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willyt
10-03-2012, 11:43 PM
consisting just of burns. I'll start:

jim lehrer = replacement refs

hope obama brought a desk, chair and pen, he just got schooled.

it was way past lehrer's bedtime

at least mrs obama will get a good performance tonight

romney's smile reminded me of that old ice cream guy's smile on family guy

CantRepeat
10-03-2012, 11:59 PM
consisting just of burns. I'll start:

jim lehrer = replacement refs

hope obama brought a desk, chair and pen, he just got schooled.

it was way past lehrer's bedtime

at least mrs obama will get a good performance tonight

romney's smile remind me of that old ice cream guy's smile on family guy

Oh remarkably lacking tonight... Ron Paul!!!!

LYNRDSKYNRD
10-04-2012, 12:35 AM
Agreed Romney schooled Obama. Looks like not ever having to answer tough questions and actually defend your record hasn't served Pres. O very well.

I actually liked Jim Lehrer....he reminded me of a good ref, I forgot he was there most of the time and watched the game/debate :)

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

thatsmrmastercraft
10-04-2012, 12:40 AM
Agreed Romney schooled Obama. Looks like not ever having to answer tough questions and actually defend your record hasn't served Pres. O very well.


Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Obama may have been reading from the teleprompter for too long???

My hat's off to Romney for a job well done. I did not expect him to keep up with Obama, let alone have Obama backpedaling and evading questions.

93Prostar190
10-04-2012, 05:51 AM
Sadly, Romney did do well .... Which I like but usually the 2nd debate will allow O to make his points and come back ... The result is that voters will remember the more recent debates. I am a Ryan fan so I hope he does well against Biden.

Let's hope Mitt has more for debate 2 but historically the pendulum swings in the 2nd debate. I almost feel like the Dems took a dive on purpose for this first one. It was too easy. They drew Mitt out.

I hope I am wrong!

j2nh
10-04-2012, 06:00 AM
Obama is out matched and even though Obama will make corrections for the second debate I see no reason that Romney won't continue to come out on top. Obama looks uncomfortable, he doesn't want to be up there and he is certainly out of his element when he has to talk specifics. His character is one of a minister, he talks people listen and don't question. Tough to change your character in a couple of weeks. It reminded me of the time the Republicans and Obama sat down to discuss Obamacare. Ryan lectured Obama and Obama folded. His advantage then was he was also the moderator and was able to shut Ryan down.
Ryan will school Biden.

mikeg205
10-04-2012, 07:46 AM
Romney and Ryan have accomplishments under their belt so they can speak from their heart. Obama has accomplished nothing and has to dance around the facts. I can't wait to see the Ryan/Biden debate...oh what will SNL do with that. It will be interesting to watch Ryan dissect Biden.

mzimme
10-04-2012, 08:16 AM
Romney and Ryan have accomplishments under their belt so they can speak from their heart. Obama has accomplished nothing and has to dance around the facts. I can't wait to see the Ryan/Biden debate...oh what will SNL do with that. It will be interesting to watch Ryan dissect Biden.

I'm excited for that one too... it's not even going to be close.

Sullivan
10-04-2012, 09:27 AM
Sadly, Romney did do well .... Which I like but usually the 2nd debate will allow O to make his points and come back ... The result is that voters will remember the more recent debates. I am a Ryan fan so I hope he does well against Biden.

Let's hope Mitt has more for debate 2 but historically the pendulum swings in the 2nd debate. I almost feel like the Dems took a dive on purpose for this first one. It was too easy. They drew Mitt out.

I hope I am wrong!

How in the hell can Obama win a debate. His record sucks! No one can win on that kind of a history. He's so flawed on every single subject. It a no win situation.

Mitt cleaned house last night and I feel great about it. I was feeling pretty in the dumps the last few weeks watching the poll numbers drop. It saddens me to think that there are actually people still willing to vote for this guy. He has no clue what kind of damage he is doing to our country.

LYNRDSKYNRD
10-04-2012, 09:37 AM
He has no clue what kind of damage he is doing to our country.

I think he does know.

milkmania
10-04-2012, 10:13 AM
Obama grinned like the Cheshire Cat from Alice in Wonderland when Jim Lehrer first mentioned "obamacare", it resembled more of an ego boost than anything...
Body language is a natural action, and people resort to their natural actions (safe zone) when encountering difficult situations and by Obama not wanting to make eye contact..... That tells me a lot about his character.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-04-2012, 10:20 AM
How in the hell can Obama win a debate. His record sucks! No one can win on that kind of a history. He's so flawed on every single subject. It a no win situation.

Mitt cleaned house last night and I feel great about it. I was feeling pretty in the dumps the last few weeks watching the poll numbers drop. It saddens me to think that there are actually people still willing to vote for this guy. He has no clue what kind of damage he is doing to our country.

Exactly the same place I was. The outcome of that debate really pumped me up that there is a real chance to get Obama out of office.

willyt
10-04-2012, 10:54 AM
a kicked arse is covered under obamacare, right?

GT500 MC
10-04-2012, 11:02 AM
That's funny. Problem is Romney will repeal Obamacare the minute he's sworn into office. Would that then make Obama uninsured?? He's at least insured for the next couple of months.

Kyle
10-04-2012, 11:12 AM
He has no clue what kind of damage he is doing to our country.

I think he does know.


Oh he knows exactly what he is doing. He is probably a mole for or from some other country.


He can't decide on his religion and can not show a birth certificate that is not fake.

