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View Full Version : Help, I am an idiot


swardco
10-13-2012, 04:12 PM
Ever have a really bad day? I am having one of those! The worst part is all my issues are due to my own stupidity.

Boat: 1991 Prostar 190, Indmar 351, 1:1

Problem #1:

I have lost a piece of duck tape inside my oil pan! How you might ask? The suction tube on my Pella oil extractor had a small leak. What would an idiot do to fix that issue? Yep, you guessed it duck tape. What happened when the duck tape got hot while extracting hot oil? Yep, you guessed it. It slipped off as I pulled the tube out!

I pulled the dipstick tube, hoping that maybe it lodged in there. No dice!

Now what? Any clever ideas out there, short of pulling the engine and dropping the pan?


Problem #2:

Late in the season, I noticed some water in the bilge after skiing for an hour or so. Today while warming up the boat in the driveway, I found the source of the water. Now I need you guys to tell me just how bad this issue is. I apologize ahead of time, because I had a tough time taking a useful picture.

85367

So in the above picture, just above the transmission cooler and below the hose with the brass couplers, you see a circle that is not black. Photo below is zoomed in on that.

85368

You can pretty well see that this thing is rusty and has a pinhole up at the top. I have a steady stream of water out of that pinhole when running in the driveway.

So, what is that round thing? How bad is my issue?


Thanks for your input. I think I should walk away from my baby for a bit, before I do more damage.

1redTA
10-13-2012, 04:32 PM
the round thing is an engine freeze plug. You can take it out and replace it by tapping the new one in

barefoot
10-13-2012, 04:33 PM
The round thing is a freeze plug. When they cast the block, those holes are where the sand comes out. They plug the hole by putting a 'cap' in there. They are known as freeze plugs because when there is water left in the block after winterizing, those plugs should pop out to allow the frozen water to expand.

By the looks of your picture, that freeze plugs popped out at some point. Perhaps the hole was caused by a puncture when putting it back in. The good news is that everything is ok and you're probably not causing any damage.

Couple of options for repair. See if Skidim (or others along those lines) has a freeze plug. Pop that one out and replace it with the new one. Otherwise, I've heard others on the forum use a rubber stopper to plug the hole. You can get one from the hardware store.

mikeg205
10-13-2012, 04:39 PM
The round thing is a freeze plug... you can replace it. You can get them at NAPA... just gently pry out the old and insert new with RTV sealant. Looks like you'll have to remove the engine mount to get to it...which means check your engine alignment afters.

If you can get at it. However, you exhaust manifold is looking a little tired.

Looks like time for a new set of manifold....IMO

Regarding the duct tape...IMO it will hopefully get caught in your filter...but I am just guessing...leaving this one for the
experts.

Also, looks like your riser gaskets need replacement as well....the rusty residue on the manifold indicates this.

Nice winter project.

JDC
10-13-2012, 04:46 PM
The core plug (freeze plug) is a relatively easy fix.
Not sure what to tell you about the duct tape in the pan. That's not good.

strad
10-13-2012, 05:01 PM
Well I have not been inside my 351 yet, but having been inside several other engines, I can tell you I would not trust that a large piece of tape inside the pan would go to a good place. Largest thing I have found inside an engine was a 3-inch piece of pan gasket (on my BMW M20B25) and it was down in the sump right next to the oil pump pickup. That explained why the engine leaked oil badly when it was running and when the car was parked on a hill lol.

FrankSchwab
10-13-2012, 05:49 PM
Unfortunately, the duct tape is likely to get sucked onto the oil pickup - if there's a screen, it'll get stopped there and probably not cause a problem, unless it completely covers the screen or inlet, in which case the engine will die a horrible death. If it gets sucked into the oil pump, it'll get sent to the oil filter and everything will be hunky-dory, unless it gets hung up in the oil passages into/out of the oil pump, in which case the engine will die a horrible death.

I had a friend who had this problem on his motorcycle - slid in a corner, and ground a hole in the sidecase. Tried to fix it with duct tape on the outside/inside of the hole, which lasted a good mile or two before the hot oil dissolved the adhesive, and he had a piece of duct tape floating around inside his engine. He ignored it, and the bike lasted another 20000 miles until he sold it. So, a horrible death isn't a certainty.

swardco
10-13-2012, 10:05 PM
Here is one idea I will try. I figure at the moment that the tape is sitting just below the opening for the dipstick tube. I will try to clean out my shop vac, then put a small tube on the end and see what I can suck up. Maybe I get lucky and suck it up.

