PDA

View Full Version : Engine Problem 96 PS205


chrislandy
09-13-2012, 08:45 AM
Hi, I've just joined.
I have a 1996 PS 205 EFI which has a "chokey" type problem once warmed up, looking through the threads and from my own experience I reckon it may be the CTS sensor but not 100% sure.

My problem is that the boat is in France at the moment and I'm in the UK so I have to do everything remotely or collect a load of stuff together for when I go over there to try and fix it.

Does anyone know what the part number is for the CTS? Everywhere I've looked here in the UK seems to be 30-60 for the sensor (circa $50-100) to save a load of money I'd take the chance ordering from the US, where could I get it from? Any links?.

Thanks
Chris

mikeg205
09-13-2012, 11:20 AM
could be bad thermostat as well... what temp is gauge showing?

chrislandy
09-14-2012, 03:23 PM
Temp guage shows normal

Jim@BAWS
09-14-2012, 04:05 PM
Temp guage shows normal

Personally I have never seen a guage that says NORMAL on it

They usually read in degrees like 140 160 or even 180...just never have seen the word
NORMAL...just a thought

Jim@BAWS

Worthing skier
09-15-2012, 06:15 AM
Hi

I buy all the parts I need for my Prostar from Mastercraft uk ,
Carl is always spot on , you get him on 01977 698281

Good luck

Kevin

chrislandy
09-15-2012, 09:41 AM
Personally I have never seen a guage that says NORMAL on it

They usually read in degrees like 140 160 or even 180...just never have seen the word
NORMAL...just a thought

Jim@BAWS

OK, I'll re-phrase! I can't remember exactly what the temp guage shows, it's just no different from what it has read for the last 10 years! ;)

jakethebt
09-15-2012, 10:25 AM
If you are looking for a US source, give these guys a call.

http://www.skidim.com/

JimN
09-15-2012, 10:34 AM
Hi, I've just joined.
I have a 1996 PS 205 EFI which has a "chokey" type problem once warmed up, looking through the threads and from my own experience I reckon it may be the CTS sensor but not 100% sure.

My problem is that the boat is in France at the moment and I'm in the UK so I have to do everything remotely or collect a load of stuff together for when I go over there to try and fix it.

Does anyone know what the part number is for the CTS? Everywhere I've looked here in the UK seems to be 30-60 for the sensor (circa $50-100) to save a load of money I'd take the chance ordering from the US, where could I get it from? Any links?.

Thanks
Chris

Did you check for codes? If not, do this before replacing sensors. Since you aren't there, you could have someone else do it, since it only requires a wire of some kind. This will make you "100% sure".

If it is the ECT sensor, it's usually hard to start when warm but will fire up once you open the throttle a bit, as long as the resistance is too high. Also, you may smell fuel in the exhaust, unlike a normal engine. If its resistance it too low, it won't want to start (don't pump the throttle) and it will bog when you try to accelerate.

JimN
09-15-2012, 10:37 AM
Temp guage shows normal

The temp gauge won't show a bad reading if the ECT is bad- the one for the gauge is separate and has no bearing on how well/poorly the engine runs. If the ECT is bad, it's the one with one yellow wire and one black wire.

chrislandy
06-24-2013, 07:54 AM
Right, dragging the thread from the depths but I've just got back from France testing the boat.

Symptoms:
Engine fine when started from cold
When coldish i.e. when the guage isn't registering it won't rev (in or out of gear) past 2600
When warm, you can barely get it over a fast idle @ 1200rpm or 20kph

For example, when coldish I had it up to 2600rpm / 40kph and tried to go faster, it either carried on the same or "choked" and bogged down.

