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meggsy1221@aol.com
09-05-2005, 02:39 PM
first time winterizing advice needed,one shop says disconnect all hoses etc. another says i don,t have to do that just have all lines blown out,any suggestions as to trust

6ballsisall
09-05-2005, 02:47 PM
First question is do you have a closed or fresh water cooled boat?

bigmac
09-05-2005, 02:53 PM
first time winterizing advice needed,one shop says disconnect all hoses etc. another says i don,t have to do that just have all lines blown out,any suggestions as to trust

I read the winterizing recommendations in the 2004 owner's manual - disconnecting hoses, removing drain plugs etc. but when I asked my MC dealer about winterizing - they just run about 5 gallons of antifreeze through the engine and heater, change the oil/filter and send you on your way. $250.

AirJunky
09-05-2005, 03:03 PM
You should at least disconnect the heater & shower hoses at their lowest point. I installed radiator flush Ts in mine so that all I had to do was remove the cap & let the heater core drain into the bilge.
Last winter when it got really cold, I disconnected the 4 hoses up by the thermostat housing & poured the pink RV antifreeze in each one till they were full. Seemed to work fine.
Just be sure to connect it all again when you take the boat out!

meggsy1221@aol.com
09-05-2005, 03:03 PM
thank you for the advice one shop quoted 400.00,the other 750.00,this is my 4 th boat where i did the work myself you can imagine my surprise when i got the quotes bottom line i do not want to hurt this motor only 459 hrs thanks again

6ballsisall
09-05-2005, 03:09 PM
Megs I saw in another thread you said you had the Corvette engine. You have aluminum heads. Someone please verify for Megs but am almost positive you do NOT want to use RV antifreeze on aluminum heads. Can someone verify for Megs?

meggsy1221@aol.com
09-05-2005, 03:13 PM
the designation as i know from dealer when we bought it 5.7 indmar assault 330 h.p.

6ballsisall
09-05-2005, 03:17 PM
the designation as i know from dealer when we bought it 5.7 indmar assault 330 h.p.


I could be wrong, it happens a fair amount but I believe in 94' if you had the 330hp engine it was the Corvette LT1. Can someone verify for him please?

JimN
09-05-2005, 04:30 PM
Meggsy- if the motor has what looks like a carburetor on top, it's throttle body fuel injected. If there's a black plastic cover on each side that says Corvette, you have the LT-1. Those were the two available 5.7L motors in 1994, never heard of a motor called Assault.

If you have the LT-1, it has aluminum heads and RV anti-freeze should NOT be used. If it has closed cooling, it has the green type of anti freeze in it and the fresh water section is what will need to be winterized.

$450 for oil change/filter and winterization is pretty high unless it includes additional work. $700 is way high. Can you list everything that's included at these prices?

Cousin_Jeff
09-16-2005, 02:37 PM
I literally just picked up my boat from the dealer and had them winterize the boat. (I know it is early in GA but football season is here and can't get anyone to go out on the boat).

It was $330 for winterization, change oil, and change transmission fluid.

east tx skier
09-16-2005, 04:16 PM
This may help. But double check with someone more knowledgable than I. It gets a little cooler up where you are. Thus, antifreeze might not be a bad idea.

meggsy1221@aol.com
09-19-2005, 12:53 PM
thanks to all who responded,i checked with indmar i do not have the 330 h.p. assault motor.it is infact a 5.7 indmar 285h.p.my son will be crushed if he finds out, the fellow from indmar was very helpful,he gave me a dealer to contact in canada to call he isn't taking on any new clientsbut referred me to murphy marine in calgaryand he did the winterization for a very reasonable price.anyway she's put to bed for the winter too soon i must say but that's life in the north. it was pure joy this season owning a mastercraft,i see now why people commit the investment.finding team mastercraft has been a huge plus you all have been very friendly and helpful.i wish all of you the very best for the rest of the season regards barry

Cloaked
09-25-2005, 08:44 AM
The 4th space in the hull ID number will identify your engine.

muck
09-28-2005, 10:00 AM
ok- if antifreeze is not allowed on the LT1, what do corvettes use? they would use the green antifreeze, correct? so those of us would be allowed to put the green antifreeze in our engines for the winter. i have not yet used antifreeze in mine, but i am considering the green stuff this time.

would i be correct doing this?

Andyg
09-28-2005, 11:43 AM
Other than what would you do with the antifreeze in the spring? That is some nasty stuff and you don't want to fire it up in the lake and send it into water.

east tx skier
09-28-2005, 11:45 AM
JimN's suggestion is to put a big trough under the exhaust flaps to catch the antifreeze and reuse (it necessitates that you get together with some friends who have ski boats and buy a bunch of antifreeze.

On the first incarnation of this board of which I'm aware (one long thread), there was a long discussion about antifreeze in the LT1.

captain planet
09-28-2005, 02:18 PM
I literally just picked up my boat from the dealer and had them winterize the boat. (I know it is early in GA but football season is here and can't get anyone to go out on the boat).

It was $330 for winterization, change oil, and change transmission fluid.


WOW. $330?!?! You can do it yourself for less than $70! Only takes about 2 hours.

MinnX-10
09-28-2005, 02:47 PM
We're around $300 for "Ready for spring" winterization here (on an '03 LQ-9)

mitch
09-28-2005, 02:48 PM
I literally just picked up my boat from the dealer and had them winterize the boat. (I know it is early in GA but football season is here and can't get anyone to go out on the boat).

It was $330 for winterization, change oil, and change transmission fluid.

Jeff, That's too bad, mine is still in the water in Maine! Look for some new friends. Couch or ski? ski or couch?

stevo137
09-28-2005, 06:15 PM
I literally just picked up my boat from the dealer and had them winterize the boat. (I know it is early in GA but football season is here and can't get anyone to go out on the boat).

It was $330 for winterization, change oil, and change transmission fluid.
Wow! I pay about $180.00 for the same service from my MC dealer.
(Includes oil and tranny fluid)
Shhhh, don't give em' any ideas. ;)

JimN
09-28-2005, 08:10 PM
Muck- RV antifreeze is the one that shouldn't be used in a motor with aluminum heads. The car stuff is for boats with closed cooling systems, and even then, Sierra makes an environmentally friendly version. If you use the car type and dump it into any fresh water system, the EPA comes down hard.

If you do a search for winterization topics, there is(or should be) a discussion on winterization that takes relatively little time and gets the job done in a way that there won't be any problems, even if it goes through a really harsh winter. There's not much reason to use anti-freeze if the motor is totally drained, although it must be totally free of sand and anything like that so no water can become trapped.