I'll let you know if that works....

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
10-13-2012, 10:16 PM
If that doesn't work, you can pull the timing cover and you'll have a good 3-4" of clearance to fish it out with a wire coat hanger, it shouldn't take to long to take apart and your local auto parts will have all the gaskets for reassemble.

madcityskier
10-13-2012, 10:38 PM
Here is one idea I will try. I figure at the moment that the tape is sitting just below the opening for the dipstick tube. I will try to clean out my shop vac, then put a small tube on the end and see what I can suck up. Maybe I get lucky and suck it up.

I'll let you know if that works....

Just don't attach that tube with duct tape.

TX Wind
10-14-2012, 12:30 AM
Looks like you've got a bad freeze plug for sure. My experience with freeze plugs would tell me you're gonna have to pull an engine mount to get that one back in. That will mean you have to realign the tranny.

I'd definitely get that tape out of there. It's most likely going to suck up onto the oil filter screen. Not good considering ski boats tend to run at pretty high rpm a lot.

As for your exhaust manifolds, braze them with bronze rod. You can get it at most parts stores or harware stores. JB Weld sucks and actually costs more. If you braze them you will get a bit more life from those manifolds before you have to replace them.

IMHO....if you have what it takes to pull the engine....I'd do that. You've got enough issues going on to make it worth your while. It's really not that hard to do.

Worthing skier
10-14-2012, 03:34 AM
Hi ,

Drain the engine oil , take off the easy drain hose attachment from the sump pan , get a mirror and a torch and have a look to see if you can see the tape, also have a fish around with a bit of welding rod to see if you can find it .
Odds are on it will be near the oil drain hole as when the oil drains out it will be dragged towards it.
If you do not find it first time , refill sump and do the process again it.

Good luck

Kevin

mikeg205
10-14-2012, 12:28 PM
torch = light? I hope... :D

Kyle
10-14-2012, 03:42 PM
You need to get the tape out of the pan.

You can lower the pan while in the boat but the tranny will need to be removed.


The tape could cause extreme engine failure and thousands of $$$. The oil pump pick up is very fine mesh. It's almost like window screen but metal. The tape will not pass through it so it will basically cause the engine to starve for oil.

swardco
10-14-2012, 08:33 PM
Update: Miracles do happen!

My first attempt was a really dumb idea. The shop vac idea had no hope.

My next thought was exactly what somebody suggested above. I pulled the drain plug and poured some oil in (about a quart). Waited for it to drain out. Made a little hook out of some wire and went fishing.

Amazingly, I immediately hooked my duck tape!

85409

Masterfull
10-14-2012, 09:09 PM
Nice job retrieving the duct tape.... If you can't replace that freeze plug with engine mount in place, you may be able to pop a rubber expansion plug in there... They are available at most auto part stores and are very easy to use... That rust on the manifold appears to be comming from the exhaust elbow on top of the manifold and dripping down the side..... I would replace the manifold to elbow gaskets right away... If these gaskets are leaking on the outside, chances are good that they are leaking on the inside and may let water into cylinders through an open exhaust valve while engine in not running.... This could "hydrolock" the engine and lead to must more costly repairs.... Sorry to get long on you just thinking of your best interest....

jgraham37128
10-14-2012, 10:29 PM
I would go strait to the store and buy a lottery ticket! That is a miracle and wow that was a big piece of duct tape.

mikeg205
10-14-2012, 10:40 PM
Congrats on an easy solution......no wI hope you kicked back and had few cold ones...

swardco
10-15-2012, 04:02 PM
Ok so here is the what's next list:

1. Pull the exhaust risers and at a minimum, replace the riser to manifold gaskets.
2. When I have the risers off, inspect and see if the risers need replacement.
3. Possibly replace exhaust manifolds?

I'll start a new thread, but will start the questions here.

1. What am I looking at to decide either my risers or manifolds need to be replaced?
2. Looks like roughly $600 for a full kit from someplace in NC. Mfg = Osco. Is this about right?

JDC
10-15-2012, 04:09 PM
Update: Miracles do happen!

