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jkski
12-03-2012, 08:15 AM
Well, after over a year of planning, giving several gallons of blood to the bank and several years of thinking/gathering advice, we FINALLY broke ground on the new house this past weekend. Here are a few pics from the big dig. For anyone who is interested, I will do my best to update this with new pics as we move along.

SkiDog
12-03-2012, 08:23 AM
Cool! As a builder, I'd like to see progression pics of your project! Good thing you broke ground BEFORE the ground FROZE!:D

jkski
12-03-2012, 08:50 AM
I think had the bank delayed us another week or 2 we would have been forced to wait until spring. The forecast is looking good for work the footer work today but truthfully not so good the rest of the week with rain chances nearly every day. We went with the Advantech flooring, which was a major factor for me in moving forward thru the winter/wet months. They are figuring that if all goes well, framing will begin around Christmas, likely a little before, so I will be spending my forseeable weekends on a dozer!

Jerseydave
12-03-2012, 08:53 AM
Congrats! Details, details!

What type of HVAC system are you doing?
Garage for you boat? (remember, it can never be TOO big!)

After having built 2 houses, I know now what mistakes I made and what I would do differently the next time around (if there is a next time)

mikeg205
12-03-2012, 09:04 AM
Built - (okay - bought 2 custom homes and worked closely with a small home GC) - breaking ground was the most fun. Nice location...yes...many pictures... Ditto on the big garage... Don't forget the work bech nook and you can also have a beefed ceiling rafter system designed to lift boat off trailer... :D.. Don't forget gas line to garage heater and a couple 220v 50amp power lines for man tools...:D

thatsmrmastercraft
12-03-2012, 09:46 AM
Beautiful location.

jkski
12-03-2012, 09:49 AM
Thanks guys:
The details are this.....The house will be 2206SF log cabin style A-frame/timberframe home, 3 bed, 2.5 bath with a 2 story greatroom and a walkout basement(to be finished eventually with a gym, office, family room, work room and additional 1/2 bath). Master bedroom and bath are on first floor along with kitchen and laundry with the additional 2 bedrooms being upstairs off of a loft which overlooks the greatroom.
The garage, well it is 24 wide and 30 deep with an 8 foot door and will be heated. Once I get past the major construction hurdles and see that my costs are not being overrun the plan is to add a 40x60 pole barn with a 12 foot door so that the boat and truck never come unhitched, and I have plenty of room for toys, storage, etc.. The pole building will be heated as well but this likely will not get done for about another year, unless of course I hit the lottery or you guys want to take up a donation pool for me....give it some thought!!!

HVAC will be YORK and I plan to run plenty of power to the house....ran 200 amp service back to the site over the summer.

The driveway is now 1480 feet in length from the road to the garage and took 710 ton of 1's and 2's to construct along with about 400 ton of clay that we excavated making my pond larger, and took to the front of the property in order to make the transition to the road level. Thank god for the Meyer V snowplow!!!

Let the fun begin!!!

milkmania
12-03-2012, 09:53 AM
Well, after over a year of planning, giving several gallons of blood to the bank and several years of thinking/gathering advice, we FINALLY broke ground on the new house this past weekend. Here are a few pics from the big dig. For anyone who is interested, I will do my best to update this with new pics as we move along.

congrats!
When I read the title, I immediately looked at your location.... thought "dang, that takes some balls starting a home build just in time for winter":(

I know you're anxious and I hope it all goes well for you:)


edit:
can I say balls in here:confused::rolleyes:

OHIOPRO205
12-03-2012, 10:01 AM
Awesome. I love looking at new construction pictures. Very exciting times. My wife and I built our home ourselves 19 years ago. Good times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jkski
12-03-2012, 10:04 AM
Well, I agree and I am not certain about the "balls" aspect but I can say it is indeed a gamble but one I researched the heck out of. Given the winter we had last year, if you can call it that, I would have had no problem building this then, so that being said, we will likely have a harsh winter with snow everyday this year! Those who plow for a living and who enjoy einter sports can thank me now!!! Again, donations are welcome!!!

I will be sure to share the good, bad and ugly with you (naturally hoping for for too much of the bad and ugly but gotta be realistic!).

Michigan Tim
12-03-2012, 10:15 AM
Wow, crappy neighborhood for the kids to trick-or-treat in :(
Just kidding, looks gorgeous! Good luck and thanks for the pictures and updates. Will be fun to watch the progression.

Nick911
12-03-2012, 10:17 AM
Beautiful Location! I build custom homes too am currently working on our dream home now as well. Can't wait to see more pics.

jkski
12-03-2012, 10:42 AM
Wow, crappy neighborhood for the kids to trick-or-treat in :(
Just kidding, looks gorgeous! Good luck and thanks for the pictures and updates. Will be fun to watch the progression.

LOL...yeah, just think of my son having to walk out to the end of the drive to catch the bus when he gets older...he will truly be able to say he walked a mile each day uphill both ways, etc!!! Good thing he has aunts that live in developments otherwise he may never get the chance to trick or treat!

mikeg205
12-03-2012, 11:56 AM
Hey Don't forget this... for the pond... :D - Yeah - it's for the no trick tread part... would be fun as anything in the winter... take the fins off board start on snow - hit the water and then finish on the other side... just sayin'

Double D
12-03-2012, 12:18 PM
Finally Congratulations Jeff!! Really happy for you and the wife!!

With the weather around here right now you should be fine, as long as the builder does it right for the cold time of year. My friend from Wayne Homes said they build all year now, having to use different practices, but a long deep freeze will shut them down.

I look forward to seeing the progress.

mikeg205
12-03-2012, 12:26 PM
When house is done...you need to have a TT house warming... MC gifts required...out of towners can and camp out... :D

2RLAKE
12-03-2012, 12:44 PM
looks great ... i love watching a house come together ... take lots of pictures and take lots of notes

I still have my notebook from building my house 7 years ago ... actually had to look up something the other day

most important ... dont sweat the small things ... the goal is a beautiful house looking over that gorgeous property

pmkkdx
12-03-2012, 01:15 PM
Best wishes on the project and weather cooperating!!! As others have stated, take lots of pictures and document daily.

tls
12-03-2012, 02:16 PM
Congratulations and good luck! The property & view look beautiful. Whereabouts are you building? It looks like you found a nice spot off the beaten path.

JohnnyB
12-03-2012, 02:33 PM
Congrats....post lots of pics. I was where you are 3 years ago....114 day from first dirt work to move in. Sound like very similar plan. Just added the guest bath and bedroom and am moving on to the rec room.

800 feet of drive here....which Meyer V do you have......good choice :D

Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk 2

76S&S
12-03-2012, 03:22 PM
We built 19 years ago and have a 900' drive. Good luck and hope it all goes well. Lots of decisions to be made over the coming months!

hondaprlud
12-03-2012, 04:35 PM
Congrats. Projects like this are so much work and rewarding.

Enjoy it!

jkski
12-03-2012, 08:42 PM
Well....just got home after spending the afternoon at the site and it turned into the day from....well, I will let you fill in the blanks. I chose to do this project on a cost-plus basis since I am planning to do a lot of work myself and have others I know as subs, the bank just would not permit me to act as my own general so I had this was the second best approach.
Since it rained yesterday they were not able to get the concrete trucks close enough to the site to allow the guys to wheelbarrow the concrete, so we had to bring in a pumper trailer, which proceeded to get stuck. Good news is one of the concrete trucks pulled him out but I had to have another 60ton of 1's and 2's brought in to beef up the drive area by the garage so that the block truck would not sufer the same fate. Well, dump truck #1 pulled in and burried himself up to the axle and we spent 2 hours digging him out, snapped 2 of my tow chains before one of the other dump trucks was able to free him. So, I got ack to spreading the new stone with the skidder and manage to snap one the bolts on my tracks rendering it down.

So, tomorrow morning will begin at 5am with me taking the tracks off my skidder and spreading another 40+ ton of stone before the block truck and gravel slinger arrive.

Yeah, today was an expensive day and I can only hope it gets better.....lie to me and tell me it does!!! I will have a few more pics tomorrow.

As for the question regarding the location, it is in Richfield, OH.

Regarding the Meyer V plow, it is the new Meyer Super V2 and is 8.5 feet wide. This is by far the best plow I have ever run from Meyer and I love it. Very easy to work, the hydro's are not as fast as I'd like but it makes up for it in versatility and efficient use. If you have any question about it, just shoot me a pm and I will be happy to help.

Nick911
12-03-2012, 09:57 PM
^^it doesn't get better. I always allow for 5% cost overruns. Just wait until window. The good news! It's only money, and you can't take it with you when you die.

jhall0711
12-03-2012, 10:31 PM
^^it doesn't get better. I always allow for 5% cost overruns. Just wait until window. The good news! It's only money, and you can't take it with you when you die.

Dont worry Jkski. We will throw you such a great house warming party when it's done the 5% won't matter. Mgboyd will give you a special dance and if he needs back up me and Double D got his back. :D

petermegan
12-04-2012, 03:43 AM
I love your view, excellent choice of block to build on. Curious about the pond, is that pumped full of water. Why I ask is it has a very blue look to the water. Had similar problems when extending/renovating our house with wet weather. We had 1.5 inches of rain the day they poored the slab. Have fun

JohnnyB
12-04-2012, 08:13 AM
I love your view, excellent choice of block to build on. Curious about the pond, is that pumped full of water. Why I ask is it has a very blue look to the water. Had similar problems when extending/renovating our house with wet weather. We had 1.5 inches of rain the day they poored the slab. Have fun

Might be dyed blue to keep weed growth down??

Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk 2

JohnnyB
12-04-2012, 08:17 AM
Yup...always rains at the wrong time....had my foundation guy get his form truck stuck next to the hole...he unloaded it on labor day after 2 inches of rain and we pulled it out....afraid it was going to cave and go in if he didn't

Dumped several extra runs of breaker and still were getting trucks stuck.

Did you geoweb under your driveway??

Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk 2

JohnE
12-04-2012, 09:31 AM
Congrats on the new home project. Not to threadjack, but I am in the same spot as you. Foundation goes in this week.

Cost plus is interesting. To build in that manner you have to REALLY trust who you've hired. I would not do that deal. Why wouldn't bank allow you to GC?

jkski
12-04-2012, 09:37 AM
Congrats on the new home project. Not to threadjack, but I am in the same spot as you. Foundation goes in this week.

Cost plus is interesting. To build in that manner you have to REALLY trust who you've hired. I would not do that deal. Why wouldn't bank allow you to GC?

You are correct, it is a risky venture if you don't trust the guy you are working with but fortunately I do and the figures he provided me I have bid out myself and can't get it done any cheaper.

The banks in our area (Ohio) are no longer allowing anyone to GC their own home unless they are an approved contractor, which means, among other things, that they do it for a living and have built at least 3 homes in the past year. I could have GC'd it if I wanted to do an End Loan but my name is not Buffet or Gates unfortunately! So, in my scenario I agreed to a cost plus 8% set-up which, in my area, is well below the % that most GC's are charging.

Good luck on your home project, I hope it goes better than the start to mine!

Willski
12-04-2012, 09:37 AM
Congrats...looking forward to the posts. I'm finishing our basement now...with help. I started 5 years ago. Made more progress in the past few months by hiring a few things done!

jkski
12-04-2012, 09:38 AM
Might be dyed blue to keep weed growth down??

Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk 2

Yep, I dye it with Aquashade or Crystal Blue to keep weed growth down. The pond is runoff fed and stairs nice and clean but I still get a little bit of weed growth by the shoreline where the water is shallower and light can penetrate.

jkski
12-04-2012, 09:48 AM
OK, so after yesterdays fiasco I decided it was a new day and it had to get better........WRONG! Started off at 4am trying to spread the rest of the stone so that the block and slinger trucks could get in today, this was after I removed the tracks from the skidder because I broke a pin last night. Well, I manged to pop both rear wheels off the rim and bury the machine, so the tires are likely trashed now and the skidder is in up to it's belly.

I decided to take a step back from the situation now that it is clear I am overmatched, so the dozer will be arriving sometime this morning to do the job the right way and at the same time I will let him pull out my skidder!

As for actual work that got completed yesterday, well, the despite the mud and circus, the footers are in, footer drains are in and once the dozer gets done the slinger and block trucks should get in.....hopefully.

Well, I have had enough for one day so it is off to my day job!

JohnE
12-04-2012, 10:11 AM
You are correct, it is a risky venture if you don't trust the guy you are working with but fortunately I do and the figures he provided me I have bid out myself and can't get it done any cheaper.

The banks in our area (Ohio) are no longer allowing anyone to GC their own home unless they are an approved contractor, which means, among other things, that they do it for a living and have built at least 3 homes in the past year. I could have GC'd it if I wanted to do an End Loan but my name is not Buffet or Gates unfortunately! So, in my scenario I agreed to a cost plus 8% set-up which, in my area, is well below the % that most GC's are charging.

Good luck on your home project, I hope it goes better than the start to mine!

I do agree that with the right contractor you can do cost plus for less than it would cost you to GC your own. I am a subcontractor and no way I'd wire anything that a HO is builiding for anywhere near what I charge my regular builders. But again you need to hire the right GC and sounds like you have.

jkski
12-04-2012, 10:20 AM
It's a calculated risk for sure and I guess when the project is done I will be able to say whether or not I was able to save myself any money or if I cost myself more.......obviously I am hoping for the saving aspect!

Once I see the invoice for the foundation I will have a better feel for where things stand so far as I know I am already over the amount we alotted, just not sure by how much!

milkmania
12-04-2012, 11:07 AM
not familiar with a "slinger truck"

I'm picturing it's something that spreads the gravel :confused:
If that's the case... We don't use them in my area, we just tailgate and drive to dump

Shooter McKevin
12-04-2012, 01:21 PM
OK, so after yesterdays fiasco I decided it was a new day and it had to get better........WRONG! Started off at 4am trying to spread the rest of the stone so that the block and slinger trucks could get in today, this was after I removed the tracks from the skidder because I broke a pin last night. Well, I manged to pop both rear wheels off the rim and bury the machine, so the tires are likely trashed now and the skidder is in up to it's belly.

