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mybobtail
11-09-2012, 11:06 AM
I put my 3 hours old 197 into the water today drove it the length of lake about Halve a mile
then drove back with a skier got to end started to turn then the temp light came on I noticed high temp switched off motor straight away .i ph dealer and it's going in first thing Monday.
what I want to know is does anyone start there boat before they put in water. I don't run the motor I just turn key soon as it turns over I switch it off.only because the first time I put my x14 in the water the battery was flat. after that I did it every time with the 14 had no probs.
the dealer said I might of burnt out one of the pick up blades. and I not suppose to do it.
but I did it with jet ski and the X14. the guy that runs the lakes said last year it happen to a brand new Malibu so he said it not uncommon

KelownaX45
11-09-2012, 11:22 AM
We never start the engines or turn the motors over out of the water. I will back the trailer up enough to get the pick-ups wet and then fire them up, then power off the trailer. If you have a bad battery, no worries, your still on the trailer and not flotaing anywhere.

jdl xstar
11-09-2012, 11:26 AM
Something certainly sounds wrong with the water intake but I wouldn't be quick to assume its because of turning your engine over for a couple seconds out of the water. Did you ever drive through weeds or a shallow area so that you could have sucked up some gunk?

If my boat has been sitting for a couple weeks or more, I always turn the engine over (much to my neighbor's chagrin) for literally 1 second to make sure the batteries are good. So don't feel bad about doing that and i hardly think that a second of spinning dry can damage the impellor. In terms of boating, few things are worse than getting to the dock and having dead batteries. good luck

mzimme
11-09-2012, 11:38 AM
If you fired up your boat without hooking it to any water source, especially after having it sit for any extended period of time, you probably didn't break just 1 vane from your impeller, but you probably broke every one of them off instead. NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, under any circumstance start your boat without it being in the water or hooked up to a hose. The impeller vanes are rubber, rubbing against a metal housing. They burn up and break off very quickly when they start spinning while they're dry, and they start spinning as soon as the starter starts trying to turn the motor over. If you started it for the first time after sitting all winter, the rubber impeller had also probably began to seat to the metal housing, making it even harder to spin and break loose on the first start while dry. Impellers need to be lubricated, and water is their lubricant. It's like having a prostate examination with no lube... you wouldn't like that would ya? ;)

The good news is, you could fix this yourself for the cost of an impeller at www.skidim.com instead of paying for what will probably end up being a 500+ dollar dealer visit. If you decide to do it yourself, be sure to go through all the hoses after the impeller housing up all the way to your thermostat, because that's more than likely where all of the vanes you broke off are piled up at.

mybobtail
11-09-2012, 11:46 AM
hi thanks for the replies so far. just to let you know I am in oz so we are starting our summer .and the boats brand new I took it out 2weeks ago and then again today .so it hasn't been sitting .
we checked underneath and there was no weeds etc near the intake .

ski/hunt
11-09-2012, 11:50 AM
Check for stuff at the trans cooler. Lots of small stuff can clog the small openings in there and reduce the amount of water the engine will get.

Oh and don't start dry or get P-exam without lube!!:)

Ski-me
11-09-2012, 11:51 AM
hi thanks for the replies so far. just to let you know I am in oz so we are starting our summer .and the boats brand new I took it out 2weeks ago and then again today .so it hasn't been sitting .
we checked underneath and there was no weeds etc near the intake .

Take a look at your impellar and see what kind of condition it's in.

jgraham37128
11-09-2012, 12:07 PM
My dealer started a new boat in the showroom and man did it sound sweet! I personally never start it out of the water. I do exactly what someone else recommends I leave it on the trailer and back it off in reverse. I don't like the push off the trailer due to anything can happen and if it's still on the trailer you really don't have any big problems. (leave the plug out and etc..)

I'm going to bet it's not the impellar, I think it's something else.

Let us know what you find.

JG

jgraham37128
11-09-2012, 12:08 PM
And wow, I sure wish it was summer here!

thatsmrmastercraft
11-09-2012, 12:12 PM
Simple answer is it sucked up some weeds and the transmission oil cooler is clogged. Easy fix, and something a person should do as preventive maintenance a couple times a season.

And yes, you can start a boat out of water and not see any immediate issues, but this will catch up with you with shortened impeller life and potentially an overheated boat on the water.

Thrall
11-09-2012, 12:14 PM
You won't wreck a good impeller by cranking the engine or even starting it up briefly with no water to the engine.
My usual routine if I have to start it out of the water (at home), since I just put a garden hose in the r/w line, is to start the boat with the hose ready to go, then go turn on the hose. It runs for 10-15sec dry, no problem.
I had an unfortunate incident with a defective Perko flush pro first time out a couple years ago. Boat idled for proabably a couple minutes before I realized what was going on. The engine compartment got very hot, light smoke from somewhere was the clue, but it actually did not ruin anything. Exhaust hoses were fine, impeller fine. Not that I'm reccomending to do that, but evidence that starting it dry for a few seconds won't hurt anything.

mzimme
11-09-2012, 12:22 PM
You won't wreck a good impeller by cranking the engine or even starting it up briefly with no water to the engine.
My usual routine if I have to start it out of the water (at home), since I just put a garden hose in the r/w line, is to start the boat with the hose ready to go, then go turn on the hose. It runs for 10-15sec dry, no problem.
I had an unfortunate incident with a defective Perko flush pro first time out a couple years ago. Boat idled for proabably a couple minutes before I realized what was going on. The engine compartment got very hot, light smoke from somewhere was the clue, but it actually did not ruin anything. Exhaust hoses were fine, impeller fine. Not that I'm reccomending to do that, but evidence that starting it dry for a few seconds won't hurt anything.

No offense, but just because things came out ok for you at one time does not mean the correct advice given should be that starting dry is fine. Starting dry is what ruins impellers prematurely, there's really no disputing that. Impellers can go bye bye in as little as a few seconds, it's just not worth a dry start.

