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View Full Version : Reminder: Running the blower, Boat exploded


Quinten
08-24-2012, 06:56 AM
Found this on the internet (wakeworld), boat exploded, but is probaly due a fuel leak.

http://www.gazettenet.com/2012/08/24/early-morning-fire-destroys-boat-on-conn-river-as-occupants-flee
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1777856#post1777856

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7900788/Photos/Forums/boatfire/fire1.png
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7900788/Photos/Forums/boatfire/fire2.png
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7900788/Photos/Forums/boatfire/fire3.png
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7900788/Photos/Forums/boatfire/fire4.png
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7900788/Photos/Forums/boatfire/fire5.png

Looks like a mastercraft to me. I hope this boats isn't from anyone on teamtalk.
Sorry for the loss of that boat.

CantRepeat
08-24-2012, 07:58 AM
I'm pretty sure that will buff out.

mikeg205
08-24-2012, 08:17 AM
I'm pretty sure that will buff out.

omg...that was great Cant...LMFAO....

mikeg205
08-24-2012, 08:21 AM
Love the wakeworld comments...thinking its an MC...I vote for it's an MB... maybe an F-21 Tomcat?

hondaprlud
08-24-2012, 08:29 AM
I'm pretty sure that will buff out.

awesome.

soacj
08-24-2012, 08:51 AM
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7900788/Photos/Forums/boatfire/fire3.png

That wrap is HAWWTTTT!

______________________
Jay

ShawnB
08-24-2012, 08:53 AM
Definitely an X2. Glad everyone survived -- quick thinking by the captain saved five lives.

tideengineer
08-24-2012, 08:54 AM
...wonder what kind of oil he was using....

snork
08-24-2012, 08:58 AM
Love the wakeworld comments...thinking its an MC...I vote for it's an MB... maybe an F-21 Tomcat?

Luckily, the five people on board donned life jackets, jumped into the river and swam to safety before the 2007 Mastercraft power boat was fully engulfed in flames, according to Fire District Two Chief David Keefe.

ttu
08-24-2012, 09:00 AM
Luckily, the five people on board donned life jackets, jumped into the river and swam to safety before the 2007 Mastercraft power boat was fully engulfed in flames, according to Fire District Two Chief David Keefe.

that was my thought also! still sad.

mzimme
08-24-2012, 09:11 AM
Good news is, this guy will probably end up in a brand new boat!

rhsprostar
08-24-2012, 10:42 AM
So what was the cause? Was it a fuel leak and then it blew up when he tried to start it?
Was it because he didn't run the blower?

ntidsl
08-24-2012, 10:44 AM
Once again...reason to start engine with doghouse open!!! Too many peeps drop boat in, start it and go...

mzimme
08-24-2012, 10:51 AM
I drop boat in, start it, and go! (but my doghouse is open during this time). I rarely run my blower. Way easier just to open the lid.

willyt
08-24-2012, 10:55 AM
Once again...reason to start engine with doghouse open!!!

whats a doghouse? there's room for a dog on your 197? don't dogs scratch the vinyl and stuff, leave hair everywhere? I'm so confused

TxsRiverRat
08-24-2012, 11:14 AM
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7900788/Photos/Forums/boatfire/fire5.png



Holy crap - is that TEX? Hahahahahaha

bjames
08-24-2012, 11:26 AM
^ that photo reminds me of JAWS II, when the shark was all burt to t crisp...

bjames
08-24-2012, 11:27 AM
In all seriousness, gladd everyone whas ok.. and I hope the MC owner comes out with a new boat.

milkmania
08-24-2012, 11:29 AM
FIRE SALE: 2007 MC Prop & Rudder for sale......CHEAP!!!!

JimN
08-24-2012, 11:40 AM
Love the wakeworld comments...thinking its an MC...I vote for it's an MB... maybe an F-21 Tomcat?

The article states that it's an MC in the beginning.

JimN
08-24-2012, 11:41 AM
Makes me wonder if someone replaced the fuel pump and didn't line up the screw holes or torque them correctly. Maybe they re-used the gasket or didn't slide the fuel line on all the way.

CantRepeat
08-24-2012, 12:23 PM
Makes me wonder if someone replaced the fuel pump and didn't line up the screw holes or torque them correctly. Maybe they re-used the gasket or didn't slide the fuel line on all the way.

Jim, I assume you are talking about the bolts that mount the pump housing back to the tank. If so, what are those bolts torque to?