I decided to take a step back from the situation now that it is clear I am overmatched, so the dozer will be arriving sometime this morning to do the job the right way and at the same time I will let him pull out my skidder!

As for actual work that got completed yesterday, well, the despite the mud and circus, the footers are in, footer drains are in and once the dozer gets done the slinger and block trucks should get in.....hopefully.

Well, I have had enough for one day so it is off to my day job!

Hey jk,

Thanks for sharing your project with us. Beautiful piece of land. It's nice to finally see pictures of that driveway :)

You basically gave yourself the advice I would give. When your plans are derailed (ie broken/stuck machine) it's important to "take a step back". A change in perspective can make a world of difference. It sucks to cancel a trade or delivery at the last minute but sometimes it's the best option. Sometimes it's not, but if you can clear your head and think about the big picture you have a better chance at making the right call.

Keep the updates coming!!

And oh ya... try not to get the dozer stuck....

87262

zsqure
12-04-2012, 01:30 PM
not familiar with a "slinger truck"

I'm picturing it's something that spreads the gravel :confused:
If that's the case... We don't use them in my area, we just tailgate and drive to dump

You would be correct, A slinger truck is a truck with a conveyor belt that can be "aimed" to place material in a location. Some are configured like a concrete pumper and others carry the conveyor with them folded along side. Eliminates a lot of labor and mud clean up on the street.

mustangtexas
12-04-2012, 01:51 PM
I have not had any measurable rain at my place since may. Your photos helped me remember what mud looks like. Thank you.

bobx1
12-04-2012, 02:24 PM
....When your plans are derailed (ie broken/stuck machine) it's important to "take a step back". A change in perspective can make a world of difference....

Where I am from, this usually is accompanied by some type of alcohol intake.

thatsmrmastercraft
12-04-2012, 02:32 PM
Where I am from, this usually is accompanied by some type of alcohol intake.

Tend to look something like this?

bobx1
12-04-2012, 03:30 PM
Tend to look something like this?

Are you trying to insult the South? I think you need to quit hanging around with the elitist Canadians, put up your ice fishing gear and white wine, defrost your swim trunks, and come on down and have an attitude adjustment. :D

thatsmrmastercraft
12-04-2012, 04:13 PM
Are you trying to insult the South? I think you need to quit hanging around with the elitist Canadians, put up your ice fishing gear and white wine, defrost your swim trunks, and come on down and have an attitude adjustment. :D

No insult intended, though when you say the South, that encompasses a lot of territory, and a lot of different views of what the South is. Certainly there is room to insult some Southerners as there is room to insult most Canadians.:rolleyes:

Ice fishing hasn't quite started, and I'm more of a whiskey guy (haven't had any good shine in a while though). Might have to dig my swim trunks out of the back of the igloo.

mikeg205
12-04-2012, 04:42 PM
Are you trying to insult the South? I think you need to quit hanging around with the elitist Canadians, put up your ice fishing gear and white wine, defrost your swim trunks, and come on down and have an attitude adjustment. :D

Insult? Insult? He was showin' ya a bottle of the good stuff...not that first shot crap that can make ya sick...or that girly apple jack shine...He's was honorin' the south... hell most people think red neck is a derogatory term... :D:D:D

Best music comes from Nashville...I am stuck outside my southern comfort zone... ;) and it's those French Canadians that can get really cranky at times...the other one are very nice...

Thrall
12-04-2012, 06:53 PM
Good luck with the project jk.

Kyle
12-04-2012, 08:18 PM
As far as the skid steer goes, you had a track Hoe in the first group of pics. I take it the Hoe was not there to drag out the skid steer, bobcat, or what ever yall call it out of the buried hole. Also assume that you tried to use the bucket to push or pull while you drove it to try to get out.


I have used my F150KR to pull out a burried tractor out of a pond. Long story..... Tried to break the pond ice so that the cattle could drink. The Ice would not break until we drove out 15' on the pond and broke it with the Hay Fork. Then the tractor was stuck. Tried to back out in 4x4 and burried it more. I grabbed some drilling pipe and put a chain through the pipe and hooked it to the truck and the tractor. Using the pipe as a shock tube so that if the chain broke, my new tailgate or back glass would not be busted out. It worked great and the tractor came out real nice.


When you roll those tires off of the rims there are some interesting ways to reseat the bead.


1) Take a tow strap and wrap it around the tread and cynch it down and add air.

2) Take a flamable fluid and spray the inside of the rim and the outside of the tire and shoot a flame ball into the rim and when it blows up the explosion will reseat the bead and automatically blow out the fire. Then add more air to the tire.

3) You can take the tire off and take it to a truck stop and have them bead blast it. They will love how muddy it is.....




I personally like the flame thrower way along with a few beers or whiskey drinks :D

Kyle
12-04-2012, 08:29 PM
Tend to look something like this?

I have never been so drunk in my life off of anything other than shine. NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER AGAIN.....


Death was becoming a very good option at the time......


Layed in the bathroom for 48 hours and fought real hard to just make it to the sink to sip on some water to keep some kind of hydration.

SkiDog
12-04-2012, 08:44 PM
I have never been so drunk in my life off of anything other than shine. NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER AGAIN.....


Death was becoming a very good option at the time......


Layed in the bathroom for 48 hours and fought real hard to just make it to the sink to sip on some water to keep some kind of hydration.

Rookie
:D:D

Kyle
12-04-2012, 08:59 PM
Rookie
:D:D
http://vipstylecars.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley-rofl.gifhttp://vipstylecars.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley-rofl.gifhttp://vipstylecars.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley-rofl.gif

jkski
12-04-2012, 09:19 PM
Well, just got back in from the site. After my rough start to the day I took a step back, re-grouped and let the boys with the big toys do the heavy lifting. The dozer showed up around 9am and I had another 40 ton of 1's and 2's on its way to the site as well as a load of ground ashpalt to help fill in. I was at my day job all day so by the time I got back to the site it was pouring rain and the slinger truck was just getting ready to leave the site but the drive repairs looked to be holding pretty nicely, so hopefully we have improved the situation enough.

Someone had asked about the excavator that was in one of the pics and yes, it was gone from the site. I tried the bucket myself out method but it was too far gone and not worth burying my truck as well. The dozer got it out and set it over to the side so I took the rear wheels off in the pouring rain, threw them in the bed of my truck nad brought them home. I spent some time cleaning them off and they are headed to the shop tomorrow to see what can be done or if new ones are in order.

So, in trying to find the bright side of the situation I think I have solved my need for premium fill. Given where our garage will be, we will have to put a considerable amount of fill inside to bring it up to grade.....the front wall will be 10 course of block and the back wall will be 7 course....yep, the garage sits in a valley right now. So, since I was going to have to get premium fill anyways, I think I now have it on site and will simply scrape it up and put it in there as we will be raising the level of the drive leading to the garage a considerable amount and I really don't want to bury $3k worth of material!

I will update more tomorrow if the rain ever stops!

thatsmrmastercraft
12-04-2012, 09:21 PM
Insult? Insult? He was showin' ya a bottle of the good stuff...not that first shot crap that can make ya sick...or that girly apple jack shine...He's was honorin' the south... hell most people think red neck is a derogatory term... :D:D:D

Best music comes from Nashville...I am stuck outside my southern comfort zone... ;) and it's those French Canadians that can get really cranky at times...the other one are very nice...

Perhaps we are dealing with a snob like a relative of mine who will only drink Miller Lite...........and thinks everything else is undrinkable.

JimN
12-04-2012, 09:38 PM
Perhaps we are dealing with a snob like a relative of mine who will only drink Miller Lite...........and thinks everything else is undrinkable.

And Miller Lite is good beer? What a twit!

thatsmrmastercraft
12-04-2012, 09:41 PM
And Miller Lite is good beer? What a twit!

There is no explaining some people's taste...or lack thereof.

mikeg205
12-04-2012, 10:06 PM
Thread jack - beer.... beer should not be light... Sorry Tim that included Coor's light. Miller High Life/Corona is the starting point... and that beer tasted light - now back to buildin' the house on that cool lot...

thatsmrmastercraft
12-04-2012, 10:12 PM
I disagree, there is a place for light beer when you are working on the stinking hot day. In the same light that I wouldn't drink a light beer while sitting in front of a fireplace on a cold winter's night.

mikeg205
12-04-2012, 10:20 PM
Ok...I'll agree to disagree.. the great beer debate rages on... :)

thatsmrmastercraft
12-04-2012, 10:23 PM
Ok...I'll agree to disagree.. the great beer debate rages on... :)

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing great about lite beer.:D:D:D

mikeg205
12-04-2012, 10:33 PM
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing great about lite beer.:D:D:D

Okay...next time I'm am rollin' thru the Twin cities... we'll have to have some beers and discuss the attributes of the beverages...lol... :D -

thatsmrmastercraft
12-04-2012, 10:34 PM
Okay...next time I'm am rollin' thru the Twin cities... we'll have to have some beers and discuss the attributes of the beverages...lol... :D -

Sounds like a plan.

Footin
12-04-2012, 10:35 PM
Hey Jeff, are you on Medina Line or Everett?

jkski
12-05-2012, 07:47 AM
Hey Jeff, are you on Medina Line or Everett?

Mike,
The house is located on Medina Line Rd.. Being that you are familiar with the area, if you come off of Everett and head north on Medina Line you cross over 271 and my drive is the 2nd one on the left........or just follow the mud trail!
Put that truck in 4wd and come on back if you are in the area!

jkski
12-05-2012, 08:04 AM
Not sure if I had posted these before in another thread but here are a few shots of how the driveway began and what it looked like prior to Monday. The good news is that 95% of the drive is holding up to the traffic just fine, and with the concrete trucks being the heaviest things that will roll down it, 2 of them have not done much damage. The other good thing is that the weather is turning colder so it should help to firm up the ground.

Well, we will see what today brings and I will try to get more pics later of the progress.

zsqure
12-05-2012, 01:30 PM
Nice! I see a BIG pole building in your future.

thatsmrmastercraft
12-05-2012, 02:20 PM
Nice! I see a BIG pole building in your future.

That would be mandatory. Doors on either end so you can drive through with the boat, and park the whole rig inside still hooked up.

Thrall
12-05-2012, 02:28 PM
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing great about lite beer.:D:D:D

Quite the contrary! Ever try puttin down a case of "heavy " beer? Aint gonna happen unless you some time to work on it. By the time you get a good buzz goin' you're too full to drink any more!:D
"Heavy" beer is for wine drinkers that are too embarrassed to drink wine in front of their buddies. "Light" beer is a drinkin' man's beer!:cool::cool:

Is this thread about building a house or getting drunK? (I know they go hand in hand!):D

jkski
12-05-2012, 03:51 PM
That would be mandatory. Doors on either end so you can drive through with the boat, and park the whole rig inside still hooked up.

You would be absolutely correct. The plan.....when I recover financially from the home construction, will be to add a 40x60 pole building with a 12' door so that I can always leave the rig connected. Not sure if I will have enough room to make it a drive thru or not given the location I am planning to put it in but I should be OK.....heck it's just more stone and another garage door right!!!

76S&S
12-05-2012, 04:05 PM
You would be absolutely correct. The plan.....when I recover financially from the home construction, will be to add a 40x60 pole building with a 12' door so that I can always leave the rig connected. Not sure if I will have enough room to make it a drive thru or not given the location I am planning to put it in but I should be OK.....heck it's just more stone and another garage door right!!!

and roof, and lights, and shelves, and ............$$$:D

Double D
12-05-2012, 04:16 PM
You would be absolutely correct. The plan.....when I recover financially from the home construction, will be to add a 40x60 pole building with a 12' door so that I can always leave the rig connected. Not sure if I will have enough room to make it a drive thru or not given the location I am planning to put it in but I should be OK.....heck it's just more stone and another garage door right!!!

All that money doesn't leave any spending for that tower you were thinking about... :( Some day....

thatsmrmastercraft
12-05-2012, 04:40 PM
You would be absolutely correct. The plan.....when I recover financially from the home construction, will be to add a 40x60 pole building with a 12' door so that I can always leave the rig connected. Not sure if I will have enough room to make it a drive thru or not given the location I am planning to put it in but I should be OK.....heck it's just more stone and another garage door right!!!

Always pays to plan ahead.

jkski
12-05-2012, 08:04 PM
Well, today things seemed to get better and possibly back on track. The additional 60 ton of stone combined with the 20 ton of ground asphalt seemed to create a stable path of the block trucks to get in and out.
So, 2 or 3 block tucks delivered today and the guys got rolling. I was amazed to see how far they got in the course of the day and with the forecast calling for sunny and 46 degrees tomorrow and pretty much nothing but rain Friday thru the weekend, well I think they will be shooting to get a lot done tomorrow.

Things are taking shape that is for sure. I should have the skidder tires/wheels back tomorrow so that will be back in action for the weekend of driveway repair......I hope!

As for the future tower DD, well, I am still hopeful for that in 2013 but if you guys want to take up a collection and send it to me, well that would go a long ways towards making it a reality!

Thanks for the interest in the project guys, it is fun to share the ups and downs. Perspective is what it is all about, I am finding. In the grande scheme of things, no matter what may go wrong I am still far better off than many people in the world and lucky to be so! At the end of each day I can come home to a wife and a smiling 1.5 year old boy that knows nothing of the days trials/tribulations and furthermore does not care, which is just great.

milkmania
12-05-2012, 08:09 PM
dang!
gettin' after it!!!!
time lapse video would be so cool

Double D
12-05-2012, 09:17 PM
Well, today things seemed to get better and possibly back on track. The additional 60 ton of stone combined with the 20 ton of ground asphalt seemed to create a stable path of the block trucks to get in and out.
So, 2 or 3 block tucks delivered today and the guys got rolling. I was amazed to see how far they got in the course of the day and with the forecast calling for sunny and 46 degrees tomorrow and pretty much nothing but rain Friday thru the weekend, well I think they will be shooting to get a lot done tomorrow.

Things are taking shape that is for sure. I should have the skidder tires/wheels back tomorrow so that will be back in action for the weekend of driveway repair......I hope!

As for the future tower DD, well, I am still hopeful for that in 2013 but if you guys want to take up a collection and send it to me, well that would go a long ways towards making it a reality!