My first attempt was a really dumb idea. The shop vac idea had no hope.

My next thought was exactly what somebody suggested above. I pulled the drain plug and poured some oil in (about a quart). Waited for it to drain out. Made a little hook out of some wire and went fishing.

Amazingly, I immediately hooked my duck tape!Congratulations! :toast:

Worthing skier
10-15-2012, 04:28 PM
Hi

Thats great news , good to read you were thinking along the same lines as me .

1redTA
10-15-2012, 04:39 PM
well played, sir

thatsmrmastercraft
10-15-2012, 05:13 PM
22 posts and no one said anything about the core plug not being brass? C'mon man.

swardco
10-15-2012, 05:19 PM
So, why isn't it brass???

I noticed on Skidim that they only sell brass plugs.

Since it isn't brass I assume there must be steel core plugs available somewhere, and the PO had it replaced with a steel plug????

So, how do I pull that thing out? I was going to try to drill a hole in the middle and put a coat hanger hook in there to pull it out? Is that going to work? Is it just friction holding it in?

thatsmrmastercraft
10-15-2012, 05:30 PM
So, why isn't it brass???

I noticed on Skidim that they only sell brass plugs.

Since it isn't brass I assume there must be steel core plugs available somewhere, and the PO had it replaced with a steel plug????

So, how do I pull that thing out? I was going to try to drill a hole in the middle and put a coat hanger hook in there to pull it out? Is that going to work? Is it just friction holding it in?

Coat hanger won't be strong enough. A cotter pin puller works sometimes. Need to use a little caution not to knock it in when you are working on it. Marine engines are supposed to have brass so they don't rust and end up like yours. Perhaps a previous owner replaced it with steel?

TX Wind
10-15-2012, 06:11 PM
Ok so here is the what's next list:

1. Pull the exhaust risers and at a minimum, replace the riser to manifold gaskets.
2. When I have the risers off, inspect and see if the risers need replacement.
3. Possibly replace exhaust manifolds?

I'll start a new thread, but will start the questions here.

1. What am I looking at to decide either my risers or manifolds need to be replaced?
2. Looks like roughly $600 for a full kit from someplace in NC. Mfg = Osco. Is this about right?

Yes....600 is correct. When you get the exhaust off, you can blow air up the exhaust ports. If air comes out the water ports, you have a leak. You can also get a flat plate and some gasket material and block off the riser hole, then pressure up the water side and watch for leaks. 15-20psi should be more than enough. Also...usually the risers are good in my experience. It's the manifolds that go bad. If you need risers though, I've got like 3 of em laying on a shelf.

TX Wind
10-15-2012, 06:15 PM
So, why isn't it brass???

I noticed on Skidim that they only sell brass plugs.

Since it isn't brass I assume there must be steel core plugs available somewhere, and the PO had it replaced with a steel plug????

So, how do I pull that thing out? I was going to try to drill a hole in the middle and put a coat hanger hook in there to pull it out? Is that going to work? Is it just friction holding it in?


I usually take a flat head near the top and tap it until the plug pivots. Be careful though. It can get knocked in there real easy. Once it pivots, I pull it with pliers. Drilling a hole in it and hooking it works to but they are in there pretty tight.

swardco
10-16-2012, 10:19 PM
Since I am getting such great help here, I'll post stuff when it works.

Here is my core plug removal tool. Worked well for me so maybe it will help someone else.

85537

The hook is just an eye bolt, bent so I could work it in the hole

My procedure:

1. Drill a hole in the plug.
2. Enlarge the hole with a screwdriver.
3. Work my hook in to that hole.
4. Then just slip the bolt through my bar and tighten until plug pops out.
5. The red bar is pushing against the engine block.

mikeg205
10-16-2012, 10:25 PM
Since I am getting such great help here, I'll post stuff when it works.

Here is my core plug removal tool. Worked well for me so maybe it will help someone else.

85537

The hook is just an eye bolt, bent so I could work it in the hole

My procedure:

1. Drill a hole in the plug.
2. Enlarge the hole with a screwdriver.
3. Work my hook in to that hole.
4. Then just slip the bolt through my bar and tighten until plug pops out.
5. The red bar is pushing against the engine block.

Nice..will have to save this thread now... :)

thatsmrmastercraft
10-16-2012, 11:29 PM
I imagine that worked rather well. :toast: