PDA

View Full Version : Surf wave size & shape opinoins please


Traxx822
08-20-2012, 10:52 AM
Been messing with surfing for a week now. Different balast configs, speeds, etc etc. I know a lot of you guys have more experience in wake shaping. Is there any tips that anyone can see from the photo I'd appreciate it. Also the guy on the board its his first time and not me. Also the board is the new Humanoid Flux i just bought becasue I hated the Ronix Koal. The flux is a board for the whole family. Up first try for everyone and surfing and having fun.

V-man
08-20-2012, 03:22 PM
Your surf wake actually looks pretty decent. How does it surf? Could you post your setup: Model, ballast configuration and weight, speed, trim tab, passengers. etc...

Specter
08-20-2012, 03:31 PM
I agree, looks good. I'm also interested in your setup.

ShawnB
08-20-2012, 03:37 PM
My X25 wave looks like that.

Traxx822
08-20-2012, 06:52 PM
I had about 500#'s in port locker and 300# in starboard and 200# in bow as ballast. Also spread around that day in passengers I had another 300ish pounds of weight sitting on each side of the bow; me the driver @ #175# and a 100# girl in the observer seat (taking the photo you see of my friend surfing his first time). Running 9mph at around 2700-2900 rpm depending (I don't have perfect pass) I have a 1995 Maristar 200vrs. 4 blade prop indimar

And if it looks like your X25 I think I have got it figured out as far as my boat goes. It surfs great. So I have been told without perfect pass I am the only driver so far that can manage to hold this shape consistently so for me it surfs just meh until the perfect pass comes in. (already ordered)

Capt. Jack
08-20-2012, 09:01 PM
I have an 05 X Star with the fly high kit and I load stock KGB, stock Port and partial port fly high depending on the passengers and mine surfs fine between 10 and 12. I have surfed behind a number of boats and it all comes down to weight, we always find a polite way to sit our larger friends in the back left corner. I have heard arguments for weighting the front vs. the back center all I can say is if you are having fun and you can surf without the rope not much else matters. Also if you want to surf without the rope it is a lot easier if you keep the wake clean like yours is, sometimes without enough people or ballast the dirty part of the wave catches my back leg and slows me down too much.

kalamalka
08-21-2012, 12:42 AM
Wave looks good to me and we surf a lot. honestly not even close to the wave that i was expecting to see when i scrolled down!a

LiquidForce
08-21-2012, 05:36 AM
Hi,

I don't want to be a smart *** here, but: PLEASE get yourself a decent wakesurf handle and immediately stop using the wakeboard line!!! Especially collecting the line in your hand like in the picture is VERY DANGEROUS. If you fall and get tangled into the rope you might loose and arm or hand!!! The thin wakeboard line will cut like a knife, even at very low speeds. A wakesurf rope is much thicker and the handle much smaller in order to avoid accidents. Please invest those 30$. And always shorten the rope on the boat side, never coil up the rope in your hand. Never.

I have a 2006 X2 with the FlyHigh Kit and we surf with stock port, kgb and FlyHigh port bag all completely filled. Usually three people on the boat which usually sit on the port side as well. We adjust the speed to get a nicely shaped wake. Works pretty well. Your wake looks nice.

Traxx822
08-21-2012, 06:40 AM
Hi,

I don't want to be a smart *** here, but: PLEASE get yourself a decent wakesurf handle and immediately stop using the wakeboard line!!! Especially collecting the line in your hand like in the picture is VERY DANGEROUS. If you fall and get tangled into the rope you might loose and arm or hand!!! The thin wakeboard line will cut like a knife, even at very low speeds. A wakesurf rope is much thicker and the handle much smaller in order to avoid accidents. Please invest those 30$. And always shorten the rope on the boat side, never coil up the rope in your hand. Never.

When someone falls its throttle off not go around, and fyi you are looking at a Marine veteran (in photo) and you're talking to an Army veteran. The risks of the rope were all portrayed to each other and the rope was shortened right after this run. I already have a line ordered on ebay since last Tuesday.

Also if you look close he is holding with his left hand & with only two fingers the slack and handle in his right have 3 loops made and are in front of him not behind. Your advice was sound but you didn't realize you were looking at a war veteran that received safety instruction and coaching on the rope and its dangers before and during that run and was shortened pronto because even a novice can figure that stuff out.

Glad you pointed it out so that anyone else seeing the photo did not assume that is safe practice but it was rude to insinuate that I had zero safety in mind and zero correct equipment ordered or in mind. I'm a pilot, a veteran, I've employed 8 in construction for the last 6 years with no injuries . Safety is my middle name. Next time just raise awareness and don't call someone out to look stupid please.

