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elliott
11-15-2012, 10:47 AM
when i sack out my x80. adding about 4000lbs in the rear and about 1500 in the front. causes the boat to track sideways BAD. its a twin engine and ive messed with the throttles giving more gas to one and less to the other. also messed with the trim tabs. nothing will straighten it out. has any one added tracking fins to their boat before. thinking that might fix it.... also checked the props they are new and have the same casting numbers on them. also even when the boat isnt slammed it still seems to have a slight drift to it when going 35mph plus but i can usually fix it with slowing down one throttle or adding a little to the other.... and ideas. thanks robby

NatesGr8
11-15-2012, 11:04 AM
does it always track the same direction? Do you feel a pulling in the steering wheel?

elliott
11-15-2012, 11:10 AM
havent noticed it pulling the wheel. if i didnt know better i would think that i have 2 way different prop sizes on it

JimN
11-15-2012, 11:43 AM
when i sack out my x80. adding about 4000lbs in the rear and about 1500 in the front. causes the boat to track sideways BAD. its a twin engine and ive messed with the throttles giving more gas to one and less to the other. also messed with the trim tabs. nothing will straighten it out. has any one added tracking fins to their boat before. thinking that might fix it.... also checked the props they are new and have the same casting numbers on them. also even when the boat isnt slammed it still seems to have a slight drift to it when going 35mph plus but i can usually fix it with slowing down one throttle or adding a little to the other.... and ideas. thanks robby

What is the weight capacity of this boat? You have a shyteload of weight in the rear and a lot less in front- ever seen how well a stern-drive goes straight when the trim is too high? You're doing the same thing- it's not designed to have that much of a weight imbalance.

Did you check the props for bent blades and check for pitch? You have a tach for each engine?

elliott
11-15-2012, 11:55 AM
i dont know if it has a weight cap. its yacht certified. at least ive never seen one. i know it doestnt have a people cap. the props are brand new. nothing bent. but they are still the brass ones. wondering if i should have went with stainless ones. yea i have a tach for each motor and if the shifters are side by side the rpms are with in 200 of each other.


i wouldnt think the boat should skate or slide sideways across the water at 22mph with that much weight.

bjames
11-15-2012, 12:24 PM
X80's are yacht certified (no real weight restriction). I assume the boat tracks straight when not loaded? If so, definatly has to do with an unballanced load. Perhaps you can fill them slowly to see at what point the boat starts to crab.

elliott
11-15-2012, 12:29 PM
it craps a little at higher speeds when there is 0 ballast in the boat. starts doing it around 30mph but is way worse when its slammed

JimN
11-15-2012, 12:33 PM
i dont know if it has a weight cap. its yacht certified. at least ive never seen one. i know it doestnt have a people cap. the props are brand new. nothing bent. but they are still the brass ones. wondering if i should have went with stainless ones. yea i have a tach for each motor and if the shifters are side by side the rpms are with in 200 of each other.


i wouldnt think the boat should skate or slide sideways across the water at 22mph with that much weight.

There's no such thing as a watercraft that DOESN'T have a weight rating. There's always a limit to the safe weight that's in a boat and if you go too far over, the hull can fail. At speed, the forces from 5500 lb of water is probably well over the limit. The spec sheet showed 1000 lb as the standard amount of ballast. You're more than two tons over that and you didn't even say how much weight from passengers/gear you carry.

The difference from stainless is found during hard acceleration and turns- stainless doesn't flex as much but at low speeds, I would bet that your problem is because the keel line isn't fully in the water- that helps keep the boat on track. Adding tracking fins won't help low speed operation- those are made for keeling it online when the skier is pulling hard to the side by using the force from the water to counteract the torque.

If you have more weight on one side, it won't/can't go straight unless the hull was designed with that in mind.

JimN
11-15-2012, 12:37 PM
it craps a little at higher speeds when there is 0 ballast in the boat. starts doing it around 30mph but is way worse when its slammed

Care to define "craps out"? Have you talked to the dealer about this? If you have an iPhone ot iPod Touch, you could use the app that lets you check the level of the floor at rest (or find a surface that's parallel, but higher) and compare the attitude when it starts to become unstable.

bjames
11-15-2012, 12:37 PM
If the boat specifiations do not give a maximum load/occupancy and only states "Yacht Certified" I courious what that means in terms of real weight. This certification can be grossly misinterpreted.

bjames
11-15-2012, 12:38 PM
Care to define "craps out"? Have you talked to the dealer about this?

