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kalamalka
08-24-2012, 11:42 PM
Was shopping with the wife today and needed a break so i went to our local dealer across the street from the mall, a much needed break. I just bought a second hand 06 x1 last year and love it. Only 300 hours and i plan to have it for many years to come. i was floored with the prices on the new x series models at the dealership today! i must make way less money than most folks or ive literally missed the boat somehow. I hope this isnt too forward of me to ask, but how are regular working people able to afford a new mc? does mc offer a low financing rate or is it only the rich buying new? ive taken into account that these are canadian prices, but im not sure that i could even qualify to buy a new one.

mlawler34
08-24-2012, 11:54 PM
My guess. 30 year loans. You can get a mortgage on a new boat over 100k. Love my 04!

kalamalka
08-25-2012, 12:02 AM
Are you kidding? that must be a US thing, i dont think a canadian bank would do that, but who knows? Monthly payments on the new x series boats must be huge

broncotw
08-25-2012, 12:07 AM
No doubt MasterCraft is marketing their boats to the financially elite... Even a bottom of the line Prostar 190 is out of the price range of the middle class.... These new boats are loaded with so much unnecessary crap it's almost comical.... I have made some awesome deals on several used MasterCrafts....

mzimme
08-25-2012, 12:23 AM
Are you kidding? that must be a US thing, i dont think a canadian bank would do that, but who knows? Monthly payments on the new x series boats must be huge

We like to spend way out of our means down here. Afterall, when things don't work out we just ask for bailouts and make our great grandkids pay for our irresponsibility. U-S-A... U-S-A!! ;)

Seriously though, the guy with the median income of roughly 44k can't afford these boats. Thank god for the used market.

Nick911
08-25-2012, 12:27 AM
What dealership were you in Kalamalka?

rholmes
08-25-2012, 12:39 AM
As stated before, 10-20 year loans on boats are out there.... When I was selling cars back in the day and before the recession (Pre 2005), we were putting people in cars with $950 payments for 6 years. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.... I took the commissions and went on my merry way...

JRW160
08-25-2012, 12:44 AM
You can get them on 15-20 year loans now. With 10%-20% down, it's only $500 or $600 a month for a $100k boat.

pram
08-25-2012, 01:05 AM
What dealership were you in Kalamalka?

He must have been at Rayburns I am guessing

mzimme
08-25-2012, 01:12 AM
You can get them on 15-20 year loans now. With 10%-20% down, it's only $500 or $600 a month for a $100k boat.

Even after 10 years that poor sucker on a 20 year loan is still probably 15k or more upside down...

JRW160
08-25-2012, 01:28 AM
Even after 10 years that poor sucker on a 20 year loan is still probably 15k or more upside down...The people who get new ones every couple of years probably don't care. Kind of like they are just renting it rather than actually caring about paying down the loan.

sand2snow22
08-25-2012, 01:40 AM
The people who get new ones every couple of years probably don't care. Kind of like they are just renting it rather than actually caring about paying down the loan.

What if they pay cash?

JRW160
08-25-2012, 01:46 AM
What if they pay cash?Then they are awesome. For most people, paying cash is not an option on a $100k boat. The original question was how are regular working people able to afford a new mastercraft. I don't think paying cash is the most common method of payment.

Jonb1822
08-25-2012, 01:54 AM
It's all what you make a priority in your life. Me and my wife do not have kids and focus on boating, vacation and saving for retirement. I'm sure it's different for everyone. There are people that pay cash, others make monthly payments and pay it off early, and those that get upside down. In the end it's all what people make important in their lives. :) That's my take.

mzimme
08-25-2012, 02:11 AM
It's all what you make a priority in your life. Me and my wife do not have kids and focus on boating, vacation and saving for retirement. I'm sure it's different for everyone. There are people that pay cash, others make monthly payments and pay it off early, and those that get upside down. In the end it's all what people make important in their lives. :) That's my take.

I agree with priorities. As long as you're within your means and the payment works and makes sense, there's really no issue there. At 100k+, I hope you like your boat though... that's a pretty large investment for most of the population. Those that have the ability to set aside 5-1200 bucks a month for a boat payment are definitely not the majority of the American public. I hope that someday I'm in that range of badassness. :)

Keep the liberals out of the office and senate and house, and it'll be easier ;)

sand2snow22
08-25-2012, 02:17 AM
Then they are awesome. For most people, paying cash is not an option on a $100k boat. The original question was how are regular working people able to afford a new mastercraft. I don't think paying cash is the most common method of payment.

Just wondering. Guess you could look at it the same way, pay cash rent it for a year or two, lose $10-20k, but a new one.

sand2snow22
08-25-2012, 02:20 AM
It's all what you make a priority in your life. Me and my wife do not have kids and focus on boating, vacation and saving for retirement. I'm sure it's different for everyone. There are people that pay cash, others make monthly payments and pay it off early, and those that get upside down. In the end it's all what people make important in their lives. :) That's my take.

True and I bet you're going to boat in your retirement.

Jonb1822
08-25-2012, 02:39 AM
True and I bet you're going to boat in your retirement.

Lol. I'm nowhere near retirement (almost 27), but when/if that day comes I plan to. Figured I would start now, so that I can retire by 90 :)

mzimme
08-25-2012, 02:48 AM
Lol. I'm nowhere near retirement (almost 27), but when/if that day comes I plan to. Figured I would start now, so that I can retire by 90 :)

lol 27... you'll have kids some day. If you don't want to, go get snipped now ;) :D

scott023
08-25-2012, 03:23 AM
He must have been at Rayburns I am guessing

Martin Motorsports has a dealership in Kelowna now....

kalamalka
08-25-2012, 03:46 AM
Yeah the dealer was rayburns. The tough part up here is that for 8 of your 12 huge boat payments, the lake is almost unusable, certainly 7 of 12. I was just interested to see how folks were doing it

Jonb1822
08-25-2012, 03:49 AM
lol 27... you'll have kids some day. If you don't want to, go get snipped now ;) :D

Already ahead of ya. No kids in this household. Lol.

kskonn
08-25-2012, 03:53 AM
I will chime in, not sure of this is normal for Mastercraft dealers but at my local dealer in Texas (Near San Antonio) they have told me that 75% of their buyers pay cash. The rest typically have loans ranging from 6-15 years. When I bought my X2 last year I paid cash, the guy I sold my 03 X30 to for 35K put down 15K and financed the rest for 5 years.

mzimme
08-25-2012, 04:34 AM
Its definitely not the same for every buyer. I can't imagine 75% of people that buy a brand new boat pay with cash... but who knows. I sure hope so, that'd be great. For those that can't afford to drop 80-100+ grand on a boat at the dealer, the used market is a great thing. MC has made amazing boats since the 60's. Nothing wrong with getting an old school vintage and loving the hell out of it for years to come.

I envy all of those able to buy the new boats, and I know some day my day will come, but now that's not in cards. I'll enjoy my old skier for a while... as I'm sure lots of others will be happy with their older MC as well.

