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View Full Version : wow those exhaust bolts are IN there. . . tips for removal?


strad
12-08-2012, 07:16 PM
I already hit them with penetrating oil (pb blaster). It's not an urgent project, but I would like to address the manifold to riser gaskets and also the rust stains on the manifolds (latter is why I would like to remove them). I'm also a little afraid that I'll have to replace them based on the amount of rust pieces that I got and am still getting out the manifold drains. So yeah, manifold bolts should come out.

I have a two-foot breaker bar, but frankly I'm afraid to put any more torque on it than I have for fear of rounding out the allen holes. I'll probably hit them a few more times with penetrating oil just to see what happens, but would like to have as many ideas as possible.

It's an 84 351 PCM, and I'm pretty sure the bolts have never been removed. So they're in there about as tight as you'd expect lol.

Cloaked
12-08-2012, 07:56 PM
.......... the manifold to riser gaskets and also the rust stains on the manifolds (latter is why I would like to remove them).Is it broken or just not visually pleasing?


A few days of penetrant may or may not do it. Give it a few days but also approach it the way you have been. No more forced torque in my opinion. I'd hate to have to deal with that under less than ideal conditions, when in fact, it wasn't broken in the first place, but I'm also more practical than obsessed with things that make you go "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm..."

.

Snipe
12-08-2012, 07:57 PM
Try a penetrating oil called "Kroil" that stuff really works. It's a little pricey, but you get what you pay for. I have used it in the shop before retiring, and NOTHING beats it. Just type the word "Kroil" into your browser and it will take you to their site. If that doesn't do it, about the only thing left is heat. Lots of it. Best of luck....

Cloaked
12-08-2012, 07:59 PM
Try a penetrating oil called "Kroil" that stuff really works. It's a little pricey, but you get what you pay for. I have used it in the shop before retiring, and NOTHING beats it. Just type the word "Kroil" into your browser and it will take you to their site. If that doesn't do it, about the only thing left is heat. Lots of it. Best of luck....+1 on Kroil. I also have it in my shop.

.

1redTA
12-08-2012, 08:28 PM
you could always try some heat

03geetee
12-08-2012, 09:08 PM
I can come down there and yell at it for you, worked a few times.

Seriously keep at it, go slow and if it snaps then it snaps and we re invent a new approach.

JTR

strad
12-08-2012, 09:12 PM
I may just leave it alone for the time being lol. It's one of those things that would be nice to renew but not at the expense of making a mess.

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to remove the heads with the manifolds installed? The idea being that, if it was possible, in the event I decided to put GT40 heads on I would use new manifolds and not worry about the problem with the old heads. Probably sounds like a newb question but the only other engine I've done a head gasket on, it was possible to remove the head with all the manifolds still installed.

zsqure
12-08-2012, 09:25 PM
Do a google search. Somewhere I read ATF and acetone mixed together in equal amounts works better than most penetrating oils.

Jerseydave
12-08-2012, 11:48 PM
I may just leave it alone for the time being lol. It's one of those things that would be nice to renew but not at the expense of making a mess.

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to remove the heads with the manifolds installed? The idea being that, if it was possible, in the event I decided to put GT40 heads on I would use new manifolds and not worry about the problem with the old heads. Probably sounds like a newb question but the only other engine I've done a head gasket on, it was possible to remove the head with all the manifolds still installed.

^Only if you can get at all of the head bolts, otherwise no.

Try smacking the heads of the manifold bolts with a hammer a few strikes first. Sometimes the shock of the hammer smacking them will help. Good luck.

ctjahn
12-09-2012, 08:17 AM
My riser bolts were a total pia.... but they were not allen type head (standard hex).

3 out of 5 brok off at the head but once I removed the risers I was able to get to the remaining parts. I used PB, Time, hammer, and a tighten, loosen, tighten, loosen technique. (Sounds like you are doing the whole manafold?)

Took me about 2 hours total time but they sat while working on other stuff soaking across several weekends...