LYNRDSKYNRD
10-04-2012, 11:17 AM
That's funny. Problem is Romney will repeal Obamacare the minute he's sworn into office. Would that then make Obama uninsured?? He's at least insured for the next couple of months.


Don't worry about Obama and all the washington politicians they are not under Obamacare, it's not good enough for them, they have their own insurance. Obamacare is for us common people:rolleyes:

GT500 MC
10-04-2012, 11:18 AM
I'm not at all into politics but I have 3 kids (13, 10, and 9-years) and I wanted them to see what all goes into an election and how we decide our President, etc. So I had them watch the debate last night and all I found myself doing was explaining the discrepancies in each of the candidate's stories. Very disheartening. And kids get it. Most of their questions are very slanted to how it pertains to our family, but they still get it.
I think we need to have a panel of kids ask the questions for the debate, not a moderator (no offense Jim Lehrer). The kids would ask the tough questions that really pertain to the general consensus. There, my mini-rant is over

Kyle
10-04-2012, 11:31 AM
a kicked arse is covered under obamacare, right?

There is a clause in that plan

Article XII in the plan, Section 7, Line 4: states that any kind of kicked A$$ will be covered by the government and the government will then tax the folks who make something of themselves. Therefore there is No Charges for the kicked A$$.

It also states

Article XII, Section 8, line 1, that any kind of condition that is a result from getting ones A$$ kicked will be expunged from their medical records to eliminate any pre existing conditions in the future.



Hope this clears up any questions guys.

LouisvilleFan
10-04-2012, 12:28 PM
85035
My take on the debate!

thatsmrmastercraft
10-04-2012, 12:35 PM
85035
My take on the debate!

:uglyhamme:uglyhamme:uglyhamme

bobx1
10-04-2012, 01:02 PM
.....Obama has accomplished nothing and has to dance around the facts......

So here is the bigger question (and I do agree with your statement).

How can close to half of the entire voting poplulation of the greatest country in the world even consider re-electing Obama? How are the polls even close, given his track record?

I think most people will admit that Romney has very little (if any) charisma and can appear to be a wet noodle but come on, this race should not be close given Obama's performance for the last 3.5 years.

My biggest disappointment in this whole mess is that half of the voters in this country cannot do simple math and read because if they could, Obama would be packing his bags right now. :mad:

captain planet
10-04-2012, 01:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDQsI...layer_embedded

Here is a reality check about the debates.

As for the debate last night.....it is 40 minutes that I will never be able to get back. It was funny to see how many times they both said, "You'll see we have similar views on this", because they are basically the same. mitt obomney said a lot without saying anything at all and obama was caught off guard. It would have been nice to see obomney play the rules instead of just talking whenever he saw fit.

They both talked about balancing the federal budget as if it is attainable, which it isn't. It isn't even close to being able to be balanced. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jboTeS9Okak Even if this video is off by 20%, it is still something that is out of control.

And, if there ever was a year that a third voice should have been on stage, it is this year. Gary Johnson would have torn those two puppets up last night.

Thrall
10-04-2012, 01:07 PM
My biggest disappointment in this whole mess is that half of the voters in this country cannot do simple math and read because if they could, Obama would be packing his bags right now. :mad:

That's 'cause the half that can't do math or read are not wanting to give up the gubmint cheese. (Someone should clue them in that they'll still get the cheese even by voting for Romney. We can't reform the country that quick and kick the dead beats to the curb instantly.)
It's teh promise of MORE cheese that keeps them comng back!

captain planet
10-04-2012, 01:08 PM
So here is the bigger question (and I do agree with your statement).

How can close to half of the entire voting poplulation of the greatest country in the world even consider re-electing Obama? How are the polls even close, given his track record?

I think most people will admit that Romney has very little (if any) charisma and can appear to be a wet noodle but come on, this race should not be close given Obama's performance for the last 3.5 years.

My biggest disappointment in this whole mess is that half of the voters in this country cannot do simple math and read because if they could, Obama would be packing his bags right now. :mad:

the same reason this is possible.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/missouris-akin-left-for-dead-on-comeback-trail/article/2509741#.UG3CJ5jA9yE

_fng_
10-04-2012, 01:29 PM
How can close to half of the entire voting poplulation of the greatest country in the world even consider re-electing Obama? How are the polls even close, given his track record?

Some people have different priorities when assessing candidates. For myself, I think environmentalism is important (yeah yeah liberal) and vote accordingly. I know others who feel like women's rights are important and vote accordingly.

Obviously this election is going to won (or lost) according to who can spin the current economic situation in their favor cause it is the primary voting point for most people.

GT500 MC
10-04-2012, 01:35 PM
Some people have different priorities when assessing candidates. For myself, I think environmentalism is important (yeah yeah liberal) and vote accordingly. I know others who feel like women's rights are important and vote accordingly.

Obviously this election is going to won (or lost) according to who can spin the current economic situation in their favor cause it is the primary voting point for most people.

This statement is so true. And what you find is that certain points by a candidate may be good for you personally in the short-term, but maybe not so good for the country long-term. Or vice versa. Let's face it--if you're unemployed than unemployment for you is 100%, not the national average of 8%ish. That becomes a hotter button for you.

