never been able to turn my prop with just a few fingers. It aways took my whole hand and a moderate amount of muscle.

I took the 4 bolts off the coupler flange, but the flange wont slide away more than, 1/16" from the other side. I can put a screwdriver in and pry to an 1/8" but it just springs back closed. the packing nut is completely off.

It seems that other posters on the form can just move the shaft in/out easily, or am i mistaken?

The allignment measured as-is, is. 004 and close to tollerence. Im half tempted to bolt it back up, but wonder if its binding that badly, if i have a larger issue.

Thoughts? Should i pry them apart with force? I dont want to screw something up and miss my spring skiing since this wasnt a problem in the 1st place.

Thanks,
Dave

88 PS190
04-19-2013, 10:11 PM
Go beneath, pull prop, squirt strut bushings with water and turn/pull shaft.

FrankSchwab
04-20-2013, 12:40 AM
It sounds like the old packing is still in the stuffing box, and causing a lot of friction. When you pry apart, the shaft isn't actually sliding through the stuffing box - it's hanging up, you're compressing the rubber hose between the shaft log and the stuffing box, and when you let go it springs back.

Go ahead and dig out all the old packing. Loosen the screw clamps holding the hose onto the stuffing box (or the other end, whichever is easier), and slide the stuffing box up the prop shaft. A wee bit of water on the shaft going into the stuffing box, and some on the shaft going into the strut bushing might help. You'll need to do this to check the engine alignment anyway. Then you should be able to separate the coupler. If this doesn't help, then

/frank

agua4fun
04-20-2013, 10:58 AM
Packing was already out. pulling from the prop hub and a little water did the trick.

The flanges are easily 1/2" out of adjustment.
The shaft is touching the fiberglass shaft log at the 8oclock position, in fact i think it would center even a bit further off that side if it could.
It fell dead center when it was coupled to the tranny, but obviously their was a misaignment.

Maybe im ahead of myself here but Is my strut bent? watching the shaft allignment video :
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=3_w0LvD6gEc&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3_w0LvD6gEc

He mentions the strut could be shifted slightly or shimmed with a washer and re seated.

mikeg205
04-20-2013, 11:03 AM
Squirt penetration oil in between...wait a couple hours... get a plastic mallet... tap it a few time more penetration oil... just keep treating.. like you said it's not a problem...check the shaft alignment then wrap it up.. :)

get some gore tex to replace your flax packing... just pick out the packing with an awl...carefully...cut new pieces... tighten it down... when you take it on the lake check for a few drips... and then go ski...

Okay you posted up your picks before I finished my post... your shaft strut may be bent...

you can also pour a little CLR down the cutlass bearing to remove the scaling... then spray 303 protectant in there.

agua4fun
04-20-2013, 02:13 PM
Sorry the pics showed up late, they didnt attach the 1st time....

I thought about bent shaft, it could be, but most of this angle i coming fron the strut. If i spin the shaft, it always stays to that same side of the log. Seems like it would move around as it was spun if it was bent. (i know tolerances need to be more than visual)

FrankSchwab
04-20-2013, 04:02 PM
Bent strut. Someone at some point in time hit something and bent it a bit.

You have several options here.
1. Buy a new strut. Fairly expensive, but the best solution.
2. One member here was successful at removing the old strut, elongating the holes a little bit, then putting it back on using the propshaft to hold the strut where it needed to be then tightening the bolts (Note that you'll have to scrape off the old sealant and put on new silicone sealant). If the propshaft comes through the shaft log without touching the sides, you're golden. The nice thing here is that it's free, and if it doesn't work you can always go back to step 1.
3. One member here was successful at using the propshaft as a long lever to bend the strut back into place. The negative, of course, is that you may end up with a bent propshaft in addition to the bent strut if you put too much force on the shaft.

I don't have access to it right at the moment, but there is a "Propshaft-alignment" document floating around the forum that describes re-aligning the engine and strut after you get everything straightened out. You'll have to search for it.

Good luck and keep us posted. I wouldn't leave the strut that way, as you risk breaking the propshaft due to the repeated bending cycles it goes through.

/frank

agua4fun
04-20-2013, 07:07 PM
First of all, thanks for helping.

I did a dry fit of your option #2, AND used a washer under each of the 3 right rear bolts, between the hull and strut, this puts the shaft dead-center of the log. Ive been reading numerous threads here and havent seen anyone try washers, but it comes from the video linked above. If i stick with this do you think their will be too much stress where the washers contact the gelcoat? Im thinking about beding the strut in 3m 5200 or westsystem epoxy but it may be a bit agressive. I could use some 3m 4000 that i have here from a previous project as well which is just a beefed up version of silicone.