Best of luck
Cj

1redTA
12-09-2012, 08:49 AM
Dont limit yourself to one technique I have used all (with sucess)when working with millwrights at a industrial machine shop.

mikeg205
12-09-2012, 02:51 PM
Try a penetrating oil called "Kroil" that stuff really works. It's a little pricey, but you get what you pay for. I have used it in the shop before retiring, and NOTHING beats it. Just type the word "Kroil" into your browser and it will take you to their site. If that doesn't do it, about the only thing left is heat. Lots of it. Best of luck....

Anything special about Kroil being different then PB Blaster? Rated best? good info to know.

Snipe
12-09-2012, 03:07 PM
I have never used PB Blaster, but I have read and heard a lot about that stuff. I do know that Kroil is really some excellent stuff. I used to be and probably still will be on the CCF site(CorectCraft Fan) a lot (being an owner of a Nautique), and many on that site have switched to Kroil. I have used that stuff for many years working in the Tool and Die trade and can truthfully say that it works. I feel that it may be a little pricey, but if it prevents frustration and temper flares,.... it's worth it. Just google it to read something about it. Remember the write up is by the people who sell it though.

mikeg205
12-09-2012, 03:10 PM
I have never used PB Blaster, but I have read and heard a lot about that stuff. I do know that Kroil is really some excellent stuff. I used to be and probably still will be on the CCF site(CorectCraft Fan) a lot (being an owner of a Nautique), and many on that site have switched to Kroil. I have used that stuff for many years working in the Tool and Die trade and can truthfully say that it works. I feel that it may be a little pricey, but if it prevents frustration and temper flares,.... it's worth it. Just google it to read something about it. Remember the write up is by the people who sell it though.

the magic phrase - prevent frustration.

zsqure
12-09-2012, 03:11 PM
Best penetrating oil (You will be surprised)

Quote:
April 2007 "Machinist's Workshop" magazine comparison test wrote:

They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.

Penetrating oil ...... Average load ..... Price per fluid ounce
None .................... 516 pounds
WD-40 .................. 238 pounds ...... $0.25
PB Blaster .............. 214 pounds ...... $0.35
Liquid Wrench ......... 127 pounds ...... $0.21
Kano Kroil ............... 106 pounds ...... $0.75
ATF-Acetone mix ....... 53 pounds ...... $0.10 (50/50 mix)

The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone.

Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test.

Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.


Kind of surprising, but that mix (50-50) is what I use.
Word of caution - don't use a foam cup to mix it in. (Yeah, don't ask me how I know this) :twisted:
I mix mine in a glass jar with a good sealed lid - it does loose its effectiveness after time - it's best to mix up a small "fresh" batch for best results. I then pour it into an ALL metal squirt can to apply/use.

mikeg205
12-09-2012, 05:42 PM
Best penetrating oil (You will be surprised)


Kind of surprising, but that mix (50-50) is what I use.
Word of caution - don't use a foam cup to mix it in. (Yeah, don't ask me how I know this) :twisted:


Great info.... and regarding the the foam cup....:uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme

Snipe
12-09-2012, 05:51 PM
+1 on the info. I'm going to try that too minus the foam cup.:toast::toast::toast:

frankster66
12-09-2012, 07:43 PM
+2 on the information, thanks

strad
12-09-2012, 07:44 PM
Well as it stands right now, I have no broken/stripped bolts, but I do have definite signs of leaking from the riser gaskets, and rust stains from said leakage going down the manifolds. But I'll definitely be mixing up some of that atf/acetone stuff and trying it. If I can get those bolts to break loose with a minimum amount of trouble and an appropriate solvent I'll do it. Thanks for all the info. That's awesome.

mikeg205
12-09-2012, 07:55 PM
Well as it stands right now, I have no broken/stripped bolts, but I do have definite signs of leaking from the riser gaskets, and rust stains from said leakage going down the manifolds. But I'll definitely be mixing up some of that atf/acetone stuff and trying it. If I can get those bolts to break loose with a minimum amount of trouble and an appropriate solvent I'll do it. Thanks for all the info. That's awesome.

Don't forget the red solo cup with appropriate fluid while waiting for other fluid to do it's works...:D:D:D

mcparadise
12-09-2012, 11:48 PM
FWIW, tapping all around the area with a hammer and screwdriver after penetrant added should improve the capillary action and might help to free up. Using an air heat gun is another recourse mentioned already that I have used with success.