PDA

View Full Version : prostar 205 1994 new crate motor


sheldonbaker1973
04-09-2013, 04:54 PM
hey just put a new crate motor in boat got it all hooked up ,,, there is power to the starter but no power when u try to trun the key ... this is a ignittion butten on the dash that keeps popping help the batt is good and i have one 2 wire plug i can not find where it goes one wire is yellow the other wire is black ,,,, i have checked all grounds even with a test light too ,,,,

02ProstarSammyD
04-09-2013, 05:04 PM
huh?

What kind of boat, engine, and info on the push button?

What do you mean by the button is popping?

What do you mean there is power to starter but not when you turn the key? I thought it was a push button starter?

sheldonbaker1973
04-09-2013, 07:38 PM
well it was the alternator ground tripping the panel switch ,,, motor turns over fuel pump comes on but no fuel ,, has tbi on a 350 chevy ,, still can not find where the one plug goes ,, has a all yellow wire and all black wire has to go to a gauge i can not find it all the others are hook up ... the wire end is to clean so it had to be plugged in befor

jakethebt
04-09-2013, 10:51 PM
You need to post pictures for people to really help.

02ProstarSammyD
04-09-2013, 11:12 PM
pics and info or it didn't happen "Mike"

sheldonbaker1973
04-09-2013, 11:26 PM
how do i post pics on here new to this stuff ,, thanks

sheldonbaker1973
04-09-2013, 11:37 PM
im trying to get some pics up for the one plug thanks for helping

mikeg205
04-09-2013, 11:43 PM
Trans temp wires I will go check -

mikeg205
04-09-2013, 11:49 PM
Yup - that's the overheat temp sensor wire - mine shows the wire going into the main harness area where the main breaker goes.. I would have to take apart to see - can you show picture of where your wire harness attaches at rear of motor?

mikeg205
04-09-2013, 11:56 PM
If its EFI it plugs into ECU via harness along with oil pressure switch.. per Clymer diagram
If carburated...plugs into harness plug connector which unites oil pressure engine temp engine temp

88 PS190
04-09-2013, 11:56 PM
OK start simple.

That plug I'm not sure on, I already shut off all the lights in the garage, so I'm not gonna go crawl into the boat and look.

You posted "there is power to the starter but no power when you try to turn the key ... there is an ignition button on the dash that keeps popping help the battery is good"

That button is a circuit breaker. I'm not sure what all is on that breaker, it may be more than just ignition.

First, get a jumper wire, go to the starter, jump the live lug to the lug that the ignition switch is connected to. The starter should engage and turn over the engine - if it does not turn over the engine you have something going on at the starter as a starter is "dumb" if you put power to the starter it engages, it has no safety switches or circuit breakers built into it.

Button up on the dash is the circuit breaker, so something is tripping that, but I doubt its the starter.

mikeg205
04-10-2013, 12:24 AM
You most likely have the wire incorrectly on the starter. can you show pictures of start wiring? and there should be a plug block for your transmission over hear sensor on the ecu harness connection on the back of motor - if your motor is similar to mine.

sheldonbaker1973
04-10-2013, 12:34 AM
i dont see a place on the trans for it ,, and i have a 94 5.7 tbi as for the oil pressure switch its just one wire and mounts above my oil filler and no place for that to plug into ,,, i hope im overlooking where it goes but there is only a few plug ins on this set up ,,, the end of the plug is to clean so it was plugged in lol ,,,

sheldonbaker1973
04-10-2013, 12:36 AM
OK start simple.

That plug I'm not sure on, I already shut off all the lights in the garage, so I'm not gonna go crawl into the boat and look.

You posted "there is power to the starter but no power when you try to turn the key ... there is an ignition button on the dash that keeps popping help the battery is good"

That button is a circuit breaker. I'm not sure what all is on that breaker, it may be more than just ignition.