Will be an interesting next couple of months for this country.

willyt
10-04-2012, 02:14 PM
Some people have different priorities when assessing candidates. For myself, I think environmentalism is important (yeah yeah liberal)

texas? liberal? i didnt think you people existed?

willyt
10-04-2012, 02:16 PM
and... and... you have a Wisconsin W as your avatar. i'm more confused right now than jim lehrer was last night!

captain planet
10-04-2012, 03:02 PM
and... and... you have a Wisconsin W as your avatar. i'm more confused right now than jim lehrer was last night!

He had no control over that last night.

Skipper
10-04-2012, 03:37 PM
This country is FUBAR! The election system is just as corrupt as in war torn, third world dumps. Sad truth is that there are not enough intelligent voters to allow Romney to win. We are doomed to another four years of liberal garbage running our nation into ruin. It would be much better if the debates were more like the UFC!

GT500 MC
10-04-2012, 03:38 PM
This country is FUBAR! The election system is just as corrupt as in war torn, third world dumps. Sad truth is that there are not enough intelligent voters to allow Romney to win. We are doomed to another four years of liberal garbage running our nation into ruin. It would be much better if the debates were more like the UFC!

With no refs...:D

thatsmrmastercraft
10-04-2012, 03:47 PM
This statement is so true. And what you find is that certain points by a candidate may be good for you personally in the short-term, but maybe not so good for the country long-term. Or vice versa. Let's face it--if you're unemployed than unemployment for you is 100%, not the national average of 8%ish. That becomes a hotter button for you.

Will be an interesting next couple of months for this country.

You do realize that number is calculated after Obama removed all the unemployed who were classified as no longer looking for a job several months ago, right?

GT500 MC
10-04-2012, 03:52 PM
You do realize that number is calculated after Obama removed all the unemployed who were classified as no longer looking for a job several months ago, right?

That's exactly my point. Spinning the numbers.

DemolitionMan
10-04-2012, 03:58 PM
There is a clause in that plan

Article XII in the plan, Section 7, Line 4: states that any kind of kicked A$$ will be covered by the government and the government will then tax the folks who make something of themselves. Therefore there is No Charges for the kicked A$$.

It also states

Article XII, Section 8, line 1, that any kind of condition that is a result from getting ones A$$ kicked will be expunged from their medical records to eliminate any pre existing conditions in the future.



Hope this clears up any questions guys.

.........................

thatsmrmastercraft
10-04-2012, 04:10 PM
.........................

................

mzimme
10-04-2012, 04:46 PM
bahaha

Footin
10-04-2012, 05:05 PM
I wonder if Obama Care will cover the Arse Kickin he got last night?

Sullivan
10-04-2012, 07:45 PM
Some people have different priorities when assessing candidates. For myself, I think environmentalism is important (yeah yeah liberal) and vote accordingly. I know others who feel like women's rights are important and vote accordingly.

Obviously this election is going to won (or lost) according to who can spin the current economic situation in their favor cause it is the primary voting point for most people.

No offense but I too care for the environment and womens rights. Where the hell did you come up with the idea that republicans don't care about these issues. This is a perfect example of how the Dems throw up this smoke and BS to take away from a true and real issue. This is nothing more than a made up bunch of crap!

DemolitionMan
10-04-2012, 08:38 PM
No surprise, Biden says Obama won the presidential debate

Was Vice President Joe Biden watching the same debate as the rest of America tonight?

In a post-debate video posted on the Organizing for America website just after the debate, Biden told supporters, ”It’s a good night tonight, folks.”

“If you just finished watching the debate like I did, I’m sure you’re as proud of President Obama as I am,” Biden went on to say, noting the president did a great job making the choice clear between the candidates.

But according to a CBS flash poll released a little less than an hour after the debate, only 22 percent of undecided Americans polled thought President Obama won the debate, while 32 percent thought neither candidate won. A majority, 46 percent, thought Romney won.

The vice president said Obama laid out “specific, concrete plans” for helping the middle class, keeping jobs in the U.S. and hiring more math and science teachers. Biden called it showing a commitment to moving forward, blaming “failed policies” of the past for the current economic situation, again ignoring the debt increases under the Obama administration.

GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s plan, according to Biden, was “fundamentally different.” The vice president accused Romney of creating a budget that would give tax cuts to the wealthy but increase taxes for the middle class. In response to Romney’s plan to repeal Obamacare, Biden said the former governor did not have an alternative plan that would provide for those with pre-existing conditions.

Yet again one of the main focuses of the Obama administration’s attacks was that another financial meltdown would result from Romney’s election. Biden alluded to the financial situation that faced Obama when he took office and he promised that that he and Obama would not let that happen again, neglecting to mention that the economy has gotten progressively worse over the past four years, not better.

At the end of his talk, Biden encouraged viewers to stay involved in the Democratic campaign and tell their friends to vote.

“But most of all, I think I want to say on behalf of the President, thank you for vouching for us, for putting your reputations on the line for us, for believing, as the president does and I do, that America’s best days are ahead of us,” he said.

Biden is right. America’s best days will come once Obama is out of office.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
10-04-2012, 09:02 PM
Al Gore is coming to Obama's defense and blaming Denver's high altitude for the president's dismal debate performance. Really?!? The left is really stretching and trying to cover for Obama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyrWDf-Ql-c&feature=youtube_gdata_player

mdskier
10-04-2012, 09:05 PM
That's funny. Problem is Romney will repeal Obamacare the minute he's sworn into office. Would that then make Obama uninsured?? He's at least insured for the next couple of months.