CantRepeat
08-21-2012, 06:52 AM
When someone falls its throttle off not go around, and fyi you are looking at a Marine veteran (in photo) and you're talking to an Army veteran. The risks of the rope were all portrayed to each other and the rope was shortened right after this run. I already have a line ordered on ebay since last Tuesday.



Thanks for your service. I don't understand what that has to do with using a longer rope? Was there some training I missed out on? :D I can't match up rappelling from a Blackhawk to wake surfing. :D

LiquidForce
08-21-2012, 07:00 AM
I was trying not be offensive in any way, apologies if my post in any way sounded like that. English is not my mother tongue, so this might have contributed to my lines sounding a bit rude.

But unfortunately there is no way of telling how people think and behave by just looking at a picture. At the end we all want to have fun with our great hobby and I think it is more than ok that potential dangers are pointed out, especially here where a lot of people are seeking advice.

I once fell when starting to wakesurf and got the wakesurf (not wakeboard) line around my arm when I nosedived. At that point in time we've been wakeboarding for more than 10 years, so we know how to drive, i.e. immediately shut the throttle when someone falls. I can assure you that with a wakeboard line I would have been really badly hurt, since my arm was soar and blue for weeks and the first layers of skin were torn off where the rope had been wrapped around my arm. The boat simply does not stop fast enough, believe me. The drag your body creates when you go under water is enormous.

Again, no offense at all just wanted to point out an issue some of the readers here might not be aware of. My accident scared the hell out of me and I can't imagine what could have happened with a thin no-stretch line.

Traxx822
08-21-2012, 07:31 AM
I was trying not be offensive in any way, apologies if my post in any way sounded like that. English is not my mother tongue, so this might have contributed to my lines sounding a bit rude.

No worries, But it did sound like you assumed we were the most unsafe surfers out there. Next time you point out issues you see, don't assume the worst. Half of your suggestions like wrapping it around his hand ... it kinda looks like that in the photo but that was not the case at all ... weren't even issues in the photo. Good points for others but not an issue here for me.

Not to mention the assumption that i'm too cheap to spend $30 on a surf rope and handle.

And its not like he pulled up with the line and not the handle and I did see how it looked before posting but it was the best shot I had of the wave thus why I used it.

FourFourty
08-21-2012, 07:48 AM
When someone falls its throttle off not go around, and fyi you are looking at a Marine veteran (in photo) and you're talking to an Army veteran. The risks of the rope were all portrayed to each other and the rope was shortened right after this run. I already have a line ordered on ebay since last Tuesday.

Also if you look close he is holding with his left hand & with only two fingers the slack and handle in his right have 3 loops made and are in front of him not behind. Your advice was sound but you didn't realize you were looking at a war veteran that received safety instruction and coaching on the rope and its dangers before and during that run and was shortened pronto because even a novice can figure that stuff out.

Glad you pointed it out so that anyone else seeing the photo did not assume that is safe practice but it was rude to insinuate that I had zero safety in mind and zero correct equipment ordered or in mind. I'm a pilot, a veteran, I've employed 8 in construction for the last 6 years with no injuries . Safety is my middle name. Next time just raise awareness and don't call someone out to look stupid please.


No offense, but your post contradicts itself...... Safety is your middle name, but because you are aware of the risks with the wakeboard line, its ok to use it?

Ironic story for you- A Marine got his leg torn up on my lake last year, surfing behind an I/O....... Just because you have had safety training, doesn't mean it is a good idea to do something that you know is unsafe...... **** happens, no matter how awesome you are.

I realize that you have the correct rope on order, and that you know the risks. No need to jump down somebody's throat, for pointing out that you were doing something stupid. Especially when you know it is stupid.

CantRepeat
08-21-2012, 07:58 AM
No offense, but your post contradicts itself...... Safety is your middle name, but because you are aware of the risks with the wakeboard line, its ok to use it?

Ironic story for you- A Marine got his leg torn up on my lake last year, surfing behind an I/O....... Just because you have had safety training, doesn't mean it is a good idea to do something that you know is unsafe...... **** happens, no matter how awesome you think you are.

I realize that you have the correct rope on order, and that you know the risks. No need to jump down somebody's throat, for pointing out that you were doing something stupid. Especially when you know it is stupid.