The best part about the MC family is that nobody cares what year your boat came from. They only care that it works, works well, and that you're happy with it. If it doesn't work well, there's a whole hell of a lotta people that will help you get it working well on these forums. Long live the MC's... :)

ps205
08-25-2012, 09:00 AM
I had a conversation with my brother while at the lake about 8 years ago and I told him that I thought inboard manufactures would price themselves out of buisness once boats hit $80,000 but I was wrong. I just could not imagine who could possibly spend $80,000 on a boat. Not only that but you would think after a few years the few who could afford it would still be hanging onto that same boat and not returning to buy another one.

I just keep thinking that at some point we are going to see a global reset on pricing of large ticket items because people will finally wake up and see that a GM Tahoe made on a ladder frame truck platform (that has been around forever) is not worth damn near $70,000.

Please understand that I am all for those who have worked hard and can afford a new boat, I just find it hard to believe that a boat it worth $100,000 and that there are enough people willing to spend it.

Nick911
08-25-2012, 09:41 AM
MMS is the biggest dealer in the world for a reason. I know here in Alberta, particularly in the city I'm from, average household income is about twice what a new MC costs. It's nothing in Alberta to make 100K/year. When you have that much coming in a month a 1000 dollar payment is nothing. Every second house here has at least one 60K vehicle while many have 2.

milkmania
08-25-2012, 10:47 AM
*snip*

The best part about the MC family is that nobody cares what year your boat came from. They only care that it works, works well, and that you're happy with it. If it doesn't work well, there's a whole hell of a lotta people that will help you get it working well on these forums. Long live the MC's... :)

this analogy reminds me of "party cove"...... it's not what ya brung, it's the fact that you're there:)

seen them pull up in flat bottom boats and they were just as welcome there as the yacht guys
I think the common bond is boats & water:twocents:

milkmania
08-25-2012, 11:10 AM
*snip*

I just keep thinking that at some point we are going to see a global reset on pricing of large ticket items because people will finally wake up and see that a GM Tahoe made on a ladder frame truck platform (that has been around forever) is not worth damn near $70,000.


wonder if this one has carpet.? http://deephousepage.com/smilies/rofl5.gif
FLEET vehicle with FRONT BENCH

BriEOD
08-25-2012, 11:22 AM
It is a fair question and something I wonder all the time as I ride down our river and see huge houses with two and three boats sitting at the end of a pier. Too many people try and "keep up with the Joneses." As for me, both of my MCs have been used and I've paid cash for them both. Just my $.02.

bill-d-c
08-25-2012, 01:46 PM
In 1990 I bought my first and only new boat, a MasterCrsft ProStar 190, for just a hair under $20,000.00. At that time, you could buy a brand new, full size, well equipped truck for about the same money. As we all know, new trucks, MC boats and everything else has gone up. However what I see is MC boats have gone up disproportionately. A top of the line Ford/Dodge/Chevrolet truck (4X4, diesel, leather, crew cab, all options) can be bought for around $55,000.00, give or take a few thousand. A top of the line MC boat is how much?...$125,000.00-$150,000.00. The average working "Joe" has pretty much been pushed out of the new boat market and even the used ones are barely affordable unless they're getting some years on them.
Bill

pram
08-25-2012, 02:11 PM
Martin Motorsports has a dealership in Kelowna now....

Yeah I seen that on the westside the last time that I came through there. I don't know what they are selling though as I can't see them selling MC as well as Rayburns

pram
08-25-2012, 02:19 PM
MMS is the biggest dealer in the world for a reason. I know here in Alberta, particularly in the city I'm from, average household income is about twice what a new MC costs. It's nothing in Alberta to make 100K/year. When you have that much coming in a month a 1000 dollar payment is nothing. Every second house here has at least one 60K vehicle while many have 2.

The newest stats that I could find income surely doesn't show the average income of albertans to be in the 200K range, now that is unless the average wage has double and a half again in the last two years

Median total income, by family type, by province and territory
(All census families) 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010
Median total income

Alberta 78,400 82,030 86,080 83,560 85,380

1. Census families include couple families, with or without children, and lone-parent families.
Source: Statistics Canada, CANSIM, table 111-0009.
Last modified: 2012-06-27.

pram
08-25-2012, 02:23 PM
I personally think that a lot of people that are buying these boats now are spending their parents money on them. There is a lot of money being handed down to the kids (baby boomers) as their parents are passing on. The generation that is passing were savers as they lived through the depression, and their children are reaping the rewards of their hard earned work

Now I am not saying that applies to everyone, but I think that it does apply to a large group

Nick911
08-25-2012, 02:24 PM
Yeah I seen that on the westside the last time that I came through there. I don't know what they are selling though as I can't see them selling MC as well as Rayburns

MMS Kelowna does not sell MC no. I think they have Moomba and Supra, but they have Ilmor techs and can do MC service/warranty stuff.

pram
08-25-2012, 02:25 PM
MMS Kelowna does not sell MC no. I think they have Moomba and Supra, but they have Ilmor techs and can do MC service/warranty stuff.

there is nothing wrong with having another dealer here that knows there stuff that's for sure

I never even thought to phone them when I had to replace my fuel pump a couple of weeks ago, that bites

Nick911
08-25-2012, 02:28 PM
The newest stats that I could find income surely doesn't show the average income of albertans to be in the 200K range, now that is unless the average wage has double and a half again in the last two years

Median total income, by family type, by province and territory
(All census families) 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010
Median total income

Alberta 78,400 82,030 86,080 83,560 85,380

1. Census families include couple families, with or without children, and lone-parent families.
Source: Statistics Canada, CANSIM, table 111-0009.
Last modified: 2012-06-27.

My city's average wage (Fort McMurray) is 170K/year (household). So stands to reason that half of households make more than that. And Alberta median income of ~ 85K mean tens of thousands of families that make more.

So a new loaded MC is well within reach of many here.

JRW160
08-25-2012, 10:59 PM
My city's average wage (Fort McMurray) is 170K/year (household). So stands to reason that half of households make more than that. And Alberta median income of ~ 85K mean tens of thousands of families that make more.

So a new loaded MC is well within reach of many here.
You canadians are rich...median household income is $48k here.

JulioX2
08-25-2012, 11:27 PM
My city's average wage (Fort McMurray) is 170K/year (household). So stands to reason that half of households make more than that. And Alberta median income of ~ 85K mean tens of thousands of families that make more.

So a new loaded MC is well within reach of many here.

Fort Mac is not the norm for income. It's in a unique situation. I wonder how many Mastercrafts are roaming Gregoire lake now. I heard the line up at the dock is quite long on some days..

Nick911
08-25-2012, 11:46 PM
Fort Mac is not the norm for income. It's in a unique situation. I wonder how many Mastercrafts are roaming Gregoire lake now. I heard the line up at the dock is quite long on some days..

I won't go to Gregoire on the weekends but I spend all of Summer on Shuswap anyways. There are several MC's up here. Income is not the norm for sure...

tdjaster
08-26-2012, 01:30 PM
Buy used. Pay cash. Let someone else take the hit of depreciation. If you've got a million bucks lying around, looking for a place to go then you can afford the depreciation. As for me, I'll be happy to buy yours in 10 years for 25% of the price.

pram
08-26-2012, 01:36 PM
My city's average wage (Fort McMurray) is 170K/year (household). So stands to reason that half of households make more than that. And Alberta median income of ~ 85K mean tens of thousands of families that make more.