JimN
08-24-2012, 12:59 PM
Jim, I assume you are talking about the bolts that mount the pump housing back to the tank. If so, what are those bolts torque to?

I don't remember the spec, but it should be included with a new pump or housing. According to this link, they should be tightened to 5.5 N-m (Newton-meters). If you don't have a way to measure N-m (and we all should), you would use 49 in-lb.

http://www.ls1.com/forums/f6/torque-specs-f-body-fuel-tank-bolts-168164/

Cobra Rob
08-24-2012, 01:01 PM
Once again...reason to start engine with doghouse open!!! Too many peeps drop boat in, start it and go...

That can actually be worse. You are adding more 02 to the area but not getting out any gas fumes. There is a reason the blowers are mounted so low. Gas fumes are heavier than air and sink to the bottom. Opening it up will just stir the air some not get the fumes out.

Covi
08-24-2012, 01:40 PM
That wrap is HAWWTTTT!

______________________
Jay

That's Funny!

19_Skier
08-24-2012, 01:58 PM
I drop boat in, start it, and go! (but my doghouse is open during this time). I rarely run my blower. Way easier just to open the lid.

That is not going to allow potential gas fumes to escape.

I always start mine with the doghouse closed. I visualize it similar to a blasting mat, if it were to explode, let the lid take the brunt of the force instead of my body.

CantRepeat
08-24-2012, 02:01 PM
I don't remember the spec, but it should be included with a new pump or housing. According to this link, they should be tightened to 5.5 N-m (Newton-meters). If you don't have a way to measure N-m (and we all should), you would use 49 in-lb.

http://www.ls1.com/forums/f6/torque-specs-f-body-fuel-tank-bolts-168164/


Great link too!!!

Quinten
08-25-2012, 01:02 PM
That can actually be worse. You are adding more 02 to the area but not getting out any gas fumes. There is a reason the blowers are mounted so low. Gas fumes are heavier than air and sink to the bottom. Opening it up will just stir the air some not get the fumes out.

But by the air the fumes are moving, and it's possible you get to smell it so.

curtish
08-27-2012, 01:53 AM
That wrap is HAWWTTTT!

______________________
Jay

That's just not right. Ok, for the record, I did lol.

onewheat
08-29-2012, 03:07 PM
That is not going to allow potential gas fumes to escape.

I always start mine with the doghouse closed. I visualize it similar to a blasting mat, if it were to explode, let the lid take the brunt of the force instead of my body.

I was just going to say that - but continued reading on to pg 3. I'm surprised no one said that right away. Gas fumes are heavier than air so opening the doghouse does NOTHING to get rid of gas fumes. It may give the explosion a different path when it goes, but it will still go. I ALWAYS use my blower before starting - extra long when the boat has been sitting for a while.

JimN
08-29-2012, 03:09 PM
I was just going to say that - but continued reading on to pg 3. I'm surprised no one said that right away. Gas fumes are heavier than air so opening the doghouse does NOTHING to get rid of gas fumes. It may give the explosion a different path when it goes, but it will still go. I ALWAYS use my blower before starting - extra long when the boat has been sitting for a while.

Unless it's windy- that gets rid of fumes pretty fast.

onewheat
08-29-2012, 03:26 PM
Unless it's windy- that gets rid of fumes pretty fast.

I wouldn't think it would get them out of the bottom of the hull where they settle.

Ever pull a cold boat into a heated garage to work on it? If you are laying on the floor of the boat working under the dash, the interior of the boat will take HOURS to start to warm up, even if the garage is 75 inside. Cold air sinks (like gas fumes) and even with a fan in the garage (like wind) it blows warm air over the top of the boat, but will NOT blow the cold air out and warm air in. That would take a ceiling fan of something in the bottom of the boat blowing the cold air upwards where it could be diluted. Just my :twocents: though. YMMV

JimN
08-29-2012, 03:33 PM
I wouldn't think it would get them out of the bottom of the hull where they settle.

Ever pull a cold boat into a heated garage to work on it? If you are laying on the floor of the boat working under the dash, the interior of the boat will take HOURS to start to warm up, even if the garage is 75 inside. Cold air sinks (like gas fumes) and even with a fan in the garage (like wind) it blows warm air over the top of the boat, but will NOT blow the cold air out and warm air in. That would take a ceiling fan of something in the bottom of the boat blowing the cold air upwards where it could be diluted. Just my :twocents: though. YMMV

Sorry, I meant windy AND the motor box is opened.

mikeg205
08-30-2012, 08:57 AM
The after? http://www.crashedtoys.com/Inventory.aspx?InventoryID=1019887&secid=2&trc=2&langCode=en&tzw=Eastern+Standard+Time&fts=mastercraft

mikeg205
08-30-2012, 08:59 AM
The article states that it's an MC in the beginning.