Fixed that up for you. :D

ttu
08-21-2012, 07:59 AM
No offense, but your post contradicts itself...... Safety is your middle name, but because you are aware of the risks with the wakeboard line, its ok to use it?

Ironic story for you- A Marine got his leg torn up on my lake last year, surfing behind an I/O....... Just because you have had safety training, doesn't mean it is a good idea to do something that you know is unsafe...... **** happens, no matter how awesome you are.

I realize that you have the correct rope on order, and that you know the risks. No need to jump down somebody's throat, for pointing out that you were doing something stupid. Especially when you know it is stupid.

i have to agree with your post 100%

Traxx822
08-21-2012, 08:07 AM
Fixed that up for you. :D

Your a ****, I've read a lot of your posts your not too nice are you. The guy I was talking to assumed we are completely unsafe and asserts the idea that I don't have $30 to get the right rope. There is a way to suggest things. There is a way not to. By depriving me of my character is not the way to do it. nuph sed

Nothing unsafe about that photo or the Marine surfing or me the boat driver. Period

Traxx822
08-21-2012, 08:09 AM
^^^ meant to quote the 44 guy. my bad

LiquidForce
08-21-2012, 08:24 AM
I removed my post since I believe there will be no further value added by myself.

CantRepeat
08-21-2012, 08:25 AM
Your a ****, I've read a lot of your posts your not too nice are you. The guy I was talking to assumed we are completely unsafe and asserts the idea that I don't have $30 to get the right rope. There is a way to suggest things. There is a way not to. By depriving me of my character is not the way to do it. nuph sed

Nothing unsafe about that photo or the Marine surfing or me the boat driver. Period

You're being pretty sensitive for a Soldier. For the 24 years I was in if you were doing something even remotely unsafe you could expect to get yourself hammered pretty hard and it was never in a nice way. In the Army NO ONE suggest things, you are told you are wrong and not in a nice way so I know you are used to it. Stop making such a big deal out of someone giving you some friendly and nice advise on what not to do while boating. Everyone here does it to everyone that post. Well, maybe not Scott, he thinks everyone is a fuddy duddy. 8p

Traxx822
08-21-2012, 08:37 AM
So cantrepeat. Then you know better than most that sometimes to figure out the right way is to try the wrong way first. The photo you see is of the first pull of the day for surf. None of the posts were to suggest that others should be safe. They were that I was the example of unsafe. And in the Army I was tought to defend my intellectual capacity to its fullest. You can call me sensitive but the truth is all I said was your wrong about me, this is who I am, I noticed it was long and told him exactly how I wanted him to choke up so I could see exactly where to tie it off on the next run. The rope was then tossed away and the boat stopped and retied. You of all people should think a Marine can handle that.

They were all good points. All I said was I'm not an idiot. Then someone else compares this photo to some idiot surfing behind an I/O ... thats not even in the same world as a slightly long rope.

willyt
08-21-2012, 08:38 AM
Finally, some entertainment around here

Traxx822
08-21-2012, 08:46 AM
Finally, some entertainment around here

I see you're from Ohio so I understand. j/k I like the riddle.

CantRepeat
08-21-2012, 08:54 AM
So cantrepeat. Then you know better than most that sometimes to figure out the right way is to try the wrong way first. The photo you see is of the first pull of the day for surf. None of the posts were to suggest that others should be safe. They were that I was the example of unsafe. And in the Army I was tought to defend my intellectual capacity to its fullest. You can call me sensitive but the truth is all I said was your wrong about me, this is who I am, I noticed it was long and told him exactly how I wanted him to choke up so I could see exactly where to tie it off on the next run. The rope was then tossed away and the boat stopped and retied. You of all people should think a Marine can handle that.

They were all good points. All I said was I'm not an idiot. Then someone else compares this photo to some idiot surfing behind an I/O ... thats not even in the same world as a slightly long rope.

Fair enough.

You're new to TT so let me suggest to you that no one here really has any malice towards other users. It's not that kind of forum/board. Most everyone here is just looking to learn, share and have fun boating.

Good luck on your surf wake. We all look forward to seeing your photos so go ahead and post away.

And me of all people know that service members tend to do dangerous stuff because they think they are bullet proof when in fact they are not. It's not a question of your abilities or what you can handle, it's called force protection.

Be safe brother and again, thanks for serving Our great country! /cheers

Traxx822
08-21-2012, 08:59 AM
Fair enough.

You're new to TT so let me suggest to you that no one here really has any malice towards other users. It's not that kind of forum/board. Most everyone here is just looking to learn, share and have fun boating.