So a new loaded MC is well within reach of many here.

I would almost hazard to guess because of the number of people that live there and the type of work that they do that the average household income is fairly close being the true average not a weighted one.

Fort Mac is not the norm though

Nick911
08-26-2012, 02:21 PM
Op wanted to know how people can afford new MC's. With the 10's of thousands of households that make 100k plus in a year, a 1400 payment on a 10 year loan for a 100K boat is a walk in the park. Most dual income families here in Fort Mac that I know would be at 300K plus a year. At 40% tax that's still 160K a year or about 14K net a month.

Most people I know affiliated with Oil and Gas in Calgary or Edmonton are over six-figures just for their personal wages. Hell, a buddy of mine sells cars at Dodge dealership and makes over 100K.

Point is plenty of people out there with money...

kalamalka
08-26-2012, 07:21 PM
That is not the norm, the okanagan is significantly less!

JohnE
08-26-2012, 08:43 PM
I bought 2 new MC's...one in 08, and traded that in a year later for an 09. I put some cash down, bought at a good deal, and have a payment that is the same as the average vehicle payment. (I don't have a car loan) It was worth it at the time. I still have equity in my boat (which is why it is for sale) and can afford the payment. Some borrow to the max, others do what I did, and some pay cash. Who really cares.

BTW as soon as I get my CR redemption I will pay this biatch off in full....

JulioX2
08-26-2012, 09:10 PM
That is not the norm, the okanagan is significantly less!

My .2 cents is that most of the people buying the boats and whatnot in the Okanagan are people with "money" from the Vancouver area and Alberta. See quite alot of Alberta plates in the Okanagan region.

FourFourty
08-27-2012, 10:07 AM
In 1990 I bought my first and only new boat, a MasterCrsft ProStar 190, for just a hair under $20,000.00. At that time, you could buy a brand new, full size, well equipped truck for about the same money. As we all know, new trucks, MC boats and everything else has gone up. However what I see is MC boats have gone up disproportionately. A top of the line Ford/Dodge/Chevrolet truck (4X4, diesel, leather, crew cab, all options) can be bought for around $55,000.00, give or take a few thousand. A top of the line MC boat is how much?...$125,000.00-$150,000.00. The average working "Joe" has pretty much been pushed out of the new boat market and even the used ones are barely affordable unless they're getting some years on them.
Bill


Your point is a valid one. However, you can still get a new ProStar 190 for the price of a fully loaded diesel truck..... Just not one of the bigger wakeboard boats.

Nick911
08-27-2012, 11:00 AM
My .2 cents is that most of the people buying the boats and whatnot in the Okanagan are people with "money" from the Vancouver area and Alberta. See quite alot of Alberta plates in the Okanagan region.

Without doubt. It's Albertans coming to BC because there are no lakes in Alberta. At least 6/7 high end wake boats I see on Shuswap have AB registration numbers.

moleson10
08-27-2012, 11:38 AM
Boats are luxury items, like fancy watches or fancy cars which also cost a lot. The major price shift came with the evolution from ski boats to wake boats. Not much different than the switch from cars to luxury SUVs. They are a rich person's game new. And while most people continue to struggle to make ends meet the rich get richer so the luxury stuff goes up.

cwarndahl
08-27-2012, 12:13 PM
Just to chime in. im glad there is a used market. a few years ago a buddy and i partnered up on an 8 year old X-10. we keep it at a marina. on a 5 year note. we took on one additional friend and were able to keep the cost down to about 250 per guy plus matinance and repairs. some of which we do our selves. now the partner thing has been a little tough in that my original friend got a great job offer in another state, so him and i had to find some one else. the friend lost his job for a few months. how ever the boat is paid off next year and i end up being sole owner. but also look at malibu doing axis, they have realized that there brand is out pricing a huge boat market. but im and MC fan, but i would like to see MC do the same thing. i dont need heated seats and 3 video screens to enjoy a day on the lake.

501s
08-27-2012, 12:23 PM
I think it also comes down to priorities. This is my 4th boat and second new boat in 8 years. We are very into the lake life and it's a prirotiy for my family and I. We don't drive around in brand new vehicles, in fact I drive an old 04 F-150. but we have a new X-30 and it's paid off. For me a new boat with no payment was much more important then a new vehicle and because we knew it was something we wanted to do, we starting planning/saving well in advance, did well selling our Moomba and was able to get into it debt free.

BrianT
08-27-2012, 01:36 PM
Op wanted to know how people can afford new MC's. With the 10's of thousands of households that make 100k plus in a year, a 1400 payment on a 10 year loan for a 100K boat is a walk in the park. Most dual income families here in Fort Mac that I know would be at 300K plus a year. At 40% tax that's still 160K a year or about 14K net a month.

Most people I know affiliated with Oil and Gas in Calgary or Edmonton are over six-figures just for their personal wages. Hell, a buddy of mine sells cars at Dodge dealership and makes over 100K.

Point is plenty of people out there with money...

Plenty of money in AB, but that is soley based on O&G. Take that away and we would be like everyone else. We are very lucky we have that to drive our economy. Just go downtown Calgary and see what kind of vehicles are being driven around..... makes buying a expensive new boat look easy.

The dealerships also finance new and used boats for 20 year terms.......

bjames
08-27-2012, 04:28 PM
For me it took 5 boats to finally be able to buy a new MC. The first 4 boats were financed, then for each upgrade, my loans got smaller but the boats got more elabrate. Finally with the X25, I just brought in a certified check along with my 4th boat for trade in. Its a great feeling to walk out with a new boat and not have to go through the financing process - much faster :)

scott023
08-27-2012, 04:33 PM
Yeah I seen that on the westside the last time that I came through there. I don't know what they are selling though as I can't see them selling MC as well as Rayburns

They don't have MC right now, but I bet dimes to doughnuts they will before long. They are already proven, highest volume MC dealer worldwide. And Rayburns are beyond tough to deal with, from sales to service and parts, they aren't in the same league as Martin.

pram
08-27-2012, 05:05 PM
If they were to get the MC line then they would have to move from where they are IMO

I know nothing about MMS from personal involvement

maxpower220
08-27-2012, 05:30 PM
Here is my path, probably typical for a middle class slub. Bought a used inboard for $8000 and paid for it over time. Sold it after 5 years for about what I paid. During that time, I saved some money and bought a new 1999 Malibu for $22,000 with a small loan from Waterski America in Dallas. Had that boat for 2 seasons and sold it. I bought an older MC 205 for a great deal. I had a small loan on it. Sold that boat pretty quickly for a good profit. Bought a used MC 195 for cash. I kept that boat for 7 years before I sold it. I was then able to order a new boat and pay cash.

My story took from 1995 to 2008. I was also buying and selling as prices and the economy were doing good.

LittleFuss
04-19-2013, 04:23 PM
Its all in the priorities. Just bought a 2004 230 VRS for 32K. My wife and I paid cash, reason being that a ski boat is a luxury item and not a I got to have it to make a living or feed myself. We felt if we really wanted a new one we should be able to pay for it like big boys and girls, now we have different priorities than other folks our age (36-39).

We have no children and 2 dogs, with no children going to happen. we are happiest when we are together on the boat. We make it a priority, weather permitting...

