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View Full Version : Bye bye Twinkies. Union to blame?


jdl xstar
11-16-2012, 01:45 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-16/twinkie-maker-hostess-to-shut-down-after-strike.html

Not that I ate Hostess cakes much, perhaps once a year, I am still disturbed that a company such as this is going bankrupt. I'm still trying to find out if the union or management is to blame. My kneejerk reaction is to lay blame on the union since it was indeed their walk out that ultimately caused the company's demise but if management had conceded more, then maybe they would still be working. Not sure yet but I would think that those 18k people getting pink slips would rather be working than not just over some better benefits/slight raise, etc.

Anyone out there in a union who can relate to this situation?

Or if you don't want to opine on this subject, at least let us know which hostess cake was your favorite! Me? Twinkie.

jdl xstar
11-16-2012, 01:50 PM
Hostess website statement:

Hostess Brands is Closed.

We are sorry to announce that Hostess Brands, Inc. has been forced by a Bakers Union strike to shut down all operations and sell all company assets. For more information, go to hostessbrands.info. Thank you for all of your loyalty and support over the years.

http://hostessbrands.com/Closing.aspx

ttu
11-16-2012, 01:51 PM
yep!!

if you want to make them at home the tulsa world has recipe!

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/default.aspx/17788

can you say obese!

jdl xstar
11-16-2012, 01:57 PM
Hmmm.. stockpiling twinkies... Their shelf life is probably in the years so this may be a good idea. Or sell on ebay.

mikeg205
11-16-2012, 02:11 PM
Stockpile twinkies, peanut butter, canned tuna and bottled water... :D

bturner2
11-16-2012, 02:26 PM
From what I read the Teamsters settled but the bakery boys didn't. Also read that the Teamsters were not happy with their bakery brothers. Here in Michigan we have a term for this called Union Mentality. At it's worst it's a sense of entitlement that ends up bringing down the ship (think auto unions and all they did for that industry). It also has to do with pushing for more without end and protecting those that should not be protected (everyone here has a story about a drugged out drunk guy getting caught and the union saving his job).

Now that I have all the Union brothers hating me let me state that I truly believe that unions play a very important role and that without them a lot of people would be "owing their soul to the company store". All one need to do is look at the great Henry Ford and see how he handled the work force and the riots that ensued soon after (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Hunger_March) to see why unions can be a good thing. The problem is that there is never an end to demands, no way to quench the thirst for control and power unions wield.

In the end it all ends up being a balancing act. When unions are working correctly employees make a good living with fair benefits and wages. When they're out of balance you get this. A bunch of people out of work because they couldn't see past their own pride.

While I can't remember the last time I had one of their products I will miss the idea of them and will somehow relate this to the whole Obamanation of America. The land of false pride and entitlement.

GoneBoatN
11-16-2012, 02:30 PM
Here's what I know of Unions. I grew up in Pittsburgh PA - truely a "Steel town" in its hay day. While in the beginning they were for unfair labor conditions (low wages, little to no medical, unsafe conditions, etc.) in the end it got to be too much of a good thing. I knew some steel workers who made almost as much money by not going to work as they did going to work because of their union benifits. They would hope to be call in to work a week so that they would then be laid off and get great benifits for the next several weeks. The end of the story is that there is not one single mill operating inside the city. Yes, there is a very big plant nearby. Not sure what the numbers are today but an interesting fact (from about 2000) was that while employing far fewer workers, the US steel industry produced more steel than ever before. I also was pretty disturbed by the fact that they imported quite a bit of steel for the new span of the SF Bay bridge from China.

So boy, would I like to be in a Union that protected my benifits and salary. Also, I would like to abolish the teacher's union so that the could get rid of a few of the really crappy teachers in our school system. That last comment is not to take away from all of the dedicated people who work in that profession.

FrankSchwab
11-16-2012, 02:34 PM
I guess the nuclear option is always one approach to dealing with a labor strike. Seems a bit petty on the Company's side, but as far as I'm concerned it's an issue between Hostess and the Baker's Union, similar to a major layoff done in order to outsource production to another country.

The one I've been more pissed off by is Buckyballs (http://www.getbuckyballs.com/).

Driven out of business by the CPSC over 22 injured children since 2009 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eliyahu-federman/banning-buckyball-magnets_b_1711110.html). There are probably more injuries than that from the forks kids use at dinnertime, much less cars, boats, dogs, tubs, pools, footballs, baseballs and bats, soccer, pencils, and projectile weapons. Ever been in front of a fully loaded high-power NERF gun?