Workin' 4 Toys
09-29-2005, 12:28 AM
Wow! I pay about $180.00 for the same service from my MC dealer.
(Includes oil and tranny fluid)
Shhhh, don't give em' any ideas. ;)

Steve, just picked mine up tonight. Better watch out, I think they have heard what others are charging (price hike). Maybe they are trying to make up for the loss in fuel sales?!?!?

erkoehler
09-29-2005, 12:30 AM
Workin,

where did you take the boat for winterization? How much did it cost?

Workin' 4 Toys
09-29-2005, 12:30 AM
I would think the internals are less likely to corrode if it has an Antifreeze mix. DO NOT forget, some antifreeze by itself without proper H20 mixture can and will freeze.

stevo137
09-29-2005, 12:35 AM
Now you got me thinkin' :confused:

Workin' 4 Toys
09-29-2005, 12:41 AM
I can always go down to North Point and they charge $170-$180 range.
He's also the prop guy.
Oh, Mike/Pam did mine. And they have some 06's in, so I was window shopping while I was there. Took some pics of what I found interesting on the side. Looks like they have sort of a flag looking thing on the side in white. Not quite sure what its suppose to be. And those graphics, UGH! Even worse in person than on the today is the day thread.
And they just loaded up with 303 and GMP cleaners and protectants for me. So I stocked up while I was there, bought all they had on the shelf. They said they had more in the back, so get it while it there.....

erkoehler
09-29-2005, 12:58 AM
Put up some pics........

stevo137
09-29-2005, 01:05 AM
I have used them for quite a few years for winterization and service and have not had any problems.
If they get much higher than 200 range I will go to the other guy.
He has a very good mechanic.

H20skeefreek
09-29-2005, 07:59 AM
I can't imagine paying someone even $100 to winterize. That's insane 5 gallons of antifreeze/year, one can of fogging oil/4 years and your normal oil change stuff what maybe 60 bucks??

stevo137
09-29-2005, 09:22 AM
I can't imagine paying someone even $100 to winterize. That's insane 5 gallons of antifreeze/year, one can of fogging oil/4 years and your normal oil change stuff what maybe 60 bucks??
H2O, it's been well worth the $180 for me. They change all of the fluids and check everything out for me. Plus consider the time you spend doing it.
They get about 2-3 boats every spring that has a cracked block due to improper winterization.
You don't have to deal with the harsh winters that we get here.
I'm on my second MC and have always had my MC dealer winterize and have had no problems.
When I fire it up in spring might smoke for a minute or two. I let it warm up for quite awhile and away I go.

My winterization checklist:
Clean and wax boat.
Oil teak deck.
Drop off at Pinecrest.

Dewinterization checklist:
Get boat out of storage.
Go to the ramp and start it up...

captain planet
09-29-2005, 09:38 AM
I can't imagine paying someone even $100 to winterize. That's insane 5 gallons of antifreeze/year, one can of fogging oil/4 years and your normal oil change stuff what maybe 60 bucks??

I'm with you H20? It is so easy to winterize I don't know why everyone pays so much to have it done. It's 3 gallons of anit-freeze ($30), 5 qts. of oil ($20) and a filter ($4), 2 qts. of transmission fluid ($10), a can of Stabil ($4), can of fogging oil ($3), and two hours of your time. Most of that time is waiting for the oil to drain out of the block. Unless something came up that I was unable to do it myself, I would never pay that much for someone to winterize my boat.

$71 + two hours of time is much better than anything that I am reading on this thread. What are you all doing paying so much?

H20skeefreek
09-29-2005, 09:57 AM
your right, i forgot the stabil, which I keep in the tank most of the time anyway, that does drive up the cost. if the engine is warm (do the oil change after the antifreeze) it only takes 20 minutes at the most to change the oil.

you can speed up the antifreeze process by removing the thermostat, then as soon as you start, you can fill with antifreeze.

I understand that different peoples time is worth different $$. but unless you are a doctor or lawyer, I can't imagine paying $100+++ in labor for the 1-2 hours, of which you can ski on your buddy's boat while your oil is draining.

stevo137
09-29-2005, 10:14 AM
I respect you guys that do it yourself and are mechanically enclined but can you imagine me doing it!
Look how long it takes me to post sometimes!
Edit, Edit, Edit. Did I get all of that water out of the block, mmmm, maybe not. I'll need to check it again and so forth and so on...
I would need to go back to the place where I store it just to see if I remembered to put the oil filter back on.
Geeez I'm a nut case! :rolleyes:

3event
09-29-2005, 10:18 AM
I also pay for winterization. Time is money. Liability with dealer, not me. WICKED winter in WI. Dealer looks over boat for me, and they haven't tried to upsell anything I didn't think was necessary. I wouldn't spend as much on a car as I did on this boat, so it seems a small ticket to me.

That being said, I have thought about having a fall winterization party - bring a couple of boats and all pitch in to get em done. Then you have several brains remembering all the right processes and can learn from each other. And after it's done, drown sorrows in beer and watch movie or football..... maybe next year.....

mitch
09-29-2005, 10:21 AM
I can't imagine paying someone even $100 to winterize. That's insane 5 gallons of antifreeze/year, one can of fogging oil/4 years and your normal oil change stuff what maybe 60 bucks??

I agree w/ JimN and have just never seen a reason to put in the anti-freeze. What's the easiest way to get it in the motor? Most of my time is spent winterizing the ballast system....

Footin
09-29-2005, 10:28 AM
I agree w/ JimN and have just never seen a reason to put in the anti-freeze. What's the easiest way to get it in the motor? Most of my time is spent winterizing the ballast system....


I drain the block of the lake water then reinstall the plugs and suck 4 gallons of pink antifreeze through the raw water pump by taking the hose off the bottom of the boat and putting it in 5 gallon bucket filled with the antifreeze. Very easy process, when the bucket is almost empty, spray the fogging oil in the carb and put it to bed.

At least this is my plan this year, last year I just drained the block aand manifolds.

Jorski
09-29-2005, 10:43 AM
I have an LT-1 so as per Jimn's instructions no antifreeze for me, ...do my own winterizing and it is quite simple to make sure that it is done correctly.

I sort of enjoy doing the final tinker for the season and putting it to bed for the winter.

east tx skier
09-29-2005, 11:58 AM
I respect you guys that do it yourself and are mechanically enclined but can you imagine me doing it!
Look how long it takes me to post sometimes!
Edit, Edit, Edit. Did I get all of that water out of the block, mmmm, maybe not. I'll need to check it again and so forth and so on...
I would need to go back to the place where I store it just to see if I remembered to put the oil filter back on.
Geeez I'm a nut case! :rolleyes:

Steve, let's put it this way. If I can do it, anyone can do it. ;)

Tom Wortham
09-29-2005, 12:40 PM
Doug,
You don't use anti-freeze do you? I never have. Just curious. I realize it's a little different for us TX guys. Saw some pics of your little one. Very Cute and Congrats. Hope to get my 5 year old up next season. Think the 3 year old is already ready... The second one is always the "wild" one. Regards, :D

east tx skier
09-29-2005, 12:48 PM
No, not since I've done the winterization myself (my dealer uses it for CYA purposes more than anything). For several reasons. 1. It's Texas. 2. I store inside. 3. I don't want to have to dispose of the antifreeze. and 4. I try to run the boat for a few minutes once a month through the off season and doing this with antifreeze would be a big hassle. I just have it in my checklist so I won't forget if I ever decide I want to do it.