However, we could have just as easily taken our cash and made a nice downpayment on a new X2 or X30 even...just did not want a note on a boat...got a mortgage, got 1 car note (mine), thats enough for us. would rather be able to put as much gas in the boat as I can burn than pay a $600 note everymonth...

Its all about priorities...People can afford anything they want, they just usually afford everything they want...we wanted a boat, found a way to afford it...

SSMoose
04-19-2013, 04:51 PM
There's no doubt that each buyer has his/her reasons for purchasing and paying in whatever manner they choose. It's an individual thing.

My boats have always been purchased used because I can spend fewer dollars and still have a blast on the water. More dollars to spend on gas is always more important to me. I have an 83 S+S that still looks good runs good a loads of fun for me. How much more do I really need?
:D

Kweisner
04-19-2013, 05:29 PM
Balance, Grasshopper. Three young teens that will all be college bound, one income, 50 years old. Money goes into the IRA every month and what's left is just enough to pay the mortgage, bills, food, healthcare and boating. . .barely. Bought an '07 197TT last September for $28K cash, and that felt indulgent. Could have bought something cheaper or not at all. But I believe in "buy right once" and MC fulfills that philosophy. "But is it a wise investment?" Absolutely--every weekend is a holiday where we make memories and reconnect. To paraphrase the old adage, you probably won't find any tombstones that say "Wish I Never Bought that Boat". Be sensible. . .have fun. . . life's too short to be paranoid and too long to be reckless.

SSMoose
04-19-2013, 05:35 PM
Balance, Grasshopper. Three young teens that will all be college bound, one income, 50 years old. Money goes into the IRA every month and what's left is just enough to pay the mortgage, bills, food, healthcare and boating. . .barely. Bought an '07 197TT last September for $28K cash, and that felt indulgent. Could have bought something cheaper or not at all. But I believe in "buy right once" and MC fulfills that philosophy. "But is it a wise investment?" Absolutely--every weekend is a holiday where we make memories and reconnect. To paraphrase the old adage, you probably won't find any tombstones that say "Wish I Never Bought that Boat". Be sensible. . .have fun. . . life's too short to be paranoid and too long to be reckless.

Amen to that. This is better said than mine. Same thought process.

CBRENT
04-19-2013, 05:52 PM
One thing I can say is that it sucks making a payment, no matter how big or how small, when it's sitting in storage for the winter!!!!!

cutlerdaddy
04-19-2013, 06:13 PM
For me and my wife its about 'investing in our family'. We are young and have 3 kids all under 8 years old. There is nothing better than going out on the lake during the weekend or on a trip to Lake Powell. These are the things that I am sure we will look back on and remember as the good times.

My story is that we bought a 97 Cobalt 200 after we got married for 20K we had a budget of $250/month to spend. We sold that boat after 4 years for 21K and put the 8K profit in a bank account and continued to make the $250 payment to it while we were pregnant and having kids for nearly 6 years. 2 years ago we decided to get another boat and had a good chunk of money saved up with that and bought our 06 X15 with that cash and a $250 monthly payment. We figure to sell in the next couple of years and upgrade again. If you set a monthly budget stick to it and find something that fits it.

gweaver
04-19-2013, 06:20 PM
I bought my first boat two years ago. 88 ProStar. I believe I got a good deal on the boat, however I've quickly realized that with two small kids (6 and 4), the closed bow is a bit of a limitation for us. Between that and the engine box, it's pretty cramped, even with just us 4. That being said, I paid cash, and no payments is nice. I'm hoping that over the next few years, I can redo the interior and make some well thought-out upgrades and sell it to help pay to upgrade to a Maristar 215 or an older X-boat. I figure if we can make the 88 work for us for 4-5 years, prices on more family-centered boats will have come down to something I can afford on a teacher's salary.
It blows my mind that new boats go for what they do, but I'll second what others have said and say 'cheers' to the used market.
I would certainly look seriously at any entry-level boats that MC decided to offer, branded as an MC or something else. Assuming the same quality is there, I think that would be a good seller. My 88 is about as simple as they come, it's just too small. Basic instrumentation in a larger hull, with well thought-out storage and seating would be ideal. Like others have mentioned, no need for CNC dash panels, heated seats, mega-watt stereos, power towers and computer-controlled digital gauges. Just give me the basics to get on the water, and let me shop the parts catalog at my leisure.
G

tdjaster
04-19-2013, 06:24 PM
I'm so glad someone has brought up this topic. My wife and I would love to have an '06 or newer X-2 but don't have $40k in cash to get one. We know we could walk in to any dealership or bank and easily finance one but that's not what we do. So we are figuring on a 4 step boat owning process.

Step #1: '89 ProStar. Used it one season, sold it for $800 more than we bought it.
Step #2: '98 SportStar (current boat). Starting our second season. Bought it for about $3k under it's value. Expect to sell it in the next year or so.
Step #3: Probably an early 2000's X-9 or similar in the sub-$20k range. Keep it a couple of years.
Step #4: The X-2 that we want. Probably 3-4 years from now. Expect to pay in the upper $20k range by then.

Keys to success:
We always pay cash. Never fire-sale. The deal is made on the purchase end, not on the selling end. Finding a deal and having the cash on hand to snatch it up is key.

Trust me, having a boat paid for makes it much more bearable to see it sitting in the garage during the off-season.

mcparadise
04-19-2013, 06:43 PM
CONSIDER THIS:

If you buy a new MC it will lose its value over time. Let's say you keep it for 3 yrs and sell it.

If it cost $100K and you sold it for $70K, that's a $30K loss + cost of upkeep/gas +...+... (at least $3K to keep the numbers simple).

Now assume you put 333 hrs on it (111 h/yr), then that's $33,000/333 h = $100/h of fun....WOW!! A lot to afford! If you make $30/h then it's 3 h of work for 1 h of play....

I realize my numbers are probably off, but they are conservative I think, and if not, the cost/h will still be high....

Is boating worth it?

Skiing and boating and diving are what I like to do above most else, and it's why I work hard; so an unqualified YES for me (I have old boats though, 15 and 20 yrs) and still it's always B.O.A.T. (break out another thousand).

And, NO I'd never consider buying a new one, but I can still dream to win a lottery so I could!!

Mastercraft13
04-19-2013, 07:23 PM
Just got my new X10. I put down about 25% down and did a 15 year loan which when all said and done equates to a car payment. This has been my dream boat, and with a little one on the way it is a great family thing. Like stated previously it's all about what is important to you. I plan on keeping this for years to come.

SkiMor
04-19-2013, 08:20 PM
A Ski boat is a great hobby and pastime. Fixing, improving and maintaining is my passion. But it is also great family and friends time. That's what makes a boat a good investment.

Nick911
04-19-2013, 08:54 PM
I realize that dropping 100K on a boat that will depreciate 7-10% a year is a bad investment. I also realize that the memories for me and my young family will last forever. We only have so many years in the prime of our lives...so, I could save the money for when I'm 60 and probably can't enjoy a new boat, or, I can enjoy it now.

SSMoose
04-19-2013, 09:36 PM
I realize that dropping 100K on a boat that will depreciate 7-10% a year is a bad investment. I also realize that the memories for me and my young family will last forever. We only have so many years in the prime of our lives...so, I could save the money for when I'm 60 and probably can't enjoy a new boat, or, I can enjoy it now.