First, get a jumper wire, go to the starter, jump the live lug to the lug that the ignition switch is connected to. The starter should engage and turn over the engine - if it does not turn over the engine you have something going on at the starter as a starter is "dumb" if you put power to the starter it engages, it has no safety switches or circuit breakers built into it.

Button up on the dash is the circuit breaker, so something is tripping that, but I doubt its the starter.

i have that all taken care of my tbi injectors are not working and the worked befor the swop

sheldonbaker1973
04-10-2013, 12:41 AM
well it was the alternator ground tripping the panel switch thats what that was now ,,,

motor turns over fuel pump comes on but no fuel ,, it worked fine before ...
has tbi on a 350 chevy ,, still can not find where the one plug goes

mikeg205
04-10-2013, 12:43 AM
i dont see a place on the trans for it ,, and i have a 94 5.7 tbi as for the oil pressure switch its just one wire and mounts above my oil filler and no place for that to plug into ,,, i hope im overlooking where it goes but there is only a few plug ins on this set up ,,, the end of the plug is to clean so it was plugged in lol ,,,

trans will have 2 flat connectors and other end plugs into wire harness. Did you locate main harness to ECU? The ECU plug is about 2.5 inches wide with many wires leading to ECU. open / closed circuit may prevent start - but I am more concerned with current overload on start.

etduc
04-10-2013, 10:48 AM
Here's few pictures of my 94 Prostar 205 TBI, if it helps.

sheldonbaker1973
04-10-2013, 11:56 AM
i have the two flat plugs and the two wires on my trans

Kyle
04-10-2013, 01:30 PM
Ok I'd like to chime in briefly. Mike is doing an excellent job.

Where does the connector go into the harness. How long is the wire. This will break down the area to focus in on.


A real dumb question but is it possible that the old sensor is supposed to be installed on the new engine and was accidentally left on old engine? I assume the old engine was the core for the new one....

etduc
04-10-2013, 03:09 PM
Kyle, got me thinking. It's located right side of exhaust manifold. On my boat, directly above the ecm. You owe me.

etduc
04-10-2013, 03:13 PM
Pictures, at 11. I'll take a craft brew. :cool:

mikeg205
04-10-2013, 03:19 PM
Score - etduc! oil pressure sensor and transmission overheat series in series connection.

sheldonbaker1973
04-10-2013, 03:35 PM
ohhhhhhh my never even look at the old heads thats a big 10 4 on that lol

etduc
04-10-2013, 03:46 PM
Glad, I could help. We're all in this together.

sheldonbaker1973
04-10-2013, 03:48 PM
but my injectors will not trun on checked all grounds i have power to the injectors ,,, bought a injector tested and it does not light up ,,, u can here the fuel pump come on . for about 3 secs there is gas to the lines i have backed them off and and truned the key and theres gas up to the tbi ,,,, ground going into the computer and coming out had the distriuter module checked all good ,,, it worked befor the motor swop u can dump gas down the tbi and it will fire both relays click as they are working ? ABOUT TO PULL ALL THE COMPUTER STUFF AND PUT A CARB ON IT LOL

sheldonbaker1973
04-10-2013, 03:50 PM
Glad, I could help. We're all in this together. THANK YOU FOR THE HELP TO LOL I DONT THINK I WOULD HAVE EVER WHEN BACK AND LOOK INTELL THE MOTOR WAS RUNNING LOL

Kyle
04-10-2013, 03:50 PM
Glad we got all of our minds rolling and it got figured out.

milkmania
04-10-2013, 04:01 PM
Glad we got all of our minds rolling and it got figured out.

my first post in 2004 was about my engine cranking, and not starting,
"the crew" showed me how to jumper around the kill switch. (JimN if I'm not mistaken)

been here ever since 8p

sheldonbaker1973
04-10-2013, 04:24 PM
what you mean so the injectors will trun on ? LOL im about to filp it to carb and be done lol
what about the neutral safty switch have something to do with the injectors ,, but the motor truns over just not spraying out of the injectors

