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View Full Version : Need more vertical on wakeboard jump


GoneBoatN
09-24-2012, 12:53 AM
Well, I can get to the other wake consistently now. But now I need more vertical so I can start with some grabs and maybe progress to a back roll (that one might be a pipe dream at 51 years of age but who knows) at some point. Have a look at the video link below and let me know your thoughts on what I need to improve. It's about 1.5 minutes and it is actually the same jump repeated a few times. I have some actual speed and some slow-motion so that you can see what I'm doing better. Also the video software allowed me to zoom in and also pull a few stills from the footage. The video was taken from a GoPro mounted to the ski pole via a strap mount so it is what it is wrt video quality.

https://vimeo.com/50038921

The boat speed is 21.6. Line length is 60ft. Stock ballast full (port: 250, Star: 250, KGB: 300) on an X-15.

I think I know what I need to do but I want to hear comments first.

swatguy
09-24-2012, 02:00 AM
Looking great man, Really the only thing you need to concentrate on is standing tall at the wake. What that means is spring up off the top of it like a jump. You edge great and squat down nicely to build your speed. But somehow you start to stand back up as you go up the wake and then absorb the wake rather then "push off" the top of it.

Think of it like a jump off the ground. You squat and then you jump up by "standing tall". You want to use this same motion at the top of the wake. It will take a couple tries to get the timing down, but you just need to "pop off " the top of the wake. Right now your just riding up the wake with a great edge and your speed and board are giving you the air.........you legs are just kind of absorbing the wake a bit. In order to get that bit more of hang time you are looking for you need to really concentrate on standing tall and pop pining off the top of the wake from that bent knee stance you obtain when you cut.

Hope that makes sense.


Really concentrate on exaggerating your pop up on the first couple jumps til you perfect it


Here us a great quick tutorial from a great site. They also have a great low impact way to learn a backroll :)
http://www.learnwake.com/videos/hs-jumps-the-standing-tall-drill/

madcityskier
09-24-2012, 06:48 AM
Like standing up off a chair.

76S&S
09-24-2012, 11:27 AM
One more thing; at that speed/line length, the wake is really rounded, where you are hitting it. In addition to standing tall at the wake you need to adjust your speed/line length so that your take-off is right in front of where the wake starts to curl. At that point on the wake it will have a good lip to it and will help boost your vertical.

sp00ky
09-24-2012, 03:28 PM
Actually standing tall means try to stiffen your legs when you hit the wake with knees slightly bent but stiff , you are absorbing all the energy with your knees
Think of riding up a ramp not jumping off a diving board

GoneBoatN
09-24-2012, 07:55 PM
Ok, so those were the responses I was expecting. Believe it or not, I'm not absorbing the wake with my lower body as much as I was just a short while ago.

After watching the video, I likewise seen I'm still not standing as tall as I need to be. Funny, from the board it feels like I am, so I need to over exaggerate to get it correct. In particular, I think my back leg (right) when I hit the wake is more flexed than the front (left) - is that possible? I'm thinking practicing a slight Ollie (pushing down with the back leg) and use that technique at the top of the weight for more vertical. I'll go back to using a short swing out and get the feeling down; then working my way further out. That helped in the past.

I was also thinking that lengthening the rope will give me more time to do the progressive edge and giving me more time to get the correct timing.

Well, back to the drawing board (water) this weekend hopefully.

Thanks much all!
:jumping:

GoneBoatN
09-24-2012, 07:57 PM
Like standing up off a chair.

I like that. I can practice that feeling out of the water.

GoneBoatN
09-24-2012, 08:10 PM
Looking great man, Really the only thing you need to concentrate on is standing tall at the wake. What that means is spring up off the top of it like a jump. You edge great and squat down nicely to build your speed. But somehow you start to stand back up as you go up the wake and then absorb the wake rather then "push off" the top of it.

Think of it like a jump off the ground. You squat and then you jump up by "standing tall". You want to use this same motion at the top of the wake. It will take a couple tries to get the timing down, but you just need to "pop off " the top of the wake. Right now your just riding up the wake with a great edge and your speed and board are giving you the air.........you legs are just kind of absorbing the wake a bit. In order to get that bit more of hang time you are looking for you need to really concentrate on standing tall and pop pining off the top of the wake from that bent knee stance you obtain when you cut.

Hope that makes sense.


Really concentrate on exaggerating your pop up on the first couple jumps til you perfect it


Here us a great quick tutorial from a great site. They also have a great low impact way to learn a backroll :)
http://www.learnwake.com/videos/hs-jumps-the-standing-tall-drill/

Just looked at the url/video. It quit part way through because I don't have a subscription but it has a transcript which was really useful. It mentioned about the back leg being more difficult for the extension... So my thinking is now screwed up. Well maybe it is but that is a different subject. :) So I'll worry about the Ollie later and just concentrate on maximizing that extension to the point that I can for now. In particular concentrating on that back leg. That gives me a good drill to try on-water.

sp00ky
09-24-2012, 08:22 PM
Ok, so those were the responses I was expecting. Believe it or not, I'm not absorbing the wake with my lower body as much as I was just a short while ago.

