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Theclarks1111
12-12-2012, 01:02 PM
Does anyone keep their boat on a lift on their dock all year long without winterizing. I live in Alabama and would love to keep my boat ready to go through the winter for those warm weekends we get. I am curious if anyone has a heater with a power back up. I would like to pull the freeze plugs and keep the block warm enough to not freeze but be able to drop it in the water when it is warm enough. Any thoughts...

thatsmrmastercraft
12-12-2012, 01:36 PM
Interesting concept. I would assume that a block heater would warm the water in the engine sufficiently to keep it from freezing. I would recommend using a block heater on each side for plenty of heat, and redundancy....that's what I used to do years ago when I wanted to be sure my truck that never saw the inside of a garage would start when it got cold.

milkmania
12-12-2012, 01:46 PM
I would think too many air pockets and not enough circulation on an open cooling system, unlike a vehicle with a closed cooling system. sounds like a gamble to me:(

thatsmrmastercraft
12-12-2012, 02:02 PM
When I haven't winterized yet and the temps get cold, I place a quartz heater in the engine compartment and close the engine cover. Keeps it nice and warm inside, and doesn't get hot like a trouble light. a quick drain of the block and a heater may be an option.

milkmania
12-12-2012, 02:07 PM
When I haven't winterized yet and the temps get cold, I place a quartz heater in the engine compartment and close the engine cover. Keeps it nice and warm inside, and doesn't get hot like a trouble light. a quick drain of the block and a heater may be an option.

here's an idea???
http://j.b5z.net/i/u/2048250/i/RV%20Heater.JPG


I use a milkhouse heater to heat my 1 car garage, and it worked great yesterday when it was 18 degrees outside

milkmania
12-12-2012, 02:12 PM
http://www.csg-i.com/discussionphotos/DSC00425web.jpg

milkmania
12-12-2012, 02:13 PM
http://www.csg-i.com/discussionphotos/DSC00427web.jpg

milkmania
12-12-2012, 02:14 PM
http://www.apogeekits.com/remote_control_via_cell_phone.htm

Kyle
12-12-2012, 02:54 PM
This is how I would roll.

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MCM000


Twist the drains and walk away. Once installed it takes 1 min or less to twist the valves and you are done. Then when it's warm twist the valves closed and enjoy the day.

milkmania
12-12-2012, 02:57 PM
This is how I would roll.

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MCM000


Twist the drains and walk away. Once installed it takes 1 min or less to twist the valves and you are done. Then when it's warm twist the valves closed and enjoy the day.

what about pockets of un-winterized water?
The water passages create too many pockets, and they're not all gravity drained:confused:

Kyle
12-12-2012, 02:57 PM
No offence to the heater guys but the time it takes to set up a heater with the extension cord and rolling the cord back up time wise, the drain kit would be faster and just as safe.

Kyle
12-12-2012, 03:00 PM
what about pockets of un-winterized water?
The water passages create too many pockets, and they're not all gravity drained:confused:

I use the kit above and never had an issue.

I do many of our club members boats the same way.

Never had a problem.


What pockets are you referring to?

I follow every step in my owners manual accept the real OCD step of greasing the shaft flange between the tranny and shaft coupler. I also do not tape my exhaust flaps down as instructed. My boat is inside a storage facility.

It says to pull lanyard and crank it over to remove any kind of pockets but I don't have a lanyard safety switch. They are ghey so I pull my coil wire.

milkmania
12-12-2012, 04:11 PM
I'm just trying to picture the water passages..... if water is going uphill then goes downhill and there's a pocket of water that cannot be purged out, I'd think that it would freeze in there.... and if it was in a location that was tight, the only way for the ice to expand it for something to break.

take for instance the 1/2 inch block plug..... is it at the very bottom of the water passage, or is it an inch above the passage? If it's above, then you've got an inch that'll freeze. then you've got the nose up tilt of the engine block..... what about the water from the plug to the back of the block?