Thanks for the interest in the project guys, it is fun to share the ups and downs. Perspective is what it is all about, I am finding. In the grande scheme of things, no matter what may go wrong I am still far better off than many people in the world and lucky to be so! At the end of each day I can come home to a wife and a smiling 1.5 year old boy that knows nothing of the days trials/tribulations and furthermore does not care, which is just great.

Looks Awesome Jeff. Looked at your site on Google maps today. Thats a long drive!!

Just remember, not to burst your bubble, they grow up.... :( :D. Enjoy it while you can because they grow up so fast... :(

thatsmrmastercraft
12-05-2012, 11:08 PM
Looking good. Happy to hear things took a turn for the better.

Kyle
12-06-2012, 12:56 AM
Looks good.

Will be fun watching the build.

JohnnyB
12-06-2012, 06:53 AM
Why the block foundation instead of poured walls? Seems like it would cost more?

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jkski
12-06-2012, 07:15 AM
Why the block foundation instead of poured walls? Seems like it would cost more?

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I thought this as well and still am somewhat perplexed that it is not cheaper to go poured wall but I had it bid both ways and block was cheaper. My thought was the labor cost in block would be more than the added cost of concrete but I was wrong as, in our area, concrete if pretty high. In addition, despite the fact that the poured wall companies have paid for their forms over and over, they still charge a premium.

I think an argument could be made either way and I weighed out the pros and cons of both, in the end the block was the better, more cost effective way to go. Depending on your location and what the mason prices are, it may be a different story for you. I know around here, the big cookie cutter builders all use poured walls, but then again they also have a house completely under roof in 2 weeks time if not less.

jkski
12-06-2012, 07:17 AM
Looks Awesome Jeff. Looked at your site on Google maps today. Thats a long drive!!

Just remember, not to burst your bubble, they grow up.... :( :D. Enjoy it while you can because they grow up so fast... :(

I hear ya, I want to freeze him as he is now but I also look forward to the days when he can be right there beside me helping out. Right now he does a great job of riding around in the skidsteer with me when I am doing light work......his little 30lb but gets me extra traction!!!

2RLAKE
12-06-2012, 08:24 AM
I thought this as well and still am somewhat perplexed that it is not cheaper to go poured wall but I had it bid both ways and block was cheaper. My thought was the labor cost in block would be more than the added cost of concrete but I was wrong as, in our area, concrete if pretty high. In addition, despite the fact that the poured wall companies have paid for their forms over and over, they still charge a premium.

I think an argument could be made either way and I weighed out the pros and cons of both, in the end the block was the better, more cost effective way to go. Depending on your location and what the mason prices are, it may be a different story for you. I know around here, the big cookie cutter builders all use poured walls, but then again they also have a house completely under roof in 2 weeks time if not less.

the other option is superior walls ... precast walls and set in place via crane ... its typically more cost effective dependent on the number of corners ... there is a threshold at which block/poured is more effective if you have too many corners. I used them for my house in Cincinnati and it worked terrifically well

JohnE
12-06-2012, 08:39 AM
Everything is poured concrete around here. It would cost double to do block. Poured is cheaper and better IMO.

Interestingly my ex BIL is in NJ, and wanted to do a poured foundation and could not find anyone to do if for less than double the cost of block.

jkski
12-06-2012, 08:43 AM
I would have bet that poured would be cheaper but after having it bid both ways I would have lost that bet. Still hard to believe given the labor and skill level involved with setting block (not that it does not take skill to set the forms and correctly pour them) but I guess in the end that is offset by the increase in material cost as you have more concrete.

76S&S
12-06-2012, 09:17 AM
Looking good, it's amazing how fast the shell goes up, then it seems to take forever to finish out.

JohnE
12-06-2012, 09:57 AM
I would have bet that poured would be cheaper but after having it bid both ways I would have lost that bet. Still hard to believe given the labor and skill level involved with setting block (not that it does not take skill to set the forms and correctly pour them) but I guess in the end that is offset by the increase in material cost as you have more concrete.

Concrete here is about $85/ yd. and forming and pouring is about $17/ foot for walls plus footing. What is your cost on block?

Shooter McKevin
12-06-2012, 12:50 PM
I meant to ask about your plan with the skidsteer. It sucks that your tracks broke. Are you getting them back on? I've used them before and really liked them. The over tire tracks aren't perfect, but for your situation I'd definitely be using them. Do you like them?

Were they able to put your old tires back on? I was hoping so, because I found that the tracks chew up the side walls of the tires quite a bit so it would suck to chew up a pair of new tires. One mistake I made was when I couldn't figure out why the machine wasn't quite grading properly. I thought I'd bent the bucket. It was actually from a low tire but I couldn't tell right away because the tracks cover them. Check the tire pressure! The low tire got chewed a little extra by the track and wore / broke the rubber nubs on the tracks quite a bit too.

Shooter McKevin
12-06-2012, 12:58 PM
Perspective is what it is all about, I am finding. In the grande scheme of things, no matter what may go wrong I am still far better off than many people in the world and lucky to be so! At the end of each day I can come home to a wife and a smiling 1.5 year old boy that knows nothing of the days trials/tribulations and furthermore does not care, which is just great.

I'll toast to that!! :toast:

jkski
12-06-2012, 04:51 PM
Concrete here is about $85/ yd. and forming and pouring is about $17/ foot for walls plus footing. What is your cost on block?

Not sure of my exact block cost as we had to add some to make the garage work so once I have it all re-figured with the addition on the pumping truck for the footers I will shoot you a figure.

jkski
12-06-2012, 04:55 PM
I meant to ask about your plan with the skidsteer. It sucks that your tracks broke. Are you getting them back on? I've used them before and really liked them. The over tire tracks aren't perfect, but for your situation I'd definitely be using them. Do you like them?

Were they able to put your old tires back on? I was hoping so, because I found that the tracks chew up the side walls of the tires quite a bit so it would suck to chew up a pair of new tires. One mistake I made was when I couldn't figure out why the machine wasn't quite grading properly. I thought I'd bent the bucket. It was actually from a low tire but I couldn't tell right away because the tracks cover them. Check the tire pressure! The low tire got chewed a little extra by the track and wore / broke the rubber nubs on the tracks quite a bit too.

Got the tires back today and they were able to patch/plug the hole they found in each tire, clean the bead and reseat them so all is good. The tires are back on the machine and I am ready to roll.
The tracks do indeed chew-up the tire treads but I love them. I think I need to run them a bit tighter as I had them adjusted to the 3" slack minimum and acording to Grouser you should be between 1" and 3", so a little adjustment may help with the fact that my tires were spinning inside the tracks. The ground I am working with is a wet, slick clay, so once the tires get caked inside the tracks, they tend to slip a bit. I do have to get some new bushings and bolts for the track now since I busted one of them and it looks like Grouser is the only place to get the parts needed.

jkski
12-06-2012, 05:03 PM
The weather started off cold this morning but improved to be mid 40's and sun, so the block guys were back at it but down 2 guys, one of which was the other mason, so with only 1 guy setting the block progress was a bit slower today but still good. As of the time I left the site, pretty much the entire back wall was up and the sides were taking shape nicely. The garage and walkout area will be next but the walkout is mostly framed construction so not nearly as much block to lay up.
Grilled up some Brats for the guys and had lunch with them, they are great guys.

Today follies:
Picked the skidder tires up from the repair shop, got them to the site, unloaded and figured out they had mounted one the wrong direction. With directional tread and offset wheels you have to have 2 rights and 2 lefts matching......so it was back to the shop with one wheel so they could flip it, then back to the site to put it on! It just wouldn't be a complete day without at least one thing to laugh about, and that is just what I did, laugh because I should have checked them before leaving the shop the first time around!

jkski
12-06-2012, 05:08 PM
Question regarding backfilling:
So I am planning to do my own backfilling and my original plan was to have the slinger truck shoot in the back wall to about 3 feet from the top. In talking to the mason he said with the waterproofing product that is going on I will have a 25 year warranty and actually advised me to save the money and not shoot as much gravel or to put down gravel against the wall with dirt pushing against it. Problem is, my overdig is roughly 2 feet so how do I manage to put dirt and gravel in without the two co-mingling. Also, should I plan on putting in some type of fliter cloth?

JohnE
12-06-2012, 07:26 PM
I can't imagine doing a block foundation. Around here, they set up and pour footing one day and typically (unless you are getting shafted like me) form and pour the 2nd day and strip the forms on day 3.

To backfill properly you should use the gravel and compact it.

What did you install for a perimeter drain?

zsqure
12-06-2012, 07:48 PM
Don't compact against a freshly laid block wall unless you shore up the inside like crazy (or wait two weeks). If you use gravel, it is highly compacted as it goes in. Sand is the cheapest and most forgiving. the water will flow through it and compact slowly. Backfilled my own home and used sand, dirt/clay is no fun and doesn't flow and will take forever to naturally compact. You don't want a cracked wall. start on the corners and work toward the middle. Trickle it in with your skidsteer, some builders claim the first floor setting on the block will hold it better when backfilling vs. open foundation. Have you ran water and sewer already? Or, at least stubbed it out so you don't have to tunnel under the foundation?

milkmania
12-06-2012, 07:48 PM
The weather started off cold this morning but improved to be mid 40's and sun, so the block guys were back at it but down 2 guys, one of which was the other mason, so with only 1 guy setting the block progress was a bit slower today but still good. As of the time I left the site, pretty much the entire back wall was up and the sides were taking shape nicely. The garage and walkout area will be next but the walkout is mostly framed construction so not nearly as much block to lay up.
Grilled up some Brats for the guys and had lunch with them, they are great guys.

Today follies:
Picked the skidder tires up from the repair shop, got them to the site, unloaded and figured out they had mounted one the wrong direction. With directional tread and offset wheels you have to have 2 rights and 2 lefts matching......so it was back to the shop with one wheel so they could flip it, then back to the site to put it on! It just wouldn't be a complete day without at least one thing to laugh about, and that is just what I did, laugh because I should have checked them before leaving the shop the first time around!

that's the best part;)
Oftentimes the laborers get overlooked....
That's like tipping the tire guy a $20.00 because he gets your free tire rotation done ASAP:)

zsqure
12-06-2012, 07:52 PM
Jeff we had Grouser tracks for our bobcats and got dog-bones, bolts and bushings from LEPPO.

JohnE
12-06-2012, 07:54 PM
Building code here states that the foundation can not be back filled until the first floor framing is installed. That never happens. Typically it doesn't even get braced. But the excavator needs to be careful. I know of 2 foundations in the past week that have been damaged and needed to be repaired due to carelessness.

Hammer
12-06-2012, 09:49 PM
I highly recommend first floor framing before backfilling when using block. Its just not strong enough to hold it back with big spans. And I would have them fill the block with concrete and re-bar if its not required in your area. I am a GC in NC and that is the only way I will even consider block. Though we have a really heavy red clay in our area and creates a lot of pressure on the walls.

jkski
12-07-2012, 06:40 AM
Jeff we had Grouser tracks for our bobcats and got dog-bones, bolts and bushings from LEPPO.

Never thought of talking to Leppo, thanks for the tip I will check with them today.

jkski
12-07-2012, 06:44 AM
Building code here states that the foundation can not be back filled until the first floor framing is installed. That never happens. Typically it doesn't even get braced. But the excavator needs to be careful. I know of 2 foundations in the past week that have been damaged and needed to be repaired due to carelessness.

Code in our area also states that the first floor must be on and truthfully, there is no way I would backfill until that floor is on to tie it all together, even if it wasn't code.
My plan at this point is to have the slinger truck gravel 6' up the back wall while we dump in the side walls keeping pace, then put fabric over the top and grade the dirt level in accordingly.
As always, suggestions and tips are appreciated.

JohnnyB
12-07-2012, 07:03 AM
Don't know how to advise w block. In a poured foundation we do 2 coats of waterproof coating. The drain tile has a fabric sock. We do 2 ft of gravel and then back fill.

I also put 2" of foam board on all exterior foundation walls and 1" and poly barrier under the floor. My basement is dry and warm.

Had energy star model it and crunched several insulation options to get best bang for my buck!

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zsqure
12-07-2012, 08:36 AM
If you need fabric to lay over the footer drain, PS Construction fabrics (or something like that) in Rittman has or had the best prices. I have not been doing the underground stuff since '06. 57south to eastern rd (east), north on Pifer. usually it is 12 or 16' widths.

jkski
12-08-2012, 03:30 PM
The progress continues and despite the rough start to the week and the wet weather, things have really taken shape.
They are calling for rain the next 3 days so I doubt anything new will take place until Tuesday or Wednesday but they are saying they will be done laying block by the end of next week.....weather permitting of course.

Enjoy.

milkmania
12-08-2012, 05:13 PM
ya know...
you could make that mote all the way around the house and then.......
http://rcboatsonly.com/images/flying-fish-electric-catamaran-rc-boat.jpg

jkski
12-08-2012, 06:25 PM
I like what you are thinking! I do want one of those for the pond eventually.....either that or I might try to kidnap Twiggy the skiing squirell and put him/her behind an MC!

jhall0711
12-09-2012, 01:35 AM
That would be sweet.....

Thrall
12-09-2012, 05:21 AM
jk keep that water pumped out of your footer or you may have problems with settlement of the walkout.
X2 on the insulation outside the fdn walls.
The main objectives with the bfill are compaction and drainage down to the perimeter drain. You could use drain board on the fdn walls and bfill w native or use free draining material like gravel or sand with no drain board.
Run the cost, labor to place and compact the native clay plus drain board vs cost of sand or gravel ( less labor since less compaction effort reqd ).
Regarding not overrunning on gravel, a good excavator operator can "pinch" the gravel in reducing gravel qty but you will still need to compact like it was all native material.
It's coming along nicely. Once you get out of the mud and start framing it'll really fly!

jkski
12-12-2012, 07:48 AM
We are getting closer to having the basement block all done. As of late yesterday the walkout area was pretty much done leaving only the south wall of the walkout and the garage left to do. The garage would be quick if it did not fall in a low spot causing it to be 10 course on the front side and 7 course on the back........YES, that is a lot of fill material!