After watching the video, I likewise seen I'm still not standing as tall as I need to be. Funny, from the board it feels like I am, so I need to over exaggerate to get it correct. In particular, I think my back leg (right) when I hit the wake is more flexed than the front (left) - is that possible? I'm thinking practicing a slight Ollie (pushing down with the back leg) and use that technique at the top of the weight for more vertical. I'll go back to using a short swing out and get the feeling down; then working my way further out. That helped in the past.

I was also thinking that lengthening the rope will give me more time to do the progressive edge and giving me more time to get the correct timing.

Well, back to the drawing board (water) this weekend hopefully.

Thanks much all!
:jumping:

Maintain the same body position as the beginning of your cut you have a nice progressive edge but you crouch way too much right before you get to the wake. You are standing tall perfect at the cut so maintain that and use your ankles to keep your edge. The stiffer you are the more solid your pop will be. Also bring the handle to your waist gives you more leverage and lowers your center of gravity.

Chief
09-24-2012, 08:49 PM
Take rope to 70-75 ft, then don't go so wide to the outside, maybe increase speed of boat to 22-23. Go 10-15 ft past the trough of the wake then turn in hard towards the wake. When you get to the wake stay on the progressive edge and push back from the boat in a tall position. You will find that you will get pushed higher than long, load and release is the trick.

If you want to stay at 60 foot on the rope then slow the boat down to around 19 or 20, the wake will stand up at that speed, but 70 foot is about right for a nice wide wake, 60 ft makes the wake too narrow and flat at 21.6.

Good luck!

bcd
09-24-2012, 09:37 PM
I think you're coming off you edge as you go through the wake too. If you pause it at 36 seconds, you can see your board is pretty flat as you go off the wake. You should be edging your hardest at that point to get a good progressive pop. I would argue that you shouldn't try to time your standing tall to olie jump the wake. You can jump off the wake to increase pop, but I don't think it's the best technique to learn the progressive edge pop. You should stand tall (while staying on your edge) as you go down into the trough and up the wake. Focus on locking your knees and also pushing your hips up and forward while keeping the handle low. If you have good line tension from a progressive edge held all the way through the wake, it will launch you up into the air.

This technique will also help you in landing the backroll. You need a good progressive edge, standing tall through the wake, without an olie jump for a good backroll. The only other trick to the backroll is having the patience to wait until after you get your pop before you start initiating the roll.

sprite
09-24-2012, 10:04 PM
looks good! Iv learned that you can get a crazy amount of lift off the wake if you wait longer to "pop", i wait almost to the point when i feel like i have gone to far to get any lift at all, then pop. You will know when you get it because you can easily land out in the flats on a good pass

GoneBoatN
06-30-2013, 07:28 PM
...Think of it like a jump off the ground. You squat and then you jump up by "standing tall". You want to use this same motion at the top of the wake. It will take a couple tries to get the timing down, but you just need to "pop off " the top of the wake. Here is a great quick tutorial from a great site. They also have a great low impact way to learn a backroll :)
http://www.learnwake.com/videos/hs-jumps-the-standing-tall-drill/

I want to thank everyone for the help. It's been a while but I'm finally starting to progress at this. Today I had a handful of jumps where I got this motion and the timing just right and holy cow did I ever get some vertical. I wish I had mounted up the GoPro but unfortunately I did not - gives me an excuse to get out some week night this week. Once I get this motion and timing down I'll move onto the low impact (progressive) way to learn the back roll.

Today was going to be hot and my wife suggested we get out early. What a great call - shout out for my wife. We were on the water by 7:30 AM and by noon when we returned the boat ramp was quite the scene.

Side story: I was in the process of driving my boat onto the trailer using the double lane ramp when a super huge deck boat decided to back off of his trailer. I was cringing as he came off at an angle into my lane. I was just getting to my trailer when he suddenly did this and was sooooo close. These two lanes have docks on the outside so there is no choice - I gave just a little extra throttle than I typically do approaching the trailer. Luckily, I squeaked by. After I was on the trailer, I looked back and his boat was completely sideways across both lanes. I'm always dismayed by people who don't have even the simplest of common sense wait 5 more seconds. I was so glad I made the decision it was too busy for my son to drive the boat onto the trailer for he would have been going slower, not have enough experience to react as I did, and it would have been a collision for sure.

swatguy
07-02-2013, 06:02 PM
Good news. Great work


On the ramp thing. I used to launch on a really tight ramp. I used the rule of everyone next to me is a Wally. I would just wait. I made a couple assumptions of people with brand new comp boats being aware and almost crashed twice because they just turned the key and flew off the trailer without looking behind them. So I tell my wife and practice by the rule of imagine what you don't want to happen and that's what the other guy will do.

GoneBoatN
07-02-2013, 07:45 PM
Good news. Great work


On the ramp thing. I used to launch on a really tight ramp. I used the rule of everyone next to me is a Wally. I would just wait. I made a couple assumptions of people with brand new comp boats being aware and almost crashed twice because they just turned the key and flew off the trailer without looking behind them. So I tell my wife and practice by the rule of imagine what you don't want to happen and that's what the other guy will do.