Maybe I'm overthinking it.... but if this were the case, seems like PCM, Indmar, and others would lust have the valves in place to begin with.

edit:
and what about the water at the thermostat housing?

best pic I could find..... but I'd say water will sit in the places indicated....

thatsmrmastercraft
12-12-2012, 04:28 PM
I'm just trying to picture the water passages..... if water is going uphill then goes downhill and there's a pocket of water that cannot be purged out, I'd think that it would freeze in there.... and if it was in a location that was tight, the only way for the ice to expand it for something to break.

take for instance the 1/2 inch block plug..... is it at the very bottom of the water passage, or is it an inch above the passage? If it's above, then you've got an inch that'll freeze. then you've got the nose up tilt of the engine block..... what about the water from the plug to the back of the block?

Maybe I'm overthinking it.... but if this were the case, seems like PCM, Indmar, and others would lust have the valves in place to begin with.

edit:
and what about the water at the thermostat housing?

best pic I could find..... but I'd say water will sit in the places indicated....

The ice could expand upwards in your example.

Kyle
12-12-2012, 04:31 PM
I'm just trying to picture the water passages..... if water is going uphill then goes downhill and there's a pocket of water that cannot be purged out, I'd think that it would freeze in there.... and if it was in a location that was tight, the only way for the ice to expand it for something to break.

take for instance the 1/2 inch block plug..... is it at the very bottom of the water passage, or is it an inch above the passage? If it's above, then you've got an inch that'll freeze. then you've got the nose up tilt of the engine block..... what about the water from the plug to the back of the block?

Maybe I'm overthinking it.... but if this were the case, seems like PCM, Indmar, and others would lust have the valves in place to begin with.




I think you are over thinking things slightly.

When the water freezes it has to go somewhere. Say we use the 1" gap from the drain to were the water catches or in some kind of valley where water sits. When the water freezes it will expand and it will find its way out through the valley or the passage that now is not blocked due to have drained.

If we take a metal dog bowl or say a cattle watering tank and let it freeze. Why does the metal not break or bust. Why do the plastic ice cube trays that you freeze for ice for cold drinks not break?

The water is not under pressure with the block drained. Therefore the passages are not under pressure and the water has somewhere to expand to.


As far as the Tstat, you are supposed to drain the hose running from the tstat housing to the water pump.

milkmania
12-12-2012, 04:35 PM
The ice could expand upwards in your example.

I agree with that, but what about any pits or valleys in the casting.... we know it can't be smooth in there, they used sand for the block casting.

I'm just saying that any water that I'd feel comfortable with that stays in the block would be treated water.

I've pulled engines and drained the antifreeze beforehand.... got them out of vehicle and more water comes out, while it's on the ground, loading into truck bed, etc.... it's gotta come from somewhere:confused:

Kyle
12-12-2012, 04:39 PM
I've pulled engines and drained the antifreeze beforehand.... got them out of vehicle and more water comes out, while it's on the ground, loading into truck bed, etc.... it's gotta come from somewhere:confused:

Did you just drain the radiator or did you drain the radiator, pull all of the drain plugs to the block, remove the upper and lower rad hoses?


If you just pulled the rad hose to the pump then yes the engine block will be full of water as well.

milkmania
12-12-2012, 04:44 PM
Did you just drain the radiator or did you drain the radiator, pull all of the drain plugs to the block, remove the upper and lower rad hoses?


If you just pulled the rad hose to the pump then yes the engine block will be full of water as well.

good catch

typically, just pulled radiator hoses

thatsmrmastercraft
12-12-2012, 04:46 PM
I agree with that, but what about any pits or valleys in the casting.... we know it can't be smooth in there, they used sand for the block casting.

I'm just saying that any water that I'd feel comfortable with that stays in the block would be treated water.

I've pulled engines and drained the antifreeze beforehand.... got them out of vehicle and more water comes out, while it's on the ground, loading into truck bed, etc.... it's gotta come from somewhere:confused:

I'm with you on that. When I winterize, I run RV antifreeze through, then drain and disconnect everything to eliminate as many possible spots for freezing as possible. It does get a little cold here from time to time in the winter.

It is truly amazing where all the bonus liquids come from when pulling an engine.:confused::rolleyes:

Kyle
12-12-2012, 05:03 PM
[/B]

I'm with you on that. When I winterize, I run RV antifreeze through, then drain and disconnect everything to eliminate as many possible spots for freezing as possible. It does get a little cold here from time to time in the winter.