I hope you realize Romney cannot repeal Obamacare the minute he gets in office. It still takes a bill in congress to repeal the law and the president would then have to sign the repeal into law. Which is why even if the republicans gain control of both houses, if Obama is re-elected, the congress cannot repeal Obamacare because the president would veto it.

You may not like everything Romney believes and you may think that Romney and Obama are essentially the same. But, they are not. Romney does not want to "fundamentally change this country" as Obama does and is trying to do. If you don't vote at all you are still voting for more of Obama. Not making a choice is still making a choice. You can lament all you want about a third candidate but there is not one, deal with it!

_fng_
10-04-2012, 09:15 PM
No offense but I too care for the environment and womens rights. Where the hell did you come up with the idea that republicans don't care about these issues. This is a perfect example of how the Dems throw up this smoke and BS to take away from a true and real issue. This is nothing more than a made up bunch of crap!

Putting an end to the EPA, reducing environmental regulations, and only allowing abortion in certain situations do not align with my voting priorities hence I use my vote to support the candidate I feel will address my concerns. Obviously I'm the minority here with some of these things but don't worry my vote will not do much for the incumbent in Texas.

Maybe it's wishful/delusional thinking because neither candidate has made much of an effort to address global environmental concerns.

Sullivan
10-04-2012, 10:03 PM
I am sorry but abortion has nothing to do with Womens Rights. Its a moral issue.

The EPA is out of control and needs to be totally dismantled and a new system put in place to regulate things on a realalistic level.

DemolitionMan
10-04-2012, 10:11 PM
It is hard to have an EPA when are economy crashes.

CantRepeat
10-04-2012, 10:14 PM
I am sorry but abortion has nothing to do with Womens Rights. Its a moral issue.



I disagree. But more over it has to do with individual rights. You can not regulate morality nor should you try.

Dino Don
10-04-2012, 11:04 PM
I think he does know.

I Agree!!!!

DemolitionMan
10-05-2012, 12:03 AM
:d:d:d

Sullivan
10-05-2012, 12:53 AM
Cantrepeat,
“If you can’t protect life then how can you protect liberty?”

You know where this came from. http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/abortion/

Ryan
10-05-2012, 08:48 AM
I disagree. But more over it has to do with individual rights. You can not regulate morality nor should you try.

Abortion has to do with both individual rights AND morality. They are inseparable.

Please show me a law that isn't a legislated instance of morality. We collectively regulate morality all the time with age limits on liquor consumption, movie ratings, assisted suicide.... there is a pretty long list. All laws deal with morality. Morality is the process of choosing right and wrong and is at the core of all laws that protect you from others, protect others from you, and protect you from yourself.

The variable is choosing whose/which moral value system to use. I suspect that's the real challenge on the subject. Simplified, there are two groups who don't want the other's morality imposed on them.

73blue
10-05-2012, 10:09 AM
You can not regulate morality nor should you try.

I agree to a point. In reality, though, murder is a moral issue, stealing is a moral issue, child abuse is a moral issue. We have laws and regulations because some don't have the morals that prevent them from harming other people. In regards to abortion, it comes down to what you believe about the fetus. Is it an innocent victim or a lifeless mass? If it has life, then it has rights (ie right to life). These rights should be protected by law, regardless of the circumstances that brought about that life, because there are some that do not share those morals and would victimize that life.

Sorry didnt mean to threadjack. I am also a single issue voter if you couldnt tell.

mikeg205
10-05-2012, 10:11 AM
I recorded the debate and was only able to watch it for 20 minutes... I dug around my brain and after clearing away the cobwebs I remember how wonderful things were going to be after Obama's diatribes. - Nothing improved, more people on food stamps..lame economy, millions of people just giving up on looking for work and the country is more divided than ever.

Half of the country is not paying any taxes and the people who work and got the opportunity to make some real money keep getting hammered.

What amazes me is that most our leaders went to the best schools, many were in the right place to act on an opportunity to give them enough spotlight to get noticed - both blue and red.

Unfortunately the electorate votes for personal reasons. So consider the candidates on who can provide the greater good. A vote for Obama accelerates us toward a Greek type meltdown, a vote or Romney will slow that.

Don't forget all 435 house seats are up for grabs. Our country is in the crapper and the D.C. is out of control and all the members are out stumping to get re-elected and "not-working".

The debate are a joke. The Ryan/Biden debate will be entertaining....Biden is going to be toast regardless if you like him or not. Ryan is much smarter than Biden from any objective perspective.

Sorry for the diatribe I can go on and on...once again is politics not logic and a majority of the electorate not "knowing" who they should vote for as opposed to what will benefit themselves.
:(

captain planet
10-05-2012, 10:22 AM
Abortion has to do with both individual rights AND morality. They are inseparable.

Please show me a law that isn't a legislated instance of morality. We collectively regulate morality all the time with age limits on liquor consumption, movie ratings, assisted suicide.... there is a pretty long list. All laws deal with morality. Morality is the process of choosing right and wrong and is at the core of all laws that protect you from others, protect others from you, and protect you from yourself.

The variable is choosing whose/which moral value system to use. I suspect that's the real challenge on the subject. Simplified, there are two groups who don't want the other's morality imposed on them.

It isn't the governments job to protect you from yourself. That very notion under minds true liberty and freedom.

captain planet
10-05-2012, 10:30 AM
I recorded the debate and was only able to watch it for 20 minutes... I dug around my brain and after clearing away the cobwebs I remember how wonderful things were going to be after Obama's diatribes. - Nothing improved, more people on food stamps..lame economy, millions of people just giving up on looking for work and the country is more divided than ever.