The mason's are saying they will be done on Friday and the waterproofers will be next in-line, then I get to start rough grading and filling the garage. At this point, the framers are "scheduled" to begin on December 26th.

JimN
12-12-2012, 08:17 AM
We are getting closer to having the basement block all done. As of late yesterday the walkout area was pretty much done leaving only the south wall of the walkout and the garage left to do. The garage would be quick if it did not fall in a low spot causing it to be 10 course on the front side and 7 course on the back........YES, that is a lot of fill material!

The mason's are saying they will be done on Friday and the waterproofers will be next in-line, then I get to start rough grading and filling the garage. At this point, the framers are "scheduled" to begin on December 26th.

You could eliminate filling it if you dig deeper and install a pit, so you can work on vehicles standing underneath. Probably cheaper if you just install a lift, though. Either way, it beats laying on a creeper.

jkski
12-12-2012, 08:25 AM
You could eliminate filling it if you dig deeper and install a pit, so you can work on vehicles standing underneath. Probably cheaper if you just install a lift, though. Either way, it beats laying on a creeper.

That is a great idea, where were you during the planning phase!!! I would love to do that but I thought about it more for the pole barn as opposed to the garage, although I really do not work on my own cars much anymore as it is all too technical and "when" I screw something up it ends up costing me 3 times as much!

JimN
12-12-2012, 10:33 AM
That is a great idea, where were you during the planning phase!!! I would love to do that but I thought about it more for the pole barn as opposed to the garage, although I really do not work on my own cars much anymore as it is all too technical and "when" I screw something up it ends up costing me 3 times as much!

How will you work on that classic car when you buy it?

Shooter McKevin
12-12-2012, 12:15 PM
That is a great idea, where were you during the planning phase!!! I would love to do that but I thought about it more for the pole barn as opposed to the garage, although I really do not work on my own cars much anymore as it is all too technical and "when" I screw something up it ends up costing me 3 times as much!

I was going to keep my mouth shut because I knew the plans are set, but Jim opened the door for me...

My cousin had the same situation with the garage on his build, so he added a little gun room down there. Half reloading lab, half gun display center. It's awesome.

Others might add wine cellar.

JimN
12-12-2012, 01:11 PM
What, no gun range?

thatsmrmastercraft
12-12-2012, 01:14 PM
What, no gun range?

Now that be nice.

Shooter McKevin
12-12-2012, 01:15 PM
What, no gun range?

His back yard is his gun range.

jkski
12-12-2012, 02:19 PM
Man that would have been a cool idea, maybe I will have to build a room under the pole barn instead!!! Oh wait, that would take money something I will no longer have when this is done....not that I had any to begin with but one can always dream!

jkski
12-13-2012, 07:58 AM
Here are a few pics I took last night. The basement should be completed today and the remainder of the garage block is set to arrive sometime this morning so that they can get that underway. The waterproofers are scheduled for Friday and then it is time to move some more dirt around.
As of yesterday the framers are now set to start on either the 27th or January 2nd, depending on when lumbar can arrive on site.
The weather here is nice for the next few days so that should not stand in the way of the block getting done and should help to momentarily dry things out a bit.

JulioX2
12-13-2012, 09:42 AM
I've never seen a cinder block foundation before used for a basement. Is that normal for your area?

ski_king
12-13-2012, 10:52 AM
I've never seen a cinder block foundation before used for a basement. Is that normal for your area?

Cinderblock basements account for about 75% of the houses being built in my area (western PA), not too far from where jkski is building his house.

jkski, you mentioned you are going with log/timberframe construction, do you have any further details on this. I built a my log house a few years ago.

jkski
12-13-2012, 02:05 PM
The actual construction of the home will resemble long/timberframe but will be traditional stick framed. I would like to have gone the true postand beam route but the cost was way more than I could take on and looking to the future I wanted to minimize my maintenance. The exterior of the home will be a vinyl siding that resembles the 1/4 log look (if you google Timbermill vinyl siding and look at the American Cedar you will see what I am using). We really liked the product and while it is less expensive than traditional 1/4 log wood siding and obviously little maintenance. The downside is that it costs considerably more than traditional vinyl siding.

thatsmrmastercraft
12-13-2012, 03:54 PM
The actual construction of the home will resemble long/timberframe but will be traditional stick framed. I would like to have gone the true postand beam route but the cost was way more than I could take on and looking to the future I wanted to minimize my maintenance. The exterior of the home will be a vinyl siding that resembles the 1/4 log look (if you google Timbermill vinyl siding and look at the American Cedar you will see what I am using). We really liked the product and while it is less expensive than traditional 1/4 log wood siding and obviously little maintenance. The downside is that it costs considerably more than traditional vinyl siding.

Interesting stuff. Looking forward to how that turns out.

jkski
12-15-2012, 07:56 AM
Well, the house block is now completed and they are moving along quickly on the garage. The waterproofers did not make it out yesterday (Friday) and with the weather not looking the greatest I am not sure when they will be there. As of the time I left the site last night the plan was to cover the all of the block to keep it dry. They may go out today to try and finish the garage area, so we will be working on some grading and backfill next week as well as trenching in the gasline, electric and trenching out the footer drain.

When I got to the site the mason had a flat, so I spent a little time fixing that for him, figured it couldn't hurt to have a little good Karma working for me and besides, he probably got the hole from the recycled material I brought in for the driveway fill....so it was pretty much my fault the way I see it. I can't wait to bury that junk material in the garage area as fill. If anyone is considering using recylced for their drive, I suggest you really look into the cost difference and just how "clean" your supplier can get the stuff, mine is riddled with everything from concrete wire to angle iron. I will take a pic of the junk I picked-up so far next time I am at the site.

JohnnyB
12-15-2012, 09:15 AM
Cinderblock basements account for about 75% of the houses being built in my area (western PA), not too far from where jkski is building his house.

jkski, you mentioned you are going with log/timberframe construction, do you have any further details on this. I built a my log house a few years ago.

Looks like an area that could use more poured wall contractors....... That seems like a lot of time and labor cost for block v. Poured walls

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jkski
12-15-2012, 09:22 AM
Looks like an area that could use more poured wall contractors....... That seems like a lot of time and labor cost for block v. Poured walls

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I thought the same thing and while there are a lot of contractors in our area who do the poured walls as a "standard" it was actually cheaper for me to go block. I guess that the added material cost of concrete vs block and labor just made it cost prohibitive. In our area, the poured walls are mostly done by the big, high volume home builders who already own the forms, etc.. and it is part of their package. They come in, pour the walls and are framing in a couple of days.

SkiDog
12-15-2012, 10:03 AM
Have you poured the cells yet? I didn't see any rebar sticking up and no anchor bolts either. I may be a lil:confused:

thatsmrmastercraft
12-15-2012, 10:29 AM
Going to have them dig and block in a duck blind while you are at it?

jkski
12-15-2012, 02:32 PM
The rebar is there and the cells are poured, the pics just do not show it very well.
As for the duck blind, while I am not a hunter you certainly could set-up camp within the warm confines of my lower level corner office and shoot right out of the window without your feet or coffee getting cold!

thatsmrmastercraft
12-15-2012, 02:33 PM
The rebar is there and the cells are poured, the pics just do not show it very well.
As for the duck blind, while I am not a hunter you certainly could set-up camp within the warm confines of my lower level corner office and shoot right out of the window without your feet or coffee getting cold!

:uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme

JohnE
12-15-2012, 08:59 PM
I'm still curious about the cost of the block foundation. I asked earlier. Not asking for any reason other than comparison as I am in a different geographical area. Can be via pm. Again, not saying it is the wrong choice in your area.

jkski
12-16-2012, 08:54 AM
I'm still curious about the cost of the block foundation. I asked earlier. Not asking for any reason other than comparison as I am in a different geographical area. Can be via pm. Again, not saying it is the wrong choice in your area.

John,
Sorry for the delay in reply, I simply forgot to get back to you, no other excuse.
I will shoot you a pm with the specific cost details.

JohnnyB
12-16-2012, 09:04 AM
I thought the same thing and while there are a lot of contractors in our area who do the poured walls as a "standard" it was actually cheaper for me to go block. I guess that the added material cost of concrete vs block and labor just made it cost prohibitive. In our area, the poured walls are mostly done by the big, high volume home builders who already own the forms, etc.. and it is part of their package. They come in, pour the walls and are framing in a couple of days.

I am sure you did your due diligence, found the best cost/value option for your build and saw your earlier posts regarding this but can't help but think there is a business opportunity for someone in your area to do this as a service outside of the builders and do it cheaper/faster/better while making a decent living doing it.

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JohnnyB
12-16-2012, 09:05 AM
Hope your weather cooperates! Keep the pics coming!!

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jkski
12-16-2012, 09:10 AM
There are people who do this solely as their own business but it helps to be tied into a larger home builder. From what I understand, the forms are quite costly and you need a steady diet of similar homes to pay for them, something that a large scale builder can easily provide. In our area, you don't typically find the smaller concrete operations who do driveways, walks, etc., doing poured walls, just because of the cost of forms.
I did have an independent bid the walls for my house and they were a little over $2k higher. Now, that being said, given the cost overruns I hit straight out of the gate with having to go more courses in my garage and having to bring in a pumper trailer, I may have eaten through the savings!

As far as the weather goes......not looking so good for this week as it is going to be pretty wet with no real sign of a good freeze or dryspell for the next 10 days.

JohnE
12-16-2012, 09:28 AM
There are people who do this solely as their own business but it helps to be tied into a larger home builder. From what I understand, the forms are quite costly and you need a steady diet of similar homes to pay for them, something that a large scale builder can easily provide. In our area, you don't typically find the smaller concrete operations who do driveways, walks, etc., doing poured walls, just because of the cost of forms.
I did have an independent bid the walls for my house and they were a little over $2k higher. Now, that being said, given the cost overruns I hit straight out of the gate with having to go more courses in my garage and having to bring in a pumper trailer, I may have eaten through the savings!

As far as the weather goes......not looking so good for this week as it is going to be pretty wet with no real sign of a good freeze or dryspell for the next 10 days.

You'd have had the cost overruns with poured walls too. More concrete and more form work. And still would have needed the pumper. You still saved a few grand. Wish I could change the weather for you. Thanks for the PM.

Thrall
12-17-2012, 07:22 PM
Poured concrete typically is more costly for the diy contractor. Mainly cost of formwork combined with access to place the concrete. Unless it's a level pad that you can drive the mixer truck around you pretty much are relegated to pumping the concrete which is costly.
Now combine the cost of pumping and you now need to have enough forms to do the whole basement and garage at once or pumping costs go crazy.
At $3-4/sf/mo form rental (what formwork outfits charge home owners for crappy old forms), the cost goes up pretty quick.
To mediate those costs and still do a poured basement, last house I built, I scheduled the excavation work to coincide with pour days and used the excavator (bucket) to place the concrete. Ended up costing me about 1.5hrs of excavator time per pour, 3 pours. Still less than the cost to pump the whole thing at once. I poured about 2/3 of the bsmt ftgs and walkout ftgs and walls chute dump by leaving a ramp into the basement from the front. Tore the ramp out then did the rest by bucket.
For formwork, I bought enough BB plywood to do about 1/3 of the walls. Took good care of the plywood, then re-used about 80% of the plywood as sub flooring. Since it wasn't t&g plywood I cross sheeted with 1/2" OSB at less than $10/sheet. Ended up with 1-1/4" of flooring for barely any more $ than t&g plywood and since alot of the main level was tile I negated the need for cement board underlayment under the tile.
And I rented a couple barrels of form clamps from a local guy I met at the bar for 2 cases of cheap beer!
If I hadn't jumped thru all those hoops, block walls would have been more economical.

JohnE
12-17-2012, 08:13 PM
Poured concrete typically is more costly for the diy contractor. Mainly cost of formwork combined with access to place the concrete. Unless it's a level pad that you can drive the mixer truck around you pretty much are relegated to pumping the concrete which is costly.
Now combine the cost of pumping and you now need to have enough forms to do the whole basement and garage at once or pumping costs go crazy.
At $3-4/sf/mo form rental (what formwork outfits charge home owners for crappy old forms), the cost goes up pretty quick.
To mediate those costs and still do a poured basement, last house I built, I scheduled the excavation work to coincide with pour days and used the excavator (bucket) to place the concrete. Ended up costing me about 1.5hrs of excavator time per pour, 3 pours. Still less than the cost to pump the whole thing at once. I poured about 2/3 of the bsmt ftgs and walkout ftgs and walls chute dump by leaving a ramp into the basement from the front. Tore the ramp out then did the rest by bucket.
For formwork, I bought enough BB plywood to do about 1/3 of the walls. Took good care of the plywood, then re-used about 80% of the plywood as sub flooring. Since it wasn't t&g plywood I cross sheeted with 1/2" OSB at less than $10/sheet. Ended up with 1-1/4" of flooring for barely any more $ than t&g plywood and since alot of the main level was tile I negated the need for cement board underlayment under the tile.
And I rented a couple barrels of form clamps from a local guy I met at the bar for 2 cases of cheap beer!
If I hadn't jumped thru all those hoops, block walls would have been more economical.

It's all dependent upon what is prevalent in your area. Block would be double what poured costs in my area. Your last house reminds me of the old days. Here in MA the carpenter would form the entire house using forms made on the site. They used 2 x stock and 1 x 8 rough sawn. Then 100% of the material was used to build the house. The 2 x's for framing and the rough sawn was used as subfloor with the concrete stained side down.

jkski
12-18-2012, 06:22 PM
We got a couple of dry enough days and the waterproofers were able to do their thing. So, the block is now waterproofed and insulated up to grade, the footer drains are covered with 2 feet of gravel with the footer drain inspection taking place tomorrow. After the inspection we can start to add some additional gravel over the footer drains and backfill up a portion of the foundation as well as most of the garage. The garage will be a bit tricky as we have to fill the inside and outside at the same pace to support the wall......it is good to have friends!

Thrall
12-18-2012, 07:46 PM
Sweet, it's really taking shape now.

Thrall
12-18-2012, 07:56 PM
It's all dependent upon what is prevalent in your area. Block would be double what poured costs in my area. Your last house reminds me of the old days. Here in MA the carpenter would form the entire house using forms made on the site. They used 2 x stock and 1 x 8 rough sawn. Then 100% of the material was used to build the house. The 2 x's for framing and the rough sawn was used as subfloor with the concrete stained side down.