I think he means "Crabs out".

JimN
11-15-2012, 12:40 PM
X80's are yacht certified (no real weight restriction). I assume the boat tracks straight when not loaded? If so, definatly has to do with an unballanced load. Perhaps you can fill them slowly to see at what point the boat starts to crab.

You'd think they have a limit, so it won't be overloaded to the point that it swamps or becomes unsafe at any speed. Obviously, wave action determines this but 5500 lb is a lot of weight for a boat of this size- if it was a deep V, it would be different.

elliott
11-15-2012, 12:40 PM
i ment to say crabs

elliott
11-15-2012, 12:41 PM
http://www.mastercraft.com/boats/overview/x80

JimN
11-15-2012, 12:43 PM
If the boat specifiations do not give a maximum load/occupancy and only states "Yacht Certified" I courious what that means in terms of real weight. This certification can be grossly misinterpreted.

Kind of like "all you can eat' restaurants.

elliott
11-15-2012, 12:44 PM
i can tell you this that 6420 weight is way off. ive ran mine across the scales at my local city plant the boat was over 9000. thats with about a half a tank of gas and not much gear just a few life jackets

elliott
11-15-2012, 12:47 PM
the x80 has a pretty deep v. when its parked on a trailor next to my buddys x45 or even my 2010 247 malibu it dorfs those boats

JimN
11-15-2012, 01:09 PM
i can tell you this that 6420 weight is way off. ive ran mine across the scales at my local city plant the boat was over 9000. thats with about a half a tank of gas and not much gear just a few life jackets

Did you have filled ballast, or empty? What about the weight of the trailer?

JimN
11-15-2012, 01:10 PM
the x80 has a pretty deep v. when its parked on a trailor next to my buddys x45 or even my 2010 247 malibu it dorfs those boats

The V is considered to be "deep" if the angles exceed certain specs. The beam vs the dead rise and length have a lot to do with how it handles, too.

elliott
11-15-2012, 01:26 PM
the ballast was empty and thats factoring in the weight of the trailer. my supercharged h2sut hates the thing. i cant run the a/c pulling it or if its over a 100 outside i cant pull no matter what. the temp on the motor will peg in a few miles. thats with me putting a custom ron davis triple core radiator and taking the manual fan out and installing triple electric fans 2 suckers and 1 pusher. even my new duramax runs about 3/4 on the temp gauge if its hot outside and running the a/c. my truck also has a 8inch fabtech with 24 inch rockstars and 38inch tires. but i also put 456 gears in it when i lifted it. thats the only thing i hate about the 80 is hauling it. but once on the water its like a cadillac

just kills me that it tracks funny across the water. didnt know if other people have had the same prob, or even noticed it

willyt
11-15-2012, 02:01 PM
i would definitely check the listing at rest - you might have a weight imbalance causing it to crab.

Another thing to mention that no one has yet is your leveling tabs (surf tabs?) I think the 80 is the first boat to have these, although they really weren't marketed as surf tabs until 2010. that could be causing the crab if they're not all the way up too.

How do you fit 4k of ballast in the rear of that boat? you have twin screws, so there's no v-drive lockers... you sure you're actually running 5,500 lbs of ballast? I'd also experiment with weight distribution... i'm really, really surprised you can even ride with the weight like that - would have thought you'd need to go 30 before the wake cleaned up. try more weight in the bow

P.S. where are you in the midwest? i'd kill to get a set behind an 80... especially weighted that well

just don't be this guy: http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=780094&page=6

elliott
11-15-2012, 03:16 PM
in norman oklahoma. pretty much right in the middle of oklahoma. if you come down ill pull you from end to the other. we mainly just party off the 80. but weve gotten into surfing alot and one day with all the sacks full i wanted to see if the boat would actually get up on plane with that much weight and it did with ease. the wake deff. wasnt washing it was stupid big, really big. as far as sacks i have 3 1500lb sacks. the boat has a factory 500 on each side. i throw a 1500 on each side of the motor and a 15 in the floor up front. there is tons of room beside each motor. probably a good 24 to 30 inches at the bottom and more than 36 towards the top.