/frank

GoneBoatN
11-16-2012, 02:35 PM
Oh, you can get just as much calorie loaded food by going to your local baker and that supports the good folks who have started local businesses in your hometown. :D

mikeg205
11-16-2012, 02:48 PM
Company was over-leveraged and all were at fault...management and unions...who suffers, the workers and the twinkie addicts...

mzimme
11-16-2012, 02:49 PM
Surely with unemployment above 8% there are people that could fill those 18,500 jobs...

From what I understand, the union workers were looking for somewhere between a 10-15% increase in wages every year built into the contracts. That's a bit excessive considering the state of the economy right now.

Rossterman
11-16-2012, 02:51 PM
Also have to look at the big picture as to hostess' revenues. In the current day, you have to anticipate what the market wants and continue to adjust. My guess is that like blockbuster video and some others, they weren't keeping pace with the market. As said above, "I have a twinkie once or twice a year". I imagine the demand for processed cakes filled with sugar laden fillings is probably much smaller than when I was a kid (my favorite was snowballs- loved the coconut!) and many like me, haven't bought too many of their products over the years. Couple this with higher labor costs, and at some point you might as well call it quits.

mikeg205
11-16-2012, 02:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeS6DvyLScE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1vYj0E2Hr0

JimN
11-16-2012, 03:04 PM
Hmmm.. stockpiling twinkies... Their shelf life is probably in the years so this may be a good idea. Or sell on ebay.

I thought it was determined that they have a half-life, not shelf-life.:D

ski_king
11-16-2012, 03:05 PM
I havenít had a Twinkie in over 20 years. This thread prompted me to get one out of the vending machine as it may be my last chance.

Now I remember why I havenít had one in 20 years.

But since they have an infinite shelf life, I was counting on them for the zombie apocalypse.

JimN
11-16-2012, 03:13 PM
I'm concerned more about the hit to the venders and companies that provided services to Hostess, as well as to the employees. The loss to the whole chain will be extensive. 18.5K who will no longer buy as much gas, food, electronics, clothing, cars/trucks or anything else. OTOH, if the unemployed have great benefits and are vested in their pension, some will probably retire but they could have avoided this- better to take a bit of a hit than lose the job if it means the company stays in business, IMO.

When the mantra becomes "More for me! More for me!", the chance of a company's survival becomes smaller and smaller.

mikeg205
11-16-2012, 03:14 PM
Just remember u can suck out the insides with a straw....lol :D

mzimme
11-16-2012, 03:23 PM
I havenít had a Twinkie in over 20 years. This thread prompted me to get one out of the vending machine as it may be my last chance.

Now I remember why I havenít had one in 20 years.

But since they have an infinite shelf life, I was counting on them for the zombie apocalypse.

Have you SEEN zombieland??? :D



http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1mob3hob71qmdlvho1_500.jpg

mzimme
11-16-2012, 03:25 PM
I'm concerned more about the hit to the venders and companies that provided services to Hostess, as well as to the employees. The loss to the whole chain will be extensive. 18.5K who will no longer buy as much gas, food, electronics, clothing, cars/trucks or anything else. OTOH, if the unemployed have great benefits and are vested in their pension, some will probably retire but they could have avoided this- better to take a bit of a hit than lose the job if it means the company stays in business, IMO.

When the mantra becomes "More for me! More for me!", the chance of a company's survival becomes smaller and smaller.

I'm sure the CEO's were paying themselves healthily through this whole downturn process as well. Actually I think I saw an article pointing out that "it was reported" (whatever that means) that the execs were boosting their share by 80% while not wanting to pay the labor unions more. Who knows...

Maybe Bane Capital needs to step in. ;)

jdl xstar
11-16-2012, 04:02 PM
I thought it was determined that they have a half-life, not shelf-life.:D

Ha! Clever!

trickskier
11-16-2012, 06:50 PM
The employees and unions need to understand that it was the owners money, sacrifice and risk that gave them a job. The owners only owe the employees a safe place to work and a paycheck at the end of the week! If the employees don't feel or think they're being paid enough they should look for another job. Or better yet take the risk of starting their own business and see how it feels to be unionized!!!

Want to know why we've lost so many jobs to China? One word Unions!!! :mad:

medicmoose
11-16-2012, 07:05 PM
The employees and unions need to understand that it was the owners money, sacrifice and risk that gave them a job. The owners only owe the employees a safe place to work and a paycheck at the end of the week! If the employees don't feel or think they're being paid enough they should look for another job. Or better yet take the risk of starting their own business and see how it feels to be unionized!!!