Thanks for the compliments. Little meatball is already 11 lbs 9 oz. I think his skiing days are a few years off, but his observer days have already begun.

captain planet
09-29-2005, 12:51 PM
I have an LT-1 so as per Jimn's instructions no antifreeze for me, ...do my own winterizing and it is quite simple to make sure that it is done correctly.

I sort of enjoy doing the final tinker for the season and putting it to bed for the winter.

I have the LT-1 as well and have used antifreeze for years, not the RV but Sierra or Prestone Low-Tox. Any reason you don't use any anti-freeze? I mean if you think about it, there are quite a few Corvettes running around with anti-freeze in their engines.

east tx skier
09-29-2005, 01:00 PM
I just read my printout of the original discussion related to winterizing an LT-1. Jim's comment was not to use the pink RV antifreeze in the LT-1.

I think the no antifreeze at all notion is grounded in the idea that if you drain it thoroughly, your block will not freeze. Since Jim's in Wisconsin and I'm in Texas, my comfort level with not worrying with antifreeze is very high.

Jorski
09-29-2005, 02:16 PM
I have the LT-1 as well and have used antifreeze for years, not the RV but Sierra or Prestone Low-Tox. Any reason you don't use any anti-freeze? I mean if you think about it, there are quite a few Corvettes running around with anti-freeze in their engines.


Well,

1) It is easy to do a complete and thorough draining..and I live in Canada...we do have cold winters here. No problems in the three winters I have been doing it without antifreeze

2) I prefer not dump antifreeze of any kind when I recommission

3) the pink RV stuff is supposed to corrode the aluminum heads. They don't use that in all of those "Corvettes running around" out there.

mitch
09-29-2005, 02:41 PM
I just read my printout of the original discussion related to winterizing an LT-1. Jim's comment was not to use the pink RV antifreeze in the LT-1.

I think the no antifreeze at all notion is grounded in the idea that if you drain it thoroughly, your block will not freeze. Since Jim's in Wisconsin and I'm in Texas, my comfort level with not worrying with antifreeze is very high.

I also felt better after Jim's comments re: no antifreeze. :D

east tx skier
09-29-2005, 03:34 PM
Mitch, I've revised the winterization checklist in the FAQ to clarify the antifreeze thing. :)

mitch
09-29-2005, 03:44 PM
Doug, Since you're revising. Not sure if you saw this. Thanks!

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=5425

Danimal
09-29-2005, 03:51 PM
It seems to me, the safest way is to drain everything and then run anti-freeze through it. That's what I'm doing. There is no way I can afford to replace my engine at this time so a little anti-freeze overkill gives me piece of mind.

With that being said... what anti-freeze can I safely use on my '89 Ford Indmar?

east tx skier
09-29-2005, 04:46 PM
Thanks, Mitch. I probalby won't add it. Not that I don't think it's important. But since it's not something with which I'm familiar, I'm a little resistant to saying how to/not to do it. But the same goes for showers on boats too. Basically, if it ever has water in it, disconnect the hoses and shake 'em. Then spin whatever makes the impeller go so it kicks water out of the pump.

Andyg
09-29-2005, 06:18 PM
That being said, I have thought about having a fall winterization party - bring a couple of boats and all pitch in to get em done. Then you have several brains remembering all the right processes and can learn from each other. And after it's done, drown sorrows in beer and watch movie or football..... maybe next year.....


That is what I actually am doing this year, this Sunday. We will be winterizing 2 boats while one stays in the water to pull a few sets.

AIRCANX09
10-02-2005, 11:34 AM
I've winterized, usuing low toxic propylene glycol/H2O mix 1:1-good to -40c, which could be reached and maintained for a week at a time here. I was wondering if anyone antifreezes their ballast pump. Since I did not,yet, I could use some direction. Dealers' winterization list ($325) says antifreeze if needed. Is it needed if system is pumped dry?

bigmac
10-03-2005, 11:06 PM
It seems to me, the safest way is to drain everything and then run anti-freeze through it. That's what I'm doing. There is no way I can afford to replace my engine at this time so a little anti-freeze overkill gives me piece of mind.

With that being said... what anti-freeze can I safely use on my '89 Ford Indmar?

With the dealer's help, I'm going to do it backwards from that - run antifreeze through the system, then drain it when I get it home.

I don't have a device like fake-a-lake to let me run the thing up to temperature in my driveway, so I'm going to bite the bullet and pay my dealer to do that, so he change the engine and tranny oil. Their winterizing approach then is to run RV antifreeze (good to -100) through the system with the t-stat open, which also flushes the heater core. Then, just to be on the safe side in these Minnesota winter temps, I'm going to drain the block of the antifreeze solution using the method MasterCraft recommends.

Perko makes an interesting flush kit which would allow not only running in the driveway so the oil and tranny can be drained, but also a relatively easy way to pickle the boat with antifreeze.


Flush-Pro kit.... (http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DP7)

http://www.skidim.com/images/43092.jpg

Any of you guys ever try this device?

6ballsisall
10-03-2005, 11:33 PM
Can anybody give me hints on how to winterize my boat? I have no problem winterizing the boat but (did my 86' last year) but our 95' has a heater on it. What do I do there? It appears to be an OEM heater.

Leroy
10-03-2005, 11:42 PM
Jeff; Drain it? 8p


Seriously always seems to be a few leaking heaters in the spring. I don't have one, but there must be a trick to them.

bigmac
10-04-2005, 08:59 AM
Can anybody give me hints on how to winterize my boat? I have no problem winterizing the boat but (did my 86' last year) but our 95' has a heater on it. What do I do there? It appears to be an OEM heater.

In the bilge, you'll see two heater hoses, about 3/4 ID and relatively softer than others in the area. They may even have "heater hose" printed on them (mine are). Disconnect them and let them drain into the bilge. On my boat, there was an inline barbed connecter on the input hose. I just disconnected it and let it drain, left the other hose connected (PITA to get to the fitting) and with the valve open blew air from an air compressor in one end and the remaining water went back through the valve into the circulating pump and out it's big hose fitting, which I had already disconnected. I bought a similar barbed inline fitting and a couple of hose clamps, and cut the return hose, so now both of them have disconnectable hoses in the bilge at the most dependant location, making the whole process easier.

