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Nick911
01-08-2013, 10:06 PM
Curious if anyone has been having any issues thus far with the 2013's, particularly, with the new Murphy Controls system?

Wondering if the 2012 issues have been resolved with the move away from Medallion?

How was your 2013 been running, good, bad, or otherwise?

jason95gt
01-09-2013, 12:31 PM
Murphy has been a great system so far, and much easier to use.

Nick911
01-09-2013, 12:42 PM
Awesome to hear. Looking forward to plumbing in some extra sacs too now that we are back to timers.

501s
01-09-2013, 04:36 PM
I haven't seen a single post regarding 2013 issues. That really positive news. I think the move to Murphy made all the difference. It's interesting that one component can effect a boat this much but I guess with computers this is the case.

kskonn
01-09-2013, 05:52 PM
Well I believe the Murphy system is the comple wiring harnesses, ECM and the control screen. That is what makes it so good, one system designed specific for each model. they are a customer of mine and they do a great job and a ton of testing.

KahunaCraft
01-09-2013, 09:32 PM
I'm pretty sure MC committed to fixing all of the minor computer bugs with Medallion, I've exchanged emails with my dealer and them on it. It would be great to hear from 2012 owners that received the most recent software upgrade (nov/dec 2012) to get positive confirmation all is fixed.

Based on PM with various TT'ers, their 2012 issues were pretty minor and they stated that the Murphy system alone was not the root cause of their desire to move to a 2013. That being said, there were issues in 2012....and I agree the Murphy System will be better. At first glance it could be a Blackberry Playbook to iPad comparison, we'll just have to see what Blackberry 10 holds... (Laughing at the similarities).

Not to worry, I'll swap out the Medallion for the Apple iOS control system in 2017.... :-)

Sent using my iPad running Murphy OS

Aric'sX15
01-11-2013, 01:25 AM
Just curious, is the old medallion system worth taking a colossal hit on a boat? I've seen so many 2012's on the market lately, and selling a 1 year old boat and taking a (+-)10 thousand dollar hit would probably keep me in the boat until things got worked out. So curious to see if you guys think it's worth it. Especially for the exact same boat you already had.

Nick911
01-11-2013, 01:50 AM
My hit wasn't near 10K. Even if it was, that's only a 10% depreciation, small for first year, plus the value added on the 2013's...no brainer!

KahunaCraft
01-11-2013, 07:18 AM
some edits...

That was the exact question I struggled with. So here's how I broke that down...

If an option is installed from factory, unless the glass has to be remoulded, it doesn't bother me too much as I could add it afterward. Similar to being able to put a trailer hitch on a vehicle, if I can add/delete/modify after the fact, without much drama and within 20-30% of what it costed as a factory option, I didn't care. The square rails and new aluminium parts can be bought from MC by design for about $500, the new crisscross pattern pads (love them) on the hips/walkway are likely at most another $1200, remote on the console $400 (pro install), cool new carpet $1200 and I don't want the new windshield (would likely require glass repairs) or new cans but call them $3000. $6,600 total. I'd pick and choose options, but that's the all in cost, excluding Murphy.

Also if one or two or even three features would cost more that the above but less than the depreciation, then it doesn't matter. What I mean by this, is that I bought the boat for the vinyl, glass, motor and creature comforts. I am a technologist by trade, so the electronics need to work but I don't expect them to be as clean as an iPad interface. Simply put, the cruise needs to be accurate, the ballast systems should be fairly automated and the stereo system needs to work.

I looked into these problems in October and concluded that worst case scenario, if MC decided to change its rich history of after sales service and not stand behind its products (very very low probability, quite frankly a solid warranty record is one of the key reasons people buy MC), then I'd have to pay to replace Medallion of the key components. The ECM, the screen (2,000 based on my phone calls to FW Murphy), ECM, wiring harnesses, zero off etc 5,000. Install, 3,000. All in, 10,000...likely high, but close enough. edit - that's the retail cost, suspect with enough arm-wrestling, it could be less than 1/2 that cost.

So, then it came down to support, well the warranty on a lot will be the dealer. So it is a moot point as the dealer plays a huge role in solving problems with these boats. My dealer has a solid reputation for standing behind what they sell.

The additional costs of plumbing two new pumps over just piggy backing I attributed $2,000 to that.