Want to know why we've lost so many jobs to China? One word Unions!!! :mad:

AMEN!! I mean unions served a great purpose at one time but these days they only serve to protect those who could never retain employment without a union. It sickens me! The "pendulum swing" has gone too far the other way...we need to bring it back to the middle where there are fair wages, safe work environments but that slight, healthy fear of losing your job that keeps you on the straight and narrow.

We now have lots of legislation/laws (at least here in Canada) that protect workers that the unions usefulness is greatly diminished. Now they are more intent on causing problems than they are in creating solutions!

TOO-TALL
11-16-2012, 07:20 PM
Want to know why we've lost so many jobs to China? One word Unions!!! :mad:

So True!!

east tx skier
11-16-2012, 07:38 PM
Twinkies will be back in under six months. Hostess, probably not. But two bankruptcies in the last 8 years, it was probably coming the strike notwithstanding.

I haven't had a twinkie or a dingdong or a snoball or anything like that in so long, I'm pretty sure I won't miss it.

liledgy
11-16-2012, 08:56 PM
No dog in this fight. But to compare a union today to the steelworkers of the seventies is ridiculous. They might as well as be on different planets. I have know idea what they make (and no one here has offered up any info either) so to blame union when you have no idea about the details shows your ignorance. I find it very hard to blue e that a factory worker wants 10-15% per year increase in wages. Unions have helped far more people (non union and white collar) outside of collective bargaining than themselves. And besides the owners of company's or the blue chip officers of large corporations were all better off when companies pay a decent working wage and benefit package.

ted shred
11-16-2012, 09:22 PM
Surely with unemployment above 8% there are people that could fill those 18,500 jobs...

From what I understand, the union workers were looking for somewhere between a 10-15% increase in wages every year built into the contracts. That's a bit excessive considering the state of the economy right now.

The workers simply wanted to keep what they had. Back in 2008 all the union employees at Hostess were asked to give wage and benefit concessions to help the company get out of bankruptcy. They complied, the company did not adhere to their plan to turn the company around. Instead most of the management got bonuses. The company did not reinvest modernization as they had proposed.
They did not want to see this happen again. I am one of the Teamsters who accepted the new proposal. The bakers chose not to. It's too bad that they chose to shut down. It is also questionable if these concessions would have been enough to turn things around. The company was poorly managed on almost every level.

trickskier
11-16-2012, 09:29 PM
No dog in this fight. But to compare a union today to the steelworkers of the seventies is ridiculous. They might as well as be on different planets. I have know idea what they make (and no one here has offered up any info either) so to blame union when you have no idea about the details shows your ignorance. I find it very hard to blue e that a factory worker wants 10-15% per year increase in wages. Unions have helped far more people (non union and white collar) outside of collective bargaining than themselves. And besides the owners of company's or the blue chip officers of large corporations were all better off when companies pay a decent working wage and benefit package.

This obviously shows your ignorance. Unions are only in the game for what's in it for "THEM". They could care less about who they represent or who they put out of business as long as their members pay dues! Many a good company has gone out of business in the USA because unions told their members not to take wage concessions and hold out. Where are these employee's now? In the unemployment line or greeting customers at Walmart!

So what do the unions do after these hard working individuals lose their jobs? They tell their members we're sorry we gave it our best effort and then start looking to organize another company. The only thing the unions are concerned about is collecting DUES!!! So they can live Fat & Happy!!!

You obviously have never run or owned a company that a union has tried to organize! I have and I can tell you first hand that I fought the unions and Won!

GoneBoatN
11-17-2012, 12:06 AM
...Unions have helped far more people (non union and white collar) outside of collective bargaining than themselves...

I have but one word: Seriously?

liledgy
11-17-2012, 05:29 AM
Yes, seriously. Pike electric (southern electrical contractor) is just coming back from hurricane sandy. The line hands had a good couple of weeks thanks to the ibew and the Neca contractors association.

trickskier
11-17-2012, 06:34 AM
Yes, seriously. Pike electric (southern electrical contractor) is just coming back from hurricane sandy. The line hands had a good couple of weeks thanks to the ibew and the Neca contractors association.

Pike Electric working Hurricane Sandy had nothing to do with the IBEW or NECA Contractors Association. Companies not the IBEW or NECA contract their workers to the local utilities when a natural disater occurs. The IBEW does not own any equipment they only represent their membership.

JohnnyB
11-17-2012, 07:29 AM
Unions need to reinvent themselves to survive. In the beginning they were about a fair day's work for a fair day's pay and safe working conditions. To someone's point earlier, labor laws and laws in general have replaced most of the need on this basis. Next, the benefit of unions was training their members to be a more effective work force and being a partner with business. However, now all they seem to be about is a shelter for under performers which is breeding a generally complacent and entitled workforce. On top of that it has become all about them to the point that unions are doing no more than extorting businesses to line their pockets and further their political agenda of further fostering socialism.

