hooking the hull

[rodltg2]

my ski buddy has an 01 p190. its immaculate to say the least. be both ski behind it regularly on the course. he wants a new boat because of its tracking issues and slopply wake at 22. i told him i have heard about people having the 01 hull "hooked" to be exaclty like an 03,04 prostar. has anyone done this and who did it. neither of us trust the local dealer to do it.

[tappskier]

I have an 01 prostar,,, what do you mean by hooked??

[rodltg2]

the newer boats, starting with the pro tournament in 02 , are hooked in the rear of the hull. this makes the bow ride lower and the t-rudder you have unneccesary. makes the boat track better and have a consistent softer wake at the 22off area.

[PendO]

the newer boats, starting with the pro tournament in 02 , are hooked in the rear of the hull. this makes the bow ride lower and the t-rudder you have unneccesary. makes the boat track better and have a consistent softer wake at the 22off area.

So "hooked" means shaved, right?

When we used to let friends/cousins ride the Jet Skis (old school standup and sitdown 650X-2's) ... they were always banging into chit, (or so it seemed) we would take them to a shop that strictly did fiberglass repair, I'll bet they could HOOK you up. I wonder though if the hooking procedure (if done incorrectly) might cause the boat to be to thin in places?

Rod, he is probably just jealous of you new Bu' ... you know what he really needs to do:)

[PendO]

The shop in Spokane for fiberglass repair is Boatworks II ... but that probably won't help anyone but AirJunky and SkySkiSpokane ;)

[rodltg2]

he has nothing to be jealous about, his boat is awesome. it just has the same prob that all 01' have. realistically it's not a big deal. it skiies great.

[jkski]

I had a 2002 PS 197 that I had my local dealer hook, and it turned out great. It was the first one they had done, which admittedly made me a bit nervous, however, I trust my dealer. They got the specs from the factory and when it was done, you could not tell that it was added, no matter where you looked. We left the "T Rudder" on as well and had twice the amount of lift, which was great for my slalom wake, however, it made the wells on either side of the wake a bit smaller for the barefoot tricks.
The 22-Off bump was gone, however, the biggest thing I noticed was that I shot spray out the side of the boat a lot further. In order to use a boom on the boat after having this done, I had to utilize 2 of the 18inch extensions, which really puts you out there and makes it tough on your driver. Had we taken off the "T Rudder" I am sure that some of that would have gone away.
In any case, Mid-Ohio Watersports (www.midohiowatersports.com) did mine and have done several since, so give them a call and maybe they can help you or coach your local dealer in the "How Too's".
Good luck.

[bigmac]

my ski buddy has an 01 p190. its immaculate to say the least. be both ski behind it regularly on the course. he wants a new boat because of its tracking issues and slopply wake at 22. i told him i have heard about people having the 01 hull "hooked" to be exaclty like an 03,04 prostar. has anyone done this and who did it. neither of us trust the local dealer to do it.

There have been a few threads on this here. The issue is hooking the hull vs adding a wake plate, like the Lenco tab MC is putting on the 06 230VRS/X30. Some of the Maristars from a few years ago apparently have a little porpoising problem at higher speeds, and these plates fix that, as well as flattening the wake on those V drives.

One way to test it is to duct tape some pieces of a thin piece of wood, like a paint stirrer or wooden yard stick across part of the very back of the hull. Apparently it doesn't stay very long, but usually long enough to test whether or not it works. Another poster here by gluing various "wedges" to the hull to see the effect. It helped him know how much of a hook he needed to have glassed in.

My 230VRS doesn't porpoise and the wake meets our skiing needs, but I wouldn't mind getting the bow down just a little and I would like to get rid of the rooster tail at 15-22 off, so I'm going to add the MC Lenco wake tab in the spring. Gregg did that and it helped a lot on that boat.

[Ric]

he has nothing to be jealous about, his boat is awesome. it just has the same prob that all 01' have. realistically it's not a big deal. it skiies great.
I don't know that 01 is the same hull as an 02 and I'm assuming you guys are talking about changing the rudder when and if you do this?
That pic looks like a 209? I thought you said 190 I also don't know if it would have the same effect on a 209?