I'm keeping my 2012 for now, but leaning hard on MC and my dealer. So far great results and instant response from ALL levels of MC on this specific issue. Terry McNew has been an absolute pleasure to work with.

edit: Am I ticked off that MC would build a 2012 boat where I have to look at adding a complete new ballast system in order to add bags - absolutely. Am I ticked that I've had to spend my time figuring out all of the above after spending a fair amount of money on it, yes. But I'm more mad at myself for not doing more research on the 2012 than anything at all. But now that I'm in this situation, I'm doing the best I can to resolve it.

I bought a remote for about 100.00 with a Y plug. New, it floats and solves the stereo issues which were the least of my worries. Consistent cruise, ballast automation and general easy of configuration were my bigger worries.

Will I buy an extended warranty on the touch screen, NO. Because if in 2-3 years it gives me grief, I've made enough noise with MC and my dealer and I trust that they will be there for me. Otherwise, I'll be forced to spend 5-7K to replace the entire Medallion with something else. Keeping in mind that the touch screen could just be removed and I could go with manual controls in 3-5 years from now, and that option could be far less expensive.

second edit... To get back to the subject of this post and follow on question, I think the Murphy system is better. I also think that trading up from a 2012 to a 2013 is an option for every owner, it happens all the time. I'm less worried about the Medallion system now than I was in October based on several (literally dozens) conversations with many stake holders.

It is tough to compare whether Nick or 501 or others got a great deal in comparison to mine because there are a lot of factors at play. Their "all in" price for their 2012 might have been 10K higher than mine with the same options as an example. Frankly, I don't need to know what they paid, because I know what I paid and I know my tolerance to risk and I've been given assurances that the boat will do what I want it to do. Trust me, if the boat doesn't perform to what I've been promised, you'll be seeing a postings of a new X30 in the factory for me in the fall of this year. I'm a betting man and I'd bet that won't be the case.

Nick911
01-11-2013, 10:33 AM
My story is different. While jokingly looking at a 2013 my dealer through me an amazing trade-in number.

Here's my justification:

Savings:
-didn't have to pay the $500 service/winterization fee
-no winter storage
-didn't have to pay for a couple gel repairs
-was able to port over my extended warranty
-saved myself 4K for the aftermarket ballast system I was going to have put in, instead it will cost me 400 bucks
-2013 value added including new trailer, new aluminum accents, new Murphy controls, Zero Off, new platform, tracking fins
-get a new boat with 0 hours (make some money up on the back end as my future theoretical trade is worth more)
-add some options I wish I had on my 2012 (Sirius, low profile trailer, hot shower)
-avoid the possibility of having a hard time selling lest the 2012's be seen as a lemon year

So I still have to write a check but considering all of the above worth it IMO.

bjames
01-11-2013, 10:56 AM
My story is different. While jokingly looking at a 2013 my dealer through me an amazing trade-in number.

Here's my justification:

Savings:
-didn't have to pay the $500 service/winterization fee
-no winter storage
-didn't have to pay for a couple gel repairs
-was able to port over my extended warranty
-saved myself 4K for the aftermarket ballast system I was going to have put in, instead it will cost me 400 bucks
-2013 value added including new trailer, new aluminum accents, new Murphy controls, Zero Off, new platform, tracking fins
-get a new boat with 0 hours (make some money up on the back end as my future theoretical trade is worth more)
-add some options I wish I had on my 2012 (Sirius, low profile trailer, hot shower)
-avoid the possibility of having a hard time selling lest the 2012's be seen as a lemon year

So I still have to write a check but considering all of the above worth it IMO.


The above sounds very familler. I went through that last year and ended up upgrading to new model year with a lot of support from my dealer. At the time it was a no brainer as well.

Fast forward to this year, I guess I was spooked from the experiences I had with my 2012 and decided to throw in the towel with repsect to electronics/technology. By going backwards I have a boat that is more user frendly (upgrading ballast, less systems) and walked away with a large cheque :) I figured if the VDIG ever crapped out, I would replace the instrument with a Zero Off unit. For my boat all the vdig monitors is Perfect Pass, Ballast and temp (Air&Water) and the other engine stuff. (I dont have tabs or wake plate) Much simpler than BIG and I can completly do with out if needed.