Don't be too quick to think 60 is that far over the hill. Memories will still be there and you will be able to get what you really want in a boat. Most of us are pretty vital at 60. I'll let you know when I hit 70!
:)

Nick911
04-19-2013, 09:56 PM
Don't be too quick to think 60 is that far over the hill. Memories will still be there and you will be able to get what you really want in a boat. Most of us are pretty vital at 60. I'll let you know when I hit 70!
:)

I guess I was saying that my enjoyment now at 30 will be greater at 60, or, ill enjoy it now until 60. Either way, money comes and goes.

SunCoast 83
04-19-2013, 10:06 PM
One thing I can say is that it sucks making a payment, no matter how big or how small, when it's sitting in storage for the winter!!!!!

Amen brother

Jonb1822
04-19-2013, 11:25 PM
I always find it interesting to read these topics because of all the different view/walks of life we come from. In my opinion you will never come out ahead on a boat. NEVER! Regardless if it is brand new or old, so the best thing to do is purchase whatever your family feels is right for them and have fun. In the end.....it doesn't matter. :) Live and Love!

Astepatatime
04-20-2013, 12:36 AM
I always find it interesting to read these topics because of all the different view/walks of life we come from. In my opinion you will never come out ahead on a boat. NEVER! Regardless if it is brand new or old, so the best thing to do is purchase whatever your family feels is right for them and have fun. In the end.....it doesn't matter. :) Live and Love!

Amen to this. Interesting thread to read. We're one of those people who just bought a new X-55, so first - to all those who said thank god for the used market, you're welcome in a few years :) Used markets exist because some people buy new.

I've got different philosophies on a few things when it comes to purchasing. First, we're very fortunate to make a great living. Then it's kind of a "Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs" approach. We max savings and prepping for retirement. For our houses (have moved multiple times) we prefer to buy new and the nicest house we can afford - because sometimes they appreciate more than houses at other price points and and the interest deduction doesn't hurt. For our cars, I've personally looked to buy a used late model, low miles vehicle and pay it as soon as possible. And buy an extended warranty. More of a utility thing - I need transportation.

So next on the ladder - no debt in credit cards or other loans. Just a house. Then a boat - a luxury buy to create great family time and memories. Top of the Maslow pyramid. We went for a great boat and bought new - because we wanted a warranty and the fewest problems (I have scarce time and limited boating time so want to max the time we have). Going to do a 15 year loan. But will never pay it off. Why this?
1. Could do a shorter loan or mostly cash, but at 6%, could possibly make more with the cash
2. Will keep it long enough to get through the depreciation curve - maybe 5-6 years, then likely sell it. Roll the loan over to next boat, unless interest rates are way up.

So short story - we went high end because we're fortunate to be able to and already have taken care of the more important financial needs. And the loan is a better financial play for us.

Different strokes...

2012X45
04-20-2013, 01:25 AM
My guess. 30 year loans. You can get a mortgage on a new boat over 100k. Love my 04!

30 years? I do not believe any bank is offering 30 year terms for a wakeboard boat.

Retoxtony
04-20-2013, 02:50 AM
I know in Canada the longest i've heard of is 20 years, which i think is way too long. I think if you have to finance a boat for that long you cant afford it.

30 years? I do not believe any bank is offering 30 year terms for a wakeboard boat.

David4MCSammyDuvall
04-20-2013, 01:45 PM
The prices on current MasterCraft boats are CRAZY ! I believe that the economy has pushed the MasterCraft Boat Company to shift their focus from the middle class people to elite/upper class people in order to keep in business. It seems that they found several loopholes to sell their boats. Loans/stretching the months of payments/several programs that allow you to get a cash back. I own 1995 MasterCraft ProStar 190 Sammy Duvall with 300 hours on it. It's paid off. No more boat payments. I lost the count of how many people came up to me and made offers to buy my boat. It's because they cannot afford the current prices of MasterCraft boats. You can see so many new MasterCrafts on the Classified Advertisements. It shows that the owners realized the impact of paying a hefty monthly payments. The MasterCraft Boat Dealership here have been contacting me with different offers to trade my boat for a newer model because they knew that someone would buy my boat immediately. I can't afford any more boat payments nowadays. I'm unemployed. Can't find work. So I'm enjoying my life here at my lake on my MasterCraft boat.

Footin
04-20-2013, 02:20 PM
My boat in the garage is paid for and the newer boat I will buy soon will be paid for in cash.

I do not like to finance a depreciating asset.

03 35th Anniversary
04-20-2013, 02:46 PM
I will have my boat till I'm dead....

I'm sure whatever is coming out in 2014 to replace/upgraded 190/197 will be around the $100,000 mark.

I think a new 197 with a few options and the 6.0L is bumping $90,000 right now. That's on a 12 year old hull that came out in 2001.

03 35th Anniversary
04-20-2013, 02:53 PM
B.O.A.T. (break out another thousand).

Are you sure???



Cause I was told that B.O.A.T. stood for (Bust Out Another Thousand)...

Jerseydave
04-20-2013, 04:03 PM
Buying a new boat today seems way different than it was years ago.

My 1st MC was a '94 Prostar that I purchased new. Price was a lot compared to cheaper ski boats, but no more expensive than say a Cobalt or Chris Craft at that time. Good quality boats are never at the cheaper end of the scale.

Since that time, I always look for a deal. Example, my '03 Maristar 230 only had 6 hours on it even though it was used for 2 seasons. Paid at least $10K less than it was really worth.

Bought my '05 X-star in Jan '07.....it was a new leftover with full waranty. Got it for $18K below MSRP.

These kinds of deals are almost impossible to find these days, so I'll be keeping my X-star for many, many years. If I have to replace the engine for $10K or trans for $5K it will still be way cheaper than a new boat. It's a recreational vehicle that gets used 6 months so to me there is no need for a new one.

MIskier
04-20-2013, 04:17 PM
I will have my boat till I'm dead....

I'm sure whatever is coming out in 2014 to replace/upgraded 190/197 will be around the $100,000 mark.

I think a new 197 with a few options and the 6.0L is bumping $90,000 right now. That's on a 12 year old hull that came out in 2001.

MC has been jacking their MSRP to help dealers with floorplan financing so that loaded 197 w/ 90k MSRP is more like 60k when its all bought and paid for...still a ton of money for a boat that sold for a little more than half that when the hull was brand new.

toolz
04-21-2013, 12:35 AM
I was at my local dealer last week- He said MC makes 2400 boats per year, and I'm sure they have no problem finding 2400 buyers. He is sold out for the year. It sounded like many of his buyers were trading in newer boats, so the hit wasn't real bad. I still can't justify $100+ for a boat- I have other priorities, although the new X10s and X30s are sure tempting!

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
04-21-2013, 01:07 AM
MC has been jacking their MSRP to help dealers with floorplan financing so that loaded 197 w/ 90k MSRP is more like 60k when its all bought and paid for...still a ton of money for a boat that sold for a little more than half that when the hull was brand new.