If I was doing a finished basement in a rustic looking house I would totally use random planks for forms and then stain and seal the concrete to make a finished product out of it in a bar/pool room.
Yeah, used all the 2x4s up in the framing afterwards (inside wall plates and misc stuff) as well.
I was bein' green and didn't even know it!
Actually it was just the most economical route. I may not have gotten the best prices on poured fdn or block walls since I knew almost no one in the area when I did the house and the biggest local home builder/lumber yard didn't get the job after they told my parents it would be an 18+ month project :eek: to build the house.
They didn't even want to sell me any materials at first unless I sole sourced to them until I sat down with the owner one day, explained the situation and asked him if he would like potentially a little profit from my house or none at all. He decided something was better than nothing and we got along fabulously after that. (I think I was the first person in quite some time to shop the 2 lumber yards in town against each other for every order.:D)

jkski
12-18-2012, 08:11 PM
Just curious...how far are you guys filling up your wall with gravel to cover the footer drains? Are you putting in any type of filter fabric on top of the gravel?
Right now I am at 2 feet of gravel over the footer drains (which is code for my area) and while I would like to be able to go up farther, most people who have seen my site say that they would not bother as we set high on a hill and can cut a swayle in to direct any possible water around the house.
Thoughts???

Thrall
12-18-2012, 08:45 PM
I'd throw a layer of filter fabric down just as cheap insurance that the fine soil you're backfilling with over the gravel doesn't leach down over time and plug the gravel or worse, the drains.
Site drainage, IMO is one of those thing you can never "over do." The cost/hassle to fix a drainage issue down the road is very prohibitive. (Think tearing out your drive pad or a deck or landscaping just to prepare to make a mess re-excavating.)
If you have ground water I'd consider putting drain board on the foundation walls down to just below the top of the gravel as well. If no ground water, no problem, but the key is to allow ANY water that is going to contact your foundation (especially block) the quickest ride possible back away from the house.

JohnE
12-18-2012, 09:22 PM
X2 on the filter fabric. It's required and standard here. I'm fortunate as I had street drainage to tie into. (Granted I'm on a third acre lot) You can't be too careful with the drains. I have my perimeter drain running through a foot of crushed stone with the filter fabric above. The a separate drain piping all the gutters into the street drain. Given your situation, you can drain everything to daylight in the back yard and achieve the same results.

SkiDog
12-18-2012, 10:17 PM
jkski, don't know if you're on Pintrest or not, but they have a lot of great ideas for homes and interiors, as well as exteriors. Check it out.

jkski
12-19-2012, 07:54 AM
Thanks for the input guys, more gravel and filter fabric it is then. We are still working out a gameplan for filling the garage so that I do not have issues down the road. Premium-fill keeps winning the battle so it looks like I will be getting pricing today on roughly 200 ton of that, another 60 ton of sand to fill around the outside of the walkout area and just for good measure another 40 ton of washed 57 for backfill drainage..........yep, it's gonna be another expensive day!

Thrall
12-19-2012, 12:33 PM
You didn't say whether there is active ground water at or above your ftg elevation currently. If there isn't then you have less of a concern.
2' of rock above the drain tile is plenty. If you want to go higher with rock consider drain board on the fdn walls, certainly less labor and equipment cost than filling with rock.

What is the native soil? Unless it's clay you can use it to backfill even semi structural areas, garage slab, drivepad, etc as long as it's proper moisture and compaction. Think of it this way. Your entire house is sitting on a 2-3' wide ftg on that material (unless you sub exc'ed and bridged over the native material).
IMO the reasons most residential dirt guys push using structural fill everywhere are:
They make more by selling you fill and potentially hauling off the extra material. They make more by charging full labor rate to place and compact when placing granular material requires much less compactive effort and moisture control. They limit their liability for settlement when they don't do the above properly and you garage slab cracks and settles.

"premium fill" I'm guessing is not 100% granular material in your case, rather it's material that has a better R value than the native material there. You need to decide where that is absolutely necessary and where you can get away with native. Good example, use premium fill at the front of the garage where the subgrade will get continually pounded by your vehicles pulling in and out. But around the other 3 sides, how much load will the slab see?? Some tool boxes and workbenches is all. Maybe 1 side where the boat gets parked up close to the wall?

jkski
12-19-2012, 02:36 PM
You are a wealth of knowledge Thrall and it is appreciated.
Our soil composition is mostly clay and we have water issues to speak of. I do plan to slope the grade away from the house naturally and cut in a slight swayle to catch any possible water that could come off the property bordering mine in the event of a huge storm (just never know with today's weather patterns). The waterproofing we went with has a 30 year warranty, now granted if an issue were to arise I am certain they would find every reason imaginable to deny the claim.

In terms of the garage fill, the clay would work great if I could get in there to compact it in levels but the risk of blowing out the walls is too great and the majority of the fill will be needed against the walls. I would try and fill the center area with clay and tamp it but by the time I do that I might as well spend the money on a little extra fill. We are looking at recycled vs. sand to see what would work better in terms of both time and money. With the sand I can have it slung in while the excavator supports the outside of the walls whereas with the recycled I have to have the excavator pick it and drop it inside then fill the outside and back and forth.....in other words what I may save on material I may spend in operator time, negating any savings.

jkski
12-23-2012, 03:30 PM
It's been aabout a week and we have not had any real changes as the weather moved in and the holidays approach. So, I took a couple big picture views of the land and home placement, so here you go.

Next up will be to move some dirt and backfill a little so that the framers can get in there to start working.

Happy Holidays to everyone.

jkski
12-30-2012, 09:20 AM
Well, the framers are set to begin on the 2nd despite the fact that we have not had a break in the weather to better prep the site. So, I plowed the drive yesterday and as you will see below, part of the drive won the battle! It was a bit of a wild ride as I slid off of the drive extension leading to the garage while hoping not to hit the foundation.......needless to say I will be shoveling this area in the future until I get the drive built up and stable!
OH, and when you are this far in, a 3/4 ton truck will not pull you out, it took a large JD farm tractor which pulled me like I was a toy...thank god for the local farmer!

JohnnyB
12-30-2012, 09:45 AM
Well, the framers are set to begin on the 2nd despite the fact that we have not had a break in the weather to better prep the site. So, I plowed the drive yesterday and as you will see below, part of the drive won the battle! It was a bit of a wild ride as I slid off of the drive extension leading to the garage while hoping not to hit the foundation.......needless to say I will be shoveling this area in the future until I get the drive built up and stable!
OH, and when you are this far in, a 3/4 ton truck will not pull you out, it took a large JD farm tractor which pulled me like I was a toy...thank god for the local farmer!

Fyi...i have 800 feet of gravel drive and tack welded a slotted 2" schd 80 around my blade so I can avoid digging up gravel..skims over the top and no spring raking :D

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bbymgr
12-30-2012, 10:54 AM
Stuck or not.....the truck still looks good with the MC decal in the back window.:D

Double D
12-30-2012, 11:27 AM
Well, the framers are set to begin on the 2nd despite the fact that we have not had a break in the weather to better prep the site. So, I plowed the drive yesterday and as you will see below, part of the drive won the battle! It was a bit of a wild ride as I slid off of the drive extension leading to the garage while hoping not to hit the foundation.......needless to say I will be shoveling this area in the future until I get the drive built up and stable!
OH, and when you are this far in, a 3/4 ton truck will not pull you out, it took a large JD farm tractor which pulled me like I was a toy...thank god for the local farmer!

And I thought you was a professional ....... :)


Sent from my wife's old iPad using Tapatalk....

zsqure
12-30-2012, 08:27 PM
Fyi...i have 800 feet of gravel drive and tack welded a slotted 2" schd 80 around my blade so I can avoid digging up gravel..skims over the top and no spring raking :D

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Don't know how this will work with your trip edge plow, but I ran a 2" urethane edge on my Boss V and it floated over the gravel in the lots we plowed. It is like butter when you plow and doesn't bang you up all night long.

jkski
12-31-2012, 06:50 AM
Fyi...i have 800 feet of gravel drive and tack welded a slotted 2" schd 80 around my blade so I can avoid digging up gravel..skims over the top and no spring raking :D

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I had read about guys doing this and really never had a need before now but will be doing this soon. I planned to create slit the schedule 80 enough to slide over the cutting edge and then attach some nuts to it so that I can thread a bolt in against the cutting edge to hold it in place and make it easily removable once I am done with my drive.
We will see how it works!

jkski
12-31-2012, 06:51 AM
And I thought you was a professional ....... :)


Sent from my wife's old iPad using Tapatalk....

I am a complete professional....when I get stuck it takes a big boy toy to get me out, no going half-way here, plus I do my own stunts! Josh was with me when this happened and enjoyed the ride but I think her loved it even more seeing the big tractor pull us out!

byronic
01-01-2013, 03:46 PM
I had read about guys doing this and really never had a need before now but will be doing this soon. I planned to create slit the schedule 80 enough to slide over the cutting edge and then attach some nuts to it so that I can thread a bolt in against the cutting edge to hold it in place and make it easily removable once I am done with my drive.
We will see how it works!

I just welded a tab on the end of the slotted pipe and thru bolt it. I put it on five years ago and it works so well I havn't taken it off.

jkski
01-01-2013, 04:32 PM
Thanks for the pic, that is exactly what I was thinking although I will have to do a little additional engineering due to the V plow configuration choices. I was thinking of making 2 seperate pieces and welding a nut on the the face of the end of each piece so I could simply tighten a bolt against the cutting edge and allow the pressure of that to hold it in place. I will take a pic after I do it, just need to buy the pipe first.
Thanks again for the pic.

jkski
01-01-2013, 04:34 PM
Byronic..I see your sig says Grand Marias, we sled up that way out of Newberry a couple of times a year and eat at the brew pub there facing the water. How are the trail conditions us there?

byronic
01-01-2013, 09:06 PM
Byronic..I see your sig says Grand Marias, we sled up that way out of Newberry a couple of times a year and eat at the brew pub there facing the water. How are the trail conditions us there?

A little thin especialy in wind blown areas and corners. More snow forecast every day. Have only had one good storm so far. As you face the water my place is the big white boathouse on the left, next to twp. marina. You can see it in pic. from last Holloween.Probably looks a little different to you without snow.

JohnnyB
01-01-2013, 09:40 PM
Have eaten in that place many times.....headed to munising weekend after next to sled for four days. Typically make the run to Grand Marais on Friday or Monday. Used to stay in Chatham until 3 or 4 years ago...been renting cabins from Schram's since.....staying down by the Buckhorn this year. Been sledding up there for 15 years...great place!!

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byronic
01-01-2013, 10:18 PM
Have eaten in that place many times.....headed to munising weekend after next to sled for four days. Typically make the run to Grand Marais on Friday or Monday. Used to stay in Chatham until 3 or 4 years ago...been renting cabins from Schram's since.....staying down by the Buckhorn this year. Been sledding up there for 15 years...great place!!

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I hope it snows everyday for you. Stop up next summer and we'll go for a pull.

jkski
01-02-2013, 08:38 AM
A little thin especialy in wind blown areas and corners. More snow forecast every day. Have only had one good storm so far. As you face the water my place is the big white boathouse on the left, next to twp. marina. You can see it in pic. from last Holloween.Probably looks a little different to you without snow.

That looks familiar but like you said, a lot different without the snow. Typically we eat at the pub, then fuel up across the street before heading off to Paradise or back towards Newberry.
That is a beautiful area and we are hoping to be up there in late January/early February.

jkski
01-02-2013, 08:39 AM
Have eaten in that place many times.....headed to munising weekend after next to sled for four days. Typically make the run to Grand Marais on Friday or Monday. Used to stay in Chatham until 3 or 4 years ago...been renting cabins from Schram's since.....staying down by the Buckhorn this year. Been sledding up there for 15 years...great place!!

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The Buckhorn...the one in Trout Lake or a different one. We stayed there a few years ago and had some good riding from there up to The Soo.
Have fun.

jkski
01-02-2013, 08:41 AM
OK....Construction Update: After all of my misadventures in plowing my own drive, I returned to the scene yesterday to clear the path for the framers to begin today. So, I should have some new pics late today or tomorrow. They are saying that the shell will be up in roughly 2 weeks and the weather certainly looks to be cooperating, so we will see.

JohnE
01-02-2013, 12:26 PM
OK....Construction Update: After all of my misadventures in plowing my own drive, I returned to the scene yesterday to clear the path for the framers to begin today. So, I should have some new pics late today or tomorrow. They are saying that the shell will be up in roughly 2 weeks and the weather certainly looks to be cooperating, so we will see.

If the weather holds out you will be in great shape. My framers worked 6 days of the 16 calendar days since they started due to rain/ mud/ holiday/ weekend/ rain/ snow/ holiday. If the weather holds out you will be golden.

jkski
01-03-2013, 04:14 PM
Well, the Amish framers arrived prompt;y at 7am to begin work and would be a lot farther along if the truck delivering the steel beams hadn't slid off the drive about 1000' from the homesite. Had to bring in wrecker to get him squared away but eventually he made it back to the site and unloaded. They got moving along and I would say that before the end of today they will likely have all of the I-Joists set in place and flooring will go on tomorrow.
They plan to be done by the end of next week with the roofers scheduled for 1 week from next Monday.

The Amish are incredible workers and their work ethic is to be admired!

Double D
01-03-2013, 04:23 PM
Very cool!

JohnnyB
01-04-2013, 06:42 AM
What is causing all the slide offs on your drive? Pitch, width, instability, ice, bad luck? Maybe some driveway markers and some salt would help these guys out? Or warning signs or?? Might be an inexpensive fix and might not be good to develop this reputation of your job site??

Keep the pics coming...getting exciting!