TRBenj
11-09-2012, 12:34 PM
No offense, but just because things came out ok for you at one time does not mean the correct advice given should be that starting dry is fine. Starting dry is what ruins impellers prematurely, there's really no disputing that. Impellers can go bye bye in as little as a few seconds, it's just not worth a dry start.
No, he's right... at least mostly. Unless the RWP was drained fully (this will not happen over time- only if it was drained or blown out), a "dry start" isnt actually dry- there is some residual water left in it. A quick start without water is NOT going to shred an impeller. Im talking 1-2 seconds... not 30+. I dont trailer regularly, so Im not subjecting the impeller to this practice on a regular basis... but on all the boats I own or work on, I do a quick dry start before heading to the ramp... sure beats monkeying around once you get there. I get 5+ years out of my impellers.

XtwentyNot
11-09-2012, 12:49 PM
I blame the dealer for me having to change the impeller at less then 10 hours on a new X25. I yelled at them when they dry fired it, they laughed at me. I made them give me a new impeller to put in my glove box. I should have made them change it since I overheated and had to change it on my next use.

east tx skier
11-09-2012, 01:17 PM
Even though there is water in the pump housing, I err on the side of not starting the boat out of the water unless it is hooked up to a water source. If you are worried about your battery's state, just turn on the blower. If it sounds weak, you may want to check the battery. If it fires up loud as ever, you're probably good to go. You should be running the blower anyway, right?

Also, if you have a fair amount of down time between uses, a battery cut off switch is a good investment. My boats have always managed to have one sort of phantom draw or another that will drain the battery over time. The switch is cheaper and easier for me than chasing the source of the draw.

Also, we have a battery powered jump starter that we keep charged up and take on the boat with us. It isn't huge and is good insurance.

thatsmrmastercraft
11-09-2012, 01:45 PM
Even though there is water in the pump housing, I err on the side of not starting the boat out of the water unless it is hooked up to a water source. If you are worried about your battery's state, just turn on the blower. If it sounds weak, you may want to check the battery. If it fires up loud as ever, you're probably good to go. You should be running the blower anyway, right?

Also, if you have a fair amount of down time between uses, a battery cut off switch is a good investment. My boats have always managed to have one sort of phantom draw or another that will drain the battery over time. The switch is cheaper and easier for me than chasing the source of the draw.

Also, we have a battery powered jump starter that we keep charged up and take on the boat with us. It isn't huge and is good insurance.

Great for peace of mind. Haven't needed mine since I got it.

mikeg205
11-09-2012, 03:56 PM
+ 1 on not running engine with no water... if you want to spin the engine to check it.. make sure the impeller is lubricated. I run in a muddy river that has it's share of duck weed and other flora that can get sucked up....so my MCOCD kicks in and I check my impeller a few outings and back flush the tranny cooler....usually get some grass out during the back flush.

I always check start in the drive way...lanyard off just to make sure all is good...yeah I know...the start in the drive good always be the last for a starter.... :)

mikeg205
11-09-2012, 03:57 PM
Great for peace of mind. Haven't needed mine since I got it.

Everyone I know who bought a jump starter never needed it.. lol.:)

mzimme
11-09-2012, 04:04 PM
I just bring jumper cables. I don't have a perko switch hooked up yet for my second battery (use the second battery for the stereo only), so if I need some extra power I hook up the cables and am usually fine. If not, someone else on the water will be able to help.

Miss Rita
11-09-2012, 04:21 PM
wouldn't the impeller run dry every time you start the engine until it draws water up through the intake hose?

mzimme
11-09-2012, 04:39 PM
wouldn't the impeller run dry every time you start the engine until it draws water up through the intake hose?

No, water stays in the impeller housing after you use the boat. That's why I mentioned if the boat had been sitting for a while after winter (cause I drain the impeller housing over winter). If he started it up after being stored, it would have been dry.

Sounds like the dealer gave it a few dry starts and ruined the impeller before he had a chance to get it on the lake.

jschildm
11-09-2012, 06:32 PM
It definately doesn't take long to ruin an impeller if dry, but with that said, I have bumped the engine to make sure its OK as well.

As for a jumper pack, I am lucky I pull the boat with a diesel because I have had to pull one of the two batteries to use in the boat on more than one occasion :)

GoneBoatN
11-09-2012, 07:08 PM
... because the first time I put my x14 in the water the battery was flat. ...



2013 197 right? Don't you have dual batteries? With a battery switch? and an isolator?

The above is the setup on my 2010, stock/standard. Plus I installed an automatic battery charger/tender. I turn the switch only to on to check; never start. For me I don't think it is worth the chance of dry starting, no matter how short. Chances of both batteries going south between an outing should be slim under those circumstances.

I agree with Eastie. Turn on, run the blower, turn off.


This reminds me that I'm overdue to check the general health of my batteries: Check fluid level. Check each cell. Perform a load test. I generally do a voltage test and also a hydrometer test.

Thrall
11-09-2012, 07:18 PM
+ 1 on not running engine with no water... if you want to spin the engine to check it.. make sure the impeller is lubricated. I run in a muddy river that has it's share of duck weed and other flora that can get sucked up....so my MCOCD kicks in and I check my impeller a few outings and back flush the tranny cooler....usually get some grass out during the back flush.

I always check start in the drive way...lanyard off just to make sure all is good...yeah I know...the start in the drive good always be the last for a starter.... :)

Don't buy an X2 then or you'd have to tear half the boat apart and stand on your head to check the impeller!:D

GoneBoatN
11-09-2012, 07:36 PM
wouldn't the impeller run dry every time you start the engine until it draws water up through the intake hose?

Not all setups are the same. I have a sea strainer mounted about the height of the impeller. The hose between the two dips down to to bottom of the bilge so it would constantly be full of water. The short distance between the sea strainer and the intake would be full of air. The short amount of time to draw water into that section should not cause the impeller/housing to actually get totally bone dry to the point of frying the impeller. All "Friday afternoon" theory of course. ;)

Oh, I should mention I fill that section of hose with water when I de-winterize before starting. Because - why not.

