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View Full Version : bama to Spy on Citizens' Bank Accounts


Dino Don
03-14-2013, 10:03 AM
Read the complete article and then draw your own conclusions from it.


http://news.newsmax.com/?K6C6aiehnyl8pe3kMuZBk6JB2QPkxlU1K&http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/spy-agencies-americans-finances/2013/03/13/id/494604?s=al&promo_code=12CA7-1

GoneBoatN
03-14-2013, 10:25 AM
Like many things in life it's a balancing act between freedom and protection...

02ProstarSammyD
03-14-2013, 10:32 AM
technology killed freedom a long time ago. How about the gov't stops spending money violating rights and focuses on fixing their f-ups.

CantRepeat
03-14-2013, 01:08 PM
I assume bama means Obama.

captain planet
03-14-2013, 01:28 PM
Like many things in life it's a balancing act between freedom and protection...

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Thomas Jefferson

TayMC197
03-14-2013, 02:11 PM
Bank of Certa sounds like a good place to keep my money.

thatsmrmastercraft
03-14-2013, 02:13 PM
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Thomas Jefferson

Well played. http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/ani/ani_tiphat.gif

captain planet
03-14-2013, 02:41 PM
Well played. http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/ani/ani_tiphat.gif

My pleasure. ;)

Americans need to pick up The Constitution once and a while and read it. :mad:

76S&S
03-14-2013, 02:59 PM
Since I'm a Bama fan and from the state of AL, can we please refer to that guy as the big O, little O, Obama or basically anything but Bama............please!

shepherd
03-14-2013, 03:41 PM
Americans need to pick up The Constitution once and a while and read it. :mad:

Yes sir! Especially the ones in the Capitol Building.

GoneBoatN
03-14-2013, 05:51 PM
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Thomas Jefferson

My pleasure. ;)

Americans need to pick up The Constitution once and a while and read it. :mad:

Thomas Jefferson lived from 1743 to 1826. It's sort of like saying we should still keep defending ourselves with the musket. Unfortunately we live in the day and age where people for enough money can get access to stuff they should not. Just one more tool for defense against the seriously bad people. People want total freedom and then something like 9/11 (pick the event to your liking) happens and then they cry that enough was not done to stop it. How exactly to you find the bad people if you don't go looking? It's not like they have a sign tattooed to their forehead.

Oh, by the way, I have read the constitution, thank you very much/ :mad::mad::mad:

thatsmrmastercraft
03-14-2013, 07:01 PM
Thomas Jefferson lived from 1743 to 1826. It's sort of like saying we should still keep defending ourselves with the musket. Unfortunately we live in the day and age where people for enough money can get access to stuff they should not. Just one more tool for defense against the seriously bad people. People want total freedom and then something like 9/11 (pick the event to your liking) happens and then they cry that enough was not done to stop it. How exactly to you find the bad people if you don't go looking? It's not like they have a sign tattooed to their forehead.

Oh, by the way, I have read the constitution, thank you very much/ :mad::mad::mad:

Perhaps you missed this part from the article:

"He said one of the problems with the plan is that there is “wiggle room” on how the information will be used. In the past, the National CounterTerrorism Center, which is supposed to ensure that critical threat information is shared among various agencies, was obliged to “promptly identify and purge any innocent U.S. person information.”

But the guidelines were subsequently loosened so that “not only can they keep the data for a number of years, but they can continue to use it,” German said."


I don't think anyone suggests that we don't look for the bad guys, but this isn't supposed to be an open invitation to compile bank records of people who fall into the "innocent" category, as suggested by the article.

GoneBoatN
03-14-2013, 07:45 PM
Perhaps you missed this part from the article:

"He said one of the problems with the plan is that there is “wiggle room” on how the information will be used. In the past, the National CounterTerrorism Center, which is supposed to ensure that critical threat information is shared among various agencies, was obliged to “promptly identify and purge any innocent U.S. person information.”

But the guidelines were subsequently loosened so that “not only can they keep the data for a number of years, but they can continue to use it,” German said."


I don't think anyone suggests that we don't look for the bad guys, but this isn't supposed to be an open invitation to compile bank records of people who fall into the "innocent" category, as suggested by the article.

One of the problems with analyzing data is knowing exactly what you are looking for at the time you are looking at the data. So there is a need to keep it. Seems to me terrorism is typically long planned out. Terrorist operate over a long period of time. It would be necessary to keep the information for a long period of time to be useful.