My dealer recommends blowing the air through the heater system after the hoses are disconnected. Alternatively, you could pump RV antifreeze in one hose using one of those hand-held plunger pumps until it comes out the other hose.

jimmer2880
10-04-2005, 01:42 PM
In the bilge, you'll see two heater hoses, about 3/4 ID and relatively softer than others in the area. They may even have "heater hose" printed on them (mine are). Disconnect them and let them drain into the bilge. On my boat, there was an inline barbed connecter on the input hose. I just disconnected it and let it drain, left the other hose connected (PITA to get to the fitting) and with the valve open blew air from an air compressor in one end and the remaining water went back through the valve into the circulating pump and out it's big hose fitting, which I had already disconnected. I bought a similar barbed inline fitting and a couple of hose clamps, and cut the return hose, so now both of them have disconnectable hoses in the bilge at the most dependant location, making the whole process easier.

My dealer recommends blowing the air through the heater system after the hoses are disconnected. Alternatively, you could pump RV antifreeze in one hose using one of those hand-held plunger pumps until it comes out the other hose.

I second what he said. For a couple years, I only drained one of the heater hoses. However - I got bit last year - had to have my core fixed. Now, I have 2 high quality quick-connects and one set on a short hose so I can use my drill-pump to pump pink stuff through the heater.

AirJunky
10-04-2005, 02:27 PM
In the bilge, you'll see two heater hoses, about 3/4 ID and relatively softer than others in the area. They may even have "heater hose" printed on them (mine are). Disconnect them and let them drain into the bilge. On my boat, there was an inline barbed connecter on the input hose. I just disconnected it and let it drain, left the other hose connected (PITA to get to the fitting) and with the valve open blew air from an air compressor in one end and the remaining water went back through the valve into the circulating pump and out it's big hose fitting, which I had already disconnected. I bought a similar barbed inline fitting and a couple of hose clamps, and cut the return hose, so now both of them have disconnectable hoses in the bilge at the most dependant location, making the whole process easier.

My dealer recommends blowing the air through the heater system after the hoses are disconnected. Alternatively, you could pump RV antifreeze in one hose using one of those hand-held plunger pumps until it comes out the other hose.
I cut those hoses & installed a pair of automotive radiator flush Ts inline. Now all I do is remove the cap from the T & gravity removes all the water from the heater core. Going on 6 yrs now.

BuoyChaser
10-04-2005, 05:57 PM
just got an email from Overton's, they've got an ENGINE COMPARTMENT HEATER for $429.99, OUCH!!!

http://www.overtons.com/cgi-bin/overtons/detail/pdetail2.cgi?r=detail_view&item_num=36251

The BoatSafe™ Marine Engine Compartment Heater
The BoatSafe™ Marine - Engine Compartment Heater Safe and EffectiveAlternative to Winterizing - Proven dependable, the BoatSafe will extend your boating season without the hassle and expense of winterizing and dewinterizing. This engine compartment heater lets you rest easy knowing your boat is safe from freezing until you're ready to use it again. Completely safe and economical to use, the BoatSafe is easy to install and operates on 120V shore power or gen-set power. BoatSafe BSAT - 750 watts with factory calibrated automatic thermostat. For compartments 650 cu. ft. or less. 61/2"H x 61/2"W x 21"L w/2" mounting brackets.
36251

east tx skier
10-04-2005, 06:09 PM
For me, winterizing takes 5 minutes. Just stabilize, fog, drain, and spin the pump. It's the annual maintenance that eats up the time. I need to get one of those manifold quick disconnects to cut my time down to 4 minutes. :)

AIRCANX09
10-04-2005, 07:55 PM
Big Mac.
I installed the perco flush pro this year, works great for running out of water. It would not pick up antifreeze from a pail via garden hose thought. I had to draw antifreeze from raw water port ( on bottom ).

bigmac
10-04-2005, 08:02 PM
Big Mac.
I installed the perco flush pro this year, works great for running out of water. It would not pick up antifreeze from a pail via garden hose thought. I had to draw antifreeze from raw water port ( on bottom ).

Cool. :dance:

On their websites, Perko and SkiDim indicate that you have to tape over the raw water intake in order to get the thing to draw antifreeze from a bucket.

Tom023
10-04-2005, 09:19 PM
Cool. :dance:

On their websites, Perko and SkiDim indicate that you have to tape over the raw water intake in order to get the thing to draw antifreeze from a bucket.

If your 230 is exactly like my X30 that will be easier said than done. The raw water intake rests directly on a bunk and is not accessible while out of the water.

bigmac
10-05-2005, 08:09 AM
If your 230 is exactly like my X30 that will be easier said than done. The raw water intake rests directly on a bunk and is not accessible while out of the water.

Ah...that would be a problem. I guess one solution might be to put the antifreeze in with enough pressure to close the intake valve on the Flush Pro. Too bad they don't have a manual valve on that thing...

bigmac
10-05-2005, 08:40 AM
That Flush Pro does intrigue me, especially as I see it comes with a through-hull fitting that connects right up to the device from the transom.

http://mccollister.info/thruhull.jpghttp://mccollister.info/flushpro.jpg

You'd be able to walk right up to the transom of your boat in the driveway and connect your garden hose (no more fake-a-lake) and run the boat to your heart's content, get it up to temp for oil change, tranny fluid change, then exchange the garden hose for a hose on a pressurized container of anti-freeze ("GoatThroat", or even a drill-driven pump with garden hose fittings

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0006OJZ5G.01-A3LDAX1Z8QDFC._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

and pump the anti-freeze through the whole system. Jeez, your boat would be winterized in about 5 minutes without even getting in it except to start the engine.

Very attractive concept, especially if I were putting my boat in and out of the water a lot in freezing temps during the winter (I won't be, since the ice on our lake will be two feet thick until about April 21st).

bigmac
10-05-2005, 09:22 AM
It occurs to me that one other advantage to the Flush Pro device is that the spring-loaded check valve would prevent the intake line from draining back and emptying when the boat comes out of the water on the trailer or lift, which would in turn prevent the raw water impeller from pumping even that brief amount of air in the line, which in turn would decrease potential damage to the impeller from running dry.

AIRCANX09
10-05-2005, 09:56 AM
The tape on the intake did not work, even with the attachment to trigger the spring valve there wasn't any pressure to force the antifreeze in. Back to a previous question I had as well. What about ballast systems?

bigmac
10-05-2005, 10:21 AM
Back to a previous question I had as well. What about ballast systems?

MasterCraft recommends draining, then pumping RV antifreeze in and then back out of all of the ballast pumps.

http://mccollister.info/ballast.jpg

captain planet
10-12-2005, 12:21 AM
Can anybody give me hints on how to winterize my boat? I have no problem winterizing the boat but (did my 86' last year) but our 95' has a heater on it. What do I do there? It appears to be an OEM heater.


Pull off the heater hoses off the engine, blow compressed air through them, then hold one hose up in the air with a funnel in it and pour antifreeze in it till it comes out the hose laying in the bilge, and then reconnect them to the block. Takes 10 minutes.