Do you really think a dealer is going to take a 1/3 loss of MSRP to sell a new boat at invoice, I think not, a few thousand sure maybe 10-15k if the dealer wants to push the boat, but definitely not 30k. I personally have never seen an official MSRP sheet on a new MC from the manufacture and MC does not publish this info on their build a boat site either, (do these boats even come with one) both dealers around here just print their own up. Since the MSRP is a suggested price, the dealer is free to charge whatever he wants to.

Interesting link, it sure does break everything down... http://www.seedealercost.com/products/manufacturer-models/index/id/201/productCategorySlug/boats

If you compare some other brands they all seem to have a 33.33% markup from invoice to MSRP.

If you take this and compare it to say a 2013 Chevy 1500 4.3L 2wd work truck invoice $22,646; MSRP $23,590 about 4.5% difference, but who would buy a base truck for $30,193. hmm I think not.

d2jp
04-21-2013, 05:39 PM
Do you really think a dealer is going to take a 1/3 loss of MSRP to sell a new boat at invoice, I think not, a few thousand sure maybe 10-15k if the dealer wants to push the boat, but definitely not 30k. I personally have never seen an official MSRP sheet on a new MC from the manufacture and MC does not publish this info on their build a boat site either, (do these boats even come with one) both dealers around here just print their own up. Since the MSRP is a suggested price, the dealer is free to charge whatever he wants to.

Interesting link, it sure does break everything down... http://www.seedealercost.com/products/manufacturer-models/index/id/201/productCategorySlug/boats

If you compare some other brands they all seem to have a 33.33% markup from invoice to MSRP.

If you take this and compare it to say a 2013 Chevy 1500 4.3L 2wd work truck invoice $22,646; MSRP $23,590 about 4.5% difference, but who would buy a base truck for $30,193. hmm I think not.

Just a hunch, but I bet those invoice cost vs MSRP numbers are close. Using the X-30 as an example (as it's new, and seems to be generating interest). Just 'assume' that boat sells for $85K (could be way less) - that is $20K profit. Out of that comes Operating Expenses...salaries, rent, advertising/marketing, insurance, taxes, utilities just to name several leaving the dealership's net income. Which is probably less than 3%. Now 'assume' the dealer isn't in a year 'round boating area, maybe it's the Midwest or Northeast. Meaning new boats are typically sold only a few months a year. They'd better have a great service and accessory business or else I don't see how they could make it on new boat sales only.

And, back to the OP's original post - I know several guys with new boats that got their money the old fashioned way. They inherited it. It seems the rich get richer and boat manufacturers go after this segment. OTOH, since a fiberglass boat doesn't really 'wear out' they are competing with themselves for a new boat sale as used boats are so prolific and quite often the 'trustafarian' that has inherited money didn't watch his dad rebuild Johnson's and Evinrudes growing up (like I did). That customer is buying warranty and service and probably not reading this forum to find out how to install a dual battery set up:)

Lastly, if MC is floorplanning they must have some solid corporate financing.....

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
04-21-2013, 06:08 PM
Just a hunch, but I bet those invoice cost vs MSRP numbers are close. Using the X-30 as an example (as it's new, and seems to be generating interest). Just 'assume' that boat sells for $85K (could be way less) - that is $20K profit. Out of that comes Operating Expenses...salaries, rent, advertising/marketing, insurance, taxes, utilities just to name several leaving the dealership's net income. Which is probably less than 3%. Now 'assume' the dealer isn't in a year 'round boating area, maybe it's the Midwest or Northeast. Meaning new boats are typically sold only a few months a year. They'd better have a great service and accessory business or else I don't see how they could make it on new boat sales only.

And, back to the OP's original post - I know several guys with new boats that got their money the old fashioned way. They inherited it. It seems the rich get richer and boat manufacturers go after this segment. OTOH, since a fiberglass boat doesn't really 'wear out' they are competing with themselves for a new boat sale as used boats are so prolific and quite often the 'trustafarian' that has inherited money didn't watch his dad rebuild Johnson's and Evinrudes growing up (like I did). That customer is buying warranty and service and probably not reading this forum to find out how to install a dual battery set up:)

Lastly, if MC is floorplanning they must have some solid corporate financing.....

Don't forget the dealership makes money on both sides of financing.
As a buyer why would I take into consideration the business expenses, I am buying a product not the store. Don't go straight for the worst case scenario on their operating style.
You are mostly right on not being able to make it on new boat sales alone but as a buyer you shouldn't even think twice about their actual business expenses, I'd be more worried about the warranty aspect of things.

2012X45
04-21-2013, 11:33 PM
I know in Canada the longest i've heard of is 20 years, which i think is way too long. I think if you have to finance a boat for that long you cant afford it.

Amen.

Aric'sX15
04-21-2013, 11:45 PM
My question is, Why does it matter? we all bought boats to have fun and enjoy family time etc.. in the end how it gets paid for is up to whoever owns it. if its financed, paid cash, why does it matter to anyone but who bought the boat?

chevyluv
04-22-2013, 01:01 AM
My question is, Why does it matter? we all bought boats to have fun and enjoy family time etc.. in the end how it gets paid for is up to whoever owns it. if its financed, paid cash, why does it matter to anyone but who bought the boat?

completely agree.

JohnE
04-22-2013, 09:34 AM
My question is, Why does it matter? we all bought boats to have fun and enjoy family time etc.. in the end how it gets paid for is up to whoever owns it. if its financed, paid cash, why does it matter to anyone but who bought the boat?

I couldn't agree more. I've had older boats owned outright. (LIke now) and for a 5-6 year window I had a few new ones with payments.

d2jp
04-22-2013, 09:49 AM
Don't forget the dealership makes money on both sides of financing.
As a buyer why would I take into consideration the business expenses, I am buying a product not the store. Don't go straight for the worst case scenario on their operating style.
You are mostly right on not being able to make it on new boat sales alone but as a buyer you shouldn't even think twice about their actual business expenses, I'd be more worried about the warranty aspect of things.

I agree it's not the buyer's concern over the business aspect of the dealership. I wandered into the realm of 'how can a boat dealer survive in a part of the country that only sells boats (with a starting price of $85K) for 4 months'? And following up on that, maybe they also sell quads, or snowmobiles or other toys to help with cash flow when it's not boating season.

mcparadise
06-20-2013, 06:11 PM
Are you sure???



Cause I was told that B.O.A.T. stood for (Bust Out Another Thousand)...
same difference :-)

Huskie05
06-20-2013, 06:21 PM
completely agree.

Agree, smart money says use almost free money to finance some of the purchase. Make double payments but money lately has almost been free, so why not use the money that you were going to pay cash for a boat on something else, investments? Assuming you have excellent credit, the interest rates are really low. In the end, be wise, take care of the boat (investment) and you will turn out ok. These boats are not cheap, but on all accounts all evidence points to we live only once, at least on earth, so live large and LIVE!!!!!!
my humble two cents.

half a can
06-20-2013, 07:15 PM
I took this the other day at my local shop. It almost makes a new $150k purchase seem manageable. Now to just figure out how to put gas in it! The fine print below the monthly payment is 5.99% APR, 10% down, 240 months of payments.

g-Dog
06-20-2013, 07:34 PM
I took this the other day at my local shop. It almost makes a new $150k purchase seem manageable. Now to just figure out how to put gas in it! The fine print below the monthly payment is 5.99% APR, 10% down, 240 months of payments.