Good luck on your surf wake. We all look forward to seeing your photos so go ahead and post away.

And me of all people know that service members tend to do dangerous stuff because they think they are bullet proof when in fact they are not. It's not a question of your abilities or what you can handle, it's called force protection.

Be safe brother and again, thanks for serving Our great country! /cheers

No problem battle. I'll keep the perspective clear.

FourFourty
08-21-2012, 09:12 AM
Your a ****.


Whines about people degrading his character, and starts name calling in the same thread...... Seriously, where does the irony end...

Don't get all butthurt. LiquidForce was only trying to save your fingers, arms, neck, etc....

You were doing something stupid, you knew it was the incorrect way (which is the key point), and then you get all defensive when somebody points it out. Get over it, and welcome to the internet.

Traxx822
08-21-2012, 09:26 AM
Not my first forum, clearly the rudest by far. ^^^ And I know all forums give me one unwritten warning and censor without any real trouble. Glad I got to use it on you. Any comments about my wave would be appreciated. I'm done defending my rope usage in this one photo.

Sullivan
08-21-2012, 09:44 AM
All of this about a handle, Traxx822 you need to calm down. I don't see anything that anyone said that you should let bother you. One thing I have learned about forums is to not get wrapped up in every little thing people post. Take the good advice and leave the rest, otherwise you can take a good thread about improving your surf wake and destroy it into this.

Thanks for your service and welcome to TT, the guys on here are really pretty cool.

Sullivan
08-21-2012, 09:46 AM
Back to topic, to fix that wake you need to sell your boat, buy a 197, crank Zero Off up to 36 and put a slalom ski on!

mzimme
08-21-2012, 10:00 AM
No worries, But it did sound like you assumed we were the most unsafe surfers out there. Next time you point out issues you see, don't assume the worst. Half of your suggestions like wrapping it around his hand ... it kinda looks like that in the photo but that was not the case at all ... weren't even issues in the photo. Good points for others but not an issue here for me.

Not to mention the assumption that i'm too cheap to spend $30 on a surf rope and handle.

And its not like he pulled up with the line and not the handle and I did see how it looked before posting but it was the best shot I had of the wave thus why I used it.

What this looks like to me is that you assume that he assumes that you don't know the proper way to do things. See where all these assumptions get us? I don't know what being in the Army has to do with fixing stupid. Stupid is everywhere, even in the Army. Are you stupid? I don't think so... but don't go acting like someone pi$$ed in your cheerios just because you read something you didn't want to hear.

Welcome to the forum, wake looks good... wish I could get a surf wave like that.

Traxx822
08-21-2012, 10:03 AM
It's you guys that need to calm down. My point of saying that he was and I am a veteran was not to apply a need for gratitude. It was so you guys could understand that we have better abilities to take direction and have safety in mind than your average bear.

somehow that makes me look like a bad guy. Everything is lost in translation and I wasn't being mean but giving my explanation and asking nicely to not make assumptions like that. Then everyone else started in.

So can we stay on topic or bury this thread.

Traxx822
08-21-2012, 10:08 AM
I had a few more questions I wanted this thread to answer. One already about being clean on the top edge was already answered. But I am finding that I take on water while surfing. Its worse at a slower speed say 4-5mph pushing water hard. but at 9-10mph almost no water is taken on. on plane or idle nothing at all as far as water gets in the boat. I thought maybe it was the bearing needed repacked or adjusted so I had it repacked at the marina service where I keep my boat in the water. And it din't get better or worse. Could this be coming from the rub rail being at the water line?

willyt
08-21-2012, 10:10 AM
And in the Army I was tought to defend my intellectual capacity to its fullest.

only funny because of the context (you'll see you can't take me very seriously around here most of the time).

anyway, i would say the wave looks tall, but the pocket doesn't seem very long, which could be caused by only running 9mph. I know all boats surf differently but my star cleans up around 11, buddy's X2 is around 10.5 i think. I would try going a little faster and see if that lengthens the pocket.

mzimme
08-21-2012, 10:10 AM
Well, no offense to you or any other service vets out there, but it doesn't take military training to learn that wrapping a rope around your hand can cause serious injury in the event of a fall, where the boat will still be pulling. People are only looking out for others here, I can't seem to find where anyone was rude about a few safety precautions. The correct way to respond to someone giving you friendly advice to keep yourself safe would have been to say something along the lines of "Thanks for the advice, we'll take those things into account." Coming off saying "I'm in the Army, he's in Marines, she's in the Coast Guard, and he swims with dolphins... so we know what we're doing. BTW, did you know that I'm in the Army, he's in the Marines, shes in the Coast Guard, and he swims with dolphins... so we're not stupid" doesn't exactly give off the vibe that you're thankful for advice. It gives off the vibe that you don't care what others are suggesting, and that you've got everything under control because of some different background in the past.