NeilM
10-12-2005, 01:14 PM
It can get to minus 50 here, so I use RV antifreeze AND drain. My theory is that I'm then left with RV antifreeze, not water, in any 'low spots'. Even RV antifreeze freezes at around minus 40, so I want mostly air, not fluid, in the block, lines, and pumps.

Engine / manifold / trans cooler: I drain the block, manifolds, and trans cooler, then suck about a gallon (4L) of RV Antifreeze through the engine, (about 4 seconds of idle) then re-drain everything & disconnect the hoses as described in the manual.

Ballast pumps. Pump 'em dry (empty) then pump in (fill) RV Antifreeze through each pump. I then let them suck air in fill direction so that the pump chambers are mostly empty. MC recommends new ballast impellers every spring, so if you're going to do that, maybe now is the time to take the impeller covers off.

Heater. I disconnect the hoses, stick one into the shop vac, the other into RV antifreeze, and turn on the vac. If you suck a 'plug' (about 2 cups) of RV antifreeze thru the heater hose, any water in the heater core will be displaced and end up in the vac.

Shower. I disconnect the hoses, stick 'em into a jug of RV antifreeze, and run the shower till pink comes out the hose. Then I take the hoses out of the antifreeze and let the pump run (this one won't be hurt by running dry) until all the antifreeze is gone.

maybe its overkill, but I don't want to take any chances.

bigmac
10-12-2005, 01:24 PM
It can get to minus 50 here, so I use RV antifreeze AND drain. My theory is that I'm then left with RV antifreeze, not water, in any 'low spots'. Even RV antifreeze freezes at around minus 40, so I want mostly air, not fluid, in the block, lines, and pumps.

Engine / manifold / trans cooler: I drain the block, manifolds, and trans cooler, then suck about a gallon (4L) of RV Antifreeze through the engine, (about 4 seconds of idle) then re-drain everything & disconnect the hoses as described in the manual.

Ballast pumps. Pump 'em dry (empty) then pump in (fill) RV Antifreeze through each pump. I then let them suck air in fill direction so that the pump chambers are mostly empty. MC recommends new ballast impellers every spring, so if you're going to do that, maybe now is the time to take the impeller covers off.

Heater. I disconnect the hoses, stick one into the shop vac, the other into RV antifreeze, and turn on the vac. If you suck a 'plug' (about 2 cups) of RV antifreeze thru the heater hose, any water in the heater core will be displaced and end up in the vac.

Shower. I disconnect the hoses, stick 'em into a jug of RV antifreeze, and run the shower till pink comes out the hose. Then I take the hoses out of the antifreeze and let the pump run (this one won't be hurt by running dry) until all the antifreeze is gone.

maybe its overkill, but I don't want to take any chances.


My hero... :) It's exactly my plan.

How do you run your engine up to temp?

Any thoughts on using a suction/sump pump to connect to the oil pan drain hose to pump out the engine oil, instead of running the hose through the hull drain and into a bucket by gravity?

River Rat
10-12-2005, 02:11 PM
first time winterizing advice needed,one shop says disconnect all hoses etc. another says i don,t have to do that just have all lines blown out,any suggestions as to trust



Two Words

MOVE SOUTH 8p

I ride 9 months out of the year and run my boat at least 1 time a month the other 3. and never do that winter thing

Ok so it's a little more than 2 words :o

east tx skier
10-12-2005, 03:38 PM
Jeff, heated storage? My climate is your climate, but I still drain everything (I crank it up once a month, too).

River Rat
10-12-2005, 03:59 PM
Nope... if I know it's going to freeze overnight I will leave the lights on in the garage. You may not get colder up there but it last longer. our freezes are very short and things inside hardly ever freeze.......Gee now my water pipes will bust this year! :o

east tx skier
10-12-2005, 06:15 PM
I don't know why I read Arlington instead of Angleton. I'm a Houston native and recall it getting pretty chillly down there. I'd agree that there's little likelihood of your block freezing indoors with a short freeze, but the pump housing is another story depending on the length of the freeze.

You're right though, the likelihood of it getting below freezing indoors in South Texas is almost a non-issue.

maristarman
10-12-2005, 08:10 PM
This is more for the warm climate MCers.

When we bought our boat we winterized it the first year (cost $400.00) at our local friendly dealer.

The next year talked to some fellow local MC owners who said that they never winterized their boats because it didn't get cold enough here to worry about it.

They said that for the fluids to freeze that it would take at least a few days of sub 32 degree weather to get the temperatures inside the block and the lines cold enough for things to freeze.

Does that sound about right?

I'd have to guess that it does because we haven't winterized the last 4 winters and haven't had any problems.

We may drop below 32 at night, but the days are always at least in the low 40s.

Anyone have any advice on how long it would take the fluids to freeze?

thanks

Tom023
10-12-2005, 08:16 PM
I winterize almost as I did in Michigan because I view it just as much as corrosion prevention as freeze protection. For the four to five months I don't use the boat, I want the internal parts to be protected and the gas stabilized. I also drain the block and such so I don't have to worry if the temperature drops below freezing for several days, which it has. It only takes a few minutes to drain the block and hoses, so why not do it? I skip the antifreeze part which I did up north, because the boat doesn't sit nearly as long.

As far as how long it takes to freeze, well I guess that depends on what temperature you have before it drops below freezing. If it's 33 all day long and drops below freezing and stays that way for several hours, the water will start to freeze.

AirJunky
10-12-2005, 08:17 PM
Thats about right Maristarman. There are a few scenarios that it might still freeze though.
Freak cold snap..... and then your sweatin it.
Or if your boat is outside, in the shade, and the day temps don't get too high.
In either case, it's an expensive gamble. No clue which "Bay area" your in, but I lived in Seattle where it hardly ever gets cold. 30s are pretty common, 20s are rare, under 20 is a 100 yr anomaly. So I've never really "winterized" before. Just drain everything. Once you learn how, it's not rocket science at all & only takes a few minutes.
You know what they say.... better safe than sorry.

JDK
10-12-2005, 08:50 PM
Engine / manifold / trans cooler: I drain the block, manifolds, and trans cooler, then suck about a gallon (4L) of RV Antifreeze through the engine, (about 4 seconds of idle) then re-drain everything & disconnect the hoses as described in the manual.


You do exactly what I do, but.....you must make sure the engine is hot (thermostat is open) for the A/F to flush through the block. The alternative is to remove the thermostat, then you can instantly flush a cold block. After draining the block, my engine takes ~ 4 jugs of the pink stuff before the exhaust water is pink.

east tx skier
10-12-2005, 11:58 PM
Maristarman, don't forget, it's not just the block you're worried about. That pump housing is not nearly as thick.

