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tr6coug
08-07-2012, 03:04 AM
First off, much thanks to Skeeler for donating some old ballast timers for experimenting with!

I finally have a ballast timer solution that works. After a few beers and some reverse engineering, I was able to rewrite the firmware that controls the ballast timer. I got rid of all of the crappy logic that they tried to use to detect when the tanks are empty. They now work as a timed switch that will fill/empty for a set amount of time then turn off. No more turning them on only to have them shut off after 5 seconds.

Now, to reprogram them is not for the feint of heart. You need to pull the timer box, remove the modules, take the modules apart, connect a programmer, reprogram, then reassemble. It also requires a special programmer and the correct firmware file. But, if anyone on here is as big of a geek about this stuff as I am, you have the tools and you want to reprogram your timers, let me know, I'll send you the file and tell you how to do it.

Here is a picture of the setup I used but you can use other programmers also.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/x2coug/2012-06-30_14-23-05_478Small.jpg

Fab
08-07-2012, 03:50 AM
Wow, interesting but looks hard to do, even for a geek like me ;)

How do you connect the module to your reprogrammer ? need to weld some wires ? And how much for that MPLAB PM3 ?

ttu
08-07-2012, 06:59 AM
what address can i send you my timers to be reprogramed? heck you can even sell the 20 minute timers i added that i can't get to program

snork
08-07-2012, 09:16 AM
I have one more you can reprogram :)

BrooksfamX2
08-07-2012, 10:01 AM
tr6coug reprogrammed mine and they work great. The OEM were flakey at best and now after about 25 days of actual use, they have performed flawless............:D

Hey, I think thats a picture of my timers being reprogrammed.........:cool:

tr6coug
08-09-2012, 02:49 AM
Wow, interesting but looks hard to do, even for a geek like me ;)

How do you connect the module to your reprogrammer ? need to weld some wires ? And how much for that MPLAB PM3 ?

The timer has a programming port (thanks Jabsco!) on the board, so no soldering is required. the PM3 programmer is about $900, but it is WAY overkill for this application, but I have it so I use it. You can use any cheap programmer that supports Microchip products.

If anyone wants to tackle this, let me know and I'll hook you up.

tr6coug reprogrammed mine and they work great. The OEM were flakey at best and now after about 25 days of actual use, they have performed flawless............:D

Hey, I think thats a picture of my timers being reprogrammed.........:cool:

Yup, Brooks is my Guinea Pig this year.

I have one more you can reprogram :)

Cool, send me a PM.



Several people asked me about doing this for them, so I set it up on my website. www.wakeblaster.com . I think the cost is reasonable, basically covers my time for disassembly, programming, test, reassembly etc. I'm always open to trading for beer though :D

willyt
08-09-2012, 08:57 AM
i hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate my timers. Any idea if this will work in the 2007 timers? I'll package them up and send tomorrow if it will... I'll even ship a case of beer to you

ttu
08-09-2012, 08:59 AM
i hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate my timers. Any idea if this will work in the 2007 timers? I'll package them up and send tomorrow if it will... I'll even ship a case of beer to you

yes! i have already been in contact with eric to get rid of the damm things in my 07 x2! you will probably beat me to it since i have to get up to the storage to pull the box.:mad: hopefully this weekend.

tr6coug
08-09-2012, 01:30 PM
Yup, the '07 timers are what I reprogrammed in my boat.

197 TT
08-09-2012, 01:54 PM
Just curious if we will be able to adjust the fill times (like you can with stock timers) after you re-program?

BrooksfamX2
08-09-2012, 02:21 PM
Yup, the '07 timers are what I reprogrammed in my boat.

...and my boat...........:D

tr6coug
08-09-2012, 06:19 PM
Just curious if we will be able to adjust the fill times (like you can with stock timers) after you re-program?

Right now it is hard coded into the timer. I haven't really investigated a method to adjust times yet. I'll have to think about that and see if it could be done reliably with the switches.

What is the procedure to adjust times on the stock timers?

BrooksfamX2
08-09-2012, 08:03 PM
I have a .pdf of the procedure somewhere I can send you.

Heres some info...

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=40313

and

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=25491&highlight=sacs

willyt
08-10-2012, 09:01 AM
best way to go to your website and follow instructions there?

tr6coug
08-10-2012, 11:25 AM
best way to go to your website and follow instructions there?

Yeah. That works. I'll email/PM you my address. I can turn them around pretty quick.

willyt
08-10-2012, 01:04 PM
I'll pull them out of the boat tomorrow and send them first thing monday

tr6coug
08-10-2012, 01:17 PM
I'll pull them out of the boat tomorrow and send them first thing monday

Sounds great. Just leave the 3 timers in the black box. That way you don't have to disconnect them from the 12 pin plug.

ttu
08-10-2012, 01:25 PM
Eric, hope to get mine pulled out sunday. how hard is the whole box to remove. when i installed the 20 min timers i just took the cover off i believe. it's been a while:rolleyes:

tr6coug
08-10-2012, 01:59 PM
First, disconnect power from the battery or turn your battery switch to OFF.

There are 2 screws that hold the timer box to the wall under the rear port seat (at least that is where it is in an X2). Remove those and the box should come free.

There will be a heavy red wire that connects to the circuit breakers and a heavy black wire that connects to the ground bus bar. Disconnect these. I suggest putting electrical tape around the cable ends as they go directly to the battery.

There should be a 12 pin plug that connects the timers to the dash switches. Unplug this.

Then disconnect the pump wires from the controllers. They should be should be orange and blue wires. you can see them in the 1st post. On my boat, I had to cut the orange and blue wires and use wire nuts to reconnect, but Brooks' box had bullet connectors that pull apart. Be sure to label the orange and blue pairs so you know how to reconnect them.

Thats about it for removal.

ttu
04-28-2013, 07:30 PM
just a update, finally got the x2 out today and just wanted to give props, (non pun intended) and was able to fill and empty perfect!!!

thank you again for the great job!

snork
04-29-2013, 12:21 AM
does the red light on the end of the switch work after the reprogramming
what about the auto turn off when ballast is empty

tr6coug
04-29-2013, 02:46 AM
just a update, finally got the x2 out today and just wanted to give props, (non pun intended) and was able to fill and empty perfect!!!

thank you again for the great job!

Excellent! Glad I could help.

tr6coug
04-29-2013, 03:14 AM
does the red light on the end of the switch work after the reprogramming
what about the auto turn off when ballast is empty

The light still works. There is no empty sensing anymore after reprogramming. When you flip the switch it runs for the programmed time then shuts off.


Also, after many requests for this, I just finished work on an update that allows you to change the run-time. So, after I reprogram them, you will be able to adjust the time yourself. It works similarly to the programming sequence that Jabsco put into the timers.

To change the time, you do the following:

1. disconnect power from the timers and wait 15 seconds.
2. reconnect power
3. within 10 seconds of powering up, flip the switch to fill 5 times
4. The red light will blink a sequence that tells you the run time
5. Then to add time flip the switch to fill then to the center, or to reduce time switch to empty then to center. Each time you move the switch you will change the run time by 30 seconds. For example, to add 3 minutes, flip it to fill then back to center 6 times.
6. Wait 6 seconds after the last switch move and everything works as normal but your time has changed.
7. That time is retained (even through power cycles) until you change it again.

Future reprogramming orders will ship with this feature. If anybody that already had timers programmed for a fixed time wants this update, PM me.

robpout
04-29-2013, 07:14 AM
Wow...can I send you mine over from Oz... I ordered the 20min timers for my 07 x-star, after I added the flyin high kit 6 months ago. Have been able to get only one of the timers to go properly and have basically bypassed them ATM. Will the original 07 timers (think 6/7 mins) be able to programmed to run for at least 15min fill time....

tr6coug
04-29-2013, 01:07 PM
Wow...can I send you mine over from Oz... I ordered the 20min timers for my 07 x-star, after I added the flyin high kit 6 months ago. Have been able to get only one of the timers to go properly and have basically bypassed them ATM. Will the original 07 timers (think 6/7 mins) be able to programmed to run for at least 15min fill time....