GoneBoatN
11-09-2012, 07:44 PM
+ 1 on not running engine with no water... if you want to spin the engine to check it.. make sure the impeller is lubricated. I run in a muddy river that has it's share of duck weed and other flora that can get sucked up....so my MCOCD kicks in and I check my impeller a few outings and back flush the tranny cooler....usually get some grass out during the back flush.

I always check start in the drive way...lanyard off just to make sure all is good...yeah I know...the start in the drive good always be the last for a starter.... :)

Don't buy an X2 then or you'd have to tear half the boat apart and stand on your head to check the impeller!:D

For us v-drive folks, a sea strainer is a really nice item to have.:friday:

ahhudgins
11-09-2012, 09:17 PM
It definately doesn't take long to ruin an impeller if dry, but with that said, I have bumped the engine to make sure its OK as well.

As for a jumper pack, I am lucky I pull the boat with a diesel because I have had to pull one of the two batteries to use in the boat on more than one occasion :)

I replace my impeller every spring whether it's bad or not and I keep a few old ones in my tool box for backup. I also "bump" my starter for a second before I take it down the ramp to make sure the battery is OK. I don't "start" the engine eventhough I know there is still water left in the impeller housing from the previous weekend. I'm not going to be "that guy" who blocks the ramp trying to figure out why his starter won't crank.

My jumper pack stays in my truck and gets transferred to the boat on the weekends. I haven't used it yet....unless you count helping out one of those darn ol' fishermen.:D

bturner2
11-10-2012, 07:40 AM
I've had four MasterCrafts over a period of 20 years and have on occasion bumped over (briefly started) all of them and have never experienced an impeller failure. When I do this procedure it's not at the ramp but in the driveway before I leave for the ramp and typically after the boat has not been started in a week or two. Bumping over your boat to see if it'll start while on the ramp is way late in the process. This being said I've never heard of anyone losing an impeller over a 2 second dry start and I've been around these boats for a long time. The failures I have seen have typically been due to an obstruction of water flow to the pump or poor maintenance.

If you've ever winterized your boat and pulled the impeller you'll notice water come out of the housing when you break the seal. I just winterized a boat last weekend that hadn't started in 2 months and water came out of it. This amount would be plenty of water to lubricate the impeller for a 2 - 3 second start. I too change my impeller every spring and it's been very rare that the old one has been in less than very good condition. I have seen no noticeable adverse wear from the 5 or 6 "dry starts" that I've preformed during any season.

XtwentyNot
11-10-2012, 02:07 PM
I can guarantee that had my dealer not felt the same way as some of you I would not have needed to replace the impeller at 10 hours. The best is how stupid they thought I was that it would do any damage after a few seconds. It had been in the water the day before. I only felt that way because my buddy did the same thing to me back in the 90's when I had my first DD boat (at the young age of 20) and he knew everything so he pre fired it at the staging area for a few seconds. Guess what? This is the day a learned two things: don't ever dry fire it and keep a spare impeller in the boat.
I yelled at my buddy who always did it in his Nautique, just a couple seconds, after four years(new impellers each year) it finally got him, he bought a fake a lake and no longer dry fires it.
Now going to the ramp with a dead battery is just dumb. In fact it was early in the season when the dealer effed me so I was tied up at the dock changing the impeller, I was shocked that almost half the boats showed up with a dead battery. I'm lucky these days to have an on board charger. But for years my cheapie sears charger worked just fine, plug it in the night before you go out. I've seen boat specific battery analyzers for around $20, or you can get a digital multimeter from harbor freight for $5 ( it goes on sale for $2, seen a coupon for Free once) and check your battery that way. Or turn your key and look at the volt gauge. A quick fire only depletes you battery since you don't give the alternator any time to recharge the battery. And I do stupid stuff like teak drag, so I'm not passing judgment nor do I expect anyone to change!

Red 08 Xstar
11-10-2012, 02:54 PM
If you fired up your boat without hooking it to any water source, especially after having it sit for any extended period of time, you probably didn't break just 1 vane from your impeller, but you probably broke every one of them off instead.

This is absolute misinformation. I start my boat all the time out of the water. When I winterize it at the end of the season the impeller is fine. I'm on the same impeller for 4 years now and it still looks like new.

madcityskier
11-10-2012, 03:48 PM
This is absolute misinformation. I start my boat all the time out of the water. When I winterize it at the end of the season the impeller is fine. I'm on the same impeller for 4 years now and it still looks like new.

So the guy who drives drunk all the time and hasn't killed anyone yet proves that drinking and driving isn't a bad thing? I know that's overstating things, but that's the logic you're using. Everything works, until it doesn't. You're way past the useful life of that impeller. It'll be fine till it isn't. Then when your engine overheats, I hope you're watching your temp gauge and shut it down before it does major damage. Ask yourself if a thirty dollar part and a few minutes are worth the risk to your engine.
Bumping is iffy, dry starting is a mistake, imo. But we're all allowed to make our own mistakes.

ski/hunt
11-10-2012, 04:40 PM
Starting your motor "dry" and then not replacing your impeller after 4 years is like Bull riding without health insurance!!
Both are things I just wouldn't do!

mikeg205
11-10-2012, 05:54 PM
Impeller should be changed every 100 hours or annually... as MC puts it...Blockage of the transmission cooler or a faulty raw water impeller are too-frequent causes of overheating.

running it dry will cause vanes to where causing less water to be pumped into cooling jacket. Rubber against metal no water or lubricant...heat... Impeller - $35, Engine work/replace $3K - $10K, replacing impeller seasonally or every 100 which ever comes first and not worrying about it....pricelesss.

JimN
11-10-2012, 06:47 PM
This is absolute misinformation. I start my boat all the time out of the water. When I winterize it at the end of the season the impeller is fine. I'm on the same impeller for 4 years now and it still looks like new.

It may look like new but I guarantee the vanes don't push back on the housing like they need to, in order to provide sufficient water flow rate. Having seen and replaced numbers well into the hundreds of impellers that were missing vanes, I'd rather be safe than cheap.