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jkski
01-04-2013, 10:11 AM
Good questions and keep in mind, I am one of the victims of the slide-off so!
The biggest issue is that the trucks are having to back all the way in from the road as there is no place for them to turn around without getting stuck, so backing in 1500' with twists and turns is no easy task. Ice really is not the problem so much as the guys not knowing the drive and/or trying to make a turn too quick. The steel truck went off the drive at the first turn...not really sure how as I had a bank of snow piled up there from plowing the 800' straightaway and I put it there for this very reason. The turn is wide enough for a dump truck and large equipment trailer to easily get thru and the drive is plenty wide and marked well. The majority of the trucks have come in and out without issue and with the snowbanks built up now from plowing it privides a nice runway. I really think it is just one of those things where if they walked the drive prior to trying to back-in they would be OK....or if we could make a turn-around area obviously it would be much better (working on that one this weekend).
We are getting a warm-up the next week so that will either make things better or worse. The next big challenge will be the truss delivery truck on Tuesday.....I think I will have a wrecker on standby!

JohnnyB
01-04-2013, 04:37 PM
Is it cold enough that if you plowed a turnaround that it would freeze enough to drive on.....snow is an insulator but if you take it off, you might get enough freeze/frost to support the trucks? Gotta be some benefit to building now :D

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JohnnyB
01-04-2013, 04:39 PM
Just did this last night for a parking lot fir a party I am having tomorrow. A bit soft when I plowed it last night but hard as a rock now.

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ski_king
01-04-2013, 04:43 PM
It is looking good!

Do you have Merlin from the Amish Mofia working for you?

JohnE
01-04-2013, 05:51 PM
Well, the Amish framers arrived prompt;y at 7am to begin work and would be a lot farther along if the truck delivering the steel beams hadn't slid off the drive about 1000' from the homesite. Had to bring in wrecker to get him squared away but eventually he made it back to the site and unloaded. They got moving along and I would say that before the end of today they will likely have all of the I-Joists set in place and flooring will go on tomorrow.
They plan to be done by the end of next week with the roofers scheduled for 1 week from next Monday.

The Amish are incredible workers and their work ethic is to be admired!

If it is ready for roofing on 1/14, that is impressive. Building this time of year is a real b!tch, huh. Just keep in mind that the trade-off is you will be in by ski season.

Ski-me
01-04-2013, 06:04 PM
Keep it rolling man! My wife and I just decided that we will finish up the house we are currently building too. It's just cost us so much to this point, we had a hard time justifying......

We are further along than you but have learned a lot! Sheetrock is our next step. Keep posting as it's giving me some new motivation to see someone else progressing.

JohnE
01-04-2013, 06:06 PM
Keep it rolling man! My wife and I just decided that we will finish up the house we are currently building too. It's just cost us so much to this point, we had a hard time justifying......

We are further along than you but have learned a lot! Sheetrock is our next step. Keep posting as it's giving me some new motivation to see someone else progressing.

Do you have a thread on this project?

jkski
01-04-2013, 07:27 PM
Just did this last night for a parking lot fir a party I am having tomorrow. A bit soft when I plowed it last night but hard as a rock now.

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I wish I could do that but the ground is way to soft as we really have not had a good freeze. While it may firm up enough for a 3/4 ton truck to roll over it, the problem comes when the 80+ ton dumps and various delivery trucks roll in. With a warm-up coming in next week, we are going to finally move the dirt around and try to shore up the perm drive!

jkski
01-04-2013, 07:31 PM
Well, they had a small crew there today and made major strides. They plan to have 2 framing crews there starting Monday and with the looks of things I have to think they will hit the target of being done by the end of next week. The garage walls are up, floor is down and most of the first floor walls are already built, just waiting to be stood up and knocked-in on Monday.
This weekend will be a major clean-up weekend of all the scrap's, etc., but I am looking forward to it!

Double D
01-04-2013, 11:59 PM
Well, they had a small crew there today and made major strides. They plan to have 2 framing crews there starting Monday and with the looks of things I have to think they will hit the target of being done by the end of next week. The garage walls are up, floor is down and most of the first floor walls are already built, just waiting to be stood up and knocked-in on Monday.
This weekend will be a major clean-up weekend of all the scrap's, etc., but I am looking forward to it!

Looking good sir. Are you going to Tyvec and Insulate the garage as well?? I would and did in my house and thank god. I planned to heat it so I had it fully insulated.

zsqure
01-05-2013, 08:05 AM
Looking good sir. Are you going to Tyvec and Insulate the garage as well?? I would and did in my house and thank god. I planned to heat it so I had it fully insulated.

Yes, what DD said. Don't save the 500 bucks and skip the garage. Mine is insulated and stays 45-50 degrees in the winter (as long as the kids don't leave the door open). A good investment for sure until you get the pole barn built out back.

JohnnyB
01-05-2013, 08:20 AM
Also, put at minimum poly moisture barrier under the garage floor.....the 1 thing I forgot before all the flatwork got done :mad:. With the basement as living space go poly and 1" foam board....I see you did foam board on the outside walls. That plus the under floor foam board plus a sub slab ventilator (radon system sucking air out the drain tile) will make your basement warm and dry.

Keep the pics coming or at least keep taking em and post when you are done....I got so busy when I started all the DIY sub work on mine that my posts stopped at framing and the next it was almost done :D

What are you doing for htg and cooling?

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JohnnyB
01-05-2013, 08:21 AM
Btw....I absolutely love your property!!

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JohnnyB
01-05-2013, 02:42 PM
Ok.....one other simple lesson learned....

Garage floor sawcut joints not troweled. Sawcut, you can lay a bead of concrete calk in and they don't fill up w dirt. Also, if you use casters to move your plow around, they won't hang up in the trowled joints like mine do :mad:

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Ski-me
01-06-2013, 11:14 AM
Do you have a thread on this project?

No, no build thread as this is a "marathon" build!! :(

Every time we start something it just keeps getting more expensive. Just has a $20k sheetrock/texture bid 2 months ago. Called him up a few days ago and apparently sheetrock prices have gone up so need to add another $1100 to the bid. Things like this happen all the time!

It will be a nice house but just expensive!

JimN
01-06-2013, 12:42 PM
Ok.....one other simple lesson learned....

Garage floor sawcut joints not troweled. Sawcut, you can lay a bead of concrete calk in and they don't fill up w dirt. Also, if you use casters to move your plow around, they won't hang up in the trowled joints like mine do :mad:

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I wish I had been there for this part but it's not that hard to caulk, anyway. It sure takes more tubes of it, though- urethane isn't cheap.

JohnnyB
01-06-2013, 06:59 PM
I wish I had been there for this part but it's not that hard to caulk, anyway. It sure takes more tubes of it, though- urethane isn't cheap.

Yeah, there was some swearing going on as the whole thing slid off of one of the casters....

Actually thinking of cleaning all the joints and then mixing some polymer modified mortar and filling 'em with that....the joints are huge.

JimN
01-06-2013, 07:48 PM
Yeah, there was some swearing going on as the whole thing slid off of one of the casters....

Actually thinking of cleaning all the joints and then mixing some polymer modified mortar and filling 'em with that....the joints are huge.

I used to have serious problems in the old garage with my creeper- the kind with the stupid disc wheels that catch in any little crack. I put rubber wheels on it after it pissed me off enough. The new garage has troweled joints, but they're not nearly the problem the old floor was. Now that I have heat out there, it's like the garden spot of the universe. I had to replace a shock on my van and I darn near broke a sweat!

jkski
01-07-2013, 10:38 AM
Thanks for the ideas guys, keep them coming.
I do plan to insulate the garage and have a heater in there as well so that it always remains nice and toasty. Combining that with the large floor drain gives me no excuse ever for a dirty vehicle in the winter months!

The HVAC will be York 95% efficient with a 13 sear 4 ton AC unit. Not yet sure what I am putting in the garage, guess I will wait and see what the budget allows for when the project nears completion.

Here are a couple of pics of my site clean-up crew!

JimN
01-07-2013, 10:43 AM
Thanks for the ideas guys, keep them coming.
I do plan to insulate the garage and have a heater in there as well so that it always remains nice and toasty. Combining that with the large floor drain gives me no excuse ever for a dirty vehicle in the winter months!

The HVAC will be York 95% efficient with a 13 sear 4 ton AC unit. Not yet sure what I am putting in the garage, guess I will wait and see what the budget allows for when the project nears completion.

Here are a couple of pics of my site clean-up crew!

For the garage- Modine or Reznor. I call mine 'Trent'. I guess the Big Dog are OK, too.

76S&S
01-07-2013, 02:23 PM
Just a thought for the garage heat.

Why not just heat the slab with a small water heater, circulation pump and tubing run throughout the floor.

This is something I've always wanted to try, but haven't had the opportunity.

JohnnyB
01-07-2013, 07:03 PM
Love the pics of your cleanup crew. Here's a pic of my girls laying "under their bedrooms" and a couple of others I had handy on my laptop.

RE your HVAC....I believe there is still a 30% tax credit for the cost of installing geothermal...I thought it ran 'til 2015??? Anyway, the return on investment was not there originally but the return with a 30% tax credit was 2 year break even on savings. Also read up on what can be included...ductwork, field, labor, etc as it has changed a bit I think....

SPSinclair 190
01-07-2013, 07:47 PM
JohnnyB Im with you on geothermal we went with it 4 years ago and love it what a savings !!! Also think about spray foam insulation on entire house and garage will save tons on heating and cooling !!!!

JimN
01-07-2013, 08:22 PM
I have been reading that in the SW states, some companies are leasing the system, so there's really no out of pocket expense for the user and that makes it more attractive, especially if it's capable of storing a lot of Ah reserve. I have to think that a combination geo/solar system in AZ would be about as good as it gets. Add a cistern to catch rainwater and it could be pretty cheap to run a home out there.

jkski
01-07-2013, 08:49 PM
Great pic, and certainly one to remember!
I thought about the geothermal route but since I have a producing gas well on the property and as such receive free gas, my decision was fairly easy. All total I will have less than $600 in cost to connect to the well and according to the well data it will likely be a viable source for long after I am gone. So, while I am certainly not looking to be an energy/resource hog I am not taking my conservation level to the highest point, rather sticking it in the middle of the road and putting the money (what little is left) toward other upgrades. If all else fails I have an endless supply of free firewood (so long as the chainsaw works and my back is in good shape) and would go to a backup source of an outdoor wood furnace.

JohnnyB
01-07-2013, 09:01 PM
Great pic, and certainly one to remember!
I thought about the geothermal route but since I have a producing gas well on the property and as such receive free gas, my decision was fairly easy. All total I will have less than $600 in cost to connect to the well and according to the well data it will likely be a viable source for long after I am gone. So, while I am certainly not looking to be an energy/resource hog I am not taking my conservation level to the highest point, rather sticking it in the middle of the road and putting the money (what little is left) toward other upgrades. If all else fails I have an endless supply of free firewood (so long as the chainsaw works and my back is in good shape) and would go to a backup source of an outdoor wood furnace.

Yup, if my gas was free, I would do the same thing....that's a no-brainer

JohnnyB
01-07-2013, 09:07 PM
JohnnyB Im with you on geothermal we went with it 4 years ago and love it what a savings !!! Also think about spray foam insulation on entire house and garage will save tons on heating and cooling !!!!

I did attic air seal (spray foam on all ceiling electrical penetrations and across all top plates) and used gasketed phenolic electrical boxes on all walls (+$150 over regular) and did blow in blanket walls (R-27 I think) and R-60 blown in ceiling....was a bit more cost effective than spray foam and very similar net result...remember foam is R-5/inch. Minimizing Air infiltration is the biggest bang for the buck in home energy performance.

Ski-me
01-08-2013, 10:34 AM
Is that gas treated with mercaptan so you have an odor if you get a leak? That's a sweet deal for sure!

We did not do any spray foam but we did use batten, blown in insulation. Basically they put up a net between the studs and then stuffed the cavity. You get a denser pack and ultimately, higher R-Value rating. I must say, our house is VERY quiet and feels like the heat is staying in (except for the open air ceiling)! Sheetrock will fix that.

Also, we insulated between all of the interior walls. Really makes the house feel more solid.

jkski
01-08-2013, 08:27 PM
I have said it before I know, but the Amish amaze me! Here are a few pics taken from today's progress and as you can see, it is really taking shape nicely. The trusses go on tomorrow and I would imagine they will get it decked as well and the front wall should go on. The scaffolding will be set-up for the front wall build and then they have to stick frame the trusses for the peak area and that will pretty much conclude things for them. With the roofers set to start on Monday I think the next 2 days will move along at an even more rapid pace.
The excavator and dozer arrive on Thursday morning followed by 160 ton of sand to be slung into the garage, another 40 ton of 57 wash for the footer drains and just for fun I'm gonna round it all off with another 60 ton of limestone 1's and 2's to complete the new drive elevation to the garage........YEP, it's gonna be another costly day of material that will get burried!

Man, I could have had a tower on my boat if not for all this and probably be one step closer to thinking about the thought of thinking about retiring someday in the distant future!

thatsmrmastercraft
01-08-2013, 09:02 PM
Nice progress.:popcorn:

hondaprlud
01-08-2013, 09:23 PM
Looking good.

JohnE
01-08-2013, 09:24 PM
Yes progressing nicely

Double D
01-08-2013, 09:51 PM
Coming along nicely! Great view out the front window!

JohnnyB
01-08-2013, 10:03 PM
Two story great room w balcony in front?

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jkski
01-09-2013, 07:41 AM
Two story great room w balcony in front?

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Yes, the greatroom is 2 story with a loft area on the rear-center portion of the house which has 2 bedrooms, 1 bath and a general "loft" area overlooking the greatroom. When all is said and done I will build a deck all the way around the house 6' wide from the front door over to the door located to the right of the greatroom where it will open up to a larger, 24'x24' deck that also comes off of the master bedroom. (This will be my summer project amongst a lot of other things!)

jkski
01-09-2013, 11:04 AM
Just got these pictures from my builder as the trusses are being set and mostly up. At this rate I would have to say the house will get decked today and the front wall will start taking shape.
More to come later when I get to the site!

Ski-me
01-09-2013, 11:23 AM
It's amazing how fast those things go up! All pretty much in a day.....:cool:

Are you going to wire the house for speaker system?

JimN
01-09-2013, 11:25 AM
Just got these pictures from my builder as the trusses are being set and mostly up. At this rate I would have to say the house will get decked today and the front wall will start taking shape.
More to come later when I get to the site!