You can unbutton the boat to drain in around 90 seconds. Turn the motor over and you're good. Sure, I disconnect the hoses. But at a bare minimum, I would turn 4 nuts and spin the impeller. It's just too easy not to.

NeilM
10-13-2005, 12:48 AM
My hero... :) It's exactly my plan.

How do you run your engine up to temp?
I use a FlushPro, since the intake is blocked by the trailer bunk.

Any thoughts on using a suction/sump pump to connect to the oil pan drain hose to pump out the engine oil, instead of running the hose through the hull drain and into a bucket by gravity?

Yeah.. I got the idea here on TeamTalk - from Kell, I think - I went to NAPA and bought a hose fitting that screws onto the end of the crankcase drain hose on one end. The other end of the fitting is a hose barb that's attached to the intake hose on my drill pump. It takes less than 5 minutes to suck the crankcase dry.



You do exactly what I do, but.....you must make sure the engine is hot (thermostat is open) for the A/F to flush through the block. The alternative is to remove the thermostat, then you can instantly flush a cold block. After draining the block, my engine takes ~ 4 jugs of the pink stuff before the exhaust water is pink.

My thought process was that since I've already pre-drained all the water, a single jug of RV antifreeze should be enough for the low spots. The thermostat housing will drain on its own (the lower hose is off the circulating pump).

Big Spray
10-13-2005, 12:49 AM
If your boat is an open cooling system and you drain all the water out, you shouldn't need any anti freeze at all. Most of that stuff just ends up in the lake any how. If you keep your boat stored in the garage or over its slip and the water doesn't freeze you especially won't need antifreeze.

I've been winterizing my boat for years now and have never used antifreeze and have never had any problems, and it gets well below 0 here for months at a time.

NeilM
10-13-2005, 12:51 AM
Big Spray, you're right. I just run some thru for extra insurance. Makes me sleep better when it's 40 below and the wind is howling..

bigmac
10-13-2005, 09:26 AM
I use a FlushPro, since the intake is blocked by the trailer bunk.


Sigh..I'm struggling with the whole winterizing idea. We can have extended temps of -20 to -30 in this part of the country so there's a lot at stake and a high penalty for doing it wrong. My previous boat (I/O) was a pain to winterize due to complete inaccessibility of the hoses and plugs so I always just paid to have it done. All they ever did was drain it, no anitfreeze, so this is all new to me. I want to be sure to do it right, but the more I read, the less trouble it seems. Everything is far more accessible in this MasterCraft. The dealer want $250 for winterizing. The money's not such a big deal, but he's thirty miles away and I'll bet I can do the whole process in substantially less time than I'd spend on the road hauling the boat there and back.

The Flush Pro is a clever idea. My concern would be whether or not the spring-loaded valve would impede water flow through that otherwise big, honkin' 1.25 inch hose. I would also worry about weeds or something getting hung up in the thing and blocking it - I've pulled a couple of golf-ball sized globs from the tranny cooler over this past summer. The other thing that bothers me about the Flush Pro is that it appear that it won't suck antifreeze unless it's pumped under pressure, since I can't get to my intake strainer (blocked by the trailer bunk, as you mention). I've spent some time at the plumbing store obsessing over myriad fittings, connectors and valves trying to find something to cobble together to use in place of the Flush Pro that would let me valve-close off the intake. 1.25 inch barbed fittings for a 1.25 ball-valve are apparently hard to come by.

My plan is to do the whole thing this weekend by disconnecting the intake hose from the stainer and plugging in an adapter that lets me connect a garden hose right into the intake hose. It remains to be seen how feasible it is to get that hose off the strainer barb, but at least it's readily accessible under the rear seat.

http://mccollister.info/fitting.jpg

As it turns out, I found some Peak RV antifreeze on sale for less than $2/gallon with rebate, and likewise gallon-size Rotella T 15W40 for substantially less than my dealer charges for it. If I could only the right oil filter for this MCX...

Anyway, I know I'm obsessing over this whole silly process but careful detail and preparation in executing manual procedures is my day-to-day life. Given the penalty for doing it wrong in Minnesota and this being my first time winterizing a $50K inboard, I gues I would rather over-think the process than take it too casually.

mitch
10-13-2005, 09:57 AM
Sigh..I'm struggling with the whole winterizing idea. We can have extended temps of -20 to -30 in this part of the country so there's a lot at stake and a high penalty for doing it wrong. My previous boat (I/O) was a pain to winterize due to complete inaccessibility of the hoses and plugs so I always just paid to have it done. All they ever did was drain it, no anitfreeze, so this is all new to me. I want to be sure to do it right, but the more I read, the less trouble it seems. Everything is far more accessible in this MasterCraft. The dealer want $250 for winterizing. The money's not such a big deal, but he's thirty miles away and I'll bet I can do the whole process in substantially less time than I'd spend on the road hauling the boat there and back.

The Flush Pro is a clever idea. My concern would be whether or not the spring-loaded valve would impede water flow through that otherwise big, honkin' 1.25 inch hose. I would also worry about weeds or something getting hung up in the thing and blocking it - I've pulled a couple of golf-ball sized globs from the tranny cooler over this past summer. The other thing that bothers me about the Flush Pro is that it appear that it won't suck antifreeze unless it's pumped under pressure, since I can't get to my intake strainer (blocked by the trailer bunk, as you mention). I've spent some time at the plumbing store obsessing over myriad fittings, connectors and valves trying to find something to cobble together to use in place of the Flush Pro that would let me valve-close off the intake. 1.25 inch barbed fittings for a 1.25 ball-valve are apparently hard to come by.

My plan is to do the whole thing this weekend by disconnecting the intake hose from the stainer and plugging in an adapter that lets me connect a garden hose right into the intake hose. It remains to be seen how feasible it is to get that hose off the strainer barb, but at least it's readily accessible under the rear seat.

http://mccollister.info/fitting.jpg

As it turns out, I found some Peak RV antifreeze on sale for less than $2/gallon with rebate, and likewise gallon-size Rotella T 15W40 for substantially less than my dealer charges for it. If I could only the right oil filter for this MCX...

Anyway, I know I'm obsessing over this whole silly process but careful detail and preparation in executing manual procedures is my day-to-day life. Given the penalty for doing it wrong in Minnesota and this being my first time winterizing a $50K inboard, I gues I would rather over-think the process than take it too casually.


Look for the Penzoil 15w40 vs Rotella. Not too hard to find :twocents:

bigmac
10-13-2005, 10:32 AM
Look for the Penzoil 15w40 vs Rotella. Not too hard to find :twocents:

Lot's of voodoo about automotive oils, and opinions vary widely. IMHO, oil is oil. Only thing that matters is whether or not it meets the API service cassification required by the engine manufacturer.