Kyle
04-10-2013, 04:53 PM
what you mean so the injectors will trun on ? LOL im about to filp it to carb and be done lol
what about the neutral safty switch have something to do with the injectors ,, but the motor truns over just not spraying out of the injectors

Keep the efi


Check the safety switch

Check all wires. There is a reason the breaker is resetting.

ahhudgins
04-10-2013, 05:54 PM
Before I go into any possible causes, have you checked to see if you have spark at the plugs when the engine is cranking? It might not be just an injector problem.

mikeg205
04-10-2013, 05:55 PM
#1 Now I am thinking like kyle... power to injectors and no gas means - ECU no sending fuel signal...

#2 Trans overheat and oil pressure has to either be open or closed circuit - I don't know which but check continuity there.

#3 ECT must be also correct - bad ECT or bad data from ECT will tell ECU not to fire.

When pump primes you should get spray from injectors. When I tried running a warmer T-stat I was getting start issues after heat soak. Lot of turning and drips from injectors.

I will scan and send wiring diagram later...

Kyle/JimN do you know what the readings need to be on sensors to signal ECU to fire fuel?

Hopefully condition that caused break to open did not cause spike to ECU and kill drivers.

etduc
04-10-2013, 05:57 PM
Did you say, you have 12vdc @ injectors? If yes, with ignition key on, manually ground one injector, independent of wire lume. If it sprays,... then you probably have a bad ignition module, pinch ground wire, or in that area. According to google search, the ignition module fires the spray by adding a ground intermently to the injector. Bad ignition module is a common issue, with TBI. Since you had some wiring issue earlier, maybe the ign. mod, fried. I'm definitely not an expert.

Where's JimN, when you need him?

mikeg205
04-10-2013, 05:57 PM
Which MEFI do you have? 1, 2, 3 or 4?

Did you get a Clymers manual before this undertaking? Lot's of great info in there.

mike

mikeg205
04-10-2013, 06:12 PM
+1 on pulsing ground...

Kyle
04-10-2013, 06:12 PM
Who put the intake and distributor on this engine? Is the timing and distributor in the correct spot? If its 180* off then it will never run. A bad ignition module could cause problems too.

I unfortunately do not remember the readings for the injectors.


I was working on a friends Air Nautique. He "had a new" safety switch. The gt40 engine is port fuel and I chased the fuel system for hours. Finally I bypassed the "new" safety switch. Boom cranked right up.


The thing we have here is some new and old parts mixed in. This is fine but sometimes a sensor can go bad. If the engine will spin over I would bet that the neutral safety switch on the tranny is fine. I've seen those go bad. I would bet its safe to eliminate tranny sensors and stay on engine sensors.



I seriously doubt that the oil pressure sending unit caused a spike in the system to hurt it. There is another issue besides that.




To OP guest: always check the real stupid easy stuff first. Assuming can make a real easy item wear you out with unnecessary stress.

Good battery, safety lanyard and good switch, boat in neutral, and a clear calm head always helps.

Lets get more info. Timing, safety switch, and the oil pressure sensor installed and get back with us.

mikeg205
04-10-2013, 06:28 PM
also check all fuses just in case... or did we do that already...easy

sheldonbaker1973
04-10-2013, 08:42 PM
i have checked a lot of things ,,, i can pour gas down the tbi and it will fire ,,, on the gas ... so it has spark as for the timing as a new motor it has fired if it was a 180 off of the timing it would back fire and so one but i still can not see a 180 off not leting the injectors come on ...
it all worked before the new motor went in fired the old motor up it has to be a broken wire some where ,, but i have a ton of money in this new motor and i cant put a ton of money into a computer when i can change it too carb way cheaper then a new computer ,, having power to the injectors and them not firing is driving me nuts ,,,

sheldonbaker1973
04-10-2013, 08:50 PM
where is this safty switch at .. and what does it look like ,, im about to put the wires off and check them all dont want to but its got to be done i guess

88 PS190
04-10-2013, 08:50 PM
That plug...

Reminding me of a crankshaft position sensor - based on your problems that sounds correct as well.