15K out of pocket and $245K for the 20 year loan. $260K sounds reasonable.:rolleyes:

thatsmrmastercraft
06-20-2013, 07:38 PM
I took this the other day at my local shop. It almost makes a new $150k purchase seem manageable. Now to just figure out how to put gas in it! The fine print below the monthly payment is 5.99% APR, 10% down, 240 months of payments.http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=97196&stc=1&d=1371766287

:eek3::eek3::eek3:

Aric'sX15
06-20-2013, 08:10 PM
Can't you buy a real whale for that much? They look better too

mikeg205
06-20-2013, 08:40 PM
eeeeek... ;) .... If I had the cash I would buy new... :)

Traxx822
06-20-2013, 08:50 PM
I don't know. I mean. Life isn't all that stable. Who really has enough stones to say I know 100% I'm going to be able to pay that for the next 12 years. I don't know. Maybe $70k not $150.

My dad always said, If you can't buy it with whats in your pocket then you can't afford it. I have lived literally debt free so far in my life. No credit cards, everything with capitol, I own everything I have. Earned with sweat.

chevyluv
06-20-2013, 10:57 PM
I don't know. I mean. Life isn't all that stable. Who really has enough stones to say I know 100% I'm going to be able to pay that for the next 12 years. I don't know. Maybe $70k not $150.

My dad always said, If you can't buy it with whats in your pocket then you can't afford it. I have lived literally debt free so far in my life. No credit cards, everything with capitol, I own everything I have. Earned with sweat.

Man that's not 12 years its 20 yikes

Tommy1005
06-20-2013, 11:43 PM
I'd rather let my money continue to earn 8-10% a year or more and finance a boat for 3%. In the end I pocket 5+% more doing it that way. If interest rates go up and make it a wash, then I'd have to rethink, but I will finance, just like I do my vehicles. At 0-2%, again, to me it's not worth it to loose that extra cash in the long term.

Traxx822
06-21-2013, 12:17 AM
That's just dangerous to take that much risk. I'd rather see my money go to things no one can take away. Ever. I'll never finance a house, car, boat whatever. when I'm ready to trade in my boat and upgrade to new. I'll be one of a handful paying in 100's. Right now I'm addicted to gold.

I want security. no better security for your family than staying clear of debt. Taking risks of 150k on a boat is selfish in my opinion.

Now don't get upset anyone. This is just my 0.02 and bot directed at anyone.

mikeg205
06-21-2013, 12:50 AM
It's just how you use capital - however a 20 year leverage on a depreciating asset not such a great idea at that rate. A 0 - 20% rate not such a bad idea. $5K a year for interest - that a lot of $$$ being wasted.

Anyway - this type of purchase can't be justified by most of us. I only paid $10K for mine and there's so many nice rides out there for a 1/4 or 1/3 that price.

Would be sweet to have a new one.

Traxx822
06-21-2013, 08:16 AM
Totally mike. But if people are going to pay that much for a boat. Their kids college better be paid for. And I mean in full before you do it. Otherwise you just are a selfish fool.

Family first.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

Nick911
06-21-2013, 09:21 AM
You guys are failing to apply "opportunity cost" to this scenario, that is, applying a monetary value to your leisure time and the quality of it and factoring that against actual costs. I could not buy a boat because I don't have cash and save the $$$, though then I lose the benefit of having a boat.


I justify a 100K boat because I am still young enough to enjoy it, young enough to weather several bankrupcies and still be able to retire comfortably, and because I put a monetary value of my leisure time and the memories made in my children and our friends and their children. Some of my best childhood memories are of boating and I won't deprive my kids of that for a small monthly payment.

Also, agree with previous statements: my money works for me to the extent where it is better to make a payment every month and keep my 100K in my pocket.

chevyluv
06-21-2013, 10:46 AM
I'd rather let my money continue to earn 8-10% a year or more and finance a boat for 3%. In the end I pocket 5+% more doing it that way. If interest rates go up and make it a wash, then I'd have to rethink, but I will finance, just like I do my vehicles. At 0-2%, again, to me it's not worth it to loose that extra cash in the long term.

O no I totally get that. The part I was getting at is they make it so people who shouldnt be spending 150 k on a boat can stretch there limits to where they can realy not afford it but find a way to because they can purchase a toy on a 240 month term.

stuartmcnair
06-21-2013, 11:08 AM
I'm glad I am not the only one who thought the price of new boats was insane. Wife and I decided we could redo the engine this year, the interior next year and the stereo the year after that and the outside the year after that and STILL not spend as much as a payment on a new one.

I paid less for my lakehouse than the new X-Star sitting at Rambo. $171,000 on a 23 foot boat is flat out nuts.

shepherd
06-21-2013, 11:30 AM
I paid less for my lakehouse than the new X-Star sitting at Rambo. $171,000 on a 23 foot boat is flat out nuts.

Here's some perspective. For that kind of money, you can buy this http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1980-Viking-43-Motor-Yacht-355923

And still have plenty of money left over to buy a decent used ski boat. Plus you can deduct the interest on the loan. But some people demand new and if they can afford it, good for them.

mikeg205
06-21-2013, 11:35 AM
You guys are failing to apply "opportunity cost" to this scenario, that is, applying a monetary value to your leisure time and the quality of it and factoring that against actual costs. I could not buy a boat because I don't have cash and save the $$$, though then I lose the benefit of having a boat.


I justify a 100K boat because I am still young enough to enjoy it, young enough to weather several bankrupcies and still be able to retire comfortably, and because I put a monetary value of my leisure time and the memories made in my children and our friends and their children. Some of my best childhood memories are of boating and I won't deprive my kids of that for a small monthly payment.

Also, agree with previous statements: my money works for me to the extent where it is better to make a payment every month and keep my 100K in my pocket.

Yes the you are correct about the opportunity cost - avoiding the initial depreciation whack by buying used will preserve your leisure activity and enjoyment.... unless of course you choose to compete.. :)

JMLVMI
06-21-2013, 11:45 AM
Nice to see a diverse and civil discussion on this stuff. I'll say to all of you new boat owners: please keep up with the service and "MCOCD" so when your boat eventually makes its way to my price range, I can get one in pristine shape :)

gsxrjtt
06-21-2013, 12:15 PM
JMLVMI... I agree thanks to the new boat guys.

Ryan
06-21-2013, 12:42 PM
Note that most inboard boat dealer sites have a button next to Inventory that says Credit Application. Does anyone remember the year loan terms for boats were relaxed? I'm thinking it was '06. Boat prices shot up immediately because consumers had 'access'.

Nick911
06-21-2013, 01:36 PM
Yes the you are correct about the opportunity cost - avoiding the initial depreciation whack by buying used will preserve your leisure activity and enjoyment.... unless of course you choose to compete.. :)

Very true.

Traxx822
06-21-2013, 02:00 PM
JMLVMI... I agree thanks to the new boat guys.

Agreed, thanks to the new boat guys. If you ha e the money go ahead and buy it new. But man that is just too much of a plunge for me.

If you are young and think you need this before other priorities then you need more help than I can assist with.