Look at it this way- what's the cost of an impeller and gasket vs the cost to repair the damage from one that lets you down when you least expect and least want it to?

wtrjock
11-10-2012, 06:50 PM
I agree with the priceless statement. I was dead in the middle of the lake this summer because I went cheap this year and didn't replace my impeller.

I will definitely replace it every year from now on. When our boats overheat...they just shutdown and kill all power to the motor.

Make sure you have a spare in the glove box also!

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

erkoehler
11-10-2012, 10:27 PM
It may look like new but I guarantee the vanes don't push back on the housing like they need to, in order to provide sufficient water flow rate. Having seen and replaced numbers well into the hundreds of impellers that were missing vanes, I'd rather be safe than cheap.

Look at it this way- what's the cost of an impeller and gasket vs the cost to repair the damage from one that lets you down when you least expect and least want it to?

I agree with Jim, replace it annually! When the impeller fails while the normal driver/owner is skiing and your buddy doesn't pay attention to the temp gauge you'll really regret not replacing that part for less than $50!

I guarantee the repairs will amount to a number greater than a case of impellers!!!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

JimN
11-10-2012, 10:35 PM
I agree with Jim, replace it annually! When the impeller fails while the normal driver/owner is skiing and your buddy doesn't pay attention to the temp gauge you'll really regret not replacing that part for less than $50!

I guarantee the repairs will amount to a number greater than a case of impellers!!!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

One of the biggest problems with impellers going bad is the fact that the ECT needs to be immersed in coolant and hot air isn't as good of a good conductor of heat as any liquid, so the engine can be badly overheated without showing an overheat on the gauge.

mikeg205
11-10-2012, 10:37 PM
One of the biggest problems with impellers going bad is the fact that the ECT needs to be immersed in coolant and hot air isn't as good of a good conductor of heat as any liquid, so the engine can be badly overheated without showing an overheat on the gauge.

'nuff said' - good point Jim...

GoneBoatN
11-10-2012, 11:29 PM
Impeller should be changed every 100 hours or annually... as MC puts it...Blockage of the transmission cooler or a faulty raw water impeller are too-frequent causes of overheating.

running it dry will cause vanes to where causing less water to be pumped into cooling jacket. Rubber against metal no water or lubricant...heat... Impeller - $35, Engine work/replace $3K - $10K, replacing impeller seasonally or every 100 which ever comes first and not worrying about it....pricelesss.

Funny thing is I notice my mastercraft manual (2010) says to change the impeller every 100hrs while the Indmar manual says to inspect every 100hrs and change every 2 years.

CantRepeat
11-11-2012, 08:22 AM
If you want to run YOUR boat while out of the water fine, do it. But suggesting that others do is extremely bad advice.

You cannot dispute the scientific facts of heating up rubber. Heating up the impeller(rubber) will change the molecular properties of the rubber. The thermal and physical effects, as Jim pointed out, will surely weaken it. So if you don't get a complete or partial failure, surely you will get lower water volume/pressure. Just because you can't see any damage does not mean that it hasn't already happened. Why take the chance? Is $30 bucks for a new one each year worth it? Is not changing it and wasting a motor worth it?

I'm not all that smart when it comes to science but it's pretty easy to see that heating up an impeller is never a good thing. Sure you might get away with it a few times, or forever. But at some point it will catch up to you.

JimN
11-11-2012, 10:31 AM
Funny thing is I notice my mastercraft manual (2010) says to change the impeller every 100hrs while the Indmar manual says to inspect every 100hrs and change every 2 years.

Have you ever seen an "Indmar dealer"? No, you see MasterCraft, Malibu, Supra/Moomba, Nautique and other names on the dealership. The boat may use Indmar drives but the manufacturer usually does the service training and is the first line when it comes to warranty coverage. By stating that replacement should be at 100 hours, MC is saying that it's better to be careful than lucky. Also, WRT boat owners who want to do their own service- how were they trained? The vast majority have no idea how their engine and its control system work, yet they steam ahead and do things to a boat that costs a whole lot more than their car(s). Do they know what to look for when inspecting an impeller? If they think having all of the vanes is the extent of this, they're asking for trouble. If they overheated, did they stop the repair at replacing the impeller and gasket (the gasket WAS changed, right?) or did they also inspect the whole exhaust system? If the engine overheated, there's a good chance that nothing was going through the rest of the engine or exhaust.

GoneBoatN
11-11-2012, 04:24 PM
Have you ever seen an "Indmar dealer"? No, you see MasterCraft, Malibu, Supra/Moomba, Nautique and other names on the dealership. The boat may use Indmar drives but the manufacturer usually does the service training and is the first line when it comes to warranty coverage. By stating that replacement should be at 100 hours, MC is saying that it's better to be careful than lucky. Also, WRT boat owners who want to do their own service- how were they trained? The vast majority have no idea how their engine and its control system work, yet they steam ahead and do things to a boat that costs a whole lot more than their car(s). Do they know what to look for when inspecting an impeller? If they think having all of the vanes is the extent of this, they're asking for trouble. If they overheated, did they stop the repair at replacing the impeller and gasket (the gasket WAS changed, right?) or did they also inspect the whole exhaust system? If the engine overheated, there's a good chance that nothing was going through the rest of the engine or exhaust.

Well, while I agree about the 100 hr (I personally do so as this is the amount of hours I tend to put on the boat in the course of the season and I put in a new one at the beginning of each season), the dealership affialted to the brand processes the warranty, the engine manufacture provides the warranty for the engine itself, not Mastercraft. Mastercraft may be the first point of contact, MC will be quick to push any engine warranty item to the engine manufacturer - rightfully so. When I had an issue with an oil leak (one of those so small of a leak it was a real PITA), it was Indmar who authorized the warranty work and told the dealer to pull the engine for testing.

IMO: I think most people are capable of inspecting and replacing an impeller, at least those that take the time to research the issue properly. It's almost equivalent to saying people are too stupid to change/inpect the air cleaner on thier automobile. Yes, some will make bad decisions to save a couple of bucks. Others will look at the cost of $35 as a minute expense in the grand scheme of boating. On the other hand if I put 110 hours on an impeller in a season, I would not change it until the beginning of the following season. Paying a trained mechanic's hourly shop rate of $200 to spend the time to change oil or an impeller is silly considering that I enjoy doing it myself.

Also, don't the engine manufacturers conduct the engine service/maintenance training not Mastercraft?

JimN
11-11-2012, 05:26 PM
Well, while I agree about the 100 hr (I personally do so as this is the amount of hours I tend to put on the boat in the course of the season and I put in a new one at the beginning of each season), the dealership affialted to the brand processes the warranty, the engine manufacture provides the warranty for the engine itself, not Mastercraft. Mastercraft may be the first point of contact, MC will be quick to push any engine warranty item to the engine manufacturer - rightfully so. When I had an issue with an oil leak (one of those so small of a leak it was a real PITA), it was Indmar who authorized the warranty work and told the dealer to pull the engine for testing.

Yes, some will make bad decisions to save a couple of bucks. Others will look at the cost of $35 as a minute expense in the grand scheme of boating. On the other hand if I put 110 hours on an impeller in a season, I would not change it until the beginning of the following season. Paying a trained mechanic's hourly shop rate of $200 to spend the time to change oil or an impeller is silly considering that I enjoy doing it myself.

Also, don't the engine manufacturers conduct the engine service/maintenance training not Mastercraft?

MC sells the engine as part of the package and is the first line WRT warranty coverage but neither MC nor Indmar pays full shop rate if the techs aren't trained. This is a multi-part way to get the dealers to send the techs for training and, from what I have read here since I arrived, this isn't working.

Who the he!! charges $200/hour? Tell me, so I can get a job there! When I was doing this, shop rates topped out at about $75-$85/hour, although that was in '01. However, there's nothing that would get me to pay $200/hr.

You wrote "IMO: I think most people are capable of inspecting and replacing an impeller, at least those that take the time to research the issue properly. It's almost equivalent to saying people are too stupid to change/inpect the air cleaner on thier automobile."

WRT "at least those that take the time to research the issue properly"- you may be a member of more than one forum or user group- asking a question that's easily found is rampant because people are too lazy to check for themselves. Sometimes, they'll end up at the forum or group because the search engine linked to it but NOT using a search engine is nothing, if not lazy. When trained service techs tell others what they have seen, heard and learned, there's a reason for it- they're trying to keep people from having the problems they had to fix. When someone boasts that they got four years from one impeller, it's piss poor logic to follow that recommendation when many others have posted actual or anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

As far as being too stupid to change/inspect the air filter on their car, look around for cars that have a big exhaust smudge on the rear bumper for your answer. More often, it's people who never learned that these things need to be checked and changed. I went out with someone who saw the check engine light on her dash but ignored it. Her dad or brother would have gladly checked it for her, but she didn't bother to ask what it meant. Book-smart but a biatch on wheels (her- it has nothing to do with cars). No oil pressure- cooked the engine.

MC may still do their own training- last time I talked to the head of service, he said they were doing theirs at the factory instead of Syracuse, IN. Their working arrangement has ended, AFAIK but the training was excellent.

GoneBoatN
11-11-2012, 06:34 PM
...Who the he!! charges $200/hour?...

My bad. $109 an hour on my last bill. It said 3.15 hours for the 100 hour service.

GoneBoatN
11-11-2012, 06:38 PM
Also, just too hard to tell the difference between a impeller that still has life on it vs one that is nearing it's end of life. On an older boat (I/O but some issue), I had to remove the impeller after only about 10 hours of use. I compared it against my old one and both looked like they had the same amount of "set". Felt like the same amount of flex. Just plain easier to spend the $35.

erkoehler
11-12-2012, 01:14 AM
$124/hr, couldn't imagine $200!

But techs salaries, training, tools, diagnostic equipment, etc get more expensive every season!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

JimN
11-12-2012, 01:39 AM
$124/hr, couldn't imagine $200!

But techs salaries, training, tools, diagnostic equipment, etc get more expensive every season!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Just out of curiosity, can you PM me with a general range of pay for marine techs? I'd like to see how that has changed since I did this.

mybobtail
11-12-2012, 02:37 AM
ok thanks for all the feedback. but i just want to clarify a couple things. the boat is 3 hours old and hasnt been sitting i used it the week before.and as to the dry start i dont actaully turn the motor over completley i just turn the key for a bout 2 seconds just to see if there is enough kick . i did it with my X14 for 2 years and had done it with my jetski prior to that.
i have attached a pic of the impeller. Dealer said maybe at the factory they might have done a few dry starts.anyway it has been replaced and all go for poets day .

jwp1504
11-12-2012, 04:13 AM
Hi Guys,

I have bought myself a 2000 x star and it doesnt have anywhere to hook a garden hose in to the motor, and research tells me that a fake-a-lake is the thing to use. So i went a bought one, hooked it up, turned the hose one, and started the engine.. But no water came out the exhaust..

Was i doing something wrong? Isn't water supposed to come out the exhaust??

I ran the boat for only 1-2 minutes but i know that is more than enough time to ruin an impeller!

JimN
11-12-2012, 08:11 AM
ok thanks for all the feedback. but i just want to clarify a couple things. the boat is 3 hours old and hasnt been sitting i used it the week before.and as to the dry start i dont actaully turn the motor over completley i just turn the key for a bout 2 seconds just to see if there is enough kick . i did it with my X14 for 2 years and had done it with my jetski prior to that.
i have attached a pic of the impeller. Dealer said maybe at the factory they might have done a few dry starts.anyway it has been replaced and all go for poets day .

A jet ski and a boat with a car engine are two completely different machines and a jet ski doesn't have a rubber impeller- it has a metal one.

If you crank it for two seconds, you aren't doing much to the impeller. If the impeller was destroyed, something else is going on- does the hour meter show 3 hours, or is that how much time YOU put on it? The factory doesn't do many dry starts- it would be absolutely irresponsible for them to do that and leave it to the dealer to handle this kind of abuse. Did you check the oil cooler, yet?

