PDA

View Full Version : First Hiccup with my '02 PS 209......


rabooze
08-30-2005, 04:01 PM
On Sunday I was out skiing with some friends. As we winded the day down, we stopped at a local rope swing on the lake for some fun. Lots of people had parked in the cove and were playing around. When we went to leave, the boat would turn over but not start. Sounded like it was out of gas, though it had half a tank. Fortunately, there was a fellow MC owner there with their Maristar. He happened to be going near where we had put in, which was not close, and he towed us in. The shop says it is the fuel modular, which I assume is the fuel pump. They said it was burned up. Costing $750 to replace but it will be ready for the big weekend. Question I have is at 335 hours, is this normal or was this out of the ordinary? How about the cost? Thanks for any unput!

east tx skier
08-30-2005, 04:02 PM
Over 13 years and 600 hours on my fuel pump (knock wood). Sorry for your troubles, but glad you had a buddy there to tow you in.

G-man
08-30-2005, 04:09 PM
In tank fuel pumps don't like to be run with low fuel in the tank. They have to work harder and don't have fuel around them to cool them. Also they don't like to be run dry.

DanC
08-30-2005, 05:46 PM
I read a lot about fuel pumps being replaced on the newer boats with less than 100s of hours. And fuel pumps being replaced multiple times. And it is not a MasterCraft thing, I read about it on the Malibu, wakeboard and Correct Craft sites. It seems to be systematic. Gotta question the robustness of the OEM supplier of the newer type (in tank, high pressure) fuel pumps. As George said, they don't like to be run dry. Also gotta wonder if some technicians might be blaming the fuel pump when the problem is something else

Diesel
08-30-2005, 06:09 PM
I read a lot about fuel pumps being replaced on the newer boats with less than 100s of hours. And fuel pumps being replaced multiple times. And it is not a MasterCraft thing, I read about it on the Malibu, wakeboard and Correct Craft sites. It seems to be systematic. Gotta question the robustness of the OEM supplier of the newer type (in tank, high pressure) fuel pumps. As George said, they don't like to be run dry. Also gotta wonder if some technicians might be blaming the fuel pump when the problem is something else

FWIW my wife is on her second in the tank fuel pump on her 03 Yukon. First one went at 20K. She does consistently see how far she can make it with the low fuel light on. The first pump died shortly after she ran dry one day "pushing the envelope".

rodltg2
08-30-2005, 06:18 PM
its normal, got to love those fuel pumps.

zberger
08-30-2005, 06:47 PM
750 bucks for a fuel pump.........good lord.

erkoehler
08-30-2005, 06:54 PM
The one that I bought was around 300 and it is an external one.

DanC
08-30-2005, 07:17 PM
The one that I bought was around 300 and it is an external one.

Different animal.
$750 may not be a good deal but it sounds like it's in the ballpark. I think I have heard the pump itself is $500-750. The pump in my van is more like $900.

erkoehler
08-30-2005, 08:27 PM
Just for my information, what is the advantage to having it in the tank? Why was the system changed?

rektek
08-30-2005, 10:00 PM
most modern cars have in tank fuel pumps, my guess is it's cheaper to build, that way you get the tank from the vendor with sending unit and pump all ready to go, most have combined sending unit and fuel pump that's why they are so high in price, you're also replacing the sending unit which there's nothing wrong with it.

in-tank fuel pumps are lubricated just like any other electronic fuel pump, by the fuel, I think running the tank dry causing premature failure is garbage, POOR quality is the foremost reason, take one of those pumps apart and you will find the brushes totally gone.

someone handy could easily remove the sending unit and take the pump out of it's shell and match it up from a automotive parts house. $30-40 a/c delco, bendix etc.

mastercraft should replace or recall all of them that are in the affected serial number range, I see so many posts about fuel pumps faults.

unfortunately sometimes it takes class action lawsuits to get manufactures to budge.

ProStarMike
08-30-2005, 10:43 PM
I've replaced multiple in-tank pumps tinkering around with my other hobby (late model Mustangs). Even aftermarket in-tank pumps with higher capacity than OEM (typically measured in Liters Per Hour, or LPH) are only in the $100 - $150 range for the part. I can't imagine what is so special about the in-tank pump in a boat vs. a car that makes it cost $500+. Then again, I have not researched the boat's EFI and tank system. I'll probably do that when my EFI pump goes out! :)

In-tank fuel pumps do typically give you a longer useful life when you do things to make their life easier: Don't constantly run the tank at low fuel levels and change your fuel filter yearly.

See if you can get the old part from the dealer after they make the repair to your PS209, and snap a picture of it so we can see if it is similar to an automotive in-tank pump.