Good catch for me...just read the wakeworld link....

Jason.H.
08-30-2012, 09:17 AM
I wouldn't think it would get them out of the bottom of the hull where they settle.

Ever pull a cold boat into a heated garage to work on it? If you are laying on the floor of the boat working under the dash, the interior of the boat will take HOURS to start to warm up, even if the garage is 75 inside. Cold air sinks (like gas fumes) and even with a fan in the garage (like wind) it blows warm air over the top of the boat, but will NOT blow the cold air out and warm air in. That would take a ceiling fan of something in the bottom of the boat blowing the cold air upwards where it could be diluted. Just my :twocents: though. YMMV

Maybe run the blower in the garage to warm boat?!? haha hey, it could work!

Quinten
08-30-2012, 09:23 AM
The after? http://www.crashedtoys.com/Inventory.aspx?InventoryID=1019887&secid=2&trc=2&langCode=en&tzw=Eastern+Standard+Time&fts=mastercraft

I think this is an other boat, if you look close to the pictures you see bleu, and the port side is burned on the one I posted, and on the x-star it isn't.
I think the xstar was cached on fire sitting on the trailer, right side of trailer is burned to.

mikeg205
08-30-2012, 10:41 AM
I think this is an other boat, if you look close to the pictures you see bleu, and the port side is burned on the one I posted, and on the x-star it isn't.
I think the xstar was cached on fire sitting on the trailer, right side of trailer is burned to.

still nasty looking...and a good reminder to "be" careful....

but you're right and it's in a different area... I bet that one went right to the dump after the adjuster saw it.

snork
08-30-2012, 11:26 AM
XStar caught on fire sitting on the trailer just before launching at 121 marina on Lake Lewisville

Jason.H.
08-30-2012, 02:05 PM
How in the world does it catch fire while sitting on the trailer?? Bad stereo install causing a spark when key turned mixed with fuel fumes from not running the blower? I guess anything can happen.

PA Prostar
08-30-2012, 04:05 PM
How in the world does it catch fire while sitting on the trailer?? Bad stereo install causing a spark when key turned mixed with fuel fumes from not running the blower? I guess anything can happen.

Could argue apples and oranges, but I had my truck just about catch fire one night from an electrical short. I had the boat and trailer hooked up and I went out to walk the dog before bed. It looked like the lights were left on and dimming from battery drain. When I walked over and opened the door to turn the lights out, I was greeted with a big waft of smoke. I was able to figure out it was coming from the back and electrical nature pretty quickly - so I disconnected the battery. When I took the rear panel out, the converter unit for my tail lights had apparently shorted and was melting. I got a new one, aired out the truck, and everything was fine - thank God. It could have been worse. I figured something with the trailer, and maybe wetness, was causing it to short.

My point is yes, electrical can happen at any time.

mikeg205
08-30-2012, 04:22 PM
How in the world does it catch fire while sitting on the trailer?? Bad stereo install causing a spark when key turned mixed with fuel fumes from not running the blower? I guess anything can happen.

Maybe they were listening to really bad music and the X-star took its own life... :(

snork
08-30-2012, 05:45 PM
How in the world does it catch fire while sitting on the trailer?? Bad stereo install causing a spark when key turned mixed with fuel fumes from not running the blower? I guess anything can happen.

They were about to launch the boat with the trailer backed into the water and when the boat turned over, Woof, they pulled the boat out of the water and disconnected it from the truck then left it there to Burn
Did someone forget to reconnect the vent hose after a fuel pump exchange?

JimN
08-30-2012, 05:49 PM
How in the world does it catch fire while sitting on the trailer?? Bad stereo install causing a spark when key turned mixed with fuel fumes from not running the blower? I guess anything can happen.

The first thing I would ask is "Who installed the stereo and other accessories?". If it has extra batteries and they were wired parallel with no protection, it's asking for big-time trouble. One battery with 800CCA in parallel with another can do a whole lot of damage of a short exists and if the short is metal on heavy terminals with nothing to act as a fuse (even 4 ga can be a fuse in the right situation), you're gonna see smoke. If the batteries aren't secure, ditto.

ttu
05-18-2014, 06:10 PM
came across this 1/o at the lake today. we got there and the driver and passenger had just got out a minute before and were on a pontoon boat. we called 911 and lake patrol

don't know what happened but it is pretty close to the ramp.