If you guys are getting good trad in value for your 2012, then its a good move. No different than people who upgrade their car/truck every year;)

KahunaCraft
01-11-2013, 11:11 AM
Agree with Nick911, I think the term "lemon year" is a little harsh, but does get the point across. Let's face it, the boat's hull, motor (most of it) and other significant components are identical - call it 90% + the same. My best guess is that the two boats will have 5K difference in resale value in 10 years from now, not 10K for that matter - and Medalliion will still be in business. More emphassis will be placed on the condition of the hull, motor, hours and other factors than the touch screen.

GoneBoatN
01-11-2013, 12:42 PM
The above sounds very familler. I went through that last year and ended up upgrading to new model year with a lot of support from my dealer. At the time it was a no brainer as well.

Fast forward to this year, I guess I was spooked from the experiences I had with my 2012 and decided to throw in the towel with repsect to electronics/technology. By going backwards I have a boat that is more user frendly (upgrading ballast, less systems) and walked away with a large cheque :) I figured if the VDIG ever crapped out, I would replace the instrument with a Zero Off unit. For my boat all the vdig monitors is Perfect Pass, Ballast and temp (Air&Water) and the other engine stuff. (I dont have tabs or wake plate) Much simpler than BIG and I can completly do with out if needed.

If you guys are getting good trad in value for your 2012, then its a good move. No different than people who upgrade their car/truck every year;)

Funny thing is that I feel that they had it right in 2010. The 2010 BIG is mostly just a display. Senders are in the ballast tanks. Ballast and attitude adjustment plate are still controlled via switches. The PP would be impossible to use without the BIG screen but I figure I could always switch that to VDIG or work around it another way. If I ever decide to trade the X-15 for an X-25 or an X-Star, I think I would be compelled to go the way Bjames went staying away from over-electronics. Electronics are great when they serve a real purpose. For example, the ECM does a great job of controlling and protecting the engine. Using electronics to replace a simple switch is just stupid. Sometimes technology gets you FUBAR.

bobx1
01-11-2013, 12:56 PM
....Otherwise, I'll be forced to spend 5-7K to replace the entire Medallion with something else....


That is not as bad as I would have thought.


...Keeping in mind that the touch screen could just be removed and I could go with manual controls in 3-5 years from now, and that option could be far less expensive......


I thought these electronic systems were far more integrated and going manual would be a bear to accomplish. Good to hear.

In the end, I would likely take the option that BJames chose and go back to the tired and true method.

501s
01-11-2013, 01:15 PM
Problem is guys, all the new boats will have more electronics not less. This will increase year aftwr year. And the fact is most of the 2012 issues were software NOT hardware. I actually like the BIG and how it functioned, but the software was buggy. While the system was on a MC boat I do not believe it was MC's fault but in fact Medallions fault. They offered the customer and MC virtually no support.

I got to take a 2013 for a test drive and I REALLY liked the new Murphy system. The auto plate feature is awesome for getting on plane and saving some work/gas adjusting the plate. I also love the fact that the timers are back. I think you will see a lot of people very happy with their 2013s and it will be a great year for MC with the addition of the X-10.

JohnE
01-11-2013, 01:56 PM
My understanding is that the problems with the 12's are resolved with the software upgrade.

bcd
01-11-2013, 03:23 PM
I have debated it, but the biggest reason I'm against it is I don't think I should reward Mastercraft (for selling me a sub-par performing boat) with another new boat sale. If I have to take a loss on my 2012, it will more likely be on a new Malibu or Nautique.

I keep saying that once I get my issues worked out, everything will be ok, but when I winterized, I noticed that my engine belt is spraying rubber again. It was supposed to be from a bad belt, but the new belt's doing it again. I also still have to get the software update.

I'm taking it 100 miles back to the dealer for the 5th time in the spring. I'm considering 3 possible outcomes:
1. I pick the boat up and everything works with no further issues, and I continue to own the boat.
2. Issues continue, and I buy a 2013 MC, only if MC steps up and I have to give them very little money to upgrade.
3. Issues continue, and I buy a 2013 Malibu or Nautique. I actually stopped in the Malibu dealer last year during my dealer visit #4. I don't think the Malibu guy thought I was very serious and didn't give me any numbers, but if I stop in again, I bet I could leave with a quote.

I think I've had more issues than most with my boat, so I'm probably ranting a little more than others. I've also got a little bit left to pay off on my 2012, so that's the other main issue swaying my decision. I want the debt gone, not increasing.

jason95gt
01-11-2013, 03:37 PM
bcd, keep in mind that Malibu still uses Medallion and will continue to have the same kinds of problems.

bjames
01-11-2013, 04:04 PM
My understanding is that the problems with the 12's are resolved with the software upgrade.