Glad you'll be back on the water in time for Labor Day!

-- Mike

209mike
08-31-2005, 12:03 AM
I also have an 02 209. My fuel pump also went out probably around 200 hours. Purchased one while on vacation installed it myself in 15 minutes, very easy job. I returned home I contacted my dealer and he explained that he had replaced several pumps from the 02 models he sold. I was told the manufacturer of the pump decided to save a few dollars by installing a plastic impellar. Didn't work. I was reimbursed directly from Mastercraft. Hey have you replaced your trailer axles yet? Oh what fun!

FlyingFreeman
08-31-2005, 12:51 AM
I had a similar experience with my boat. It had been run out of fuel a couple of times by the previous owner, so suspecting the fuel pump as the source of the problem was at the top of the list.

It turns out the the GM Delphi weather pack connector which connect the engine harness to the fuel pump harness was the problem. The female part of the connector's pin was sort of bent (this must have been this way since assembly at the factory). The connector performed for about 240 hours without incident, but the connection just became worse and cause the boat to die. I was able to get it to restart, but it was unreliable.

I have pasted my previous post below. Check your voltages, connections, and ohm the wiring from the relay to the pump connector before you buy a pump. Call the guys at MyMastercraft (Charlotte). They gave me a much better deal than the one your being quoted. Replacing the pump in the PS197 takes about 30 minutes. You'll need the fuel line quick connector release tool to remove the fuel lines (my pump is a return type with a pressure line and a return line, and one hose for the tank vent for a total of 3 hoses).

By the way, the pumps are made by Federal Mogul and branded as Carter. I'm sure you could replace the pump with an automotive pump, but it might be difficult to find the exact replacement. If you remove your's and dissassemble it, you'll see what I'm talking about.

I installed a new pump, but I probably could have solved my problem if I had found the bad connection first.

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=3554&page=9&pp


Previous post below
************************************************** *

I recently purchased an 02 TT PS197 with an LQ9. After a few outings, the boat shut off and wouldn't start. I couldn't hear the fuel pump running, but the boat restarted after a few minutes of trying. This phenomena recurred on my next outing, so I decided to search for the problem. A phone call to the dealer suggested a fuel pump replacement. The old pump was running, but it didn't seem to be making proper pressure (because the boat wouldn't even idle).

After installing the new pump, the new pump wouldn't run. Reinstalled the old pump and it would run (but the boat would not). Put the new pump back it, now it was running (and so was the boat). Launched the boat and it shut off again.

Long story short, it turns out the Delphi GM weatherpak connector between the pump relay and the pump (it's located at the rear of the engine near the relay box which connects the pump wiring harness to the engine harness) has a poor connection. Even though the voltage at the pump was equal to the battery charge (12.55 volts in my case with the pump disconnected), the poor connection was not detected until I ohmed the wire from the output side of the relay to the fuel pump itself. I was able to prove this connector as the point of failure during testing because the connector became warm/hot during testing when the boat was acting up.

Contact cleaner did not solve the problem, and I will likely remove the connector and solder the wires together. The connector was likely placed here for ease of factory assembly with this engine being installed in multiple vessels
************************************************** **

FlyingFreeman
08-31-2005, 08:30 AM
Remember to check your kill switch. If your gauges respond after turning the key on, then it's o.k.

If your gauges do not move (after the normal startup delay), then check your kill switch.

gregg
08-31-2005, 09:57 AM
Just for my information, what is the advantage to having it in the tank? Why was the system changed?

High pressure fuel pumps can push fuel, but not pull it out of a fuel tank. Some Fords, in the early years of fuel injection used a low pressure lift pump in each fuel tank (pickups ect with dual tanks) to push the fuel into a high pressure pump mounted on the frame rail. One thing I can tell you for sure is 90% of fuel premature pump failures in the automotive world are caused by plugged fuel filters. Fuel systems are free flowing and excess fuel unused by the engine is returned to the tank. When a pump is dead headed or trying to pump thru a restriction it will destroy it in a very short time.

SteveO
08-31-2005, 10:57 AM
I ran mine dry and burned up the feul pump this summer. It set me back just under $500 installed by the dealer.

wiltok
08-31-2005, 01:37 PM
I'm pretty paranoid about this - don't generally run less than 1/2 tank. Kinda sucks for slalom but it's good for wakeboarding.

JDK
08-31-2005, 02:06 PM
The pump in my van is more like $900.

How in the world do you think the car/truck companies are going to re-coupe their costs after they've given away their product.....like they are right now with all of the incentives being offered:o?

Just hope you don't need to do the rear brakes on a new 3/4 ton pick-up........I've heard it's $1200 using GM parts :eek: