PDA

View Full Version : Probably why i had to change my fuel pump and filter


Rooster
09-04-2012, 02:26 PM
http://www.unitedmarine.net/blog/?p=608&gclid

I just bought a boat from Georgia on Lake Lanier 06' X1 with 200 hours on it. So the boat must have sat a little while. I brought it back to Michigan and I began having issues starting the boat. I changed fuel filter and back to normal. The fuel filter was covered in brown sticky grime didnt really know what it was until i read this article. I always thought to winterize on a full tank of fuel so condensation didnt fill the tank, now i may reconsider and just empty it. Any one else run into this?

snork
09-04-2012, 05:36 PM
The more air in the gas tank the bigger chance of moister getting in the gas
if you fill the tank and put some sta-bil in the gas you'll be better off
now that you have successfully changed the fuel filter you know what it takes to replace the fuel pump

jfw432
09-04-2012, 06:14 PM
I truly don't mean any offense by my post but here goes anyway... Everyone is out to blame ethanol for everything like it's the fuel of satan and it annoys the crap out of me. Typically the problem with ethanol originates because someone didn't read the manual and there is absolutely no way they could possibly be at fault so they start looking for a scapegoat. Ethanol quickly becomes that scapegoat.

I've run fuel with ethanol for as long as I can remember. Yeah sure I had to replace fuel injector o-rings in my car once but it was 23 years old. Yeah I've had to rebuild carbs but they too were well over 15-20 years old. The only time I've ever had to replace a fuel hose in anything with an engine was because it either got cut or it didn't fit with some aftermarket part that I added.

Let's paint a quick picture... If someone leaves a car parked behind their house for a year, they go out there and pray that it starts and everything works. Maybe it works and maybe it doesn't but once it does start, they are very careful with it because they know it's been neglected. The next guy parks his boat in the backyard for the same amount of time and he's pissed off because it didn't start right up. Next thing is the whole family is miserable on their one lake day a year because dad is swearing up a storm. Once the boat finally starts, the guy runs his boat WOT all day long and puts it up until next year. Must've been that G*# D%*& ethanol in the gas he says.......

snork
09-04-2012, 07:24 PM
theres no reason for ethanol in the gas in the first place
make something we can drink from the corn plant instead

thatsmrmastercraft
09-04-2012, 09:42 PM
theres no reason for ethanol in the gas in the first place
make something we can drink from the corn plant instead

I'm with you here snork, not to mention how much we all have to spend to have gasoline diluted into an inferior product.

CC2MC
09-08-2012, 07:53 AM
I saw an episode of Ship Shape on a product that compared Stabil with Formula X 2. (Very good show, btw if you have not ever seen it.) They showed that this product actually dissolved any moisture in the gas tank bc it was able to mix together somehow. That way the moisture was able to completely burn out of the system. It also removed the harmful effects of the ethanol leaving the tarnish and eating away at hoses. I was really wanting to try this out for myself, even performing the same test they did, by putting water and gasoline in a beaker then mixing everything up. Of course the Stabil mixed with the gas turned blue, but did not mix the water in with the gas. Unfortunately, the product was only being sold in South FL but now they now have a distributorship set up. I only have one that is local to me in AL. There are several in FL and one in GA. I think I may have to call Bass Pro here and see how much they are selling it for. Has anyone else heard of or tried Formula X2?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkalEYeoJKE&feature=related

JimN
09-08-2012, 09:30 AM
I truly don't mean any offense by my post but here goes anyway... Everyone is out to blame ethanol for everything like it's the fuel of satan and it annoys the crap out of me. Typically the problem with ethanol originates because someone didn't read the manual and there is absolutely no way they could possibly be at fault so they start looking for a scapegoat. Ethanol quickly becomes that scapegoat.

I've run fuel with ethanol for as long as I can remember. Yeah sure I had to replace fuel injector o-rings in my car once but it was 23 years old. Yeah I've had to rebuild carbs but they too were well over 15-20 years old. The only time I've ever had to replace a fuel hose in anything with an engine was because it either got cut or it didn't fit with some aftermarket part that I added.

Let's paint a quick picture... If someone leaves a car parked behind their house for a year, they go out there and pray that it starts and everything works. Maybe it works and maybe it doesn't but once it does start, they are very careful with it because they know it's been neglected. The next guy parks his boat in the backyard for the same amount of time and he's pissed off because it didn't start right up. Next thing is the whole family is miserable on their one lake day a year because dad is swearing up a storm. Once the boat finally starts, the guy runs his boat WOT all day long and puts it up until next year. Must've been that G*# D%*& ethanol in the gas he says.......

The testing has conclusively shown that ethanol is the problem and none of the same symptoms show up with gas that has no ethanol. Instead of rubber fuel lines becoming old, dry and cracked, they expand and become gooey inside. The MC boats with in-tank pump have fuel lines made of Teflon/stainless mesh/fiberglass sleeve/stainless mesh/flame-resistant sleeve with stainless fittings, so these aren't going to be damaged. Teflon isn't affected by much, so they're a good choice. The tanks are polyethylene, so they aren't going to be damaged, either. The pump, OTOH, can be affected by the water/ethanol in the fuel but that depends on the pump. It's not just old boats that are left to sit for long periods- boats that are used on a regular basis have the same problems. None of these problems have anything to do with engine speed after long periods of storage.