Odd thing now that I think about it. That is exactly what I did - waited until I thought the time was good to go. There was a boat that just launched from that spot. That guy was being a bit of a jerk as well. Had one those flat hulls with big engine on top (nothing against that) but was really revving his engine and came backing out quite fast. That actually opened up the opportunity as there was someone just floating around the end of the ramp (I was watching and waiting for him to be out of the way as well) - he took the hint and cleared out. With that opening created, that is when I had my son push me off and all I had to do was spin around (narrow area so all you can do is the sit and spin thing with the inboard) and go that short distance onto my trailer. I'm not exactly slow so now I'm sitting here wondering how someone pulled their trailer out, the other back down the ramp so quickly and launch fast enough to put us in that situation. I'm wondering if the other boat was set to slide off the trailer when it hit the water and was not under power/control. It was definitely someone not caring very much about anybody but themselves judging by their haste.

tkemperdc
07-16-2013, 03:52 PM
A lot of sound advice give here, but I will honestly ask if you have thought about adding the extra sacks to the boat. Maybe I am way off with advice, as I would agree with the length, cut, more straight leg, all stuff I was doing.

I added the overflow sacks to mine, and WOW, I really don't like to ride my x15 without something pumped in the overflow.

Again, that is all I could add, it took me 30min to install and they work with the factory pumps.

Have FUN!!!

GoneBoatN
07-17-2013, 12:32 AM
A lot of sound advice give here, but I will honestly ask if you have thought about adding the extra sacks to the boat. Maybe I am way off with advice, as I would agree with the length, cut, more straight leg, all stuff I was doing.

I added the overflow sacks to mine, and WOW, I really don't like to ride my x15 without something pumped in the overflow.

Again, that is all I could add, it took me 30min to install and they work with the factory pumps.

Have FUN!!!

Funny you should say this. Liquid Force had a demo day in my area today and I went. Bob Soven was the Pro on the boat and when he took a run it was cool to watch from so close.

Back to me. We had 11 people in the boat plus ballast. My first shot at w-2-w was a little hesitant because the wake was so big, but I discovered it was not too bad. So the second attempt I just went for it. It was so easy to get to the other wake. I was able to easily repeat it time after time.

So after a while Bob started coaching me on toe side. I finally got to the point where I could hit the other wake toe side but my problem was coming off toe edge and transitioning to heel side unintentionally. I'm going to have to work on this much more next week while on our boating vacation.

Also, I recently added the Integrated Bow Sac to my boat. It helps make the wake a little bigger and it also seems to make it a little more narrow. After today, I know that I will be adding even more ballast to the boat in the near future.

So yes, a bigger wake helps but I need to really work on the technique if I want to progress. When I get it right (not absorbing the wake and keeping tension on the line), I really get the height I'm looking for.

On another note: I got to try out the Liquid Force Harley wakeboard. That board has some really nice pop, is a bit faster than the Watson Classic I've been riding and tracks through the water quite nicely.

All in all a great day on the water.

chrislandy
07-17-2013, 05:50 AM
Back to me. We had 11 people in the boat plus ballast. My first shot at w-2-w was a little hesitant because the wake was so big, but I discovered it was not too bad. So the second attempt I just went for it. It was so easy to get to the other wake. I was able to easily repeat it time after time.

So after a while Bob started coaching me on toe side. I finally got to the point where I could hit the other wake toe side but my problem was coming off toe edge and transitioning to heel side unintentionally. I'm going to have to work on this much more next week while on our boating vacation.


In my experience (I've been riding since the early 90's can't remember exactly it was so long ago!) loose most of the ballast until you've got your technique down. You can quite easily do wake to wake starting from where the boats side spray ends, it's all about keeping the line tension as you pop off the wake. We used to be able to clear wake to wake, land in the flats and get high enough to jump over a knee boarder or crouched wakeboarder with an 89 PS190 and maybe 20gal of water barrels in the back.

Big wakes are scary and really muck up your technique if you're not ready for them. (read quick way to the emergency room with a bust knee or broken ribs) Once you're confident and can easily jump toe and heal every time and throwing a grab or two then gradually increase the ballast getting used to each stage over say 10 rides or whatever you feel comfortable with so with each wake size increase it's not huge so you don't loose the technique as you ride bigger wakes.

Once you've got that down the're nothing like the wake scooping you down into the trough and launching you skywards :D

tkemperdc
07-17-2013, 11:32 AM
Good to hear and 11 people pry made a bit bigger wake, yes, weight in the front will narrow it some.

I do agree, 100% with above, and you stated too.... BE comfortable with your riding before you do. Technique would suffer for sure as you will be worried about hitting the wake. However, I love to be able to have that option and adjustability. It also helps because I have all different skill levels I ride with. My girl, I have no ballast in, me and a buddy usually loaded up. However, if we feel we need to work on a particular riding, we may not pump in the ballast.

Enjoy the riding!!