Mike was telling me about a guy on the river who lives with his mom but is young and owns a brand new super air nautique, I mean come on. Get your life straight kid.

I'd like to see the value of these boats come back down to a more realistic price. I doubt it costs 50% to make that boat. They are making money hand over fist

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

Thrall
06-21-2013, 03:20 PM
, young enough to weather several bankrupcies and still be able to retire comfortably,

Also, agree with previous statements: my money works for me to the extent where it is better to make a payment every month and keep my 100K in my pocket.

So is the tea bag that is renting one of my houses right now..........or should I say borderline squatting............
He's weathering a bankruptcy very comfortably in my 2800sf custom home!:mad:

I get what you're saying, and if you got the $ to pay it off should the need arise then that's great as long as you do the right thing and pay it off before filing bankruptcy and letting the rest of the hard working folks absorb the cost of your bad decisions or misfortune however the case may be.

I'm more in line with Traxx, except to the extent that I do have 2 houses mortgaged (1 of them not by choice thanks to the irresponsible spending of a great deal of people in the early 2000's).
I do believe that you should only buy what you can afford. For me that means what I can afford to pay cash for (except houses). For others that means what they can scrape togeher to make all the monthly payments!

GoneBoatN
06-21-2013, 03:35 PM
... I doubt it costs 50% to make that boat...

And I hope people know enough not to pay 100% of the sticker...

GoneBoatN
06-21-2013, 03:59 PM
...bankruptcy very comfortably... letting the rest of the hard working folks absorb the cost of your bad decisions or misfortune however the case may be...
...

For this we can thank the greed and avarice of big businesses (financial institutions), our government (elected officials who fail to represent us) and the legal system (or lack of fair and just laws)... Somehow, we lost accountability for our actions along the way. Socialism sucks.

This is one of those rants you could really get going on.

Flip side: Yep, for me the boat is financed and was from day one. That money sits in investments and I'm happy to take the positive delta. That is a financial risk that I'm taking but it has worked out so far to my benefit. If I would have done this a few short years earlier (2001-2004) I would have been slaughtered. As it sits now, I can weather a hit of a certain percentage and if necessary decide to bail and then just pay off the boat. My cars are paid for cash. The house is mostly paid off. I'm getting closer in to my retirement goals. One kid has one foot out the door and the other I get the feeling she will have her college education taken care of; I had kids later in life. This (financing the boat) is not something I would have done 10-15 years ago because I was not in the financial situation to do so. I also keep the boat loan at about resale value so IF I had to it should be a wash or close-enough. Actually, my first boat was paid for with cash but most on here would not have considered it a real boat. Don't get me wrong as I'm not bragging. Nothing in life has been handed to me. I've held a job every day of my life since 14 - in that I (and my family) have been fortunate. I can't take it with me but I can make it work for me to the best of my ability until that time.

Just sayn: Don't put all of us with boat loans into the dead-beat bucket.

Traxx822
06-21-2013, 05:20 PM
I don't think anyone's a deadbeat if they can afford their payments. I just wouldn't want to pay for something that if I sold it I would break even on after paying what my current boat is worth.

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skps190
06-21-2013, 05:52 PM
I have a family member that is completely against debt, which is fine, I'm not a huge fan of it either but with rates being so low (i.e. I'm paying 1.36% on my wife's car) I don't see how you can't not take advantage of that. You could throw darts at the NYSE or NASDAQ listings and make more than 1.36%. Whether or not you make payments to a bank you will still have a payment. Take what you paid for your boat in cash, subtract what you sold it for and then divide it out by the number of months you owned it, there's your payment.

Remember, what someone owes on their boat and what their boat is worth are rarely the same figure. If you didn't own anything, that doesn't mean its not worth anything. Granted I'm sure there are some people out there with some negative equity, but that depends on a number of things.

DBrown2
06-21-2013, 05:53 PM
Well I tried to stay out of this... but as a Banker I see it all day long. Parents have a image to keep up with the "Jones" down the water way or street. This breads to their kids, and now seeing second and third generation of kids learning what they see... they basically spend till they cant get approved to spend more, and then eventually Daddy or the BKC court comes in to aid. In 2-3 years they are back at it again.

That said I would love to own a 120K New X Star... but I will wait 5 years till the depreciation has slowed from a rapid pace, and jump in on a boat.

I have a wealthy wealthy customer who purchased a 100K 2013, 230 Foot Boat no MC, paid 30K down I financed the rest on a Balloon. On the water this weekend his boat was next to a 96 Model of the same Mfg... Knowing both boats both owners... I thought wow for that kind of money it looks exactly the same... My buddy with the older model was like... Wow from the water they look the same age...

Now the 96 doesnt have the fancy transom walk thru, the sink, the toilet etc... but it once again is all relevant to those who care. To the average Joe the boats look the same.

To my point if you can afford a new MC... great have at it... because the more people who buy new... means in 5 years or so I will own their boat. So the economy must carry on...

But for those of you that spend 120% of the 100% you make and live on credit cards... Go see your local banker, cut up your cards and stop the madness before you BKC and we all are paying for your bad mistakes.

GoneBoatN
06-22-2013, 03:33 PM
... But for those of you that spend 120% of the 100% you make and live on credit cards... Go see your local banker, cut up your cards and stop the madness before you BKC and we all are paying for your bad mistakes...

Why should they stop doing this? They living the good life and if something happens (and it will when one lives on the edge or for that matter over the edge), they simply get to walk away from it.

The sad thing is that they don't understand they are trashing their lives. Oh well, someone has gotta live poor because in the end that is where they are headed. Now some would thing that was a rather mean comment but I've stopped feeling sorry for people who will not help/support themselves. Our government needs to get it out of their minds that for some reason we need to foot the bill for these people. And for Mommies and Daddies who continue to foster/enable this behavior in their children, they typically get their payback as well at some point - my in-laws who are in their seventies have their 40-something daughter living in their basement.

Traxx822
06-22-2013, 04:21 PM
Why should they stop doing this? They living the good life and if something happens (and it will when one lives on the edge or for that matter over the edge), they simply get to walk away from it.

The sad thing is that they don't understand they are trashing their lives. Oh well, someone has gotta live poor because in the end that is where they are headed. Now some would thing that was a rather mean comment but I've stopped feeling sorry for people who will not help/support themselves. Our government needs to get it out of their minds that for some reason we need to foot the bill for these people. And for Mommies and Daddies who continue to foster/enable this behavior in their children, they typically get their payback as well at some point - my in-laws who are in their seventies have their 40-something daughter living in their basement.

I know you are speaking theoretical and not directing it at anyone on here. Even if those types are on here they would never admit it. But everything in the last two posts are dead on correct.

My generation will be the rue of our time. Sadly I can not help them.

I own a company that manages foreclosure properties. I can tell you this. People are disgusting. Some are sad situations. But most are just garbage people who live like garbage.

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mikeg205
06-22-2013, 04:28 PM
brother can you spare a dime? We got close to this cuz of easy money and people using their homes as ATM's - but we should start another thread - I wonder how many people actually finance MC's at this rate... people with money usually finance well - unless of course and X-star or G23 is a required part of business and the monthly payment is built into the monthly expenses...any way the new boats are targeted with people who have 8 - 10 million of net worth...