I've changed the CTS at the rear under the manifold
The temp guage when hot is 62degC or about 145degF
I've cleaned all the earths at the front and the rear of the engine
I'm getting 5v at the MAP and TPS loom power
I've taken off the fuel pipe and blown it through (no debris of blockages)
I've taken off the fuel pump and checked for blockages (none)

It took a while to work out why the engine light wasn't coming on, MC UK put a recon engine in before we bought it and had cut the wire by the looks of it as the white connector at the back of the engine didn't have a wire coming from it (never did by the looks of it as the bungs were in both terminals) and the pink/black or pink/blue wire was just floating around the engine bay!

Anyway now the engine light works, the ECU throws up codes 22 and 33

22 - TPS too low?
33 - MAP too high?

Are these both past their best? I didn't manage to get a voltage reading from them though as I only got the engine light working 2hrs before I had to leave.

Chris

JimN
06-24-2013, 08:10 AM
Right, dragging the thread from the depths but I've just got back from France testing the boat.

Symptoms:
Engine fine when started from cold
When coldish i.e. when the guage isn't registering it won't rev (in or out of gear) past 2600
When warm, you can barely get it over a fast idle @ 1200rpm or 20kph

For example, when coldish I had it up to 2600rpm / 40kph and tried to go faster, it either carried on the same or "choked" and bogged down.

I've changed the CTS at the rear under the manifold
The temp guage when hot is 62degC or about 145degF
I've cleaned all the earths at the front and the rear of the engine
I'm getting 5v at the MAP and TPS loom power
I've taken off the fuel pipe and blown it through (no debris of blockages)
I've taken off the fuel pump and checked for blockages (none)

It took a while to work out why the engine light wasn't coming on, MC UK put a recon engine in before we bought it and had cut the wire by the looks of it as the white connector at the back of the engine didn't have a wire coming from it (never did by the looks of it as the bungs were in both terminals) and the pink/black or pink/blue wire was just floating around the engine bay!

Anyway now the engine light works, the ECU throws up codes 22 and 33

22 - TPS too low?
33 - MAP too high?

Are these both past their best? I didn't manage to get a voltage reading from them though as I only got the engine light working 2hrs before I had to leave.

Chris

IIRC, those sensors share their ground- check the ground connections at their attachment points on the block, clean and tighten the battery cables/posts and see if it improves.

A diagnostic computer has a screen that shows the voltage, as seen by the ECM. This is a critical piece of info and can't be found anywhere else. I found a few that had flaky grounds- measured anywhere on the engine or at the battery, it looked fine but the ECM didn't agree with that.

Your measurement of 5VDC at the sensors is only part of the story- you need to measure from the ground wire in the harness to the battery negative post. Not the cable end, not the block, but the battery post. All voltage references should be made with the meter connected to the negative battery post. Don't open the wire loom and strip the tape unless you see evidence of melting from an overheat. If you see melted wire loom and wires, your harness needs to be repaired and this will cause many problems.

Unplug the TPS and see if it runs better.

chrislandy
07-22-2014, 10:56 AM
15 months on I finally got back out to the boat!!!

We cleaned up every ground terminal on the block and battery, scotchbrited,de-greased and put back together.

Wired up the check engine light properly!

Took the fuel pump off again, stripped all the fittings and cleaned up the gauze filter (about 1/2in of crud build up! - no wonder it wasn't running properly!)

Put it all back together only to find the starter had seized! - 1hr getting 2 bolt undone we stripped and rebuild the starter as best as we could but the solenoid just won't let the current through so it's probably corroded internally but we got it back together and did the old screwdriver hotwire to get it running.....

Success - well kind of!

No check engine light! Woohoo! The bogging when hot has gone away :) but is running a bit lumpy - most likely needs plugs, leads, dizzy cap & arm etc

But as usual you solve one problem and find another!

We had the check engine light come only once and went away after a restart
It won't go over 3000rpm under load, it'll free rev to 5k+ with no issues at all and sounds sweet as anything but as soon as it's in gear it won't go past 3k

I though I heard an unusual rattle coming from the silencers as we had the rear floor up but we've taken the one I thought was rattling off and it seems in once piece with no loose bits.

I've got a video of it I can post up later.