another thing im wonding is how much the swim deck effects the surf wake on the 80 because its a huge deck and with it weighted down the deck is really smashing in. thinking about rigging up some kind of hydrolic so i can tilt the swim deck one way or the other depending on what side of the wake your surfing

02ProstarSammyD
11-15-2012, 03:31 PM
just don't be this guy: http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showt...=780094&page=6

Fake lon was the man lol. Drudging up alot of old laughs there. The real question is this the fake lon or the real guy? OMG THIS IS ALL A CONSPIRACY!

bjames
11-15-2012, 03:33 PM
Sounds like your H2 is struggling to tow that beast. You may want to conside a 3/4 or 1 tron Pickup. Or at least something that can pull a large holidy trailer 5th wheel as they are around 10,000lbs.

elliott
11-15-2012, 03:42 PM
i have a new duramax. ill post a pic of the rig

elliott
11-15-2012, 03:43 PM
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=86658&stc=1&d=1353008571

mzimme
11-15-2012, 03:44 PM
If your boat actually weighs 9000 lbs, you're way over your towing capacity on that H2. Depending on the year, those were rated at 6500 or 8000lbs. Careful...

elliott
11-15-2012, 03:46 PM
i live about 7 miles from my local lake so it wasnt such a big deal. still got the h2 but only tow with the d max now. should have seen it behind my wifes 2010 escalade..... the escalade really hated the boat.

elliott
11-15-2012, 03:52 PM
when i first got the boat 2 years agohttp://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=86659&stc=1&d=1353008909

milkmania
11-16-2012, 10:02 PM
Time to upgrade...

http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSx4zjJRoZcZXBgxkFUPpfvc1xG9kjoH qlLPP2PjaWEJ5V_vUhJnQ

http://www.google.com/search?q=f650&hl=en&tbo=d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=MPCmUOv4K8bS2QWV_oHQAg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=320&bih=416#p=2

milkmania
11-16-2012, 10:08 PM
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=lFHfkYVRJAc&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DlFHfkYVRJAc

KelownaX45
11-17-2012, 12:57 PM
I will second that the boat is over 9000lbs on the trailer. With a full fuel tank (100 gallons) I bet its almost over 9500lbs. I scaled it with an empty tank, no water in the boat, and it was at 9200.
Yes my truck is a liittle light for the job, bit it only has to go a few blocks.

MIskier
11-17-2012, 08:15 PM
The listing is being caused by the step in the hull if I had to guess. Does the boat come up to speed and then start listing over and not want to accelerate? The step needs to be able to draw in air to ventilate the back side of the step, if that does not happen you will actually start drawing a vacuum and the boat will try to reach equilibrium, thus causing your list.

JimN
11-17-2012, 08:36 PM
The listing is being caused by the step in the hull if I had to guess. Does the boat come up to speed and then start listing over and not want to accelerate? The step needs to be able to draw in air to ventilate the back side of the step, if that does not happen you will actually start drawing a vacuum and the boat will try to reach equilibrium, thus causing your list.

And, with excessive weight at the rear, the step may be the first outside edge in contact with the water, so it's not going to be stable. Also, it was mentioned that the swim platform was being pressed into the wake hard and that lifts the stern, causing uneven pressure because of the prop wash's bias WRT the rotation and centerline of the prop shaft although using counter-rotating props would minimize this to some degree.

MIskier
11-17-2012, 09:33 PM
And, with excessive weight at the rear, the step may be the first outside edge in contact with the water, so it's not going to be stable. Also, it was mentioned that the swim platform was being pressed into the wake hard and that lifts the stern, causing uneven pressure because of the prop wash's bias WRT the rotation and centerline of the prop shaft although using counter-rotating props would minimize this to some degree.

Without seeing pictures that's all just conjecture and its hard to determine how the boat is running. But as I said blocked flow is a common cause of dynamic instability in stepped hull boats especially single stepped boats like the 80.

elliott
11-19-2012, 11:00 AM
my wife would kill me if i parked something like that in our driveway

elliott
11-19-2012, 11:09 AM
i think i need to reconfigure my stereo battery bank. i have 8 6volts in the crapper room. probably move them to the bow and put 4 on one side and 4 on the other. other than that it should pretty equal on weight. never thought about the extra 900 pounds of batteries right in the middle of the boat making it crap. i also have my 2 13w6 in a bandpass box on the same side.

