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AussieMC
01-14-2013, 04:17 PM
This is a general observation/question that I thought I would post.

One of the members of our ski club, Tim Bradstreet, has recently been sponsored by MasterCraft, and received his beautiful new 2013 197/6.0l Ilmor. I've skied behind it quite a lot recently and have noticed the wakes are slightly harder than my 2003 197tt. In looking at the 2 boats on the dock (not clear in this photo) the 2013's swim platform is almost touching the water and the 2003 is 2" out of the water, both had the same amount of fuel etc. and my boat has a mini tower. My guess was his motor had to be heavier, so I got on the MasterCraft web site and saw the 190/197 platform is now listed at 3200lbs where as in my manual the same 190/197 is listed at 2800lbs. (this doesn't specify any particular engine). Surely the engine can't be 400lbs heavier. It's like putting an additional 2 people in my boat when you are skiing. Where does the additional weight come from?
88712

GT500 MC
01-14-2013, 04:57 PM
Don't know about the weight---I can't believe it comes from just the engine. Anyway, that is a sweet picture. Nice rigs.....

rodltg2
01-14-2013, 05:46 PM
That's because Zero Off weighs more than Perfect Pass.

Ben
01-14-2013, 05:49 PM
Sorry, no help either, but agree on the cool pic. I like the old one anyway. Maybe w/o tower.

ski_king
01-14-2013, 06:13 PM
I have no idea, but am guessing the specs may have been off in 03.

Great looking boats! Too bad the registration numbers are required to be so large down under.

AussieMC
01-14-2013, 06:20 PM
I'm pretty sure the spec's were at 2800lbs up untill 2010. Maybe other 190/197 owners will chime in.

AussieMC
01-14-2013, 06:28 PM
I just had a look at 2010, 2011 & 2012 brochures (I happen to have them lying around) the 197 is at 2800lbs each year, the 190 is at 2620lbs in 2010-11. Very curious:confused:

AussieMC
01-14-2013, 06:33 PM
The rego numbers have to be at least 6" tall on power vessels, can be smaller on sail boats & PWC's.
Each rego has to have the registered state letter at the end e.g. N = New South Wales / Q = Queensland

DooSPX
01-15-2013, 08:42 AM
I'm going out on a limb and saying maybe the tower on your 03 TT adding more weight to the bow, therefore lifting the stern up some. Also, maybe not 400 pounds worth, but all the new fanciness (billet rails, etc) account for some extra weight.

gweaver
01-15-2013, 09:27 AM
Maybe the new one has slightly thicker fiberglass or is slightly wider? If they've changed construction methods just a bit, I can see the weight adding up quickly- thicker fiberglass, more epoxy, wider stringers to stiffen the hull, etc. Lots of changes that would be invisible except on a scale.
G

corey
01-15-2013, 10:33 AM
The weights were updated on MC boats across the board, the way I understand it the boats are built using more fiberglass (especially resin) than engineering had figured so while the 197 didn't change the posted weights were a bit lower than the actual weights.

Technically the ILMOR engine weighs a bit more due to it's cast iron exhaust manifolds, the block itself if the same so no difference there block to block. The 6.0 liter does weigh more than the 5.7 and likely more than the 03' 6.0 (the 03' was an LQ block, in 07' this was swapped for a full cast LY block).

Not sure on the platform height, technically these two boats use different platform brackets but a 197 platform sits in the same spot on the hull across all years (at least as I recall).

Final difference would be the prop. I know swapping the prop on a 5.7 Liter TT has a pretty big effect on the wake.

jwroblew
01-15-2013, 12:11 PM
...Technically the ILMOR engine weighs a bit more due to it's cast iron exhaust manifolds, the block itself if the same so no difference there block to block. The 6.0 liter does weigh more than the 5.7 and likely more than the 03' 6.0 (the 03' was an LQ block, in 07' this was swapped for a full cast LY block).

I think a 2003 would still have the cast iron manifolds as well. I don't think Indmar went aluminum until around 2005 or 2007.

corey
01-15-2013, 12:25 PM
You're right, the 03 would have been cast iron. I haven't weighed them both so not sure about the differences in weight between those and the ILMOR manifolds.

Ryan
01-15-2013, 12:46 PM
I'm put my money on resin and the engine as the causes for change in stated weight.