Half of the country is not paying any taxes and the people who work and got the opportunity to make some real money keep getting hammered.

What amazes me is that most our leaders went to the best schools, many were in the right place to act on an opportunity to give them enough spotlight to get noticed - both blue and red.

Unfortunately the electorate votes for personal reasons. So consider the candidates on who can provide the greater good. A vote for Obama accelerates us toward a Greek type meltdown, a vote or Romney will slow that.

Don't forget all 435 house seats are up for grabs. Our country is in the crapper and the D.C. is out of control and all the members are out stumping to get re-elected and "not-working".

The debate are a joke. The Ryan/Biden debate will be entertaining....Biden is going to be toast regardless if you like him or not. Ryan is much smarter than Biden from any objective perspective.

Sorry for the diatribe I can go on and on...once again is politics not logic and a majority of the electorate not "knowing" who they should vote for as opposed to what will benefit themselves.
:(

That is a true understatement. Our leaders and our government are so skewed and corrupt it defies logic. To read up on what these guys get away with, how infiltrated the government is with corporate lobbyists, and how the corporate lobbyist becomes the congressman writes the law to benefit former company then leaves office to go back and work for the corporation......it is a mess and most people don't pay attention to it or don't want to be bothered. Well if you know about it, you have a moral obligation to do something about it whether it be spreading the message about it, voting, or running for office yourself and getting involved.

mikeg205
10-05-2012, 10:31 AM
It isn't the governments job to protect you from yourself. That very notion under minds true liberty and freedom.

^^+1.......

JimN
10-05-2012, 11:09 AM
undermine. It's a real word.

JimN
10-05-2012, 11:15 AM
It isn't the governments job to protect you from yourself. That very notion under minds true liberty and freedom.

No, but the unfortunate reality is that people are too stupid to do what's right, either for/to themselves or others, so the government is in the position of protecting us from each other. These same stupid people elect officials who do what the stupid people want, whether true or imagined, always with bad results. The conflict comes from those who want the government to stay out of the small details being told what to do in every aspect of their lives by those who want the government to tell everyone what to do.

Even with some of the most brilliant minds on the planet and in history, We, the people, are at all-time lows WRT human behavior.

mzimme
10-05-2012, 11:18 AM
While I can appreciate the fact that people like to vote for the single issues, what I don't understand is how that can take presedence over the overall shape of the economy and way of life that we live in every day. I feel that voting at the state level is far more superior to get anything done in the way of abortion, environmental changes, etc., but when it comes to the fact that we have a 16 tillion dollar deficit, real unemployment close to 20%, a president that can't even balance his own campaign finances, taxation on the companies that create jobs that only incentivizes saving over investment (and job creation), which ultimately leads to a contraction of the economy, it's just a no-brainer to me when it comes to these two candidates running for prez.

I get that womens rights are important and are no small issue, but in the state that our country is in right now, there are other things that need to be taken care of first.

JimN
10-05-2012, 11:21 AM
While I can appreciate the fact that people like to vote for the single issues, what I don't understand is how that can take presedence over the overall shape of the economy and way of life that we live in every day. I feel that voting at the state level is far more superior to get anything done in the way of abortion, environmental changes, etc., but when it comes to the fact that we have a 16 tillion dollar deficit, real unemployment close to 20%, a president that can't even balance his own campaign finances, taxation on the companies that create jobs that only incentivizes saving over investment (and job creation), which ultimately leads to a contraction of the economy, it's just a no-brainer to me.

I get that womens rights are important and are no small issue, but in the state that our country is in right now, there are other things that need to be taken care of first.

It's called 'mis-direction'. Stay off-topic for long enough and the people will forget what the real issues are until it's too late. The unemployment numbers that came out today are conveniently positive, considering the fact that they're far from complete and this admin has fallen far short of doing what he campaigned on. Granted, it's not always easy to do what is promised but they keep saying that it's working, when it isn't.

homer12
10-05-2012, 11:36 AM
Abortion has to do with both individual rights AND morality. They are inseparable.

Please show me a law that isn't a legislated instance of morality. We collectively regulate morality all the time with age limits on liquor consumption, movie ratings, assisted suicide.... there is a pretty long list. All laws deal with morality. Morality is the process of choosing right and wrong and is at the core of all laws that protect you from others, protect others from you, and protect you from yourself.

The variable is choosing whose/which moral value system to use. I suspect that's the real challenge on the subject. Simplified, there are two groups who don't want the other's morality imposed on them.

Excellent point! Laws in many ways are driven from your morals. Hell, even taxes are a moral issue - how much should the government get and how should they spend your money - national defense, helping poor, protecting the environment, regulating business monopolies, etc.

mikeg205
10-05-2012, 11:53 AM
OMG - Obama just took credit for 7.8% unemployment.... I would love it if Malia and Sasha would go... "Daddy, how can you say you're programs reduced unemployment - when 23million people are still out of work and more and more people are just giving up?"

and better yet...

"Daddy - do we get to go on food stamps?"

mikeg205
10-05-2012, 12:03 PM
Excellent point! Laws in many ways are driven from your morals. Hell, even taxes are a moral issue - how much should the government get and how should they spend your money - national defense, helping poor, protecting the environment, regulating business monopolies, etc.