TOO-TALL
05-18-2014, 07:25 PM
Wow...

thatsmrmastercraft
05-18-2014, 09:26 PM
I can't imagine what it would be like to watch your boat burn :eek:

mcLove
05-19-2014, 12:15 AM
I'd have to say that first boats was an x2 or x25. It almost looked like the zft4 tower hanging off the side in one of the pics

mcLove
05-19-2014, 12:19 AM
nevermind... can't be x25, they say it was a 2007 model. my bet is all x2 now

bbymgr
05-19-2014, 05:26 AM
I can't imagine what it would be like to watch your boat burn :eek:

It's very surreal.......................trust me.

DonB
05-19-2014, 09:28 AM
I always try to reach back and raise the hood up for a little while before starting as well as running the blower. That would tough to watch your boat burn up.

ttu
05-19-2014, 09:35 AM
i could not believe how quickly it burned. it took maybe 10 minutes for the fire dept to get there.

drschemel
05-19-2014, 10:06 AM
Wow! I'm definitely going to crack the doghouse and at least give it a sniff test before I turn the ignition from now on! I'm not sure I could convince an insurance guy that a new X-star is the appropriate replacement for a 1990 Tristar!

willyt
05-19-2014, 01:36 PM
sniff tests are ok, but the blower is really the thing you need to run. gas fumes are heavier than air so they sit at the bottom of the bilge. i'd honestly be better to sniff the blower exhaust... hahaha

drschemel
05-19-2014, 02:40 PM
sniff tests are ok, but the blower is really the thing you need to run. gas fumes are heavier than air so they sit at the bottom of the bilge. i'd honestly be better to sniff the blower exhaust... hahaha

Agreed, my blower stays on unless I am anchored. The risk would be greatest when you are launching and after sitting a while at anchor or a dock (maybe when you fill the gas). That is when I would lift the dog house to let out any accumulated fumes.

Juiced190
05-19-2014, 02:50 PM
That's a terrifying thing to see! Always, I mean always open the doghouse to inspect before you crank! Your life and more importantly the life of your children are at risk. One day after driving 45 min to the lake, I opened the doghouse to find a pool of gasoline on the intake manifold leaking from the carb. Thankfully I looked before I cranked. My boys were bummed that we didn't get to ski that day but when I explained what could have happened they were relieved.

DonB
05-19-2014, 04:28 PM
Gasoline vapors are pretty fickle, the area between the upper and lower explosive limits have to be just right, but the ignition temperature is under 500 degrees. Running the blower and opening the doghouse is a quick, easy bit of insurance.

H2ORidr
05-19-2014, 05:40 PM
In a previous life at work I did a lot, and I mean a lot of flammable vapor work on isoporpyl alcohol which behaves a lot like gasoline. First off the people that say it sinks are 100% right and it stays there, rock solid as if it were a solid. Put the vapors in a bowl that is open on the top and they will stay there for a long, long time, even with rapid air movement around and across the bowl. The deeper the bowl the longer they will linger. So think of your bilge as a big bowl. No amount of wind on the lake is going to have any effect on the vapors down in the bilge. Opening the dog house is just allowing a new route for the flash to escape should the vapor ignite. So, with an open doghouse if there is a vapor ignition, say goodbye to the hair on your legs. Instead of a foomp and the doghouse popping lose, you are now going to have 2nd and 3rd degree burns on your legs to add to the fun.

Gas itself does not burn, only the vapors. With all liquids there is an upper limit called the UFL and once that is reached, the vapors will not burn. So set gas on a metal surface that is heating up and the gas will boil off and dissipate before it catches fire, unless the metal is above the ignition temp when the liquid is put on it. Suffice it to say you can put gas on the top of an cold engine in a puddle and start the engine and if there is *no spark source* the gas will evaporate and you will not have a fire. I demonstrated it over 100 times with isopropyl alcohol and cold metal tools that were heated up. But put a flammable liquid on a hot tool above the ignition temp and it will boil to form vapors, and then the vapors will ignite instantly. Old school (and crazy) welders can tell you about this when they used to weld on gas tanks that were full. No vapors = no problem.

Most flammable liquids need about 20,000 ppm+ (~2% of air volume which is a good spit ball estimate) to reach ignition even with a spark. This a lot, but not a ton. It is amazing how fast just 30 seconds of air movement and replacement with fresh air can whack a concentration of 80,000 ppm down to well below 20,000 ppm. Gasoline is ~14,000 ppm LFL and an air blower whacks that in very short order even when the area is well above 14K ppm to start.