I like Doo's theory on the tower leaning the boat forward. The vinyl is thickerm but I doubt that adds a net increase of even 30lbs.

AussieMC
01-15-2013, 03:55 PM
It's very interesting that they have added more resin/fibreglass, I remember around 2007 there was a rumour/talk about they had actually lightened the hull.
The tower could have a minor impact (I'm not sure how much weight is in a mini tower) but the weight from the tower is essentially over seats section of the hull, so the effect forward or back would be minimal.
I have updated my platform brackets to the Alloy fold down, so that eliminates that variable.
The vinyl overall, and padding around the gunnel's etc. is thicker, but I agree, there may be only 30lbs there.
I was just curious about the wake/weight difference in an essentially 10 year unchanged boat.

rodltg2
01-15-2013, 04:20 PM
I don't think that the wake variation is solely affected by stated weight difference whether its accurate or not. It has do something with the hull and mold. There is no way each boat, especially from 10 years ago, comes out exactly the same.

JohnE
01-15-2013, 06:51 PM
I don't think that the wake variation is solely affected by stated weight difference whether its accurate or not. It has do something with the hull and mold. There is no way each boat, especially from 10 years ago, comes out exactly the same.

And ther was a rumor (maybe true) that some of the molds perfomed better than others. At least years ago.

rhsprostar
01-15-2013, 08:57 PM
From what I understand, there are at least two different molds for the 197 and although there are supposed to be identical, in reality they turn out two slightly different hulls. Supposedly one has better slalom wake than the other..........so I've heard......:rolleyes:

rodltg2
01-15-2013, 11:41 PM
Someone needs to toss the bad one then.

blackTT
01-16-2013, 02:58 AM
Possibly could be all the sound suppression they now run in the boats to keep them quieter....... The new models are a million times quieter then the earlier rattlers.......

AussieMC
01-16-2013, 03:44 PM
I don't think the "mufflers" have anything to do with it. and we are still talking a documented 400lbs. There is another member in our club that has a 35th anniversary 190, his and mine boat are substantially quieter that any of the boats I've driven in the last 5-6 years.

rhsprostar
01-16-2013, 07:44 PM
With respect to 197's, I have driven an 09, 10 and 11 all with MCX and they all were louder than my 04 with Lq9......by far.....

blackTT
01-17-2013, 04:51 PM
Just the engine hatch in my 08 wieghs 80 pound, I guess you only have to find 5 pound throughout the boat to get your 400. Maybe factory heats, heated seats,(the the TT models) all the computer hardware to go from carbs to injected. Individually they probably weigh not much but once you star adding everything up I'm sure you'd come close,

east tx skier
01-17-2013, 08:19 PM
And ther was a rumor (maybe true) that some of the molds perfomed better than others. At least years ago.

Another rumor was that, around 2007, the 197 had a couple of hundred lbs. shaved out of the bow one way or another.

/assume our sources from that time period are the same.

AussieMC
01-20-2013, 03:59 PM
Just the engine hatch in my 08 wieghs 80 pound, I guess you only have to find 5 pound throughout the boat to get your 400. Maybe factory heats, heated seats,(the the TT models) all the computer hardware to go from carbs to injected. Individually they probably weigh not much but once you star adding everything up I'm sure you'd come close,

I think you're missing the point. The original question was why the 2013 is 400lbs heavier than all the previous years. The same boat from 2002 - 2012 was listed as 2800lbs. This listed weight would not include the options.

blackTT
01-20-2013, 08:22 PM
Ohhhh, I thought you were talking about why is a 2013 heavier then a 2003. I didn't realise it was only this year. I'm ordering on hopefully this week.... I could ask our Sydney dealer. Ps know anyone after a 2008? Hahahahah

CC2MC
01-20-2013, 11:46 PM
Well, I know that CC had the same issue. Some of their earlier models were a few hundred lbs lighter and with the ski 200, they were trying not to add weight and try to get back a little closer to the original weight. I think it still ended up being a little heavier as i recall. I really doubt that the laminate schedule changed in 2013, but they may have changed or added something for structural strength, but 400lbs is a little much. Have you measured where the swim platform hits the transom on both boats to make sure they are in the same spot? Is the wake on the newer boat a little bigger than yours?