But the other problem is that the entire boat is controlled by software :D could'nt resist.

FourFourty
01-11-2013, 04:45 PM
My understanding is that the problems with the 12's are resolved with the software upgrade.

Around October 1st, I got the latest upgrade. Version 28, if I remember correctly. I was one of the boats that they chose to Beta test it. (not sure why. maybe just because my dealer was calling them every day about it) It was much better, but still far from perfect. Almost everything was fixed with screen issues, and tab positions, auto level, perfect pass, and screen delays. However, the ballast system was still a complete POS. The fill/empty measurements were still way off, and rider profiles still didn't work correctly.

It was a big leap forward, but still had issues. That being said, they will get it eventually. It is much closer.....

bcd
01-11-2013, 04:54 PM
bcd, keep in mind that Malibu still uses Medallion and will continue to have the same kinds of problems.

Sorry to get this thread off topic, and I don't want to get into a which boat brand is better argument (I've owned 2 MCs and no other inboards), but there are a lot of things that bother me with that statment:

1. You shouldn't make an arguement for MC by saying that Mabilu will have the same kind of problems. It should be that MC will fix their issues.

2. I don't see 2012 Medallion issues anywhere on themalibucrew.com, mainly issues in 09 with monitors going blank.

3. 2012 MC issues are software, which is boat brand specific, not hardware. MC as the OEM is responsible for testing thier software to make sure all of the bugs have been worked out.

4. One of the my bigger complaints about the system is the inability to add aftermarket ballast (w/o PnP), which has nothing to do with Medallion.

FourFourty
01-11-2013, 06:09 PM
Sorry to get this thread off topic, and I don't want to get into a which boat brand is better argument (I've owned 2 MCs and no other inboards), but there are a lot of things that bother me with that statment:

1. You shouldn't make an arguement for MC by saying that Mabilu will have the same kind of problems. It should be that MC will fix their issues.

2. I don't see 2012 Medallion issues anywhere on themalibucrew.com, mainly issues in 09 with monitors going blank.

3. 2012 MC issues are software, which is boat brand specific, not hardware. MC as the OEM is responsible for testing thier software to make sure all of the bugs have been worked out.

4. One of the my bigger complaints about the system is the inability to add aftermarket ballast (w/o PnP), which has nothing to do with Medallion.

I am not sure about 2012 specifically. Although Malivue has been the same system for a few years now. I think they finally worked all of the bugs out of it. It is probably a very good thing that they didnt change it!!

If you had been active on TMC between 2009 and 2011, you would have seen that they had as many issues, if not more than what 2012 MCs had. Heck, a ton of malibus wouldnt even start because of that system. MCs problems were different, but at least the boat would run.....

As for your #3 statement- MC gave certain criteria for a working system. Sure, the whole PnP deal sucks, but its not like you can do that easily in any other wakeboat. It was medallions responsibility to develop a working system for MasterCraft. They failed. I do believe that MC is at fault as well..... They knew that Murphy systems worked better for years now, but they chose to stay with Medallion because the Medallion proposal was cheaper than Murphy. Because of that, MC gave the contract to Medallion. They learned the lesson a bit late.

GoneBoatN
01-11-2013, 06:57 PM
...It was medallions responsibility to develop a working system for MasterCraft. They failed. I do believe that MC is at fault as well...

Mastercraft as the company selling the product to the end user is still responsible for the components they sub out to others. Period. End of Story.

That's like saying, it's not really Dell's (pick any manufacture) fault that the computer (pick any product) they sold you does not work, because they did not manufacture CPU that Intel supplied. You hold the manufacture who sold you the item responsible. It is under OEM's purview to do quality control of the components being supplied to them.

KahunaCraft
01-11-2013, 07:03 PM
I'm in agreement with bcd, I bought a boat from MC and they are ultimately accountable. Playing the 'blame Medallion game' does nothing for me. All signs point to MC knowing this and reacting to it. Spring couldn't come soon enough but part of me wants to put the boat in with at least +3 more releases in the software.

In terms of rewarding them with another boat, good point, I guess anything could happen. I'm going to a Boat Show next weekend and will be speaking with them again on an update for piggy backing. For what it's worth, wakemakers didn't have a solution that involved integrating into the existing, nor did wake blasters, nor super sac'r.

Thank you FourtyFour, that confirms a few things and is very helpful.