You wrote that you have used fuel with ethanol for as long as you can remember- how long is that, exactly? The government mandate isn't very old and these problems all coincide with the addition of ethanol to the fuel supply. It's not a fluke and it's not fuel lines that are being replaced.

The problem is that the government doesn't care that their plan to save us from ourselves is bad science. Not only does ethanol damage fuel systems (and this has been known since before the addition to our fuel) but it's less energy-dense than gasoline, by a good margin. It ends up costing more but fuel mileage is worse than gas alone- not exactly a good combination for decreasing use of gasoline and dependence on foreign sources, is it?

The cause if these problems is that vented tanks breathe, unlike a sealed system used in cars and trucks. There's no vapor recovery system and when a boat sits through several wide temperature swings, it draws air through the vent and into the tank. The moisture is attracted by the ethanol and settles out, once the saturation reaches a certain point. Since it's more dense than gasoline, it sinks and is the first thing that is sent to the engine. Also, the in-tank filter can't pass this garbage, so it starves the pump and causes its failure if the level in the tank is extremely low.

Running a tank until it's empty isn't a good idea- the pump needs the fuel to cool the impeller and the housing and these fail when run without fuel.

JimN
09-08-2012, 09:42 AM
I saw an episode of Ship Shape on a product that compared Stabil with Formula X 2. (Very good show, btw if you have not ever seen it.) They showed that this product actually dissolved any moisture in the gas tank bc it was able to mix together somehow. That way the moisture was able to completely burn out of the system. It also removed the harmful effects of the ethanol leaving the tarnish and eating away at hoses. I was really wanting to try this out for myself, even performing the same test they did, by putting water and gasoline in a beaker then mixing everything up. Of course the Stabil mixed with the gas turned blue, but did not mix the water in with the gas. Unfortunately, the product was only being sold in South FL but now they now have a distributorship set up. I only have one that is local to me in AL. There are several in FL and one in GA. I think I may have to call Bass Pro here and see how much they are selling it for. Has anyone else heard of or tried Formula X2?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkalEYeoJKE&feature=related

They're perpetuating the myth that Stabil will help when the gas already has water in it- it won't. Ethanol doesn't "make water", as the X2 guy said, either.

Any chemists here? Care to chime in on this?

neil.anderson63
09-08-2012, 10:52 AM
Gasoline containing higher levels of ethanol is corrosive and will attract moisture. Ethanol is a "solvent" and when introduced to gasoline it will start to break down the natural properties of the gasoline when ever it comes into contact with air. There is moisture in air; more moisture or humidity increases the possibility of contamination of fuel. The brown or rusty, slimey grime you find on your fuel filter is caused by ethanol. A small amount of fuel in the tank allows more air to come into contact with the fuel causing fuel deterioration. If the tank and fuel sytem are ran dry, the small amount of leftover fuel will turn into a chalky residue coating all parts of the fuel system. Then you fill it up with fuel and turn loose all those little particles. Best practice is to fill the tank full after each use. Untreated ethanol fuel when left in a fuel system will cause starting or running problems and in some cases, damage to the fuel system. I recommend and use Sea-Foam if there is not an ethanol free fuel available.

Bob B
09-08-2012, 11:25 AM
I had my fuel pump go out in the summer of 2010. The dealer says he is finding an orange powder in the pumps. I now use Sta-bil Marine Formula (purchased from Wal-Mart) in my gas if it is going to be in the tank several days.
Bob b

CantRepeat
09-08-2012, 11:53 AM
I truly don't mean any offense by my post but here goes anyway... Everyone is out to blame ethanol for everything like it's the fuel of satan and it annoys the crap out of me. Typically the problem with ethanol originates because someone didn't read the manual and there is absolutely no way they could possibly be at fault so they start looking for a scapegoat. Ethanol quickly becomes that scapegoat.

I've run fuel with ethanol for as long as I can remember. Yeah sure I had to replace fuel injector o-rings in my car once but it was 23 years old. Yeah I've had to rebuild carbs but they too were well over 15-20 years old. The only time I've ever had to replace a fuel hose in anything with an engine was because it either got cut or it didn't fit with some aftermarket part that I added.

Let's paint a quick picture... If someone leaves a car parked behind their house for a year, they go out there and pray that it starts and everything works. Maybe it works and maybe it doesn't but once it does start, they are very careful with it because they know it's been neglected. The next guy parks his boat in the backyard for the same amount of time and he's pissed off because it didn't start right up. Next thing is the whole family is miserable on their one lake day a year because dad is swearing up a storm. Once the boat finally starts, the guy runs his boat WOT all day long and puts it up until next year. Must've been that G*# D%*& ethanol in the gas he says.......

I think you might be misinformed about what ethanol really does to fuel systems.

JimN
09-08-2012, 02:23 PM
I had my fuel pump go out in the summer of 2010. The dealer says he is finding an orange powder in the pumps. I now use Sta-bil Marine Formula (purchased from Wal-Mart) in my gas if it is going to be in the tank several days.
Bob b

When I first started seeing problems with fuel systems, I asked the owner of a carb rebuilding shop for his take on the situation and he told me that reformulated gas (the kind available in '98 and '99) started to go bad in about three weeks, as long as the humidity isn't too high. That has changed with the different formulations but it's good to have some kind of number so the time window doesn't become too large between fill-up and treatment.