It is truly amazing where all the bonus liquids come from when pulling an engine.:confused::rolleyes:



After seeing the amount of snow that you get I would do it your way as well. My MCOCD would be on HIGH stress seeing my boat covered in that snow. I would be freaking out.


IIRC the OP lives in the Dirty South :)

Kyle
12-12-2012, 05:05 PM
good catch

typically, just pulled radiator hoses

Exactly what I normally do too. The floor catches a lot and then the good ole mop gets to do some more work.

TayMC197
12-12-2012, 06:03 PM
Electric blanket and battery tender!! All you need!

Kyle
12-12-2012, 07:14 PM
Electric blanket and battery tender!! All you need!

But you still have to jack with a dang extention cord :D

east tx skier
12-12-2012, 10:40 PM
Couple of things.

Kyle, over time, I would completely unscrew those valves and let some of the rust particles out, particularly if they aren't flowing like they were on they day you first installed them. I don't trust petcocks either and have personally seen them get clogged. The reduction to barb would cause my CCOCD to stand up like hackles.

Milk has a point about the pockets, but Kyle's ice tray example has merit. When I winterize, even now that I am draining and pouring in antifreeze (I dry blocked before), I always pulled the boat around on the trailer and hit a few hills on the way. I had inexplicably put the bilge plug in once after draining and you'd be surprised how much water was left in there after a short drive. The water may have room to expand, but I'm not comfortable enough with the nooks and crannies in my block to make that bet. If you're stored inside, the odds of a hard freeze in Texas for your boat isn't enormous. Maybe just raise the trailer jack up to its highest point, then work it down to its lowest point to see if you can encourage any flow of whatever might be left in there.

Cranking the engine with the lanyard pulled will definitely kick the water out of the pump housing on an Indmar engine and is recommended. Those pump housing walls aren't as thick as the blocks. Not sure how much it does for the other nooks and crannies.

Last thing to remember is that the boats stored over water somehow (I forget how) stay a bit warmer than boats stored outdoors over dry land. Thermal mass of the lake or something. Makes sense.

Last, last thing is the old saying that is probably true that most frozen boat blocks happen in the south because people are always trying to avoid winterizing.

My preference is to winterize, declare an off season, and brew beer. Nearly 10 years of boat ownership and counting without a frozen block.

Good luck.

Jorski
12-16-2012, 02:03 PM
I had those valves from Skidim. My thought was to make winterizing a snap

My experience was that they clog very easily with silt and scale. The passages around the valves are very narrow. I wound up removing them every winter which sort of defeated the purpose.

If you do use them, make sure to poke a wire up in them to break up any potential blockages.

Im sure it depends on the lake conditions where you use your boat but after trying them, I'm not a fan.

CC2MC
12-16-2012, 10:30 PM
Man, after reading this thread, I am a little nervous of my LT-1 block, which I drained. Just worried about potential pockets now, as I have not run antifreeze through.

east tx skier
12-16-2012, 10:33 PM
Man, after reading this thread, I am a little nervous of my LT-1 block, which I drained. Just worried about potential pockets now, as I have not run antifreeze through.

It'll be fine. Just kick the water out of the water pump by bumping the throttle with the safety lanyard pulled. Raise and lower the trailer jack if you like. You'll be fine.

Jorski
12-17-2012, 09:01 AM
CC2MC

If you got all of the the drains out you should be fine.

I have winterized my LT-1 without antifreeze for ten years without a problem.

Thrall
12-17-2012, 05:25 PM
Man, after reading this thread, I am a little nervous of my LT-1 block, which I drained. Just worried about potential pockets now, as I have not run antifreeze through.

Same here. Have dry blocked my LT-1 and now MCX since 2003 without issue.
I agree about not trusting the petcocks on the block drains though. They get plugged pretty easily. Better to unscrew them completely from the block.

To the OP, just drain the water for the short time in the winter where there's a chance of freezing. Safe and relatively easy. Even easier if it's a DD boat.