We found in that lab that with decent air movement 15-30 seconds is needed. Thus the reason that 3 minutes+ is suggested by most boat manufacturers because it allows at least a 5X safety factor. The key here is that the blower is bringing in fresh air, not just moving the air around. It is replacing the air that might have flammable vapors in it with fresh air that doe NOT have vapors in it. So fresh air and a blower cut the vapors down fast to below the LFL and the result is no fire. Also, opening up the doghouse is going to impact how the air circulates and thwart how the blower was designed to move the air. This could cause the air to not be replaced as quickly as it was intended.

Bottom line, follow what the manufacturer suggests. If they write it down in the owner's manual and you follow it and you have a problem, then you can say they were wrong. If they say leave the blower going for 3 minutes, you can be assured they know that will work. Change doing what they say (ie opening the doghouse) and you could be up a creek with a burned boat and they are not going to care. Follow the manufacturer's instructions. Trust me, I are edgjamcated and I are a doctor (PhD in chemistry).

drschemel
05-19-2014, 05:52 PM
excellent explanation. I think most of us talking about opening the dog house mean you should look for gas leaks or smell (my idea) for excessive fumes. I know they sink, but there will be enough up higher up to smell. The human nose can detect 0.25 parts per million and is fairly accurate about estimating concentration in a gross sense. If you do it consistently, you will get an idea of normal gas smell for your boat. Then, if it looks (smells) good, close the doghouse and let the blower work.

thatsmrmastercraft
05-19-2014, 06:11 PM
H2ORidr.......thanks for the great explanation. :toast:

H2ORidr
05-19-2014, 07:08 PM
H2ORidr.......thanks for the great explanation. :toast:

Once in a while I get to use those neurons in my brain. My current work does not use chemistry. Chemical problems are easy to solve, then we have to turn it over to the engineers to scale it up, and that is where things fall apart. So I have been doing their jobs too. :D

JimN
05-19-2014, 07:27 PM
Once in a while I get to use those neurons in my brain. My current work does not use chemistry. Chemical problems are easy to solve, then we have to turn it over to the engineers to scale it up, and that is where things fall apart. So I have been doing their jobs too. :D

So, you're saying it was a good thing that I unplugged the opener and turned my compressor off when I was spraying nitrocellulose lacquer in my garage yesterday?:D

H2ORidr
05-19-2014, 10:51 PM
So, you're saying it was a good thing that I unplugged the opener and turned my compressor off when I was spraying nitrocellulose lacquer in my garage yesterday?:D

Did ya wear a full respirator so you looked like you were running a meth lab? I heard the neighbors love that.

Funny story: a good friend of mine is into woodworking with white oak lumber. And he does not stain it he uses "fuming" which is basically sealing the pieces of finished chairs and stuff in a plastic tent with ammonia which causes the wood to get dark. Think Stickley furniture and you get the idea. He lives in classic surburbia where the houses are ~20' apart. One day, the house across the street from him is for sale. But he needs to fume some oak. So he gets his plastic tent assembled in the front of his garage and he gets into a bunny suit, full respirator and he gets to fuming a full family room set. About mid fuming the realtor pulls up with some potential clients. They see him in his full clown suit, they look at him, they look at the house for sale, then they just shook their heads and the realtor drove off with the clients. They never even got out of the car. :uglyhamme

JimN
05-20-2014, 07:45 AM
Did ya wear a full respirator so you looked like you were running a meth lab? I heard the neighbors love that.

Funny story: a good friend of mine is into woodworking with white oak lumber. And he does not stain it he uses "fuming" which is basically sealing the pieces of finished chairs and stuff in a plastic tent with ammonia which causes the wood to get dark. Think Stickley furniture and you get the idea. He lives in classic surburbia where the houses are ~20' apart. One day, the house across the street from him is for sale. But he needs to fume some oak. So he gets his plastic tent assembled in the front of his garage and he gets into a bunny suit, full respirator and he gets to fuming a full family room set. About mid fuming the realtor pulls up with some potential clients. They see him in his full clown suit, they look at him, they look at the house for sale, then they just shook their heads and the realtor drove off with the clients. They never even got out of the car. :uglyhamme

Nice! I know what fuming is and I know the smell- it uses anhydrous ammonia, which was/is also used for making blueprints. Ammonia from a grocery store works too, but it's less pure.