Look by the timing indicator on the engine for a plug.

sheldonbaker1973
04-10-2013, 09:10 PM
plug was found its a temp plug

sheldonbaker1973
04-10-2013, 09:14 PM
ignition module was tested and good napa tested it for me remember guys ,, it i pour gas down the tbi it will fire so that will eliminate a lot of others its has to be a broken wire some where ,,,

sheldonbaker1973
04-11-2013, 01:27 AM
what do u do right .. a very eazy motor swop turns into this ....

mikeg205
04-11-2013, 01:43 AM
Did you try grounding the blue and green wires to injectors? When you turn key to on. Pump primes and you ECU should prime intake. Ground the blue or green connector to see if there's that is ok. You may want to take to a dealer to see what the ECU is reporting. might be something real simple. I will look thru engine manual tomorrow.

mikeg205
04-11-2013, 01:47 AM
I wonder if its the fuel pump relay... that was the solution in another thread even though it tested ok.

sheldonbaker1973
04-11-2013, 03:41 PM
ok guys i unpluged the 4 wire clip that goes to the tbi and was testing stuff and the injoctor sprayed so is the plug on the tbi bad

sheldonbaker1973
04-11-2013, 03:46 PM
here is the plug .. i was testing my stuff and when i tested the 4 wire plug with the key on my injectors sprayed ...

mikeg205
04-11-2013, 06:30 PM
That is the idle air motor you disconnected. The injector wires are at the back of the TBI unit.

mikeg205
04-11-2013, 06:52 PM
I would get a code reader and see if there are any codes stored in the ECU. It's also possible that your EFI system relay is stuck. Can you identify which MEFI you have and I will send wiring diagram. EFI system relay can be checked.

sheldonbaker1973
04-11-2013, 08:31 PM
tbi is what it is

mikeg205
04-11-2013, 08:38 PM
I'll assume same as mine - I will post some doc's tomorrow.

sheldonbaker1973
04-11-2013, 10:23 PM
ok bet u guys are sick of me lol .. but not looking good .. that plug with four wires . Purple wire I can take a test light hooked to positive .. and Touch all three of the other wires And make my injectors pulsate I am making a complete circuit ... soo does Anyone have an idea what all four wires does It's looking like I have to buy a computer If that's the case I might as well put a carburetor.. ? Sorry for bothering all you guys and thanks for the help

sheldonbaker1973
04-11-2013, 10:25 PM
It's A tbi Throttlebody One computer . I have changed the coil The distributor control module And The spark control module whatever you call it

mikeg205
04-11-2013, 11:01 PM
Your engine has and ECU - it most likely has some stored codes in it. The ECU fires (as you know) the injectors. That plug is the Idle air control. See Diagram attached - are you grounding via connector or plug to fire injector. I assume you fired injectors by grounding connector plug by what you wrote - therefore ECU most likely good... See diagram attached for connections.

mikeg205
04-11-2013, 11:13 PM
Let's try again...ahh better.... file attached

mikeg205
04-11-2013, 11:25 PM
read on other forums - BAD IAC or TPS Throttle position sensor can simulate your problems. try pushing the throttle all the way forward similar max throttle position...see if fire injectors.