You need one of these-
http://www.cseed.tv/design/movie.html

jkski
01-09-2013, 11:47 AM
No plans to wire for speaker system as we just don't see a need for it. I do plan to run conduit to each room from the basement so that I have an easy run for watever may som about in the future and simply put a blank on it.

Millertime
01-09-2013, 12:05 PM
House is looking great. That's a good idea with the conduit. I wired our house for speakers and it was the best thing I did. We use it daily, in the kitchen, bathroom and on the deck when I'm out bar-b-quein'.

pmkkdx
01-09-2013, 12:09 PM
You need one of these-
http://www.cseed.tv/design/movie.html

wow is about all I can say to that ... wonder what the price tag would be?

Ski-me
01-09-2013, 12:13 PM
No plans to wire for speaker system as we just don't see a need for it. I do plan to run conduit to each room from the basement so that I have an easy run for watever may som about in the future and simply put a blank on it.

I got 2 rolls of this 14/2 and 2 rolls of 14/4. Everything is run to the basement in one spot.

http://www.amazon.com/Monster-14-Gauge-2-Conductor-In-Wall-Speaker/dp/B00009V3RP/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1357747816&sr=8-5&keywords=monster+cable+speaker+wire

http://www.amazon.com/Monster-14-Gauge-4-Conductor-Speaker-500-Foot/dp/B00013BLI6/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1357747965&sr=1-2&keywords=monster+cable+speaker+wire+14-4

I also ran CAT 6a wire and RG6 wire......

http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-43065-Shield-Coaxial/dp/B0009FUXUS/ref=sr_1_24?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1357748072&sr=1-24&keywords=rg6+coaxial+cable+quad+shield

http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-1000ft-Shielded-In-Wall/dp/B004KPGPXW/ref=pd_sim_e_4

Double D
01-09-2013, 12:24 PM
I got 2 rolls of this 14/2 and 2 rolls of 14/4. Everything is run to the basement in one spot.

http://www.amazon.com/Monster-14-Gauge-2-Conductor-In-Wall-Speaker/dp/B00009V3RP/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1357747816&sr=8-5&keywords=monster+cable+speaker+wire

http://www.amazon.com/Monster-14-Gauge-4-Conductor-Speaker-500-Foot/dp/B00013BLI6/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1357747965&sr=1-2&keywords=monster+cable+speaker+wire+14-4

I also ran CAT 6a wire and RG6 wire......

http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-43065-Shield-Coaxial/dp/B0009FUXUS/ref=sr_1_24?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1357748072&sr=1-24&keywords=rg6+coaxial+cable+quad+shield

http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-1000ft-Shielded-In-Wall/dp/B004KPGPXW/ref=pd_sim_e_4


Agreed!! Wire the heck out of it: Phone, Cable, Network, Speaker, etc!! I wired a phone in every bathroom... :)

milkmania
01-09-2013, 12:35 PM
Agreed!! Wire the heck out of it: Phone, Cable, Network, Speaker, etc!! I wired a phone in every bathroom... :)

I got a phone & internet in every bathroom toohttp://68.178.167.89/smf/Smileys/default/rockbanana.gif


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRjdjoDP48RPTXsRTR53NGLOW45cAwa0 oJKyIoNGDNFiUqjDPegGg

GT500 MC
01-09-2013, 12:40 PM
I got a phone & internet in every bathroom too

I like that.

I will say my house is wired everywhere for most everything. However, the bathroom is off-limits for being connected. :o

milkmania
01-09-2013, 12:44 PM
wow is about all I can say to that ... wonder what the price tag would be?

well, it's one of those things....if ya gotta ask, then it's too much!!!!http://68.178.167.89/smf/Smileys/default/coffee26at.gif


Quick stats:
- 201-inch backlit LED screen
- 7 large LED screens
- Weighs 1.4 tonnes
- 500 times the performace of a standard TV set
- Price: US$687,775
- 50 units already pre-ordered

Ski-me
01-09-2013, 12:50 PM
well, it's one of those things....if ya gotta ask, then it's too much!!!!http://68.178.167.89/smf/Smileys/default/coffee26at.gif


Quick stats:
- 201-inch backlit LED screen
- 7 large LED screens
- Weighs 1.4 tonnes
- 500 times the performace of a standard TV set
- Price: US$687,775
- 50 units already pre-ordered

Whoa!!

The Porsche in the movie is cheaper than the TV :rolleyes:

Ski-me
01-09-2013, 12:53 PM
I have this lift going into our family room. We dug out a pit and will have a false "blanket cabinet" on top. So the TV will fit into the pit and then raise up when needed.

Tried to make the family room less of an "Obvious TV room".....

http://www.tvlift.com/high-rise-swivel-tv-lift.html

jkski
01-09-2013, 01:33 PM
It may be short-sighted but with everything going wireless and no sign of it going backwards, I am not running cable TV or phone service back to the house and have no plans to wire the house for it. My TV will be Dish Network or Direct TV, so obviouslu I will wire accordingly for that and my internet service will be a wireless piggybacked off of my sister-in-laws house. The cost to run cable back to my house was roughly $4k and since my sister-in-law already has it and a friend already has the equipment needed to get a strong signal at my home site, well...we are going to piggyback it. As for phone, I never use nor do I ever answer my home phone, to me it is a complete waste as my cellphone is always with me, so we are going to be a cellphone only house!

Double D
01-09-2013, 01:39 PM
It may be short-sighted but with everything going wireless and no sign of it going backwards, I am not running cable TV or phone service back to the house and have no plans to wire the house for it. My TV will be Dish Network or Direct TV, so obviouslu I will wire accordingly for that and my internet service will be a wireless piggybacked off of my sister-in-laws house. The cost to run cable back to my house was roughly $4k and since my sister-in-law already has it and a friend already has the equipment needed to get a strong signal at my home site, well...we are going to piggyback it. As for phone, I never use nor do I ever answer my home phone, to me it is a complete waste as my cellphone is always with me, so we are going to be a cellphone only house!

Sounds like you got it all figured. My only concern would be re-sale, god forbid. May hurt the value to not have the stuff just roughed in... Just Sayin... :rolleyes:

JimN
01-09-2013, 01:40 PM
Since it has a basement, I would install flexible conduit, called 'Smurf Tube' because the original small-diameter stuff is blue. Low voltage flex conduit is orange but Home Depot doesn't carry the larger diameters. Both are made by Carlon and the 2" is great for TV and large bundles of separate wires that can't be installed in a straight line. The number of 90 degree bends should be kept to a minimum- some standards organizations recommend a max of 2. The 2" comes with a pulling cord, so it can be installed and attaching the cabling at a later time.

If you do this, take photos and video with some kind of measuring tape or yard stick in the photo, so you know where to open the walls or ceilings. installing just the conduit isn't terribly expensive and allows for cabling standards to change after the house is built. Installing the cable and not using it doesn't make sense but this makes life much easier if you decide to wire everything later.

It's also a good idea to install some kind of large conduit from a basement to the attic- that way, if you need an antenna or Wireless Access Point, you don't have to search for a path. Some municipalities require a closed junction box at each end, so it's a good idea to do that immediately. The gray plastic is OK, as long as it isn't in a return air space. PVC isn't allowed there. In the event of a fire, it's not the fire or heat that usually kills, it's the fumes and smoke.

JimN
01-09-2013, 01:47 PM
It may be short-sighted but with everything going wireless and no sign of it going backwards, I am not running cable TV or phone service back to the house and have no plans to wire the house for it. My TV will be Dish Network or Direct TV, so obviouslu I will wire accordingly for that and my internet service will be a wireless piggybacked off of my sister-in-laws house. The cost to run cable back to my house was roughly $4k and since my sister-in-law already has it and a friend already has the equipment needed to get a strong signal at my home site, well...we are going to piggyback it. As for phone, I never use nor do I ever answer my home phone, to me it is a complete waste as my cellphone is always with me, so we are going to be a cellphone only house!

Wireless is great but when EVERYTHING is wireless, conflicts arise and personally, I feel that being immersed in a constant barrage of RF isn't a good thing. I would use wireless phones, though. Much more convenient than wired.

Re: your piggy-backed IP- it's still best to use hard-wired as much as possible. WiFi works great until it doesn't and if you don't allow for any hard-wiring, you can run into all kinds of unexpected problems. Hard-wired is faster and more fault-tolerant. This is a good example of using the Smurf Tube- put it in and if you have range or speed issues, you can hard-wire it. Media streaming has a big effect on speed and distance is even worse. Combine them and what should be 5Mb/sec-20Mb/sec can be dragged down to less than 1Mb/sec- not going to work for media, especially if more than one TV is using it at the same time.

Make sure all satellite feeds are grounded per NEC- IIRC, it's Article 25 and it matters. Also, copper-clad coax is NOT going to work, so make sure whatever goes in is solid copper center conductor. If it will be suspended across any great distances, make sure to use coax with a solid wire for support or install a separate support wire. You don't need quad shield unless the cable will be in a location where RF interference is a problem. Likewise, expensive speaker cable isn't necessary, especially in areas that aren't intended for main listening. In fact, when many speakers are installed in a large job, they're not even stereo- it's not needed and having one speaker playing one channel in one place with another playing the other channel a good distance away is really annoying. For this reason, either dual voice coil or mono speakers are used. Still not a bad idea to run 4 conductor cable, though. That way, if someone damages a wire during drywall installation, you still have three to use for the two channels and that does work most of the time since stereo amplifiers use chassis ground (common) for the speaker negatives unless it's dual mono in separate chassis or a stereo tube amp.

bobx1
01-09-2013, 01:48 PM
1 - Fantastic thread - enjoy watching the progress.
2 - Awesome looking building site and structure.
3 - but.....what is all that white stuff on the ground and mounded around your property?

zsqure
01-09-2013, 02:04 PM
3 - but.....what is all that white stuff on the ground and mounded around your property?

Sta-Puff Marshmallow man was through here. He even turned down the heat.

JohnnyB
01-09-2013, 02:19 PM
Yes, the greatroom is 2 story with a loft area on the rear-center portion of the house which has 2 bedrooms, 1 bath and a general "loft" area overlooking the greatroom. When all is said and done I will build a deck all the way around the house 6' wide from the front door over to the door located to the right of the greatroom where it will open up to a larger, 24'x24' deck that also comes off of the master bedroom. (This will be my summer project amongst a lot of other things!)

Built a very similar plan 12 years ago. Make sure you have a good quality ceiling fan in the great room as all the heat gets lost to the ceiling.

Wood burning fireplace??? Go EPA rated with a high btu rating....I can throw an arm load of wood in mine and raise the temp on the main floor +10deg and burn it for 6 hours...don't clean it out but once or twice a year. Very clean burning...I am very happy with it. Look for ones with a non-catalyst overfire as they are less maintenance.

93Prostar190
01-09-2013, 02:21 PM
Wow what a great project, I keep loving the periodic updates ... Looks like Josh is a heck of a foreman! Keep it it rolling!

JohnnyB
01-09-2013, 02:24 PM
No plans to wire for speaker system as we just don't see a need for it. I do plan to run conduit to each room from the basement so that I have an easy run for watever may som about in the future and simply put a blank on it.

Great idea on the conduit as others have said. I did that too. Spend the few $$ to pre-wire for in-wall and in-ceiling speakers. Best thing I did in the last house...put the speakers and distribution in a couple years later and used them constantly. When I built the current one, wasn't even a consideration to not do it. DIY cost is reasonable. If you are interested, PM me and I can give you the take off list of speakers, volume controls, distribution boxes, etc I used.

Run extra coax and data everywhere too.

Also, if you're a christmas light guy, outlets under the soffits homerunning to a switch in your entry closet is a good thing to do :D

BallBushing
01-09-2013, 09:15 PM
Ditto with Jim, when everything is wireless conflicts arise. Streaming Netflix wireless on a TV combined with a wireless x-box, add 4 wireless PC's & 4 wireless phones. Things start to slow down & disconnect. Had to hard wire the X -box, TV may be next.

Double D
01-09-2013, 09:19 PM
Great idea on the conduit as others have said. I did that too. Spend the few $$ to pre-wire for in-wall and in-ceiling speakers. Best thing I did in the last house...put the speakers and distribution in a couple years later and used them constantly. When I built the current one, wasn't even a consideration to not do it. DIY cost is reasonable. If you are interested, PM me and I can give you the take off list of speakers, volume controls, distribution boxes, etc I used.

Run extra coax and data everywhere too.

Also, if you're a christmas light guy, outlets under the soffits homerunning to a switch in your entry closet is a good thing to do :D

Darn good suggestion on the soffit plugs. Wish I had done that! However, is anyone going to able to see it from the road JKSKI?

JohnnyB
01-09-2013, 09:49 PM
Darn good suggestion on the soffit plugs. Wish I had done that! However, is anyone going to able to see it from the road JKSKI?

If you put up enough lights...

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JohnnyB
01-09-2013, 09:51 PM
It may be short-sighted but with everything going wireless and no sign of it going backwards, I am not running cable TV or phone service back to the house and have no plans to wire the house for it. My TV will be Dish Network or Direct TV, so obviouslu I will wire accordingly for that and my internet service will be a wireless piggybacked off of my sister-in-laws house. The cost to run cable back to my house was roughly $4k and since my sister-in-law already has it and a friend already has the equipment needed to get a strong signal at my home site, well...we are going to piggyback it. As for phone, I never use nor do I ever answer my home phone, to me it is a complete waste as my cellphone is always with me, so we are going to be a cellphone only house!

My wired phones in the house run off a cell phone signal that is broadcast into the system

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JohnnyB
01-09-2013, 09:55 PM
Add a sycom lightning arrestor to your breaker panel....

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jkski
01-10-2013, 06:28 AM
Thanks for all of the great suggestions, looks like my list just grew! Never really gave any thought to the various wireless signals causing an issue and/or slowing down speeds so better safe than sorry as it is a heck of a lot easier to run some wires now as opposed to later!

As for the Christmas lights, well given the roof peaks I really do not see lights on the gutters as I would need a JLG to accomplish that and while I certainly like the idea of using a one it is not in the Christmas budget! That being said, I wil have multiple outdoor outlets on the house as I know lights will be out there.....but let's face it, I am not in charge of that, I am just the labor!