Sorry to the OP for the hijack. I believe that you'll find the Murphy experience better, their ppl were very responsive when I emailed and called them.

KahunaCraft
01-11-2013, 07:07 PM
I should add, I'm glad I didn't live through the first 8 months of this science project. Sounds like the dealers and MC compensated people fairly in those cases. I have lived the last 4 months and it hasn't been what I'd call fun.

FourFourty
01-11-2013, 07:38 PM
Mastercraft as the company selling the product to the end user is still responsible for the components they sub out to others. Period. End of Story.

That's like saying, it's not really Dell's (pick any manufacture) fault that the computer (pick any product) they sold you does not work, because they did not manufacture CPU that Intel supplied. You hold the manufacture who sold you the item responsible. It is under OEM's purview to do quality control of the components being supplied to them.

I don't disagree with that.

I was merely trying to point out that the system that MC requested, was not the system they recieved. And I was also trying to point out that MC was not the only boat company that had this problem...... They should have tested the system more, or they should have just went with a more reputeable company. That is where MC failed.

When you rely on a vendor to supply a product, you are taking a risk. You are counting on that vendor to supply you with what you ask for. If they fail to do so, it is your responsability to take care of the party that you supply the completed product to. I agree with that 100%. However, that doesn't mean that medallion doesnt suck. There is only so much that MC could have done to mitigate that risk. MC doesn't have,(nor any other boat company) the internal resources to R&D these systems. Hell, if they did, they would design them themselves.

And MC did take care of these customers. I am one of them, and they treated me VERY fairly. They did everything they could to help me, and that is the bottom line.

GoneBoatN
01-11-2013, 09:04 PM
I don't disagree with that.

I was merely trying to point out that the system that MC requested, was not the system they recieved. And I was also trying to point out that MC was not the only boat company that had this problem...... They should have tested the system more, or they should have just went with a more reputeable company. That is where MC failed.

When you rely on a vendor to supply a product, you are taking a risk. You are counting on that vendor to supply you with what you ask for. If they fail to do so, it is your responsability to take care of the party that you supply the completed product to. I agree with that 100%. However, that doesn't mean that medallion doesnt suck. There is only so much that MC could have done to mitigate that risk. MC doesn't have,(nor any other boat company) the internal resources to R&D these systems. Hell, if they did, they would design them themselves.

And MC did take care of these customers. I am one of them, and they treated me VERY fairly. They did everything they could to help me, and that is the bottom line.

That is why you put out specs and get prototypes back for evaluation. Plenty of companies that can make custom sensors and control units. It's not exactly rocket science anymore. You allow time in your product development cycle to do these things. Medallion Instrumentation Systems did the VDIG and that seemed to work fine. They also did the 2010 BIG which worked just fine. I still wonder why the 2012 software controls remain unresolved.

Aric'sX15
01-11-2013, 11:11 PM
well in 2010 my boat was 93 grand.
i just was informed by my dealer it is now worth 59,999 max. So i wasnt sure what hit you were taking because i took a 20k a year hit.

KahunaCraft
01-12-2013, 07:01 AM
And that is the reason why some people buy new every year. It's a math problem not well understood.

If you bought a boat every year for 10 years, 100k up front, 10k for the trade you would spend 190k over ten years.

But, if the dealer gave you a deep discount, and lets say for 7k on average you depreciate. 100k + 7x9 (1st year was 100) 163k

Winterized and storage, you'd save 15k over ten years. Lots do their own and the mileage will vary. 63-15 = 48k running total

Benefit of never off warranty, call that a wash because new boats every year will suffer some glitches every few years as boat manufacturers are not Apple, nor Rolex and engines have a 3-5yr warranty. As much as we are lead to believe everything is wonderful, it isn't.

Resale after 10 years, 85k which means 48k goes back to 63k in overall loss.

In the end, the guy who keeps the same boat for ten years discovers its worth 40k and observes 60k in depreciation.

Guy who upgraded every year loses about 63k. ... 3k difference, we should all be trading in, ah if that happened the depreciation would sky rocket. But in reality, if another 2008 kicks in, you could be in for a surprise.

Above is not fair math, I agree. The winterization could easily be off by 5-7k, tax loss on the upgrade (laws/rates are diff), new registration fees 500 and the big variable is the 7k of the dealer being nice, it won't always be 7k and could be off by 1k/year (9k over 10) or as much as 10-15k per year, 90-135k over 10 years.