:twocents: :)

Tom023
10-13-2005, 10:48 AM
I can't find Pennzoil Marine to save my life and their headquarters is in Houston. I even called them and they were of no help. I switched to Mobil 1 two years ago but for some reason when it's hot out, the oil pressure drops to 0 momentarily when I pull the trottle back to idle after a run. Something that didn't happen when running dino oil, so I am switching back next change.

Tom023
10-13-2005, 10:56 AM
I've spent some time at the plumbing store obsessing over myriad fittings, connectors and valves trying to find something to cobble together to use in place of the Flush Pro that would let me valve-close off the intake. 1.25 inch barbed fittings for a 1.25 ball-valve are apparently hard to come by.



Bigmac,

Would something like this work? I believe Hamilton Marine has the barb fittings in the proper size too. Just a little pricey.

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,2837.htm
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,12757.htm

Big Spray
10-13-2005, 10:58 AM
Yeah, I hear ya! My boat is 24 years old. I might feel differently next year whith the 04 197 slung in the boat house.

east tx skier
10-13-2005, 11:13 AM
I can't find Pennzoil Marine to save my life and their headquarters is in Houston. I even called them and they were of no help. I switched to Mobil 1 two years ago but for some reason when it's hot out, the oil pressure drops to 0 momentarily when I pull the trottle back to idle after a run. Something that didn't happen when running dino oil, so I am switching back next change.

Tom, they should have it at WalMart. I picked up 5 qts on Tuesday. The secret (sort of) is that it is not with the automotive oils. It's in the section where they have the marine stuff, i.e., waxes, boat bumpers, etc.

bigmac
10-13-2005, 11:23 AM
Bigmac,

Would something like this work? I believe Hamilton Marine has the barb fittings in the proper size too. Just a little pricey.

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,2837.htm
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,12757.htm

Thanks, I'll have to look into three-way ball valves - might do the trick.

Tom023
10-13-2005, 11:26 AM
Tom, they should have it at WalMart. I picked up 5 qts on Tuesday. The secret (sort of) is that it is not with the automotive oils. It's in the section where they have the marine stuff, i.e., waxes, boat bumpers, etc.

Eastie, I looked all around my Walmart and couldn't find a marine section. Not it automotive and not in sporting goods, any suggestions?

X-45
10-13-2005, 11:46 AM
Eastie, I looked all around my Walmart and couldn't find a marine section. Not it automotive and not in sporting goods, any suggestions?

It's over by the fishing rods

:steering:

east tx skier
10-13-2005, 12:03 PM
That's about right. Just ask them where the boat wax is. It should be right over there. You'll see some huge jugs of 2 cycle oil. The 15W40 should be nearby.

Ric
10-13-2005, 12:08 PM
I had the flush pro on my 190 and it was easy to connect the garden hose and flush it but it will not pull water from a bucket in the winterizing mode.
flushpro never hurt my boats normal cooling features but the one thing I wanted it to do..... It wouldn't do it.

Sigh..I'm struggling with the whole winterizing idea. We can have extended temps of -20 to -30 in this part of the country so there's a lot at stake and a high penalty for doing it wrong. My previous boat (I/O) was a pain to winterize due to complete inaccessibility of the hoses and plugs so I always just paid to have it done. All they ever did was drain it, no anitfreeze, so this is all new to me. I want to be sure to do it right, but the more I read, the less trouble it seems. Everything is far more accessible in this MasterCraft. The dealer want $250 for winterizing. The money's not such a big deal, but he's thirty miles away and I'll bet I can do the whole process in substantially less time than I'd spend on the road hauling the boat there and back.

The Flush Pro is a clever idea. My concern would be whether or not the spring-loaded valve would impede water flow through that otherwise big, honkin' 1.25 inch hose. I would also worry about weeds or something getting hung up in the thing and blocking it - I've pulled a couple of golf-ball sized globs from the tranny cooler over this past summer. The other thing that bothers me about the Flush Pro is that it appear that it won't suck antifreeze unless it's pumped under pressure, since I can't get to my intake strainer (blocked by the trailer bunk, as you mention). I've spent some time at the plumbing store obsessing over myriad fittings, connectors and valves trying to find something to cobble together to use in place of the Flush Pro that would let me valve-close off the intake. 1.25 inch barbed fittings for a 1.25 ball-valve are apparently hard to come by.

My plan is to do the whole thing this weekend by disconnecting the intake hose from the stainer and plugging in an adapter that lets me connect a garden hose right into the intake hose. It remains to be seen how feasible it is to get that hose off the strainer barb, but at least it's readily accessible under the rear seat.

http://mccollister.info/fitting.jpg

As it turns out, I found some Peak RV antifreeze on sale for less than $2/gallon with rebate, and likewise gallon-size Rotella T 15W40 for substantially less than my dealer charges for it. If I could only the right oil filter for this MCX...

Anyway, I know I'm obsessing over this whole silly process but careful detail and preparation in executing manual procedures is my day-to-day life. Given the penalty for doing it wrong in Minnesota and this being my first time winterizing a $50K inboard, I gues I would rather over-think the process than take it too casually.

WakeSeeky
10-13-2005, 01:07 PM
This is more for the warm climate MCers...

We may drop below 32 at night, but the days are always at least in the low 40s.

I think we're in the minority, maristarman! :D Nobody here winterizes either, it's not necessary. I'd guess we probably average a little higher daytime temp than you do, but not much and it does get down around freezing several times every winter. We use our boat year-round so we don't do anything. Folks who don't go out in the winter usually stabilize the fuel, but that's about it. You are not alone!

bigmac
10-14-2005, 06:59 AM
I can't find Pennzoil Marine to save my life and their headquarters is in Houston. I even called them and they were of no help. I switched to Mobil 1 two years ago but for some reason when it's hot out, the oil pressure drops to 0 momentarily when I pull the trottle back to idle after a run. Something that didn't happen when running dino oil, so I am switching back next change.I haven't seen anyplace around here that sells the Pennzoil 15w40, but even my local TruValue hardware store has the Rotella T. The Pennzoil is apparently hard to come by.

east tx skier
10-14-2005, 12:26 PM
I haven't seen anyplace around here that sells the Pennzoil 15w40, but even my local TruValue hardware store has the Rotella T. The Pennzoil is apparently hard to come by.

Have you tried the marine section at WalMart? I searched high and low in the automotive section with no luck. It's the only marine oil WalMart carries. But it is not over with the auto supplies. It's over by the corks and luars.

jake
10-14-2005, 12:40 PM
What is the logic for leaving all the hoses disconnected over the winter? I've always done it, but looking at it this year I started to wonder why? Is it to reduce condensation somehow?

east tx skier
10-14-2005, 12:47 PM
I figured it is to let what water is left in them dry out. Condensation might be another concern.

mitch
10-14-2005, 03:40 PM
Lot's of voodoo about automotive oils, and opinions vary widely. IMHO, oil is oil. Only thing that matters is whether or not it meets the API service cassification required by the engine manufacturer.

