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Classic Boatworks
01-07-2013, 12:08 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen,

I am holding in my grimy little hands the first Airguide speedometer prototype conversion to GPS. I tested this prototype today and it appears to be working well.

No more leaks or clogs!

Stand by….
Dean
Classic Boatworks

mikeg205
01-07-2013, 12:09 AM
Really :) can't wait to see pics.. and a good price... :)

Classic Boatworks
01-07-2013, 12:31 AM
How am I going to get rich if I give "a good price" :firejump:

Seriously, it is too soon to talk price. It will be competitive.

From the front it will look no different. Some modification of the back of the case will be necessary and I need to explore the best internal mounting solution. Right now it fits into the current internal mechanism holder after removing all mechanical parts. A bit awkward my first try. I will work on this aspect. Hopefully, I can show photos of the internal circuit soon. All my questions are not yet answered but I am pretty excited about being able to offer this option soon.

mikeg205
01-07-2013, 12:34 AM
lol... Ok...$325 is the benchmark... ;) vs. smart phone... included ;)... love the idea...

Classic Boatworks
01-07-2013, 12:47 AM
Yeah, but a smart phone doesn't look nearly as cool!

east tx skier
01-07-2013, 11:08 AM
Cool idea. Good luck. Will probably stick with my pitot driven Airguide though. I already have SG, and it is nice to be able to compare speed over water to speed over ground when we are on the river.

mikeg205
01-07-2013, 12:10 PM
Yeah, but a smart phone doesn't look nearly as cool!

You are correct sir!

Classic Boatworks
01-07-2013, 03:24 PM
Cool idea. Good luck. Will probably stick with my pitot driven Airguide though. I already have SG, and it is nice to be able to compare speed over water to speed over ground when we are on the river.

What kind of differences do you see and how is this relevant to skiing? This is a river issue and not applicable to lake use?
Thanks,
Dean

east tx skier
01-07-2013, 03:51 PM
For free skiing, it affects how fast I am moving relative to the water. A boat traveling at 34 mph on the gps in a 2 mph current feels faster or slower to the skier depending on if the boat is traveling with or against the current. Having a traditional speedo (assuming I calibrated it in open water) to compare to the GPS gives me an idea of how much I would want to adjust the speed control to counteract the current.

This is a nonissue in a slalom course since speed over ground, which GPS measures, is all we care about. But in a slalom course, I'm relying on speed control and not paying much attention to my airguide.

Not bagging on your idea. I actually think it's really great. I'm just pointing out one of the advantages, for some, of having a traditional speedo in addition to a GPS speedo.

Classic Boatworks
01-07-2013, 04:02 PM
I didn't think you were "bagging". I just never really understood the importance of speed over water vs. speed over ground. I do understand the effect of current but not in relationship to skiing. As with all things it won't be for everybody... darn it!
Thanks,
Dean

east tx skier
01-07-2013, 05:28 PM
Can't wait to see some video. Good luck with it!

thatsmrmastercraft
01-07-2013, 06:42 PM
Great to hear you are working on this. :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

thatsmrmastercraft
01-07-2013, 06:44 PM
lol... Ok...$325 is the benchmark... ;) vs. smart phone... included ;)... love the idea...

Yeah, but a smart phone doesn't look nearly as cool!

Once you get this worked out, perhaps you can work with one of the phone manufacturers to make a smartphone that looks like an Airguide speedometer. :rolleyes:

03geetee
01-07-2013, 07:25 PM
--------------^----------Has excite!

JTR

Classic Boatworks
01-13-2013, 08:27 PM
I need some input.
One of the limitations I am running into is the total sweep of the needle motor is 315 degrees. On a 3 to 50mph dial, like most of you have, the needle has to do one of two things.

1. To reach 50mph the needle comes to rest at 5 mph.
2. If the needle settles at the post or 3 mph it will not quite reach 50 mph.

How big of a deal is this? I know if I were calibrating for myself I would let the needle set at the post. I have never had a boat that would actually go 50 mph! Does yours?
The gps will actually read up to 200 mph. The limitation is the scale not being over 315 degrees. It appears that finding a motor that will cover a broader range of degrees is problematical
but I am not certain about this.

In YOUR opinion is this a problem that should be resolved before further developement?

Thank you for your input,
Dean

thatsmrmastercraft
01-13-2013, 08:31 PM
My boat is only good for 44 mph so I would prefer the needle to be accurate at the bottom end. Even with the engine plans I have, it won't hit 50 so it's an easy call for me.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
01-13-2013, 08:36 PM
agree with thatsmrmastercraft, "most" mc boats even modified have a hard time reaching the elusive 50 mph mark, at least carbed boats like his and mine...

east tx skier
01-13-2013, 08:55 PM
With little kids, accuracy at the 5--7 mph range is actually pretty important. Agree with the top end not being as critical for pulled sports---even barefooting has to give it up at some point.

03geetee
01-14-2013, 07:06 PM
Yeah dont need top end, Hooligan might need the 200mph capability but the rest of us non mouth breathers like anything thats accurate to 45mph.