Now lets talk about dues.....realize that the unions are far from responsibly run businesses. You think big companies are run by crooks....the large union conventions are held in places like Hawaii and are somewhat extravegant at the expense of those paying dues....

Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk 2

liledgy
11-17-2012, 08:50 AM
Mr potter, I don't have much time now as I'm working 16 hrs a day for the 22 day in a row. But it provides a roof over my head and allows my wife to stay home, pay for my sons u of Illinois tuition (and my 28 year old mc lol). Neca is the contractors, although I'm an owner too ( publicly traded co.) in the building trades, guys get fired all the time, (one man layoff). 3 got fired on this storm. Got to go

milkmania
11-17-2012, 09:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeS6DvyLScE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1vYj0E2Hr0

that's where I was gonna go:D

BrooksfamX2
11-17-2012, 09:32 AM
back on topic, I wont actually miss the 2 Ho-Ho's I have a year, but I will miss the thought of not being able to get one if I wanted to........ :rolleyes:

DemolitionMan
11-17-2012, 05:07 PM
:mad::cry::cry:

JimN
11-17-2012, 06:15 PM
Never forget-

medicmoose
11-17-2012, 06:21 PM
There's always ebay!! :rolleyes:

JustinLoFlow
11-19-2012, 11:28 PM
So you guys are all going to say you never have Donettes? Those tasty little donuts? They came in chocolate, crumb, and powdered. There was a flavor for everyone!

JimN
11-20-2012, 12:03 AM
I liked the apple or blueberry pie but haven't been eating much bakery since I quit drinking diet soda- I don't have food cravings anymore.

d2jp
11-20-2012, 07:58 AM
If you've got the time, or inclination - a great read on the demise of the Twinkie:)

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/26/hostess-twinkies-bankrupt/

jdl xstar
11-20-2012, 09:58 AM
If you've got the time, or inclination - a great read on the demise of the Twinkie:)

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/26/hostess-twinkies-bankrupt/

Thanks for sharing that link. The author sure had good foresight and knowledge of the ordeal. It appears the company was doomed more or less from the double whammy of the '08 recession and the rising prices of corn&sugar. Labor costs keep rising and pension liabilities to be paid... all these headwinds for a company that just simply isn't selling as many cakes as they used to.

GoneBoatN
11-20-2012, 11:27 AM
If you've got the time, or inclination - a great read on the demise of the Twinkie:)

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/26/hostess-twinkies-bankrupt/

Sounds like a story of Greed, Greed and More Greed = Kills. After reading this story I would have a very difficult time buying a Twinkie; not that it does not happen elsewhere.

mikeg205
11-20-2012, 11:48 AM
hmmm great read...I immediately thought of Tootsie Roll and Dunkin' Donuts...they keep changing course and re-inventing themselves... everyone thought Krispy Kreme would kill Dunkin Dounts...but alas you can get a extra large latte for about half of what Starbucks charges...

If you need a twinkie fix there's always the Cloud Cake from Little Debbie...

or get some pound cake and shmear this on it.

Filling recipe...don't forget the shortening...lol

2 teaspoons very hot water
rounded 1/4 teaspoon salt
2 cups marshmallow creme (1 7-ounce jar)
1/2 cup shortening
1/3 cup powdered sugar
1/2 teaspoon vanilla

mikeg205
12-10-2012, 08:26 AM
There's a financial fight to buy hostess brands...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100293789

---- >> http://www.doughforhostess.com/pledges if you want to be part of a main street bid for hostess... :)

milkmania
12-10-2012, 10:03 AM
maybe Oprah will save themhttp://deephousepage.com/smilies/nixweiss.gif

JimN
12-10-2012, 12:04 PM
maybe Oprah will save themhttp://deephousepage.com/smilies/nixweiss.gif

By eating them, or buying the company?

scott023
12-10-2012, 12:16 PM
By eating them, or buying the company?

Either is not that hard to believe. ;)

JimN
12-10-2012, 12:19 PM
Either is not that hard to believe. ;)

I never heard that she was a big fan of Twinkies- I only heard that when she said she was "addicted to crack", she found herself sitting on the kitchen floor, crying, eating frozen hot dog buns with Ketchup.

I don't think it would be a big stretch of the imagination, though. Besides, she has more than enough money. She has done well, for someone who was bused for a couple of years from the inner city to the high school I went to.