JimN
11-12-2012, 08:14 AM
Hi Guys,

I have bought myself a 2000 x star and it doesnt have anywhere to hook a garden hose in to the motor, and research tells me that a fake-a-lake is the thing to use. So i went a bought one, hooked it up, turned the hose one, and started the engine.. But no water came out the exhaust..

Was i doing something wrong? Isn't water supposed to come out the exhaust??

I ran the boat for only 1-2 minutes but i know that is more than enough time to ruin an impeller!

That's the reason I don't like them. I used one a few times and had major problems keeping it where it needed to be. It's a lot easier to attach a hose with a shut-off to the raw water inlet and KNOW you have water going to the engine. Any hardware store should have what you need, although I don't know what's available in Australia.

mikeg205
11-12-2012, 09:06 AM
I wasn't a believer...even with Tim(can't_repeat)...so one day when I was bored I spent $10 bucks to make the below. Even at idle the hose was unable to keep up...it did not drain instantly...but now a true believer...it was cheap..easy and 2 bottles of Blue Moon at your favorite watering hole.

mybobtail
11-12-2012, 09:18 AM
A jet ski and a boat with a car engine are two completely different machines and a jet ski doesn't have a rubber impeller- it has a metal one.

If you crank it for two seconds, you aren't doing much to the impeller. If the impeller was destroyed, something else is going on- does the hour meter show 3 hours, or is that how much time YOU put on it? The factory doesn't do many dry starts- it would be absolutely irresponsible for them to do that and leave it to the dealer to handle this kind of abuse. Did you check the oil cooler, yet?

hi jimn
yeh the boat says 3.5 hours I had been out on it the Friday before last 2days after I picked it up from the dealer.
mmm you got me thinking about the oil cooler.when I got it home I connected it to the hose and had abit of trouble getting the water to flow through it was like the end was blocked .i started it then the water started to come out the back as normal.how do I check the oil cooler

JimN
11-12-2012, 09:46 AM
hi jimn
yeh the boat says 3.5 hours I had been out on it the Friday before last 2days after I picked it up from the dealer.
mmm you got me thinking about the oil cooler.when I got it home I connected it to the hose and had abit of trouble getting the water to flow through it was like the end was blocked .i started it then the water started to come out the back as normal.how do I check the oil cooler

You remove the hose from the side closest to the hull (from a water flow perspective) and look or feel around for debris. Weeds, sticks, plastic bags, etc can all get in there and if they do, it blocks water from coming through. I have a set of hemostats that I bought at Radio Shack that works great for clearing out the stuff I found. Shop around for a better price.
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/89_2048_186/products_id/27705/n/Excel-Curved-Nose-Hemostat-7-1-2?utm_source=Google-Base&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Product-Feeds&source=google_ext&gclid=CKed09PIybMCFYZaMgodkysA4w

mikeg205
11-12-2012, 11:41 AM
You remove the hose from the side closest to the hull (from a water flow perspective) and look or feel around for debris. Weeds, sticks, plastic bags, etc can all get in there and if they do, it blocks water from coming through. I have a set of hemostats that I bought at Radio Shack that works great for clearing out the stuff I found. Shop around for a better price.
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/89_2048_186/products_id/27705/n/Excel-Curved-Nose-Hemostat-7-1-2?utm_source=Google-Base&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Product-Feeds&source=google_ext&gclid=CKed09PIybMCFYZaMgodkysA4w

hemostats? price will probably go up - big demand most likely in Colorado coming up... :D - sorry for the thread jack

mikeg205
11-12-2012, 11:42 AM
hi jimn
yeh the boat says 3.5 hours I had been out on it the Friday before last 2days after I picked it up from the dealer.
mmm you got me thinking about the oil cooler.when I got it home I connected it to the hose and had abit of trouble getting the water to flow through it was like the end was blocked .i started it then the water started to come out the back as normal.how do I check the oil cooler

Try backflushing as well by running water thru the other side.

JimN
11-12-2012, 11:55 AM
hemostats? price will probably go up - big demand most likely in Colorado coming up... :D - sorry for the thread jack

Buy several- give them as gifts.

madcityskier
11-12-2012, 02:10 PM
'nuff said' - good point Jim...

Well, maybe not quite nuff.

jwp1504
11-12-2012, 05:16 PM
although I don't know what's available in Australia.

Take is easy, we aren't a third world country!! Haha.

Yeah after using the fake a lake once i don't thing it'll be getting a start ever again!

thatsmrmastercraft
11-12-2012, 05:23 PM
Take is easy, we aren't a third world country!! Haha.

Yeah after using the fake a lake once i don't thing it'll be getting a start ever again!

Even if you were in a third world country, JimN is from Wisconsin (I believe) so he could identify.:rolleyes::D:D

mikeg205
11-12-2012, 07:25 PM
Even if you were in a third world country, JimN is from Wisconsin (I believe) so he could identify.:rolleyes::D:D

Ouch...lol... :) he's just over the border from me...Illinois is circling the drain...Wisconsin is getting it right... :D... How many WI governors are in jail right now... Illinois winning at 2 in at the same time... Jessie Jackson Jr will probably serve time too... that's poetic...Only in Illinois. :D now back to our thread.

If your run your motor dry...we don't want to hear about it... :) :) :) ;)

JimN
11-12-2012, 07:52 PM
Take is easy, we aren't a third world country!! Haha.

Yeah after using the fake a lake once i don't thing it'll be getting a start ever again!

I didn't mean it that way but you have to remember, Vegemite is from your place, not ours.

And what's the deal with the weird animals?

JimN
11-12-2012, 07:52 PM
Even if you were in a third world country, JimN is from Wisconsin (I believe) so he could identify.:rolleyes::D:D

How are the Golden Gomers doing this year?

mikeg205
11-12-2012, 07:58 PM
I didn't mean it that way but you have to remember, Vegemite is from your place, not ours.