Just trying to point out where the butthurt came from. Again, no offense.

LiquidForce
08-21-2012, 10:20 AM
I'll kick back in. Guess all points are taken, so let's get back to topic.

As said your wake looks good to me. We were fiddling around with our setup on the weekend which we should have done a long time ago. Our findings, which may not be valid for other boats though:

- Adding ballast in the front of the boat tends to make the wake less steep but longer, thus making it possible to surf farther away from the boat. Less steep wake needs better skills, small mistakes will quickly take you behind the wake

- If the "unclean" part of the wave gets over your back foot it slows you down pretty fast. Every wake does that, but you can influence the spot where the wake breaks. If the wake breaks very close to the boat, try adding some speed but let PerfectPass (which I recommend) do its job and get the boat settled at the new speed before changing again, response on mine is a bit slow for surfing but I do not have the nerves to change the PP parameters since they work great for wakeboarding. Fiddling with the speed is faster and easier than fiddling with ballast.

- Steeper and shorter wakes seem to be better for beginners to learn to find the "sweet spot" while longer less steep wakes are more fun for me as an intermediate. I'm currently working on the 360, didn't quite get it done up to now.

- Surf style boards are harder to get up with since they float much better but are easier to ride since the big fins keep the back of the board "nailed" to the wake. Wakeboard style (I do not know the correct name for those boards, might be skim boards) are easier for beginners to get up with but harder to ride since they usally have smaller fins.

Play with your setup and give your most frequent riders a chance to find their preferred setup.

I think your wake should suit everyone very well, it is just a question of trimming this already good wake towards your preferences. I think playing around is key. Last weekend I removed the already very little fins on my wakeboard completely and now I am even happier with my more than 5 year old board.

Play. Explore. Discover. Enjoy.

Traxx822
08-21-2012, 10:22 AM
I don't suggest anything. fyi mzimme And it is not wrapped around his hand at all.

I'll try picking it up to 10-11 with more practice for now but without the perfect pass anything over 9mph is hard as heck to maintain without 100's of rpm changes up and down.

LiquidForce
08-21-2012, 10:29 AM
I can't imagine how hard is has to be without PP. We surf somewhere between 10.6 and 11.2mph (17-18 kmh) with PP.

Traxx822
08-21-2012, 10:36 AM
only funny because of the context (you'll see you can't take me very seriously around here most of the time).

touche haha

Liquid it is tough and thats why I said the surf is just meh for me. and between you and me I was mad at 440's comment. I was just explaining the latter. I can see how my reply to you could be taken the wrong way if read in pieces. And your last post did help confirm things my trials and errors in testing have told me.

Did anyone have any ideas about how i'm taking on water?

LiquidForce
08-21-2012, 10:47 AM
Traxx, I bet in real life we would have understood what both sides were talking about from the beginning on. So let's go on with some wake & water talk :)

I think you are picking up water because of the low speed, but I that is just a very wild guess. I don't fill my bow and the X2 almost takes on water when going over an other boats medium sized wake if I do not add speed to get over the roller.

Where exactly are you taking on water?

mzimme
08-21-2012, 10:54 AM
You have any leaking ballast?

Traxx822
08-21-2012, 10:58 AM
It isn't leaky ballast I already thought that due to the speed it accumulated and amount there was. I mean full in 1/4 mile to the screw cap.

Traxx822
08-21-2012, 11:01 AM
I was worried it might be the rubrail since it is below the water line at the molded swim platform but my local mechanic is looking into that today. But it takes on so much at 5mph maybe the intake pickup under the port bunk is scooping too much i'm really confused. If I go 9mph vs 5mph it is only 1/10th the amount.

g-mantrix
01-08-2013, 04:52 PM
I don't fill my bow and the X2 almost takes on water when going over an other boats medium sized wake if I do not add speed to get over the roller.



Hi Liquidforce, you have an X2, is that correct? I have an 07 X2 and playin around with surf wave, I have full fly high bags installed, rear and bow, also additional sacs if needed to be placed around the boat. What is you best set up with ballast and speed from your X2? Also any pics you could put up for me to reference...cheers

brucemac
01-08-2013, 05:15 PM
i have a surf specific rope and we always have extra coils when we're getting set in the pocket