Well, off to backfill, should have some good pics later.

JimN
01-10-2013, 09:15 AM
Add a sycom lightning arrestor to your breaker panel....

Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk 2

Definitely a good idea- even if lightning never strikes, the surges and dips can really shorten appliance/device life. If anyone knows someone who replaces appliances and electronics at an inordinate rate and it's because they fail, not because they want better performance, this is probably why. Also, suppression at the location of sensitive electronics (anything with microprocessors) is needed- the surges may be blocked at the panel but when lightning strikes nearby, it can still cause surges inside the building.

JimN
01-10-2013, 09:16 AM
jski- speaking of lightning, are you using lightning rods?

Ski-me
01-10-2013, 10:57 AM
Thanks for all of the great suggestions, looks like my list just grew! Never really gave any thought to the various wireless signals causing an issue and/or slowing down speeds so better safe than sorry as it is a heck of a lot easier to run some wires now as opposed to later!

As for the Christmas lights, well given the roof peaks I really do not see lights on the gutters as I would need a JLG to accomplish that and while I certainly like the idea of using a one it is not in the Christmas budget! That being said, I wil have multiple outdoor outlets on the house as I know lights will be out there.....but let's face it, I am not in charge of that, I am just the labor!

Well, off to backfill, should have some good pics later.

Hope this helps for you. The links I provided were some of the items I installed.

I did about 2000' speaker wire
3000' Cat 6a
2000' of RG6

The Cat 6a vs Cat 6 is a higher capacity wire....but that's about all I know. I do know it can also be used for phone wire. It's just shielded real well.

The RG6 I got should be solid core (like JimN suggested) and also quad shielded.

I ran everything myself and it did take some time and effort. Just get a label maker and label each wire as you go.

If you do run speaker wire, try and keep those from running parallel with one another and also you don't want them parallel with your A/C wire. Just try and keep everything separated if possible. If you do cross, cross at 90 degrees to avoid "cross talk" from wires.

I have a ton of wires but it wasn't too expensive because I did it all myself.

The speaker wires I suggested are also a little thicker than typical installers, and it's also rated for being in walls.

Ski-me
01-10-2013, 10:58 AM
Now, a completely different subject, water.

Are you doing a well and are you going to treat it? That's where I'm at right now and getting pretty confused on my options. Kinetico, traditional, ???

JohnE
01-10-2013, 12:30 PM
Also, if you're a christmas light guy, outlets under the soffits homerunning to a switch in your entry closet is a good thing to do :D


If you are a Christmas Light guy, you may want these. I'm putting them in mine. http://www.sillites.com/

thatsmrmastercraft
01-10-2013, 12:34 PM
If you are a Christmas Light guy, you may want these. I'm putting them in mine. http://www.sillites.com/

Very cool lights. I still curse the lights I have.

Also, can't have too many switched outlets, indoor & outdoor for Christmas lights.

JohnnyB
01-10-2013, 02:08 PM
For lightning/surge protector installation, ideally you want to use breaker 1 and breaker 2 in your main panel (tie to each leg of service). Buying a good one allows you to eliminate the surge protectors in your house. Sycom is the only one I know of that will guarentee performance even if not in the 1st two breakers.

I took a lightning strike about a month after completing my house....lightning is high risk in uncompacted soil conditions....took out most of the electronics tied to the 1st 4-5 breakers in the panel and popped all GFCIs in the house. I think it came in on bkr 5 which was the invisible fence....I have a lightning arrestor dedicated to that system now.

JimN
01-10-2013, 02:42 PM
For lightning/surge protector installation, ideally you want to use breaker 1 and breaker 2 in your main panel (tie to each leg of service). Buying a good one allows you to eliminate the surge protectors in your house. Sycom is the only one I know of that will guarentee performance even if not in the 1st two breakers.

I took a lightning strike about a month after completing my house....lightning is high risk in uncompacted soil conditions....took out most of the electronics tied to the 1st 4-5 breakers in the panel and popped all GFCIs in the house. I think it came in on bkr 5 which was the invisible fence....I have a lightning arrestor dedicated to that system now.

What does a "whole house' protector do for surges that were induced by an outside event, like lightning? Nothing at all. That means the power lines outside may not be the source, but the ones inside still need to be kept from causing problems. What about motors and pumps turning on/off? Those spikes can do a lot of damage to microprocessors.

jkski
01-10-2013, 08:47 PM
156 ton of sand, 40 ton of 57 wash and 81 ton of limestone 1's and 2's and we now have a backfilled home, filled up garage and a driveway leading to the garage that can withstand the rest of what our construction throws at it! Most of the rough grading is done just some final touches to put on to insure that everything is sloped away from the foundation but with rain moving in tomorrow it probably will not be a good day to play in the dirt.

It was a long expensive day but I do believe I will sleep good tonight. The framing crew is just about done putting the front wall together with the windows and doors arriving tomorrow, plumber starting on Saturday and roofer scheduled for Monday!

Things are progressing!

blakekrone
01-10-2013, 09:07 PM
Great idea on the conduit as others have said. I did that too. Spend the few $$ to pre-wire for in-wall and in-ceiling speakers. Best thing I did in the last house...put the speakers and distribution in a couple years later and used them constantly. When I built the current one, wasn't even a consideration to not do it. DIY cost is reasonable. If you are interested, PM me and I can give you the take off list of speakers, volume controls, distribution boxes, etc I used.

Run extra coax and data everywhere too.

Also, if you're a christmas light guy, outlets under the soffits homerunning to a switch in your entry closet is a good thing to do :D

I went with a wireless house audio system (Sonos) instead of pre-wiring speakers, if you ever sell you don't get that investment back, that's a "nice to have" but wont' gain you anything.

As for data/phone runs, if you can run smurf tubing (blue EMT) or some other conduit from each box to a utility room so you can run more cables.

I would also look at any rooms that might have wall mounted TV's installed and pre-run conduit between floor boxes and mount locations. Conduit gives you the flexibility to add cables as you go, just run a fish line for now.

park190
01-10-2013, 09:23 PM
Couldn't agree more about the Sonos! We did the same when we built and never regret a thing about it. :)



I went with a wireless house audio system (Sonos) instead of pre-wiring speakers, if you ever sell you don't get that investment back, that's a "nice to have" but wont' gain you anything.

As for data/phone runs, if you can run smurf tubing (blue EMT) or some other conduit from each box to a utility room so you can run more cables.

I would also look at any rooms that might have wall mounted TV's installed and pre-run conduit between floor boxes and mount locations. Conduit gives you the flexibility to add cables as you go, just run a fish line for now.

JimN
01-10-2013, 09:48 PM
156 ton of sand, 40 ton of 57 wash and 81 ton of limestone 1's and 2's and we now have a backfilled home, filled up garage and a driveway leading to the garage that can withstand the rest of what our construction throws at it! Most of the rough grading is done just some final touches to put on to insure that everything is sloped away from the foundation but with rain moving in tomorrow it probably will not be a good day to play in the dirt.

It was a long expensive day but I do believe I will sleep good tonight. The framing crew is just about done putting the front wall together with the windows and doors arriving tomorrow, plumber starting on Saturday and roofer scheduled for Monday!

Things are progressing!

The progress is amazing- around here, that would have taken many weeks, if even that short a time.

zsqure
01-10-2013, 09:52 PM
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=88566&stc=1&d=1357864931
Those stone slinger bodies are worth their weight in gold. Saves lots of time and eliminates sore backs.

blakekrone
01-10-2013, 10:02 PM
Couldn't agree more about the Sonos! We did the same when we built and never regret a thing about it. :)

Yeap, I have a ton of their equipment and alpha/beta test all the new products. If you do want to go with Sonos PM me, I can get you an insane discount for a new customer, can't help existing unfortunately :(

onewheat
01-10-2013, 11:49 PM
Yeap, I have a ton of their equipment and alpha/beta test all the new products. If you do want to go with Sonos PM me, I can get you an insane discount for a new customer, can't help existing unfortunately :(

Is there a subscription or something with Sonos? If you are only buying equipment, what makes you a "new" customer? I had a guy at Best Buy trying to sell me on it, but I really didn't have time to listen to his pitch, but I'm intrigued.

Ski-me
01-11-2013, 12:11 AM
Is there a subscription or something with Sonos? If you are only buying equipment, what makes you a "new" customer? I had a guy at Best Buy trying to sell me on it, but I really didn't have time to listen to his pitch, but I'm intrigued.

I'm still on target with the Sonos too, but I wanted to have hard wires in the ceiling for all the speakers. Everything is hard-wired to the basement where I intend to install the Sonos units. I also ran a few pairs on the outside of the house so we have music on the deck. I did a lot of research with separate keypads, controllers, etc. and Sonos seems to be the best system for us as well. If you do have deals on equipment, I'd be interested too.

blakekrone
01-11-2013, 12:13 AM
Is there a subscription or something with Sonos? If you are only buying equipment, what makes you a "new" customer? I had a guy at Best Buy trying to sell me on it, but I really didn't have time to listen to his pitch, but I'm intrigued.

You need to sign up with an account and register your system to get the updates (free) that come out a few times a year. I can typically get 30% off your first order up to $3500 post discount.

There are no subscription services for Sonos directly, but some of the music services (Rdio, Pandora, Spotify, etc charge).

Don't want to sidetrack so feel free to DM me and we can talk. Sonos is probably by far the best purchase I've made for my home, it also has high wife approval factor as it just works!

blakekrone
01-11-2013, 12:15 AM
I'm still on target with the Sonos too, but I wanted to have hard wires in the ceiling for all the speakers. Everything is hard-wired to the basement where I intend to install the Sonos units. I also ran a few pairs on the outside of the house so we have music on the deck. I did a lot of research with separate keypads, controllers, etc. and Sonos seems to be the best system for us as well. If you do have deals on equipment, I'd be interested too.

DM me Jeff, I can save you a lot on your first order.

The downside to placing all the Sonos systems in one location is you don't get the benefit of their wireless mesh technology which their controllers use, however, lately the better solution for controlling it is via an android or iOS phone/tablet with your standard house wireless.

I've found for bedrooms, kitchens, and bathrooms nothing beats the sound out of an S5. This includes my speakercraft in ceiling speakers I have in my garage and shop. Pair and S5 with the new sub and wow!

JohnnyB
01-11-2013, 01:59 AM
What does a "whole house' protector do for surges that were induced by an outside event, like lightning? Nothing at all. That means the power lines outside may not be the source, but the ones inside still need to be kept from causing problems. What about motors and pumps turning on/off? Those spikes can do a lot of damage to microprocessors.

Jim, don'r,understandyour comment...clarify...

Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk 2

JimN
01-11-2013, 09:11 AM
Jim, don'r,understandyour comment...clarify...

Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk 2

Motors produce voltage spikes when they start and stop, as do relays and some switches. Microprocessors don't do well with these and can fail because of them. HDMI boards in AV receivers, specifically, are very susceptible to failure because of this (and it's a really, really bad design, IMO) and control processors aren't big fans of these spikes, either. Also, when lightning strikes near a building, the bolt can induce currents in the building's wiring- this is the reason lightning suppression cabling is required to be a minimum of 16" from any other electrical wiring- inductive coupling can cause a lot of damage. A whole house suppressor will do nothing for spikes/surges on the house side of the device, so suppressors/protectors are needed at the location of the sensitive equipment. Lighting systems cause all kinds of trouble, too- especially when dimmers are used and they're not the high quality type.

Data/comm, phone, AV/cable/satellite and power lines all experience problems with this, too- a whole-house suppressor at the panel doesn't do anything for surges that come in on phone/cable/satellite cabling when they're not protected and especially if they're not grounded per NEC requirements.

Repeated equipment failures is a red flag for checking into the power quality- it can be as simple as bad connections at the weather-head (lights dimming and clicks/pops when a fridge compressor starts/stops happened at my parents' house until the terminals were replaced- the old ones had dried out and the cable ends were corroded), industrial facilities causing power surges/dips because of their demand and proximity to the house, etc can cause these problems. Cutler-Hammer and other companies make a lot of different devices for removing this kind of problem- it's not the usual AV accessory companies who make the best, even though they act like they solve all of the problems with expensive boxes with pretty lights and fancy metal face plates. I'd rather have something in a plain box if it works.

JimN
01-11-2013, 09:13 AM
You need to sign up with an account and register your system to get the updates (free) that come out a few times a year. I can typically get 30% off your first order up to $3500 post discount.

There are no subscription services for Sonos directly, but some of the music services (Rdio, Pandora, Spotify, etc charge).

Don't want to sidetrack so feel free to DM me and we can talk. Sonos is probably by far the best purchase I've made for my home, it also has high wife approval factor as it just works!

I wasn't aware online sales with stated discount was allowed by Sonos. How does their MAP fit in with your price- are you a dealer?

blakekrone
01-11-2013, 04:15 PM
I wasn't aware online sales with stated discount was allowed by Sonos. How does their MAP fit in with your price- are you a dealer?

Nope not a dealer, I test all of their products. I've brought them quite a few customers so I just put you in touch with one of their PR VPs i know and you get a discount. I don't get anything out of the deal.

jkski
01-13-2013, 05:25 AM
If a picture tells a thousand words then to me, this says it all!

We spent a good bit of time yesterday simply cleaning-up the site. The nice thing about not having all of the windows in at this point is that a backpack blower really does a nice job of cleaning your house....if only it would work that way once it is all done! We also started the plumbing yesterday and got all of the underground in and plan to poke the stacks thru the roof today so that the roofer can seal everything up on Monday. Today we test the underground and then it is on to the first plumbing inspection!

So far so good!

JohnnyB
01-13-2013, 04:36 PM
If a picture tells a thousand words then to me, this says it all!

We spent a good bit of time yesterday simply cleaning-up the site. The nice thing about not having all of the windows in at this point is that a backpack blower really does a nice job of cleaning your house....if only it would work that way once it is all done! We also started the plumbing yesterday and got all of the underground in and plan to poke the stacks thru the roof today so that the roofer can seal everything up on Monday. Today we test the underground and then it is on to the first plumbing inspection!

So far so good!

That is a great picture.....keep 'em coming!!!