Many of our appropriation laws are immoral...even our regulatory laws are now immoral based on the level of lobbying going on. "Most" leaders in D.C. are just out for themselves...Please note "Most"... When the goofs are voted out they go into lobbying. Case in point Dick Gephardt "democrat" - lobbyist for China. Active members in Gov't mis-direct our attention so they can plunge the knife into our backs once they leave office.

Shall we bring up the how is codifying the U.N. and how the U.N. is trying to screw the U.S. - I think an oil discussion would be more fun.

Ben Franklin was right to worry and warn when he quoted...

AUTHOR: Benjamin Franklin (1706–90)

QUOTATION: Dr. McHenry - “Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?” -- Dr. Franklin - “A Republic, if you can keep it.”

ATTRIBUTION: The response is attributed to BENJAMIN FRANKLIN—at the close of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, when queried as he left Independence Hall on the final day of deliberation—in the notes of Dr. James McHenry, one of Maryland’s delegates to the Convention.

CantRepeat
10-05-2012, 12:04 PM
I agree to a point. In reality, though, murder is a moral issue, stealing is a moral issue, child abuse is a moral issue. We have laws and regulations because some don't have the morals that prevent them from harming other people. In regards to abortion, it comes down to what you believe about the fetus. Is it an innocent victim or a lifeless mass? If it has life, then it has rights (ie right to life). These rights should be protected by law, regardless of the circumstances that brought about that life, because there are some that do not share those morals and would victimize that life.

Sorry didnt mean to threadjack. I am also a single issue voter if you couldnt tell.

I disagree again. They are criminal issues and about your character. Your actions define your character.

My morals are to not cheat on my wife or tell lies but those are my choices and no one should try to regulate them. Morals are my beliefs, they are not rules or law.

bcd
10-05-2012, 12:09 PM
That's 'cause the half that can't do math or read are not wanting to give up the gubmint cheese. (Someone should clue them in that they'll still get the cheese even by voting for Romney. We can't reform the country that quick and kick the dead beats to the curb instantly.)
It's teh promise of MORE cheese that keeps them comng back!

But Obama gave them a phone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tpAOwJvTOio

Disclaimer: Bush actually enacted this, so this person's voting for Obama for something Bush actually did.

I usually don't get into political discussions because you will never change someone else's belief/viewpoint, but I find this too funny to not pass along.

Sullivan
10-05-2012, 12:27 PM
I disagree again. They are criminal issues and about your character. Your actions define your character.

My morals are to not cheat on my wife or tell lies but those are my choices and no one should try to regulate them. Morals are my beliefs, they are not rules or law.

I disagree again. If you believe allowing someone the RIGHT to murder a unborn baby with a heart rate is not a moral/immoral issue then where is the right of the baby or father? Why would this not be a moral decision by someone? Are you saying its about fact and choice? Well, where and how does that choice get made, without morals? I have no idea where you are basing your opinion from. But I would assume you are doing so based off some form of morals.


mor·al
   
1.
of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong;

captain planet
10-05-2012, 12:35 PM
No, but the unfortunate reality is that people are too stupid to do what's right, either for/to themselves or others, so the government is in the position of protecting us from each other. These same stupid people elect officials who do what the stupid people want, whether true or imagined, always with bad results. The conflict comes from those who want the government to stay out of the small details being told what to do in every aspect of their lives by those who want the government to tell everyone what to do.

Even with some of the most brilliant minds on the planet and in history, We, the people, are at all-time lows WRT human behavior.

This could be the topic for another thread, but I would think that if you look at what happened in Europe in the 1100's through the 1800's compared to today....human behavior is nothing on which to hang your hat.

captain planet
10-05-2012, 12:38 PM
It's called 'mis-direction'. Stay off-topic for long enough and the people will forget what the real issues are until it's too late. The unemployment numbers that came out today are conveniently positive, considering the fact that they're far from complete and this admin has fallen far short of doing what he campaigned on. Granted, it's not always easy to do what is promised but they keep saying that it's working, when it isn't.

Hmmmm, this reminds me of how many times the federal reserve was brought up in the debate the other night.....exactly zero times.

captain planet
10-05-2012, 12:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX0EMau8GZY&feature=player_embedded#!

first debate reality check

bobx1
10-05-2012, 02:34 PM
Morals, advice, suggestions, laws, a mixture, all of the above?

1.You shall have no other gods before me.

2.You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

3.You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

4.Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

5.Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

6.You shall not murder.

7.You shall not commit adultery.

8.You shall not steal.

9.You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10.You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

mzimme
10-05-2012, 02:45 PM
Man... if I had a nickel for every time I heard "quit banging my donkey" from my neighbor, I'd be one poor bastard.

bobx1
10-05-2012, 03:06 PM
Man... if I had a nickel for every time I heard "quit banging my donkey" from my neighbor, I'd be one poor bastard.

Not sure which covet is worse....manservant or donkey. :D

mzimme
10-05-2012, 03:46 PM
Not sure which covet is worse....manservant or donkey. :D

How bout that maidservant though? Eh... eh???? :D


http://newsmanone.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/american-horror-story2.jpg

thatsmrmastercraft
10-05-2012, 04:02 PM
Man... if I had a nickel for every time I heard "quit banging my donkey" from my neighbor, I'd be one rich bastard.

Fixed it for you.:rolleyes::D:D

mzimme
10-05-2012, 04:07 PM
Fixed it for you.:rolleyes::D:D

You sonofa.... I will deny the donkey to my grave.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-05-2012, 04:13 PM
You sonofa.... I will deny the donkey to my grave.