Any ideas? We are going back to the boat in 6 weeks so was going to take over a full service kit but also want to take over anything else that may be the issue.

We've not check the fuel pressure yet as I need to know the threads to going into the throttle body so I can make up an adaptor

JimN
07-22-2014, 11:31 AM
15 months on I finally got back out to the boat!!!

We cleaned up every ground terminal on the block and battery, scotchbrited,de-greased and put back together.

Wired up the check engine light properly!

Took the fuel pump off again, stripped all the fittings and cleaned up the gauze filter (about 1/2in of crud build up! - no wonder it wasn't running properly!)

Put it all back together only to find the starter had seized! - 1hr getting 2 bolt undone we stripped and rebuild the starter as best as we could but the solenoid just won't let the current through so it's probably corroded internally but we got it back together and did the old screwdriver hotwire to get it running.....

Success - well kind of!

No check engine light! Woohoo! The bogging when hot has gone away :) but is running a bit lumpy - most likely needs plugs, leads, dizzy cap & arm etc

But as usual you solve one problem and find another!

We had the check engine light come only once and went away after a restart
It won't go over 3000rpm under load, it'll free rev to 5k+ with no issues at all and sounds sweet as anything but as soon as it's in gear it won't go past 3k

I though I heard an unusual rattle coming from the silencers as we had the rear floor up but we've taken the one I thought was rattling off and it seems in once piece with no loose bits.

I've got a video of it I can post up later.


Any ideas? We are going back to the boat in 6 weeks so was going to take over a full service kit but also want to take over anything else that may be the issue.

We've not check the fuel pressure yet as I need to know the threads to going into the throttle body so I can make up an adaptor

If you can get GM fuel line parts easily, buy a spare fuel filter (the one on the engine) and use that for reference to buy parts. DO NOT cut the hard fuel line and install a compression type of T-fitting, unless you can be absolutely sure it won't leak. You could, however, have a Shrader valve silver soldered on a fuel filter, to be used as a diagnostic tool. Your other best choice would be to remove the hard line and have a new one made with a Shrader valve, so you don't need to screw around with this in the future.

FWIW, MC added the fuel line to make diagnostics easier after finding that people didn't like using the adapter because it takes too much time and isn't made for permanent installation. OTC makes one, but it's too long to install without kinking the hard fuel line.

chrislandy
07-23-2014, 04:05 AM
These are the two videos I took so you can hear the noises it's making

http://vimeo.com/101447088

http://vimeo.com/101447087

hearing it back, does that sound like timing?

JimN
07-23-2014, 09:42 AM
These are the two videos I took so you can hear the noises it's making

http://vimeo.com/101447088

http://vimeo.com/101447087

hearing it back, does that sound like timing?

Have you removed the line going to the fuel pump inlet? If not, do that and clean the screen. Also, make sure the fuel shutoff valve and anti-siphon valve at the tank's outlet are clean and the anti-siphon operates freely. In addition, make sure the fuel pickup tube is clear of any debris.

chrislandy
07-23-2014, 10:12 AM
Yes, I cleaned out the gauze screen in the pump (which was pretty much packed solid with debris), I disconnected the fuel line from the tank and pump and blew through with compressed air with no restrictions but didn't have time to remove the fuel tank to clean/check the pickup & valve.

JimN
07-23-2014, 10:46 AM
Yes, I cleaned out the gauze screen in the pump (which was pretty much packed solid with debris), I disconnected the fuel line from the tank and pump and blew through with compressed air with no restrictions but didn't have time to remove the fuel tank to clean/check the pickup & valve.

If you find that the fuel line and all of the parts between the tank and pump are clear and free of any restrictions, it may be time to look at the pump as the problem, but I would start with bypassing the whole line and connect a tank from an outboard motor directly to the pump.

Inspect the whole fuel line and look for areas where it might b compressed or kinked, too.

Worthing skier
07-31-2014, 05:05 PM
Have a look at ebay item number 260732758647 for TBI fuel pressure break out union