The point becomes that the information is used only for the intent that it was obtain and that it does not become public. IMO someone stating "wiggle room" (surely the document does not use these terms) is using FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) to incite people rather than state facts. I myself would want to know the details before passing judgement on it. I myself believe that to this day the CIA and others are a necessary evil.

But, yes I did skip over that part while reading/skimming the article. :o

mikeg205
03-14-2013, 07:49 PM
Ah this is a slippery slope... unfortunately our leaders continue down a path once a gate is open.....

JimN
03-14-2013, 08:12 PM
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Thomas Jefferson

So, no thoughts of your own?:D

JimN
03-14-2013, 08:14 PM
I never wanted to live in another country until recently. The problem is, "Which one?".

It's too bad- two of my ancestors came here from England in 1654.

thatsmrmastercraft
03-14-2013, 11:48 PM
One of the problems with analyzing data is knowing exactly what you are looking for at the time you are looking at the data. So there is a need to keep it. Seems to me terrorism is typically long planned out. Terrorist operate over a long period of time. It would be necessary to keep the information for a long period of time to be useful.

The point becomes that the information is used only for the intent that it was obtain and that it does not become public. IMO someone stating "wiggle room" (surely the document does not use these terms) is using FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) to incite people rather than state facts. I myself would want to know the details before passing judgement on it. I myself believe that to this day the CIA and others are a necessary evil.

But, yes I did skip over that part while reading/skimming the article. :o

No argument on this.

GoneBoatN
03-14-2013, 11:53 PM
I never wanted to live in another country until recently. The problem is, "Which one?".

It's too bad- two of my ancestors came here from England in 1654.

Too bad Canada is so cold and taxes (based only upon hearsay) are so high. Maybe global warming will make it more appealing. ;) It would be interesting to hear some other country complaining about all the illegal aliens from the US.

thatsmrmastercraft
03-14-2013, 11:55 PM
Too bad Canada is so cold and taxes (based only upon hearsay) are so high. Maybe global warming will make it more appealing. ;) It would be interesting to hear some other country complaining about all the illegal aliens from the US.

Great point. Might have to wait a while to find any.

JimN
03-15-2013, 12:03 AM
Too bad Canada is so cold and taxes (based only upon hearsay) are so high. Maybe global warming will make it more appealing. ;) It would be interesting to hear some other country complaining about all the illegal aliens from the US.

I'm sick of the cold and Milwaukee's crappy roads, etc. Beats the crap out of cars and trucks, yet they just passed legislation that makes it impossible to sue the city for damages caused by potholes. I'm waiting for someone to hit a major hole, go out of control and kill someone. The shytestorm will be impressive- I'm sure it will be noticed outside of our city.

GoneBoatN
03-15-2013, 12:09 AM
Ah this is a slippery slope... unfortunately our leaders continue down a path once a gate is open.....

I lecture, I mean talk to, my son all the time about not starting down slippery slopes. Dang kid just keeps on snowboarding...

Dino Don
03-15-2013, 08:03 AM
Ah this is a slippery slope... unfortunately our leaders continue down a path once a gate is open.....

That's how the crap starts--Slick Willie and others who help start the housing mess under the pretense that everyone needed a house. Most all of us can understand that, but the details is what killed us. What most people don't understand, I guess, is that this isn't about helping anyone except a select few. This is about votes and staying in power and being part of the up and coming ruling class, if history proves it to be correct. Chuck Colson hit the nail on the head years ago when he said we are giving up personal freedoms and benefits for things we think will help us. When in reality we are selling out and the results will not be good. I'm a vet, my son is a Persian Gulf war vet, my father in law 2 combat tours, missing in action for a time, vet of Vietnam. My uncles were WWII vets and one a German POW. This p... me off! So many have given so much and this stuff goes on.

My Dad always drove home the point by telling me that no one owes me anything--I had to get up off my ###and go to work. I have done that all my life and it sure hasn't hurt me but that just doesn't seem to be the model now days. If those interviews Jay Leno does of the people off the street being asked questions about the who, what, when and where events of the world doesn't tell us the story then I don't know what will. Just promise them something for nothing and you get elected and those of us who work pay for it.

Sorry for the rant but this s...Ks!! :mad:

76S&S
03-15-2013, 09:02 AM
I never wanted to live in another country until recently. The problem is, "Which one?".



I recently told my wife, that it may be in our kids best interest to get their education and then move to another country. This place is going to he!! in a hand basket!

mikeg205
03-15-2013, 09:43 AM
I lecture, I mean talk to, my son all the time about not starting down slippery slopes. Dang kid just keeps on snowboarding...