Finally, if you finance the boat, add interest on the delta over the period. if we take the best case scenario of only a 3K difference and bump it by 800-1200 in interest...

To be a little more realistic, if the delta is 30k overall based on above miscalculations, interest would be 8-12k making the difference 38-42k, let's call it 40k.

Where the mistake is made, is to take this 40k, then base calculations on it. Like for 4k per year, I can save the maintenance - No, that was already part of the equation so don't double count a benefit. All of a sudden you're doing madoff-math.

FourFourty
01-12-2013, 08:42 AM
well in 2010 my boat was 93 grand.
i just was informed by my dealer it is now worth 59,999 max. So i wasnt sure what hit you were taking because i took a 20k a year hit.


Wouldn't that be 11k a year?? Or is your boat a 2011?

bcd
01-12-2013, 10:15 AM
My first MC was an 02 X Star that I bought used for 37.5k. I owned it for 5 years and did all my own service, which amounted to only oil change/winterization and replaced the starter (my fault, I got it wet). I traded it in on my 2012 X-2 for 26k. That boat did almost everything I wanted (a little cramped with multiple passengers and not good in rough water). It cost me $2300 a year. I understand that boats are a lot more complicated and have a lot more bells and whistles than mine did, but really, the only whiz bang thing my new boat has over my old (not counting the different hull) is the attitude plate and auto launch.

I spent 70k on my new boat, which I feel is a rediculous amount of money. My decision to buy new was to keep the boat for 10+ years. The under warranty part was just added piece of mind, although I nievely expected to never have any real issues, and have to make maybe 1 trip to the dealer (the only reason my 1st MC ever went to the dealer was to trade it in). What I have found is that for me the warranty is more of a burden. I have to spend 3-4 hours of my time hauling the boat to the dealer, wait 1-2 weeks for them to fix what I could do in 4 hours, and then spend 3-4 more hours going back to pick it up. Also, don't forget about the $200 in gas that I don't get reimbursed for.

The new boat market is what it is. It's not what I thought it is, and it's not for me. Maybe I bought new on a bad year and I got one of the boats with more problems than normal for that year, but for the price of a new boat, I don't want to risk it again. I hopefully won't have to buy a new boat again, I just want the one I did buy to stop having to go into the dealer. From now on, I'll let others take the new boats and the new boat depreciation and work all of the bugs out for me. I'm scared to ask what my 70k boat that has an ugly one off year tower and a one off year control system is worth.

Back to the original topic of the thread, no one's really spoke up about 2013 issues, so that's good news. Although there probably aren't too many out there with any sort of hours accumulated yet.

Nick911
01-12-2013, 10:17 AM
Don't forget about the non-monetary intangibles, such as getting a new boat every year, being able to vary colours and options, no winter headaches, etc...

What about not making insurance payments half the year? I don't anticipate buying a new boat every year, however, for this year, I would have had to be a fool to not take the trade.

bcd
01-12-2013, 10:34 AM
Non-monetary intangibles, being able to vary options - like a $660 standard spare tire?

Sorry, now I'm just being negative.

501s
01-12-2013, 11:28 AM
Nick makes some good points. Getting a new boat is "fun". What's not to enjoy. Plus for us Canadians it gives us something to look forward too over the winter months but an experience like BCD had can really change how a person looks at a new boat. The buyer assumes they won't have all the head aches and problems if a used boat by purchasing new but this isn't always the case.

My previous boat was a Moomba and it was basiclly trouble free for 4 years and 400 hours. I also sold it after 4 years for about 10k less than I paid for it and the guy who bought it got a good deal on a great boat. I can only hope to do as well with my MC but my dealer was so good to me on the move to the 2013 I know I will be a loyal customer for many years.

Nick911
01-12-2013, 12:54 PM
What Id like to emphasize too is I was pretty much given what I paid for the boat on trade. Factor in the 4K I was gonna spend on ballast upgrade = no brainer!

GoneBoatN
01-12-2013, 02:13 PM
What Id like to emphasize too is I was pretty much given what I paid for the boat on trade...

Sounds like you got taken care of quite well. Good for the dealer and good for MC to stand behind the product one way or another!

Nick911
01-12-2013, 02:35 PM
Sounds like you got taken care of quite well. Good for the dealer and good for MC to stand behind the product one way or another!

I told them when I bought that first X25 that I'd bring them some sales and I did.