JimN
11-19-2012, 11:31 AM
i think i need to reconfigure my stereo battery bank. i have 8 6volts in the crapper room. probably move them to the bow and put 4 on one side and 4 on the other. other than that it should pretty equal on weight. never thought about the extra 900 pounds of batteries right in the middle of the boat making it crap. i also have my 2 13w6 in a bandpass box on the same side.

Why are you using 6V batteries? This is the second time I have seen a reference to using 6v batteries in the last two weeks. Putting them in series works for getting 12VDC but it's really an odd way of getting the best performance. Also, if you didn't update the alternator, you need to.

rgardjr1
11-19-2012, 06:06 PM
Why are you using 6V batteries? This is the second time I have seen a reference to using 6v batteries in the last two weeks. Putting them in series works for getting 12VDC but it's really an odd way of getting the best performance. Also, if you didn't update the alternator, you need to.

I think people are using 6 volt golf cart batteries. Supposedly the cheapest route to go per amp hour.

JimN
11-19-2012, 08:45 PM
I think people are using 6 volt golf cart batteries. Supposedly the cheapest route to go per amp hour.

OK, then add the extra cables, terminals, switches, time to make the setup work, battery cases/terminal covers and the fact that every connection is a likely point of failure- what's the actual benefit, again?

Chief
11-19-2012, 09:35 PM
I think I would post some pics of the wake before and after. I can't imagine a 9K boat with stock ballast wake, much less adding 5500 lbs to it.

The ultimate man extender!

elliott
11-19-2012, 10:56 PM
use the 6 volts because its a ton more amp hours for my stereo. i started off with 6 blue top optimas. they would last about 6 hours of play time if i was lucky. then i went to 3 3200 kenetics. they would last about 10-12 hours. i was ok with that. then i had one short out after 4 months. so i started thinking they wasnt that trust worthy for the amount of money they cost. so i did some research and talked to a few people and they said switch to 6 volts. each of my 6 volt batterys weights about 104lbs and it takes two to make 12volts so each 12 volt battery weights a little over 200lbs and i have 8 of them so thats a little over 800lbs of led weight. ive only had this set up for about 6 or 7 months and its crazy how well they last. ive yet to run them down to the point my amps start clipping. i played it 3 days hard at brostock this year and never charged it. drunk and forgot. i also have them stand alone. my alternators do not charge the stereo batterys nor do they start the engines, i have 2 blue tops for the motors. i have a 60amp smart charger that i plug in at the dock or i use a honda 2000 generator. if someone was going to add extra batteries and didnt go with 6 volt they are nuts. they are cheaper and man they can handle some abuse. i have a some what large system in my boat and they have yet to let me down

i have 5. 750/1 jl mhd amps. 3 run my tower. 4 rev10s and 1 rev410 the other 2 run my subs 2 jl13w6 in a bandpass box

then i have 2. 600/4 jl mhd amps. they are running my jl 7.7 inside speakers and 1 m10w5

at my local lake we turn this thing wide open and walk away and play on the beach.

vandit0022
11-20-2012, 03:47 AM
The listing is being caused by the step in the hull if I had to guess. Does the boat come up to speed and then start listing over and not want to accelerate? The step needs to be able to draw in air to ventilate the back side of the step, if that does not happen you will actually start drawing a vacuum and the boat will try to reach equilibrium, thus causing your list.

I would guess this is more probable than anything else. The 80's balance port/starboard is very finicky even when not loaded down. Trim tab adjustments have to be made as people walk around or change seats or it will tip one way or the other far more than when I had a 21 ft Centurion. I've found for surfing, that turning just slightly to the side your surfer is on helps get that clean bigger wake in this boat. Again, it's very touchy and sensitive to load distribution. I've also found that front weighting seems to flatten out the wake for whatever reason. Lastly, it is yacht rated so there really is no "posted" weight limit anywhere, but obviously every boat has some limit.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

elliott
11-20-2012, 11:04 AM
i wouldnt agree with all that. the only time i use my trim tabs is when i have 7 or 8 people sitting on one side of the boat and 2 or 3 on the other. i would agree with the turning while surfing though. thats only when using the stock ballast. i can throw a 1500 on one side and it fixes that problem.

Project X
12-21-2012, 05:38 AM
Did you get your tracking problem fixed/