:twocents: :)

Agreed, but I still use only pennzoil for every oil change in both MC's I've had. Walmart may have the 15w40 in their 'supertech' line of fine quality motor oils if you want to save more even more $ :moon: ;)

mitch
10-14-2005, 03:45 PM
I haven't seen anyplace around here that sells the Pennzoil 15w40, but even my local TruValue hardware store has the Rotella T. The Pennzoil is apparently hard to come by.

Do you guys have Autozone? That's where I get Pennzoil 15w40.

mitch
10-14-2005, 03:55 PM
Do you guys have Autozone? That's where I get Pennzoil 15w40.


This autozone has it in stock
1075 University Ave
St Paul, MN 55104
(651) 645-1703

Ya I'm a little bored so what, it been frieeking raining for dayz man dayz :mad:

bigmac
10-15-2005, 12:59 AM
Agreed, but I still use only pennzoil for every oil change in both MC's I've had. Walmart may have the 15w40 in their 'supertech' line of fine quality motor oils if you want to save more even more $ :moon: ;)



Pennzoil got it's rep back at the turn of the century when oil was discovered in Pennsylvania. That Pennsylvania crude oil was much higher in paraffin content than other crude-oils from around the world, and in that time when oil refining was rudimentary at best, Pennsylvania crude-based oils offered the best protection for the era's rudimentary internal combustion engines because of that high paraffin content. Catalytic refining ("hydrocracking, catalytic cracking, iso-dewaxing...etc) as it's done today made that paraffin base pointless (in fact, detrimental), and Pennzoil now uses the same Group II base oil stocks as every other high quality, non-synthetic, multiviscosity motor oil in the world.

Pennzoil is owned by Shell (who makes Rotella T). It's all about marketing.....

bigmac
10-15-2005, 12:02 PM
Well, I winterized my 230VRS yesterday. It took me three hours, including annual maintenance and figuring out a work flow.

I filled the fuel tank with non-ethanol gasoline and added 20 oz of Sta-Bil, then started in the engine compartment.

The intake hose came off the strainer easily – looks like the dealer did all the struggling for me when he did the boat’s first oil change - hose was kind of chewed up. I plugged in the garden hose adapter I made and started up the engine. I was glad to see water coming out both exhausts, although a little puzzled by the fact that more water was coming out the left side than the right. The boat came slowly up to about 155 degrees. I ran it for about 15 minutes then shut it down. Getting the oil drain hose to fit through the transom drain was a struggle (hangs up on the rudder mounting plate). Drained the engine oil (was not very hot), then stuck a suction pump in the dipstick hole of the V-drive. It took about 30 minutes (was barely warm) to suck the tranny oil up - kind of caramel-colored but I didnt' see any water layering. I changed the oil filter using a WIX 51069 filter. Couldn't find the Pennzoil PZ-3, but that's OK. Pennzoil's filters are made by Fram, which are considered to be the very worst out there (link) (http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilters.html) . The AC PF-25 has been replaced by the PF-454. I opted for the WIX as it gets high marks for performance.

I then started it up, warmed it back up and fogged the intake with StaBil fogging oil, then disconnected the garden hose adapter and dropped it in a 5 gallon bucket of RV antifreeze. Sucked it up in about 30 seconds, pink stuff coming out the exhaust. Shut it down.

This being Minnesota, decided to drain the system to be sure - glad I did. The exhaust quick disconnect drained antifreeze, as did the raw water system pump/hoses and lower side of the circulating pump. BUT, the block drains only put out fresh water, as did the heater hose. I pumped a gallon of antifreeze through the pump side of the the heater hose, leaving the block side connected at the faucet valve - kept pumping until antifreeze came out the block drain hole, then blew air into the heater hose until I heard the air bubbling in the intake manifold.

Apparently, I was overcooling the engine with the garden hose and the thermostat never opened to let the antifreeze into the block. I guess mext time I need to turn the water flow down a little.

Overall it was interesting and not very hard. I learned a lot. It saved me more than $300 and 120 miles of driving - not that big a deal, but my dealer's approach to winterizing is pumping in antifreeze only. If I ever have him do that, I'm sure going to drain it when I get it back.

Tom023
10-15-2005, 12:34 PM
Bigmac,

When I used to use antifreeze in the block for winterizing, I used to drain the block first just to get out as much water as I could before I drew up the antifreeze. I also removed the thermostat to be sure it made it to the block with no problems. Just my :twocents:

bigmac
10-15-2005, 12:47 PM
Bigmac,

When I used to use antifreeze in the block for winterizing, I used to drain the block first just to get out as much water as I could before I drew up the antifreeze. I also removed the thermostat to be sure it made it to the block with no problems. Just my :twocents:

Yeh, removing the thermostat would have done it, but on a V-drive MCX, that would have been just too painful.

When I pumped antifreeze through the pump side of the heater hose, leaving the other side of the hose connected to the intake manifold, antifreeze eventually came out the left-side block drain. I couldn't see if it also came out the right-side drain (took one gallon for that to happen). (The engine is in backwards on a V-drive compared to a direct drive, so left is right and vice versa on a DD).

I wonder if the return line connection from the heater to the intake manifold returns water to both sides of the block, or only to one side. If both sides, I guess that's another way to get antifreeze into the block.

mitch
10-15-2005, 02:16 PM
Pennzoil got it's rep back at the turn of the century when oil was discovered in Pennsylvania. That Pennsylvania crude oil was much higher in paraffin content than other crude-oils from around the world, and in that time when oil refining was rudimentary at best, Pennsylvania crude-based oils offered the best protection for the era's rudimentary internal combustion engines because of that high paraffin content. Catalytic refining ("hydrocracking, catalytic cracking, iso-dewaxing...etc) as it's done today made that paraffin base pointless (in fact, detrimental), and Pennzoil now uses the same Group II base oil stocks as every other high quality, non-synthetic, multiviscosity motor oil in the world.

Pennzoil is owned by Shell (who makes Rotella T). It's all about marketing.....


Interesting, I'll buy that!! :toast:

Tom023
10-15-2005, 02:57 PM
That's about right. Just ask them where the boat wax is. It should be right over there. You'll see some huge jugs of 2 cycle oil. The 15W40 should be nearby.

Ok, my WalMart is just not boater friendly. On your guys suggestions, I looked near the fishing rods and found a marine isle. No oil, not even 2-cycle, just some fenders and dock lines. The 2-cycle was over in the isle with brake fluid, etc. Looks like the Rotella that Bigmac uses is going in, I did find that in automotive.

Tom023
10-15-2005, 03:00 PM
I was glad to see water coming out both exhausts, although a little puzzled by the fact that more water was coming out the left side than the right.

I noticed my LTR does the exact same thing. I just run it at idle hooked up to the hose, maybe a little higher on occasion.