Ive measured this strut numerous times, its dead straight. Weird.

FrankSchwab
04-20-2013, 10:54 PM
I don't know what kind of forces the strut sees; I don't know whether washers are a good choice or not. If I were going to do that on my boat, in order to maintain the full contact area that the strut normally has on the hull, I'd consider bedding the strut in Epoxy or something similarly rigid and structural. I'd put some kind of barrier between the hull and the epoxy, such that if I wanted to remove the strut+epoxy sometime in the future, I could - perhaps something as simple as a layer of wax paper or cellophane.

Good luck.

mikeg205
04-21-2013, 09:57 AM
prop shaft alignment doc...

FrankSchwab
04-21-2013, 03:00 PM
While you have everything apart, you might want to consider checking the strut bushings and see if they need replacement. With the amount of side force you've been running with due to the misalignment, you may have some off-center wear.

I will say that I don't know what kind of improvement you'd expect to see by replacing worn bushings. I think it depends on your level of MCOCD.

/frank

agua4fun
04-23-2013, 05:59 PM
I ended up creating a small shim with west system epoxy under the strut. I used the strut as a form, with a mold release. Then after it cured, I cleaned the mold release and used silicone between the strut and new epoxy shim. - bolted back up, alligned the engine and now i'm .001 up/dn & .003 L/R

Left/Right is tough to get the engine to only move a small amount. It kept going too far everytime i tried to move it. Now thinking about it i should have used a clamp or block etc.. to create a stop on the opposite side i was pushing on. Also, i found 3 of 4 nuts on the front horizontal pins weren't even close to tight. :confused:

Replaced the packing. The strut bearings looked fine.

Thanks for the help everyone.
Dave

FrankSchwab
04-24-2013, 05:22 PM
Excellent. Now get out and go skiing!

hewlett6621
04-24-2013, 07:52 PM
I am just curious on how easy your prop turns now? Great work by the way.

agua4fun
04-24-2013, 09:20 PM
Cant wait to get skiing! Thanks!

I cant say it helped as much as i'd hoped. Its maybe half the friction of before which is obviously a nice improvement. I guess i can turn it with 2 fingers, but not comfortably.
Keep in mind the strut bushing isnt wet yet.
have sone tension in the tranny alone.
It definitly doesnt spin like
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=wTQaetaYQls&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DwTQaetaYQls

FrankSchwab
04-24-2013, 09:27 PM
You may have the packing a bit tight, also. Remember that you'll have to do some adjustments the next time you go to the lake, and over the next 10 hours or so; check the friction after you get those done.

/frank

psychobilly
04-24-2013, 11:27 PM
Cant wait to get skiing! Thanks!

I cant say it helped as much as i'd hoped. Its maybe half the friction of before which is obviously a nice improvement. I guess i can turn it with 2 fingers, but not comfortably.
Keep in mind the strut bushing isnt wet yet.
have sone tension in the tranny alone.
It definitly doesnt spin like
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=wTQaetaYQls&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DwTQaetaYQls

Did you install new vesconite cutlass bearings? If so, and you can turn it with two fingers on a struggle, once you run it she will turn freely.

Edit. Sorry I see that you didn't swap out the cutlass bearings.

agua4fun
04-25-2013, 12:33 AM
Yeah ill keep you all posted after i get a few hours on the packing.

manowicki
06-05-2013, 02:38 PM
I recently picked up a 1993 PS 190 & have been working/fxing long overdue neglected stuff for weeks now & I am moving on to the leaking nut stuffing box. While I am in there, the packing hose definately should be replaced as well but until I remove it I am not sure of what the actual size is (ID). I want to save down time & order from Buck Algonquin ahead of tearing it apart.
http://catalog.buckalgonquin.com/viewitems/packing-box-hoses-2/packing-box-hoses-heavy-duty?#

What size are you guys using?

Thanks!

Mike

GoneBoatN
06-05-2013, 04:51 PM
I ended up creating a small shim with west system epoxy under the strut. I used the strut as a form, with a mold release. Then after it cured, I cleaned the mold release and used silicone between the strut and new epoxy shim. - bolted back up, alligned the engine and now i'm .001 up/dn & .003 L/R

Left/Right is tough to get the engine to only move a small amount. It kept going too far everytime i tried to move it. Now thinking about it i should have used a clamp or block etc.. to create a stop on the opposite side i was pushing on. Also, i found 3 of 4 nuts on the front horizontal pins weren't even close to tight. :confused:

Replaced the packing. The strut bearings looked fine.

Thanks for the help everyone.
Dave

Ratcheting straps can be helpful as well.