Doh!

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-shocked019.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-shocked019.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-shocked019.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-angry009.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

mikeg205
03-15-2013, 09:44 AM
That's how the crap starts--Slick Willie and others who help start the housing mess under the pretense that everyone needed a house. Most all of us can understand that, but the details is what killed us. What most people don't understand, I guess, is that this isn't about helping anyone except a select few. This is about votes and staying in power and being part of the up and coming ruling class, if history proves it to be correct. Chuck Colson hit the nail on the head years ago when he said we are giving up personal freedoms and benefits for things we think will help us. When in reality we are selling out and the results will not be good. I'm a vet, my son is a Persian Gulf war vet, my father in law 2 combat tours, missing in action for a time, vet of Vietnam. My uncles were WWII vets and one a German POW. This p... me off! So many have given so much and this stuff goes on.

My Dad always drove home the point by telling me that no one owes me anything--I had to get up off my ###and go to work. I have done that all my life and it sure hasn't hurt me but that just doesn't seem to be the model now days. If those interviews Jay Leno does of the people off the street being asked questions about the who, what, when and where events of the world doesn't tell us the story then I don't know what will. Just promise them something for nothing and you get elected and those of us who work pay for it.

Sorry for the rant but this s...Ks!! :mad:


Roger that!

captain planet
03-15-2013, 12:58 PM
Thomas Jefferson lived from 1743 to 1826. It's sort of like saying we should still keep defending ourselves with the musket. Unfortunately we live in the day and age where people for enough money can get access to stuff they should not. Just one more tool for defense against the seriously bad people. People want total freedom and then something like 9/11 (pick the event to your liking) happens and then they cry that enough was not done to stop it. How exactly to you find the bad people if you don't go looking? It's not like they have a sign tattooed to their forehead.

Oh, by the way, I have read the constitution, thank you very much/ :mad::mad::mad:

Your right, we should be allowed to own bazookas if we want to defend ourselves, especially against the government. Why do you think they want to ban AR's and the like? Because they pose a deterrent to the government to control us. We are no match to them if we just have hand-guns and shot-guns.

I would rather face terrorism in the face than have our completely bloated, out of control government snooping around in my bank records or any of my other personal correspondence. They have no right to do so, and we have the 4th Amendment that says,
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

captain planet
03-15-2013, 01:04 PM
I have to say, I find this thread fascinating. Is snooping in our bank records the tipping point? I would have thought gun control would have been it, but it seems that thread has cooled off even though that threat is still alive, very much alive. The question is, will these schmucks that are bringing this legislation up survive the next election cycle? Will feinstein win the next election (california....I know, I know), will lindsay graham and john mcciain and these other dirt-bags survive another election or are we ready to throw these people out on the streets? Time will tell.....but I like what I am seeing here.

thatsmrmastercraft
03-15-2013, 01:07 PM
I have to say, I find this thread fascinating. Is snooping in our bank records the tipping point? I would have thought gun control would have been it, but it seems that thread has cooled off even though that threat is still alive, very much alive. The question is, will these schmucks that are bringing this legislation up survive the next election cycle? Will feinstein win the next election (california....I know, I know), will lindsay graham and john mcciain and these other dirt-bags survive another election or are we ready to throw these people out on the streets? Time will tell.....but I like what I am seeing here.

This is a great thread indeed. It's unfortunate that it appears most people don't remember these issues when they vote.

mikeg205
03-15-2013, 01:15 PM
I have to say, I find this thread fascinating. Is snooping in our bank records the tipping point? I would have thought gun control would have been it, but it seems that thread has cooled off even though that threat is still alive, very much alive. The question is, will these schmucks that are bringing this legislation up survive the next election cycle? Will feinstein win the next election (california....I know, I know), will lindsay graham and john mcciain and these other dirt-bags survive another election or are we ready to throw these people out on the streets? Time will tell.....but I like what I am seeing here.

Unfortunately - we in this thread are but a small minority... :(

captain planet
03-15-2013, 01:24 PM
Unfortunately - we in this thread are but a small minority... :(

Maybe true, but liberty and freedom are popular messages and the movement is growing. Question is, will it grow fast enough to take over? More and more people are getting disgusted with our 'leaders' and are looking for another direction (10% approval rating for congress). I see how many views 'The Ron Paul' thread gets each time I put up a new post. People are waking up....slowly, but waking up nonetheless.