You know what they say, donate every year - do volunteer work all the time - help out at church - no one says anything, but bang one donkey.......................:rant:






...........couldn't help myself.:friday:

willyt
10-05-2012, 04:18 PM
i would offer my input, but i'd just be repeatedly striking a deceased equine with a rod.

mzimme
10-05-2012, 04:22 PM
You know what they say, donate every year - do volunteer work all the time - help out at church - no one says anything, but bang one donkey.......................:rant:






...........couldn't help myself.:friday:

:uglyhamme

If you were in town, I'd buy you a beer. (to keep you quiet)

Note: This in no way is me admitting guilt to donkey bonkin'.

CantRepeat
10-05-2012, 05:06 PM
I disagree again. If you believe allowing someone the RIGHT to murder a unborn baby with a heart rate is not a moral/immoral issue then where is the right of the baby or father? Why would this not be a moral decision by someone? Are you saying its about fact and choice? Well, where and how does that choice get made, without morals? I have no idea where you are basing your opinion from. But I would assume you are doing so based off some form of morals.


mor·al
   
1.
of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong;

You can find 15 different definitions of moral or morality... pick which ever supports your point of view.

moralsplural of mor·al (Noun)

Noun:

A lesson, esp. one concerning what is right or prudent, that can be derived from a story, a piece of information, or an experience.
A person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do.

No where in there does it say rules or law.

Laws do not regulate morality, they regulate criminal behavior. Laws do not change someones morals they change or stop someone's criminal acts.

You don't change or regulate someone's morals, you can't.

Sullivan
10-05-2012, 05:13 PM
One more thing: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
John Adams quotes (American 2nd US President (1797-1801), 1735-1826)

So to say that morality has nothing to do with our laws is incorrect.

Now, I am done.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-05-2012, 05:28 PM
:uglyhamme

If you were in town, I'd buy you a beer. (to keep you quiet)

Note: This in no way is me admitting guilt to donkey bonkin'.

That beer would only keep me quiet for a few minutes. Just sayin'

CantRepeat
10-05-2012, 05:31 PM
One more thing: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
John Adams quotes (American 2nd US President (1797-1801), 1735-1826)

So to say that morality has nothing to do with our laws is incorrect.

Now, I am done.

Separation between church and state ring a bell?

Sullivan
10-05-2012, 05:44 PM
Your not getting it. Our laws are based off our moral and religious background as a people.

DemolitionMan
10-05-2012, 05:54 PM
Separation between church and state ring a bell?

........................

willyt
10-05-2012, 05:57 PM
Woohoo! I suck at starting joke threads!

At the airport now, but I had that can of worms picture ready to go on my computer.. Forgot to post it before leaving for the airport

JimN
10-05-2012, 07:11 PM
This could be the topic for another thread, but I would think that if you look at what happened in Europe in the 1100's through the 1800's compared to today....human behavior is nothing on which to hang your hat.

You'll have to be more specific for anyone to know what you're referring to. Human behavior makes people do what comes naturally and acknowledging everyone isn't the same, look at what happens when someone becomes too powerful- almost without exception, they abuse it. Doesn't matter if it's secular or religious, history is filled with examples of this. Another aspect of human nature has to do with what happens when people are left to do what they want- invariably, a large number will do something that is harmful to others.

JimN
10-05-2012, 07:15 PM
You sonofa.... I will deny the donkey to my grave.

My friend in Overland Park heard from the donkey. I have bad news for you.

CantRepeat
10-05-2012, 08:24 PM
Your not getting it. Our laws are based off our moral and religious background as a people.

Please stop trying to make this personal.

I get what you are saying. I don't have to agree with you. It's pretty simple.

CantRepeat
10-05-2012, 08:25 PM
........................

Don't get me going on "god". If you must, there isn't one.

DemolitionMan
10-05-2012, 08:29 PM
Don't get me going on "god". If you must, there isn't one.

That's between You and Him.:D

Sullivan
10-05-2012, 08:40 PM
Please stop trying to make this personal.

I get what you are saying. I don't have to agree with you. It's pretty simple.

Sorry, your the one who challenged my personal opinion and I was just making my point.

CantRepeat
10-05-2012, 08:42 PM
That's between You and Him.:D

No, that's between you and you. If there was one he wouldn't let his people go through so much crap and if there is and he is letting them go through it then he is not worthy of my time or anyone's time for that matter.

Cloaked
10-05-2012, 10:11 PM
..... or anyone's time for that matter.Speak for yourself please. God is very worthy of my time that belongs to Him....

CantRepeat
10-05-2012, 10:37 PM
Speak for yourself please. God is very worthy of my time that belongs to Him....

It's not personal. I just don't think there is a higher power that would let mankind suffer and do the things we men do to each other. If there is and he does, he's not worthy of a minute of my time but if you find a need for it then all the power to you brother.

Skipper
10-05-2012, 10:47 PM
Well if that guy wasn't one of the mods this thread would have gotten the axe a few pages back. Interesting...

CantRepeat
10-05-2012, 10:59 PM
Well if that guy wasn't one of the mods this thread would have gotten the axe a few pages back. Interesting...

I agree with you. I believe that TT is not a place for political or religious debates. I have not lock/deleted this thread because I'm sure the next post would be, this thread was deleted because he was a mod.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't. I'm sure you're happy to fan the flames. Yes, that was personal. 8p

DemolitionMan
10-05-2012, 11:40 PM
No, that's between you and you. If there was one he wouldn't let his people go through so much crap and if there is and he is letting them go through it then he is not worthy of my time or anyone's time for that matter.