[rodltg2]

ric, you need to have your eyes checked :)

[east tx skier]

No grab rails on that boat. 190.

[SteveO]

I don't know that 01 is the same hull as an 02 and I'm assuming you guys are talking about changing the rudder when and if you do this?
That pic looks like a 209? I thought you said 190 I also don't know if it would have the same effect on a 209?.

They added the hook to the 209 in 03? I bought mine used and it had the hook from the previous owner.

[Ric]

ric, you need to have your eyes checked :)
why yes I do but I swear that thing looks wayyyy long for a 190 in that pic angle and some 197's came with no grabrails so I didn't let that into the equation.

[east tx skier]

It does appear to have a long beak on it doesn't it.

[brianlbrown]

My '02 PS 197 is being "hooked" as we speak. Should be done in a day or so. Work is being performed by Texas MasterCraft in Fort Worth, TX. Jimmie says the glass guy has the jigs direct form MasterCraft engineering to fit it just like the '03-05's. Details to follow......

[east tx skier]

I assume that's Ted Brown? If so, from all I hear, you are in very good hands. Expensive hands, but very good.

[brianlbrown]

Dunno if Ted Brown did the work or not....I will find out. Whoever is was, did a great job. Looks totally factory. (see attacted pics) I can't wait to lake test tomorrow. I also replaced the rudder with the tournament rudder with the trimtab. Wake pics and review to follow....

[3event]

Brian, looking forward to your report. I have the same boat and I am considering options to improve the wake. Are you able to do wake before and wake after pix?

So if I am right, one trade-off for wake improvement is a lower top end with more of the bow in the water, right? The note that concerned me from another post is that there is more sidespray which impacts use of the barefoot boom - that would be a non-starter for me, we use it a fair amount.

If you feel inclined to share the cost of the work, that would be interesting too........

[Hoff1]

After reading all of the hooking discussions on here for the last few weeks, I decided to do something about my porpoising. I had always thought it was something I had to live with. I added a homemade hook to my boat a couple weeks ago and got to try it out for the first time yesterday. The supplies cost about $10 and the total time was about 1 hour (2 sessions at ½ hour each). My boat is 15 years old, so spending a lot of money on a dealer installed fiberglass solution was not in my budget. Also, the nearest dealer is over 100 miles from my boat, and my boat is 100 miles from me.

It made an unbelievable difference without any negative side affects that I could tell. It might have reduced my top end by a 1-2 mph, but how often does anyone ride at WOT. I was driving about 40 mph through somewhat choppy water with a very smooth ride. I couldn’t believe the results. It never came close to porpoising, and it definitely smoothed out the ride. In my own mind this has increased the personal value of my boat by a large amount. It is actually fun to drive at WOT even mild chop and the ride in rough water is of no comparison to the beating I used to get.

Here’s what I did:
Disclaimer: this was a cheap and quick solution that has only been water tested once. Obviously if my boat was not 15 years old and worth $30k, I would have done something more professional

 Experimented with duct tape to determine the length and thickness of a hook needed for my boat
 Found a strip of vinyl that was 1” wide about 2 feet long and 1/8” thick at Home Depot
It was tapered at the front like an airfoil. (similar material to what is used as trim in kitchens for the
floor to cabinet transition.
 Taped off the intended work area with masking tape.
 Roughed up the fiberglass surface with 80 sand paper. Went a little beyond where I planned on placing the strip
 Cleaned the area with acetone.
 Gooped a lot of JB Weld on the fiberglass (this stuff is the strongest thing I’ve ever encountered) using a putty knife. Evened it out, but made sure it was completely covering the area in a uniform thickness
 Placed the vinyl strip on the boat.
 Placed a few strips of duct tape over the strip to hold it in place for a few days
 After a few days added more JB Weld to cover the all edges and the front lip extensively to prevent it from pealing off. Almost completely encased the strip with the stuff

I have to admit that it doesn’t look real pretty when you are lying on your back and looking at the bottom of the boat when it is on the trailer, but why would I care what that looks like as long as it works. Can’t see it unless you stick your head all the way down there. I can probably post some pics if anyone is interested, but will take several days since I’m not in the digital age yet. As for the strip coming loose, I don’t think I could get if off if I wanted to.