Good luck - I would get a code reader and read for codes in the ECU...

sheldonbaker1973
04-12-2013, 12:52 AM
i have done full throttle and not a thing ,, it did not work i have like 20 hrs in this thing and hate to put a carb on it .... but everthing is pushing back to a bad computer .. i hate to say it ,,, its driving me nuts ,,, i cant keep throwing money at it when i know i can carb it and be done ,, i dont want to do that at all ,,, but there is no thing telling the injectors to fire that falls back to the computer ,,, the thing is it worked before i swapped it ... and its not like i have not done this stuff before ... i have done a lot of cars and trucks so now u know y this is driving me nuts ...

sheldonbaker1973
04-12-2013, 12:53 AM
by the way i did put a new IAC on it and not a thing its like the run mode is missing lol

sheldonbaker1973
04-12-2013, 12:57 AM
code reader where do u get one for a boat my buddy has a truck shop and snap on computers and cant get the plug in ,, and a lot of them have to have the motor to be running to get a code ,,

sheldonbaker1973
04-12-2013, 01:22 AM
sorry i guess its a mefi its about 10inches long about 4 or 5 inches wide with one plug at each end if that hekps ... hey thanks guys for this tooo

mikeg205
04-12-2013, 08:56 AM
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/codemate-tester-mefi-code-reader-p-2459.html?gclid=CIPTwr-JxbYCFQNlMgodYwUA3g

$59.00

sheldonbaker1973
04-12-2013, 10:14 AM
thAts where I bought my motor from lol

mikeg205
04-12-2013, 10:24 AM
DOn't they have support they can offer you?

sheldonbaker1973
04-12-2013, 04:42 PM
they offer on what motor to buy lol ,... , this is a electrical issue and know i think if i get it fix and it happens again ,,, that its going to be never ending ,,, so im about to carb it there is not that big of diff in fuel milage ,,, but in the long run the carb is going to save money ... as like if the dam ecm is out ,,1000 bucks right there ... and if there is a short in the wireing plugs fro the ecm ,,, so i know a few guys out there running a carb whats the ups and downs i have to draw the line guys some where guys lets see ... tbi is great when it works i know but a carb is good less money no ecm to mess with ,,, let me here what u guys have to say ...

ahhudgins
04-12-2013, 05:55 PM
I would strongly suggest that you take it to someone who has worked on these systems before you continue to randomly jumper wires together to see what happens. You may end up with a fried ECM and a huge repair bill. You need a volt/ohm meter to do at least the most basic checks.

On my 95 TBI, my kill switch (lanyard) will not allow my fuel pump to prime when the key is in the RUN position. You said your fuel pump primes so I don't think it's your kill switch. If I were starting from scratch on your motor, I would look at the throttle position sensor (as Mike mentioned) and the IC module on the distributor....most likely the wiring to the ECM. If you have a open or short in the TP sensor wiring, it should throw out a code from the ECM but I'm not 100% sure if it would allow the injectors to fire. If you unplug the connector at the TP sensor, you should have 5V DC across the grey and black wires (supplied from ECM with key at RUN). Next I would disconnect the battery and remove the connector J1 from the ECM and check the wiring to the TP sensor with the ohm meter while the sensor is moved from end to end. J1 pins 10, 15, and 13.

Another cause of your problem could be the IC module or the wiring. If the ECM does not see the pulse train from the IC module, it will NOT fire the injectors. I had a intermittent problem with my 95 and I used an oscilloscope to check the pulse train. A DVM will give you a DC value, but it's not a true test of the output.

ahhudgins
04-12-2013, 06:03 PM
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/codemate-tester-mefi-code-reader-p-2459.html?gclid=CIPTwr-JxbYCFQNlMgodYwUA3g

$59.00

That's what I ordered. Installed it permanently on the boat.
http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=36502&highlight=codemate

sheldonbaker1973
04-21-2013, 01:08 AM
not good the ecm is junk cant get one so going with a new set up

mikeg205
04-21-2013, 08:58 AM
Show pics of new set up ...when done... I believe these guys have a solution for the ECM. Sorry to read the ecm is dead. :(

What caused the need for new motor in the first place...

The one picture shows rust on the ECU and up the one wire harness. Was the motor partially submerged?

I am sure you will be able to sell some of the parts from the existing fuel system.. i.e. the throttle body and fuel pump - since I assume you will use a different fuel pump for carb.