KahunaCraft
01-12-2013, 08:03 PM
Well, I went to the MC source today and I'm a happy camper.

I was given a summary of the latest 2012 Medallion Software update that is in the dealers hands now and think it will resolve PP and that it allows for piggy backing. To adjust the timers on the 2012 with the touch screens, there is a tool your dealer will use to flash in that config. If they don't have the tool already, it is on the way.

For those without PnP (like mine) you will piggy back a sac and then your dealer will adjust the timer (revolutions of the pump) accordingly. For example if you piggy a 750# bag to the port locker, then have the dealer quadruple the revolutions (250# hard tank + 3 times the length of time) for that pump to fill the hard tank, then the sac. It will also correspond to the % full as a 1000# ballast on the touch screen. So now at 25% full, just the hard tank will be full...and at 75% full, 50% of the bag plus the entire hard tank.

One key item to remember, for some reason he mentioned to not delete 'the boat' in the touch screen config, that will cause you to have to have it reprogrammed by the dealer.

Also note a mute button will be on most or all screens and user interface has been improved for cruise. Also fixed the sensitivity of the screen. The update also addresses PnP boats as well.

He said they tested it thoroughly. To be frank, I was pretty impressed with the level of detail and comprehension of the issues he had.

Nick911
01-12-2013, 08:29 PM
My concern is that for whatever reason the revolutions of the pump as a timing device is totally inaccurate. It was like playing plinko filling my tanks as they were always showing different levels. The only time I knew the levels for sure was when water was coming out of overflows.

Although, sounds like they have taken this thing seriously.

Nick911
01-12-2013, 09:05 PM
Stay tuned, my build pics coming to my inbox Monday. My build is done and lake test is Monday as well.

GoneBoatN
01-12-2013, 10:37 PM
Well, I went to the MC source today and I'm a happy camper.

I was given a summary of the latest 2012 Medallion Software update that is in the dealers hands now and think it will resolve PP and that it allows for piggy backing. To adjust the timers on the 2012 with the touch screens, there is a tool your dealer will use to flash in that config. If they don't have the tool already, it is on the way.

For those without PnP (like mine) you will piggy back a sac and then your dealer will adjust the timer (revolutions of the pump) accordingly. For example if you piggy a 750# bag to the port locker, then have the dealer quadruple the revolutions (250# hard tank + 3 times the length of time) for that pump to fill the hard tank, then the sac. It will also correspond to the % full as a 1000# ballast on the touch screen. So now at 25% full, just the hard tank will be full...and at 75% full, 50% of the bag plus the entire hard tank.

One key item to remember, for some reason he mentioned to not delete 'the boat' in the touch screen config, that will cause you to have to have it reprogrammed by the dealer.

Also note a mute button will be on most or all screens and user interface has been improved for cruise. Also fixed the sensitivity of the screen. The update also addresses PnP boats as well.

He said they tested it thoroughly. To be frank, I was pretty impressed with the level of detail and comprehension of the issues he had.

My concern is that for whatever reason the revolutions of the pump as a timing device is totally inaccurate. It was like playing plinko filling my tanks as they were always showing different levels. The only time I knew the levels for sure was when water was coming out of overflows.

Although, sounds like they have taken this thing seriously.

For 2010 the BIG works by timing how long the pump runs as well; you can call that revolutions I guess. You can adjust the amount of time in the BIG - no dealer involvement required. So yes it was inaccurate as well. To get it to be the most accurate I needed to consistent about having the boat running at 1500 RPM when the pumps are being run. Thing is I rarely remembered to do that when playing with the rider settings. The difference in 2010 was that you could just look at the display to see where the tanks were at because that was driven by senders in the ballast tanks. Once I understood what was going on, I could get the rider settings to function fairly well.

In the end I ended up not using "rider" profiles. I have the ballast timers set so that they will always overfill. I just fill the ballast to where I want it, set the desired speed and drop the throttle. The trim tab I control by hand. Honestly, Mercruiser has it right by having the trim switch right on the throttle where you can adjust it with your thumb - I know, complete heresy for the inboard folks. :D I really liked that because you did not have to go looking for the switch if you needed to adjust the trim. Hum, maybe I just figured out what a good winter project would be.