[east tx skier]

Dunno if Ted Brown did the work or not....I will find out. Whoever is was, did a great job. Looks totally factory. (see attacted pics) I can't wait to lake test tomorrow. I also replaced the rudder with the tournament rudder with the trimtab. Wake pics and review to follow....

Brian, your ride, she's so cherry! :D Whoever did that did some very nice work.

Hoff, let's see some pics.

[Hoff1]

It will probably take me at least a week or two before I can get some pics due to the distance to my boat. But, I share some when I get them.

[brianlbrown]

Well, the wake is back to where we started, though a bit coarser, in my opinion. Slight bump at 22, but softer all the way into 35. Top speed is 44, up from 41 with the T rudder. Spray to the side is not really that bad in to the barefoot boom, about where is was with the T rudder. Large roostertail at trick speeds. Handling / drivability is much better, and tracks better than before. The tournament rudder is nice to put a bit of a load to the right to help on the slalom course. Cost was $600 for the glass work, $200 or so for the rudder.

Compare the pics with the 2005 197 from the MC website. Sorry, I did not take any of mine before the mod.

Hope this helps.....

Brian

[Ric]

It does appear to have a long beak on it doesn't it.
yep, so long that rodl removed the pic :confused:

good looking boat (http://www.tmcowners.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1919) brianlbrown, welcome! You near the DFW area?

[brianlbrown]

Yes, I am in Grapevine, just NW of DFW airport.

[oxmach]

Brian, I have an 02 x-7 and was looking into having the hull hooked. All things considered, was it worth it, especially the change in the wake? Also, do you have a 3 or 4 blade prop - which size and pitch. Our season is almost over, but I will be putting a 3 blade 13 x 12 CNC on in the spring and was curious what you are running.

[brianlbrown]

I am running the 4 blade prop. Yes, I do think it was worth the cost. Much more fun to drive.

[Hoff1]

Thought I'd post this picture finally. Here's a shot of my homemade hook. I've been out 3 times since I installed this and I still can't believe the results. I still have 150 lbs of lead in the front which keeps the bow down low enough to cut the waves. Last time out I experimented with moving the lead around the boat. It still doesn't porpoise with the lead in the back, but the ride is much smoother with it in the front.

[rodltg2]

well we skiid my buddies 01 mc 190 for the first time since the hull hook and rudder change.
only thing i can say is AWESOME. what a difference. boat tracks perfect, wake is great and it handles really nice... great boat ..

[Kevin 89MC]

Cool. Missed this thread first time thru. Not to get too far off track, but has anyone ever hooked an older boat's hull? Say a '89 ProStar? I might have to experiment a little this summer . . . a smaller 15/22 bump would sure be appreciated by this skier!

[Hoff1]

Kevin, you can see my experimentation on my 90 Maristar. It worked very well, boat doesn't porpoise at all anymore. Duct tape in the best way to experiment.

[Kevin 89MC]

Cool, didn't realize yours wa a '90. I've never really had porpoising issues, but it seems like my bow rides a bit high, esp at 30-32 mph. Thanks again for posting the pics.

[east tx skier]

Cool. Missed this thread first time thru. Not to get too far off track, but has anyone ever hooked an older boat's hull? Say a '89 ProStar? I might have to experiment a little this summer . . . a smaller 15/22 bump would sure be appreciated by this skier!

The early 90s prostars had a slight hook (or maybe I'm just seeing things). I don't think it's quite as much as what's on the newer boats.

[Hoff1]

You could add some weight in the front to lower the bow some. Most people avoid adding weights, but I added 150 pounds of lead shot under the front seats and it makes the ride completely different. Smooths out the ride and it takes waves much better. I experimented with adding some, moving it around, etc. and found that 150 works for me.