JTR

thatsmrmastercraft
01-14-2013, 07:06 PM
Yeah dont need top end, Hooligan might need the 200mph capability but the rest of us non mouth breathers like anything thats acurate to 45mph.

JTR

:uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme

TRBenj
01-15-2013, 10:38 AM
I have a hard time envisioning why anyone would have serious speed holding concerns below surfing speeds (9mph?) unless youre in a no-wake zone or pulling a small child like ETS mentioned. Either case would seemingly benefit more from keeping a close eye on your wake/child to make sure speed is appropriate, rather than keeping an eye on your speedo.

Skiing speeds are most important for accuracy, but knowing the difference between 47mph and 49mph are more important to me than <6mph. I have some boats that will peg the speedos and then some... so maybe the opinion of this mouth breather doesnt count?:confused:

madcityskier
01-15-2013, 11:46 AM
I have a hard time envisioning why anyone would have serious speed holding concerns below surfing speeds (9mph?) unless youre in a no-wake zone or pulling a small child like ETS mentioned. Either case would seemingly benefit more from keeping a close eye on your wake/child to make sure speed is appropriate, rather than keeping an eye on your speedo.

Skiing speeds are most important for accuracy, but knowing the difference between 47mph and 49mph are more important to me than <6mph. I have some boats that will peg the speedos and then some... so maybe the opinion of this mouth breather doesnt count?:confused:

What they're saying, is that not many of us are running at 49 with someone in tow, in fact most of us can't run that. These boats were not designed for those speeds. The difference in 1/2 of a mph while wakeboarding at 20 would likely be much more notable than the 2 between 47-49 while barefooting in my experience.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-15-2013, 11:50 AM
Yeah dont need top end, Hooligan might need the 200mph capability but the rest of us non mouth breathers like anything thats accurate to 45mph.

JTR

I have a hard time envisioning why anyone would have serious speed holding concerns below surfing speeds (9mph?) unless youre in a no-wake zone or pulling a small child like ETS mentioned. Either case would seemingly benefit more from keeping a close eye on your wake/child to make sure speed is appropriate, rather than keeping an eye on your speedo.

Skiing speeds are most important for accuracy, but knowing the difference between 47mph and 49mph are more important to me than <6mph. I have some boats that will peg the speedos and then some... so maybe the opinion of this mouth breather doesnt count?:confused:

Don't tell me Hooligan made it back in as TRBenj:rolleyes::D:D

TRBenj
01-15-2013, 11:56 AM
What they're saying, is that not many of us are running at 49 with someone in tow, in fact most of us can't run that. These boats were not designed for those speeds. The difference in 1/2 of a mph while wakeboarding at 20 would likely be much more notable than the 2 between 47-49 while barefooting in my experience.
Oh I understand what theyre saying, and I agree about the precision at ski speeds being king. If a compromise needs to be made at either extreme (high vs. low speed), and this change effects all of the Airguides that Dean makes, my point is that those of us who can run higher speeds probably care about that more than the 0-5mph range. Heck, I run about 5mph while in gear, at idle... and the Airguides arent accurate that slow anyways.

east tx skier
01-15-2013, 09:20 PM
I have a hard time envisioning why anyone would have serious speed holding concerns below surfing speeds (9mph?) unless youre in a no-wake zone or pulling a small child like ETS mentioned. Either case would seemingly benefit more from keeping a close eye on your wake/child to make sure speed is appropriate, rather than keeping an eye on your speedo.

Skiing speeds are most important for accuracy, but knowing the difference between 47mph and 49mph are more important to me than <6mph. I have some boats that will peg the speedos and then some... so maybe the opinion of this mouth breather doesnt count?:confused:

Tim, you have a good point. The only reason I know what speeds I have pulled the little ones is because I looked at the GPS speedo after the fact, i.e., after I did it by feel and made sure everything looked good behind the boat. High end is probably the better place to know the small differences in speed.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-15-2013, 09:25 PM
Tim, you have a good point. The only reason I know what speeds I have pulled the little ones is because I looked at the GPS speedo after the fact, i.e., after I did it by feel and made sure everything looked good behind the boat. High end is probably the better place to know the small differences in speed.

I guess I couldn't disagree here.

Dean.....if you set the speedometer to be correct at 50 mph, at what point would it be accurate at the low speeds?

CruisinGA
01-15-2013, 09:34 PM
Skiing speeds are most important for accuracy, but knowing the difference between 47mph and 49mph are more important to me than <6mph. I have some boats that will peg the speedos and then some... so maybe the opinion of this mouth breather doesnt count?:confused:

I agree 100%.

Most boat speedos are not very accurate at low speeds, so not loss there, but it would really, really bug me if the speedo range did not include the top speed of the boat...

madcityskier
01-15-2013, 11:10 PM
As long as it's accurate starting at 8-9 it should be fine.