Your right that is between God and I. I believe that God puts us through test in life to be better people and to help others that are less fortunate. I have never understood if there is a separation of church and state why do we have " In God We Trust " on our money?

Sullivan
10-06-2012, 12:55 AM
I don't see anything wrong with this thread. We can argue about politics and still get along because we are all here because we love our boats.

FNG and CantRepeat thanks for the conversation and I hope I didn't offend either of you. Cheers!

_fng_
10-06-2012, 08:37 AM
Sullivan you didn't offend me. Discussions about politics are often a lost cause as a person's views don't change easily. However if you are not secure enough in your position that you can put your stance up for scrutiny than I respect that more than the people that watch various media outlets and swallow/regurgitate their bias. Too often critical analysis of the candidates is lost and people make their decisions (for either side) on information that may not be factual.

CantRepeat
10-06-2012, 12:06 PM
Nope not the least bit upset.

On a side note its 88 and we are heading to the river. There just might be a god.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/07/u7emapup.jpg

milkmania
10-06-2012, 12:23 PM
Nope not the least bit upset.

On a side note its 88 and we are heading to the river. There just might be a god.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/07/u7emapup.jpg

definitely not 88 here :(

thatsmrmastercraft
10-06-2012, 12:46 PM
A fine October day in Minnesota.

mikeg205
10-06-2012, 04:40 PM
Caught a news report on Fox on how undecided Walmart moms were affected by the debates...wow really? walmart mom's are measurable population.

Ryan
10-06-2012, 11:44 PM
Caught a news report on Fox on how undecided Walmart moms were affected by the debates...wow really? walmart mom's are measurable population.

That shouldn't be surprising.

Consider the size of each demographic segment of the US and the amount of attention each recieves in this election campaign. The groups listed below are now mutually exclusive and all overlap to some extent.

Compare these facts:
- Walmart Moms: avg 90M+, 30+% of the 110M housholds in the us shop at WM each week. In '08 counties with a WM voted 62M Obama, and 54.7M McCain. (source: me & Bloomberg)
-Hispanics registered to vote: 12.2M, lean democratic 3 to 1, excetp Cubans which are dominantly Republican (Washington Post)
- LGBT: 6.2M , 2.0% of US populaiton

mikeg205
10-07-2012, 09:15 AM
That shouldn't be surprising.

Consider the size of each demographic segment of the US and the amount of attention each recieves in this election campaign. The groups listed below are now mutually exclusive and all overlap to some extent.

Compare these facts:
- Walmart Moms: avg 90M+, 30+% of the 110M housholds in the us shop at WM each week. In '08 counties with a WM voted 62M Obama, and 54.7M McCain. (source: me & Bloomberg)
-Hispanics registered to vote: 12.2M, lean democratic 3 to 1, excetp Cubans which are dominantly Republican (Washington Post)
- LGBT: 6.2M , 2.0% of US populaiton

Maybe one of the candidates should promise even lower prices at Walmart...lol - maybe that would something they deliver....just sayin'

Ryan
10-07-2012, 10:30 AM
Maybe one of the candidates should promise even lower prices at Walmart...lol - maybe that would something they deliver....just sayin'

Seriously!

JimN
10-07-2012, 10:41 AM
That shouldn't be surprising.

Consider the size of each demographic segment of the US and the amount of attention each recieves in this election campaign. The groups listed below are now mutually exclusive and all overlap to some extent.

Compare these facts:
- Walmart Moms: avg 90M+, 30+% of the 110M housholds in the us shop at WM each week. In '08 counties with a WM voted 62M Obama, and 54.7M McCain. (source: me & Bloomberg)
-Hispanics registered to vote: 12.2M, lean democratic 3 to 1, excetp Cubans which are dominantly Republican (Washington Post)
- LGBT: 6.2M , 2.0% of US populaiton

Yes- Walmartians are a separate demographic.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=moz35&va=Walmartians

Sullivan
10-07-2012, 11:51 AM
Okay, now this thread has taken a turn for the worse. Time to shut er down! :)

milkmania
10-07-2012, 12:33 PM
Okay, now this thread has taken a turn for the worse. Time to shut er down! :)

it's gone from
1) politics
2) weather
3) walmartians

where is it headed next:confused:

8p

JimN
10-07-2012, 12:47 PM
it's gone from
1) politics
2) weather
3) walmartians

where is it headed next:confused:

8p

ADD/ADHD discussion. Who wants to go for a bike ride?

milkmania
10-07-2012, 12:50 PM
ADD/ADHD discussion. Who wants to go for a bike ride?

as long as it's not with Bobby Petrino:uglyhamme

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPbaLqzMg4V1hqJaksTCOWwC_56tGLc tVoc_mWYK8qUjizQE3szsP9nduy

mikeg205
10-07-2012, 07:34 PM
let's take it down a notch...:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvxNgdFeWqM

JimN
10-07-2012, 07:53 PM
let's take it down a notch...:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvxNgdFeWqM

Is it just me, or does the singer sound like Hank Hill's niece?

willyt
10-08-2012, 09:44 AM
as long as it's not with Bobby Petrino:uglyhamme

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPbaLqzMg4V1hqJaksTCOWwC_56tGLc tVoc_mWYK8qUjizQE3szsP9nduy

that... was... hilarious