And what's the deal with the weird animals?

lol....:headbang::headbang:

madcityskier
11-12-2012, 08:15 PM
Jim, where in WI? Getting out in Madison tomorrow.

mikeg205
11-12-2012, 08:22 PM
Jim, where in WI? Getting out in Madison tomorrow.

dang...got work...wanted to practice..counter rotating my shoulders... :( ...have a great time.

jwp1504
11-12-2012, 09:55 PM
I didn't mean it that way but you have to remember, Vegemite is from your place, not ours.

And what's the deal with the weird animals?

Haha. All good. Vegemite is good too!

Let's not turn this into a war of words. lol

JimN
11-12-2012, 10:02 PM
Haha. All good. Vegemite is good too!

Let's not turn this into a war of words. lol

I have heard varying reports about Vegemite.

You, and your words can't hurt me!:D

mikeg205
11-12-2012, 10:47 PM
I have heard varying reports about Vegemite.

You, and your words can't hurt me!:D

But watch out for that chunder.... vegemite chunder is lethal... :D...or would that be chundering vegemite....duck!

madcityskier
11-12-2012, 11:29 PM
dang...got work...wanted to practice..counter rotating my shoulders... :( ...have a great time.

I thought you weren't interested until December anyway?

CantRepeat
11-13-2012, 07:36 AM
I have heard varying reports about Vegemite.

You, and your words can't hurt me!:D

It's like putting axle grease on bread and trying to eat it. I can say with out a doubt it was the worst part of my 47 days in Australia.

mikeg205
11-13-2012, 08:34 AM
I thought you weren't interested until December anyway?

Interested.but can't go..too much going on in the next few weeks...until an opportunity in December...

mybobtail
11-13-2012, 10:27 AM
It's like putting axle grease on bread and trying to eat it. I can say with out a doubt it was the worst part of my 47 days in Australia.

Vegemite is best eaten with nice fresh bread butter and only a light covering of Vegemite
you don't smoother it like you do peanut butter.
also good on toast

mikeg205
11-13-2012, 11:01 AM
Vegemite is best eaten with nice fresh bread butter and only a light covering of Vegemite
you don't smoother it like you do peanut butter.
also good on toast

I chundered in my mouth a little... :D

GoneBoatN
11-13-2012, 11:43 AM
You can tell it is off season by reading various thread and noticing the strange off-topic directions they take. :D

mybobtail
11-13-2012, 11:44 AM
I chundered in my mouth a little... :D

yeh you blokes is USA are brought up soft you would get peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
where here in Oz we would get vegemite with out butter and sometimes without bread .we would eat straight from the jar. lol

CantRepeat
11-13-2012, 11:47 AM
Vegemite is best eaten with nice fresh bread butter and only a light covering of Vegemite
you don't smoother it like you do peanut butter.
also good on toast

It has no flavor, other then grease, and is best left in the package it came in. :D The Assuie Army uses it for lube in gears!!

CantRepeat
11-13-2012, 11:50 AM
yeh you blokes is USA are brought up soft you would get peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
where here in Oz we would get vegemite with out butter and sometimes without bread .we would eat straight from the jar. lol

From what I gathered, if you didn't grow up in North Queensland you're pretty soft yourself. :D Boy but can those Army guys drink and fight!! Loved every minute of my time out there. Well, except for the vegemite.

mikeg205
11-13-2012, 03:12 PM
Vegemite ( /ˈvɛdʒɨmaɪt/ vej-ə-myt)[1][2] is a dark brown Australian food paste made from yeast extract. It is a spread for sandwiches, toast, crumpets and cracker biscuits, and filling for pastries. It is similar to British, New Zealand, and South African Marmite, Australian Promite, Swiss Cenovis, and German Hefeextrakt.
Vegemite is made from used brewers' yeast extract, a by-product of beer manufacturing, various vegetables, wheat and spice additives. It is salty, slightly bitter, and umami or malty – similar to beef bouillon. The texture is smooth, and the product is a paste. It is not as intensely flavoured as British Marmite and it is less sweet than the New Zealand version of Marmite.

We're happy little Vegemites
As bright as bright can be.
We all enjoy our Vegemite
For breakfast, lunch, and tea.
Our mummies say we're growing stronger
Every single week,
Because we love our Vegemite
We all adore our Vegemite
It puts a rose in every cheek.

:D:D:D

thatsmrmastercraft
11-13-2012, 03:19 PM
How are the Golden Gomers doing this year?

The Gophers are 6-4 this year.....first time above .500 for a while. I forgot what you guys call your mascot.

mzimme
11-13-2012, 03:20 PM
ok thanks for all the feedback. but i just want to clarify a couple things. the boat is 3 hours old and hasnt been sitting i used it the week before.and as to the dry start i dont actaully turn the motor over completley i just turn the key for a bout 2 seconds just to see if there is enough kick . i did it with my X14 for 2 years and had done it with my jetski prior to that.
i have attached a pic of the impeller. Dealer said maybe at the factory they might have done a few dry starts.anyway it has been replaced and all go for poets day .

And some people didn't want to believe it was the impeller... 8p

To anyone that still dry starts their boat after seeing that impeller with 3 hours on it, I have to ask, why?

thatsmrmastercraft
11-13-2012, 03:23 PM
And some people didn't want to believe it was the impeller... 8p

To anyone that still dry starts their boat after seeing that impeller with 3 hours on it, I have to ask, why?

I suppose if someone really wanted to dry start their boat all the time, they could put a grease zerk in the raw water pump housing and fill their grease gun with water.:rolleyes:

XtwentyNot
11-13-2012, 05:02 PM
It seems as if the Dealers are using the growl of the engine (can't blame them!) to sell boats they should change the impellers on delivery to their customers.