JLowder
03-15-2013, 02:14 PM
Will feinstein win the next election (california....I know, I know), .

Yes, she will win again. The GOP in my state gave up many years ago. Look at Gov. Moonbeam. Meg Whitman had all the money and GOP support and still couldn't beat Brown. The GOP realized California is a waste and stopped spending money on large state elections. Don't even bring up Arnold either, because he was as liberal as they come.

I too have thought about moving to another country. Problem is, haven't yet found one better... That being said, I did have a friend visit Warsaw Poland recently. Loved the people. Said most attended church and being that they suffered first hand communist rule, gun ownership was encouraged.

GoneBoatN
03-16-2013, 01:13 AM
Yes, she will win again. The GOP in my state gave up many years ago. Look at Gov. Moonbeam. Meg Whitman had all the money and GOP support and still couldn't beat Brown. The GOP realized California is a waste and stopped spending money on large state elections. Don't even bring up Arnold either, because he was as liberal as they come.

I too have thought about moving to another country. Problem is, haven't yet found one better... That being said, I did have a friend visit Warsaw Poland recently. Loved the people. Said most attended church and being that they suffered first hand communist rule, gun ownership was encouraged.

Feinstein wins mostly by taking the large cities (SF, San Jose, LA, Sac, etc). Unfortunately no stopping that freight train. Maybe someday it will crash and burn. CA would be a really good state without those cities.

captain planet
03-20-2013, 01:00 PM
.......all I can say is, wow.......

onewheat
03-20-2013, 01:39 PM
I recently told my wife, that it may be in our kids best interest to get their education and then move to another country. This place is going to he!! in a hand basket!

It may be in their best interest to move to another country and get an education. I guess It's all relative, but the good old USA isn't turning out the world's smartest kids anymore. Unfortunately, you are right about where we are heading.

tideengineer
03-25-2013, 09:24 AM
Since I'm a Bama fan and from the state of AL, can we please refer to that guy as the big O, little O, Obama or basically anything but Bama............please!

I'm with you man...I only opened because I saw "bama"...

mikeg205
03-25-2013, 11:02 AM
we are slowly giving away all our privacy bit by bit... it's showing up more and more... went to a bar in Bartlett, Il - Cadillac Ranch - (yes...line dancing... ;) ) They scan everyone's license or ID for proof of attendance - they say it's a law so that the village can go after the bar if the worst happens and someone is over served and hurts themselves or someone else.

I am 53 - really? gray hair gets carded? My car's GPS(black box) already indicates where I have been and how I drive - they claim..it's for my protection... bull poop.

Benjamin Franklin was right... bye bye best republic on planet. Hopefully this is the Jimmy Carter era again Part Deux and the Reagan era will begin in 4 years...

thatsmrmastercraft
03-25-2013, 11:06 AM
we are slowly giving away all our privacy bit by bit... it's showing up more and more... went to a bar in Bartlett, Il - Cadillac Ranch - (yes...line dancing... ;) ) They scan everyone's license or ID for proof of attendance - they say it's a law so that the village can go after the bar if the worst happens and someone is over served and hurts themselves or someone else.

I am 53 - really? gray hair gets carded? My car's GPS(black box) already indicates where I have been and how I drive - they claim..it's for my protection... bull poop.

Benjamin Franklin was right... bye bye best republic on planet. Hopefully this is the Jimmy Carter era again Part Deux and the Reagan era will begin in 4 years...

So there may be some light at the end of the tunnel after all??????

mikeg205
03-25-2013, 12:01 PM
So there may be some light at the end of the tunnel after all??????

like a train?

captain planet
03-25-2013, 01:13 PM
we are slowly giving away all our privacy bit by bit... it's showing up more and more... went to a bar in Bartlett, Il - Cadillac Ranch - (yes...line dancing... ;) ) They scan everyone's license or ID for proof of attendance - they say it's a law so that the village can go after the bar if the worst happens and someone is over served and hurts themselves or someone else.

I am 53 - really? gray hair gets carded? My car's GPS(black box) already indicates where I have been and how I drive - they claim..it's for my protection... bull poop.

Benjamin Franklin was right... bye bye best republic on planet. Hopefully this is the Jimmy Carter era again Part Deux and the Reagan era will begin in 4 years...

I would tell them to 'f'-off and if they want my business they will accept cash, otherwise I'm gone. Especially when at my age it is obvious I'm old enough to drink.

You ought to disconnect that black box as well as the Onstar, assuming it is a GM.