[east tx skier]

I just got to thinking about something that is probably worth mentioning. Be very careful adding too much weight to the front of these boats. While getting the back end a bit out of the water can have a nice effect when it comes to a flatter wake, there are things back there that need to stay in the water, i.e., your rudder.

A recent example I recall reading was an open bow ski boat (2006 model) with someone (maybe two) in the bow. Hole shot toward the turn island in shallow water. All those things combined with the sharp turn basically, if I remember the explanation by someone more learned than myself, stalled the rudder turned the keel into the rudder. Backing off the power regained control, but there is some pucker factor there. Add a nearby shoreline and it could get even hairier.

This is not specific to boat brand, but given that people can sit in open bows, they tend to be the more likely culprit. So if I have this right, adding too much weight to a boat in the front for slalom purposes (I know the wakeboard guys do it, but they've got so much in the back it would seem to be a nonissue) may not be such a great idea. That said, the shallow water, fast accelleration, and sharp turn were also factors if I remember correctly. But that's all pretty standard in slalom.

[G-man]

If you want to have fun with your driver, put 2 adults in the bow, and a 185 lb barefooter on a boom and try to get them up. The boat tends to go in a left hand circle.

[east tx skier]

LOL! George, do they complain when you stuff them in the hold?!?

As for weight in the bow, on my boat, the weight of one adult in the bow while free skiing with a driver and observer make the wake a little firm. With just the driver and observer, it's much nicer.

[agua4fun]

well we skiid my buddies 01 mc 190 for the first time since the hull hook and rudder change.
only thing i can say is AWESOME. what a difference. boat tracks perfect, wake is great and it handles really nice... great boat ..

makes me want to do mine now (same boat)
it will have to go on the list

[rodltg2]

you should

[TMCNo1]

I understand UMP is out trying to find some hookers to put in his hull!

[agua4fun]

you should
for about $800??
It really is tempting. I may have missed it, but did you go to a dealer, or did you find a local glass shop? had they done this before?

[rodltg2]

i dont own that boat, my ski partner does. i bleive he had it done at a dealer and bought the rudder from MYMC..

[east tx skier]

Were it me, I'd definitely have a dealer do it (unless as in this area, I know who does their glass work in which case, I'd take it to that person directly).

[Age Fighter]

About a month into my first MC...2003 X-9. Graduated from sterndrive to DD inboard as I was determined to ski hard for another 7-10 years. Hated to sell a Cobalt, but love my X-9.

I was hoping to get that hump down a bit for my slalom...and a factory rep recommended hooking the hull over installing either a wake plate or barefoot suppression plate on this model.

Sounds like a nuanced hook makes a heckuva difference. Any thoughts on hooking versus adding a plate? I always had trim tabs on my outboards and sterndrives....

[Skipper]

In your case there is not an engineering issue with your boat like with the prostars. The hook was a way to correct an oversight in design. Modifying the boat with a hook is a permanent change. Using a wake plate gives you the ability to change the wake table based on what you want to do at the moment (foot, slalom, board, etc...).

I have a simple method that you can use to replicate the hook but it is only temporary and you can just remove it after your tests (or you can keep it going and use it to go footin).

materials:
quality duct tape (gorilla tape is best but expensive)
16" long braided nylon cord/rope 3/8 to 1/4 dia.

application:
1. tear a strip of the tape that is just about two inches longer than the rope
2. place the rope on the sticky side of the tape, centered
3. apply the rope/tape to the trailing edge of the stern so it is centered and at the extreme
edge of the stern
4. apply one more strip of tape forward of the first so it overlaps (helps hold better)
5. work out all of the air and press the tape down.

If applied carefully this usually lasts for two - three footers at 37 mph. You will get the chance to see how your boat would respond to the hook. It is a temporary change that will not harm your boat. You can always reapply if you want to use it for a footin session.

I say try this first. See how your wake table changes. You can accomplish the same result with a plate - but your plate can be adjusted...

[east tx skier]

I believe later years of the 209 were hooked as well to deal with porpoising. Just didn't happen concurrently with the hooking of the 190/197. Bill's method would probably be accomplish the same thing and be far more cost effective in your case though.