JimN
11-13-2012, 06:52 PM
yeh you blokes is USA are brought up soft you would get peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
where here in Oz we would get vegemite with out butter and sometimes without bread .we would eat straight from the jar. lol

Not all of us got PB&J, some of us got dirt and we were happy to get it!:D

JimN
11-13-2012, 06:53 PM
I suppose if someone really wanted to dry start their boat all the time, they could put a grease zerk in the raw water pump housing and fill their grease gun with water.:rolleyes:

And the zerk would survive water, how? I can't even get them to survive with grease all over them.:mad:

shepherd
11-13-2012, 07:00 PM
Briefly cranking the engine to check your battery is dubious, at best. I did that once. Satisfied, I went to the lake. Put the boat in the water, not enough juice to crank it. I guess what little I had in the battery was used up in the driveway back home. :(

Thrall
11-13-2012, 07:49 PM
And some people didn't want to believe it was the impeller... 8p

To anyone that still dry starts their boat after seeing that impeller with 3 hours on it, I have to ask, why?

Cmon man!
That had to be ALOT of dry starts! Must've had the starter motor wired to the door chime on the front door of the dealership!
I don't doubt that running the impeller dry, repeated dry starts, etc will ruin an impeller and won't dispute those that won't crank the engine without having water flowing, but firing it up and letting it idle for a few seconds will not do that to an impeller with 3 hrs on it.

Okay now, need some sun and water or snow or something!

jwp1504
11-13-2012, 09:58 PM
Not all of us got PB&J, some of us got dirt and we were happy to get it!:D

I need say no more!!!

JimN
11-14-2012, 12:24 AM
I need say no more!!!

No! Your comeback is supposed to be, "You got dirt?"

mybobtail
11-14-2012, 08:42 AM
nah they talk funny up there . as to the army how tuff is that they use the vegimite for there grease and then they eat it

jwp1504
11-14-2012, 11:49 PM
No! Your comeback is supposed to be, "You got dirt?"

Haha. You got me!

Well back to the issue at hand.. (tried the fake-a-lake and had no water coming out the exhaust), I put the boat in the water yesterday and it didn't try and cook itself!

I definitely dodged a bullet there!!

CantRepeat
11-15-2012, 07:44 AM
Haha. You got me!

Well back to the issue at hand.. (tried the fake-a-lake and had no water coming out the exhaust), I put the boat in the water yesterday and it didn't try and cook itself!

I definitely dodged a bullet there!!

Not sure why anyone would use one since it's pretty easy to use the bucket method.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHR9bbPbwmM

jwp1504
11-15-2012, 07:54 PM
Not sure why anyone would use one since it's pretty easy to use the bucket method.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHR9bbPbwmM

Yeah i saw that the other day, i'll give that a crack next time for sure!

mikeg205
11-15-2012, 10:29 PM
Not sure why anyone would use one since it's pretty easy to use the bucket method.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHR9bbPbwmM


so easy and inexpensive to make....after watching Tim's video the MCOCD kicked in...

mybobtail
11-16-2012, 09:57 AM
ok so I take the boat out today didn't touch the ignition key until I had the boat in the water .and guess what the battery was flat some dickhead (me) left the ignition on acc with the blower and radio going.the nice man at the lake had a battery pack .so tried to start it not enough kick in battery pack.so off comes the trailer and in goes the 4x4. I lift up the seat and notice a lot of water near the battery.guess what the same dickhead forgot to put the bungplug in.i was lucky to find that under the engine where there was more water.anyway got it all going .and glad to inform you all the bilge pump is working fine.
so after all that had a goodday skiing even though I forgot to put on the suncream.
lucky I got vegimite

JimN
11-16-2012, 10:15 AM
ok so I take the boat out today didn't touch the ignition key until I had the boat in the water .and guess what the battery was flat some dickhead (me) left the ignition on acc with the blower and radio going.the nice man at the lake had a battery pack .so tried to start it not enough kick in battery pack.so off comes the trailer and in goes the 4x4. I lift up the seat and notice a lot of water near the battery.guess what the same dickhead forgot to put the bungplug in.i was lucky to find that under the engine where there was more water.anyway got it all going .and glad to inform you all the bilge pump is working fine.
so after all that had a goodday skiing even though I forgot to put on the suncream.
lucky I got vegimite

I'm going to post this in all caps, so it has a chance to be noticed and followed- DON'T JUMP START A BATTERY AND RUN THE ENGINE WHEN THE BATTERY IS STONE DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The alternator IS NOT made to handle that load and it will be damaged. The alternator is intended to recharge the battery after cranking and to run the accessories and nothing more (the factory installed ones, not some slammin' stereo and a shyte-load of lights and other stuff).

rtw_travel
11-16-2012, 10:52 AM
Not sure why anyone would use one since it's pretty easy to use the bucket method.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHR9bbPbwmM

Interesting video- i look forward to winterizing with a big bucket of anti freeze next year.

His last comment was 'you don't ever want to run your transmission when the boat is out of the water'. I'm new to mastercraft, but I would have thought that as long as the prop was clear of obstructions you could into forward or reverse. Am I missing something?

mikeg205
11-16-2012, 10:56 AM
Glad you haad a good - day... OZ is beautiful...some good music came from there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6oAFlPLGA8

vegemite - still does not look yummy....I guess we shouldn't talk we eat Velveeta... Yellow Vegemite?

JimN
11-16-2012, 11:11 AM
Interesting video- i look forward to winterizing with a big bucket of anti freeze next year.

His last comment was 'you don't ever want to run your transmission when the boat is out of the water'. I'm new to mastercraft, but I would have thought that as long as the prop was clear of obstructions you could into forward or reverse. Am I missing something?

The comment about the transmission would probably refer to "without anything going through the oil cooler". As long as the engine isn't in gear for any length of time and definitely not with any load, it's fine.

mikeg205
11-16-2012, 11:24 AM
Interesting video- i look forward to winterizing with a big bucket of anti freeze next year.

His last comment was 'you don't ever want to run your transmission when the boat is out of the water'. I'm new to mastercraft, but I would have thought that as long as the prop was clear of obstructions you could into forward or reverse. Am I missing something?

I would spray a bit of water on the cutlass bearing...just to wet it.. if it's going to be for a short time... of have some shoot water at it from a safe distance to keep it wet...my .02