Classic Boatworks
01-19-2013, 04:28 PM
Oh I understand what theyre saying, and I agree about the precision at ski speeds being king. If a compromise needs to be made at either extreme (high vs. low speed), and this change effects all of the Airguides that Dean makes, my point is that those of us who can run higher speeds probably care about that more than the 0-5mph range. Heck, I run about 5mph while in gear, at idle... and the Airguides aren't accurate that slow anyways.

Guys. The speedometer can be calibrated to give you the low end or the high end.

If you choose the high end the needle will settle at 5 mph. So you have a couple mph and maybe a post that the needle will not settle at. This is a visual difference in my opinion. Will you be bothered that your needle is not settling at the bottom of the scale when your boat is stopped?

If you choose the low end of course the opposite is true. Needle settles at the bottom of the scale but can not quite reach 50 mph.

Each speedometer has to be calibrated to its dial scale.
You will have the choice of top or bottom of the scale accuracy. I think it is an aesthetic issue when your boat is stopped an accuracy issue at the top of the 50 mph scale.

Other higher speed speedometers will get a different calibration. I haven't tried yet but an 80 mph model 2025 might have to start at 5 or 10 to reach the full 80 mph (I am guessing here) the scale is very close to the 3 to 50 mph scale. Assume the calibration has to start at 10 to reach the full 80 mph. You would have the same issue. Do I start at 10 and my needle doesn't go to the bottom of the scale or start at 5 and come up slightly short at the top end?

Classic Boatworks
01-21-2013, 10:31 PM
The Bad and the Good

First the Bad: I withdrew my participation in the development of the GPS retrofit with the company I was working with. The business terms are simply unacceptable.

Now the Good: I am not stopping work on the development of a retrofit. I have already begun working with two sources to engineer a retrofit board and a frame to hold the board in the proper position. My goal is to have the board fit onto the frame so you remove the mechanical mechanism and replace it with the new frame, attach the board, attach the dial, attach the adjustment knob (if you have one), and close up your speedometer. I will use your input in the design.

Dean

thatsmrmastercraft
01-21-2013, 11:31 PM
Thanks for all the efforts Dean. :toast:

Classic Boatworks
01-22-2013, 10:55 PM
I am happy to report we have worked out our business terms so are back on track.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-22-2013, 11:01 PM
Great to hear.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
01-22-2013, 11:20 PM
I am happy to report we have worked out our business terms so are back on track.

I wonder if you could scavange a livorsi ski gps (for research purposes of course) they're good from 0-50 for their newest model, mine is the 52 mph version...

Classic Boatworks
01-22-2013, 11:45 PM
Put it in the maybe category. I am actually pleased we could work out our differences. I think we will offer a high quality retrofit at a reasonable price.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-22-2013, 11:50 PM
I like the sound of that.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
01-22-2013, 11:51 PM
Put it in the maybe category. I am actually pleased we could work out our differences. I think we will offer a high quality retrofit at a reasonable price.

I hope so these ran me more than $400

Classic Boatworks
01-28-2013, 08:16 PM
Sweetheart Deal – Tell your sweetheart what you really want

We are offering the Speedometer GPS conversion for a discount and I will install your unit at no charge until February 29, 2013. http://www.classicboatwork.com/classicparts/gauges/airguide/gps/mc.html

Currently we have mounted the prototypes on the frame that holds the mechanical parts requiring removal of the internal parts and frame modification. I need to install a few in order to work out the details of an alternate mounting method and write clear instructions. Once I perfect an alternate installation method I will offer a kit for those that wish to install the unit themselves and save their mechanical internals.

We ask those that take advantage of this introductory special to work with us to resolve any issues and share your experience on the forum.

We guarantee your satisfaction.

Questions?
Post here or email coolboats@classicboatwork.com or Phone 916-774-0529

mikeg205
01-28-2013, 08:53 PM
That's really cool....okay something to add to the list... :)

thatsmrmastercraft
01-28-2013, 08:59 PM
More than I was hoping it would cost, but it definitely makes the list.....just not at the top.

Classic Boatworks
02-19-2013, 01:33 AM
I have added more information on the GPS conversion:

http://www.classicboatwork.com/classicparts/gauges/airguide/agr/agr.html

http://www.classicboatwork.com/classicparts/gauges/airguide/gps/gpsretro.html

We also now have a form for questions and quotes:

http://www.classicboatwork.com/form/gpsform.html

occva
03-16-2013, 11:58 PM
Has anyone tried this conversion?

Wet N Frugal
03-27-2013, 08:31 PM
More info on conversion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axiv4Gw_N2M

Classic Boatworks
03-29-2013, 03:06 PM
[QUOTE=Wet N Frugal;919736]More info on conversion:

I was just going to post this link to nautic Laugic's video. Pretty good but I cringe when he tells you to cut the nipple off the diaphragm!!

Here is the first pair of retrofitted speedometers I did for a Correct Craft...
Sorry for swearing.:o

http://http://www.classicboatwork.com/classicparts/gauges/restorations/restoration_gauge.html

east tx skier
03-29-2013, 08:48 PM
Dead link.

thatsmrmastercraft
03-29-2013, 09:03 PM
Must have been too much swearing.