The efficiency of your impeller will change over time with wear. It's just plain stupid to expect boat owners to return to the dealer, in many cases hundreds of miles away, to have that adjustment done. Also, the only way to tell is set at the correct amount of time is by making that adjustment on the lake. You should see if you can push to have this as a "user" adjustment. Seems to me if they could do it for 2010 they can do it for 2012. Just my :twocents:

Aric'sX15
01-12-2013, 10:39 PM
Wouldn't that be 11k a year?? Or is your boat a 2011?

my boat is a 2010

Nick911
01-12-2013, 11:12 PM
Anyone know if the 2013's have senders for ballast tank levels.

KahunaCraft
01-13-2013, 03:59 AM
Yeah I hear you, they could always do more. I think the impellers for these pumps should be changed before they wear out and aren't accurate. That would reduce trips to the dealer. I get the point on wanting it configurable by the user, but at least now I have the features I needed. Saved me 2k in updating the ballast system.

I also think that on all years that it is wise to have the alternator spinning at a decent speed (1500 rpm) while drawing the current these pumps demand.

I believe the 2013's have a sending unit in the tank.

2013 is going to be a much better year for all of us. I feel that with this update and a few more upgrades I'm doing, I'm close to a 2013 as I can get (still not a 2013 but the gap has narrowed). The 2013 are a nice step forward Nick, you'll be very pleased with your boat and I would have done what you did 10 times out of 10. My scenario is different, I had a trade boat, my dealer has bent over backwards and yesterday solved my concerns.

Nick911
01-13-2013, 10:04 AM
Yeah I hear you, they could always do more. I think the impellers for these pumps should be changed before they wear out and aren't accurate. That would reduce trips to the dealer. I get the point on wanting it configurable by the user, but at least now I have the features I needed. Saved me 2k in updating the ballast system.

I also think that on all years that it is wise to have the alternator spinning at a decent speed (1500 rpm) while drawing the current these pumps demand.

I believe the 2013's have a sending unit in the tank.

2013 is going to be a much better year for all of us. I feel that with this update and a few more upgrades I'm doing, I'm close to a 2013 as I can get (still not a 2013 but the gap has narrowed). The 2013 are a nice step forward Nick, you'll be very pleased with your boat and I would have done what you did 10 times out of 10. My scenario is different, I had a trade boat, my dealer has bent over backwards and yesterday solved my concerns.

My only problem now is I think the 2013 is the last year of current gel scheme.

Aric'sX15
01-14-2013, 03:25 AM
My only problem now is I think the 2013 is the last year of current gel scheme.

Better trade your 13' in on a 14' :D

Stefan
01-24-2013, 02:21 AM
Well, I went to the MC source today and I'm a happy camper.


Thanks Kahuna, this will be one thing Jibber and I HAVE to get done before the season...

can I ask you to post a picture or the numbers of your GDIG/BIG Versions?

KahunaCraft
01-24-2013, 06:58 AM
I'll get a picture once my upgrade is done that captures version numbers. It's -37 C here today, and the upgrade requires a water test, to bring the boat up to 4,000rpm's. sounds like a substantial upgrade. Also read that FourtyFour had a version from October where he confirmed that version (older than this one) was much better that the versions from the summer.

I'm going off of what I was told by MC's prime, the guy was very well versed in the issues. He confirmed that the software is avail to the dealers now, but they needed some sort of tool to do it.

GoneBoatN
01-24-2013, 09:55 AM
I'll get a picture once my upgrade is done that captures version numbers. It's -37 C here today, and the upgrade requires a water test, to bring the boat up to 4,000rpm's. sounds like a substantial upgrade. Also read that FourtyFour had a version from October where he confirmed that version (older than this one) was much better that the versions from the summer.

I'm going off of what I was told by MC's prime, the guy was very well versed in the issues. He confirmed that the software is avail to the dealers now, but they needed some sort of tool to do it.

See 2012 Instrument Systems Manual under owner's manuals in the knowledge center:
http://mastercraft.com/files/manuals/8883c0a8bd29017f61249fbf3632d84b.pdf

It says A Medallion Universal Programming Tool and Harness under Required Tools on page 33 of the PDF.

FourFourty
01-24-2013, 01:21 PM
Also read that FourtyFour had a version from October where he confirmed that version (older than this one) was much better that the versions from the summer.


That is correct. It was a million times better. The only complaint that i still had, was with the ballast levels..... Everything else worked great.

User programability of the ballast timers should help alot. Without level sensors in the tanks, I am not sure how good the system will ever be.....But, it should help enough.