Sure, no problem. Send me a PM and I'll let you know how much return shipping will be.

Yes, I can reprogram the original '07 timers with the variable timing program so they will run for as long as you like.

snork
04-29-2013, 01:31 PM
I don't want to jack with the 30 sec programming, can you set the default time to start at 30 minutes and then go up from there if I have the need for additional time?

tr6coug
04-29-2013, 01:32 PM
I don't want to jack with the 30 sec programming, can you set the default time to start at 30 minutes and then go up from there if I have the need for additional time?

yep, no problem.

197 TT
05-07-2013, 01:27 PM
Just wanted to follow up with feed back, I have an '08 X2 with Fly High Piggy back system and struggled with my timers all last summer - had tr6coug program all three of my timers to 7 mins and it works perfect. Money very well spent.

g-mantrix
05-24-2013, 06:28 AM
Just to see how the reprogrammed timers are going. I have an 07 and am considering getting this done, but i need to ship from Aus to the US, so just wanna make sure. And any pics of the part that needs to be sent for reprogramming, again just wanna make sure...cheers

tr6coug
05-26-2013, 06:28 PM
Just to see how the reprogrammed timers are going. I have an 07 and am considering getting this done, but i need to ship from Aus to the US, so just wanna make sure. And any pics of the part that needs to be sent for reprogramming, again just wanna make sure...cheers

Reprogrammed timers are going well. I've done a few from Aus already. I'll post some instructions soon.

tr6coug
05-26-2013, 07:14 PM
Several people have asked about instructions for removing the ballast timer module, so here are some pictures I took when I removed the module from my '07 X2. In my boat, the timer module is located under the port rear seat.

Step 1. Remove the timer module. It is secured with phillips head screws.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/x2coug/pic1-sm.jpg (http://s224.photobucket.com/user/x2coug/media/pic1-sm.jpg.html)


Step 2. Remove the control cable plug.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/x2coug/pic2-sm.jpg (http://s224.photobucket.com/user/x2coug/media/pic2-sm.jpg.html)

Step 3. Disconnect the power cables to the module. Cover them with electrical tape, or disconnect them from the battery.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/x2coug/pic3-sm.jpg (http://s224.photobucket.com/user/x2coug/media/pic3-sm.jpg.html)

Step 4. Disconnect the blue and orange pump power cables. Some boats have bullet connectors on these. I have wire nuts because I didn't want to remove the wire all the way back to the pumps. Label the wires so you can reconnect them correctly.
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/x2coug/pic4-sm.jpg (http://s224.photobucket.com/user/x2coug/media/pic4-sm.jpg.html)

Removed Ballast Controller Timer Module
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/x2coug/pic5-sm.jpg (http://s224.photobucket.com/user/x2coug/media/pic5-sm.jpg.html)


Once reprogrammed with the new firmware, you can adjust the time in 30 second increments. The procedure to do this is:

1. Disconnect power from the timers and wait 10 seconds.
2. Reconnect power
3. Within 10 seconds of powering up, flip the switch from off>> fill >>off 5 times.
4. The red light will blink a sequence that tells you the current run time. For example:
1 blink, pause, 4 blinks = 14 * (30 seconds) = 7 min.
3 blinks, pause, 8 blinks = 38 * (30 seconds) = 19 min.

5. The red light will then blink rapidly. To add time flip the switch to fill then to the center, or to reduce time switch to empty then to center. Each time you move the switch you will change the run time by 30 seconds. For example, to add 3 minutes, flip it to fill then back to center 6 times.
6. Wait until the rapid blinking stops.
7. The ballast timer will now operate normally, but your time has changed.

The time is retained permanently, until you change it again. If you need to change the time again, start over at step 1.

Here is a video demonstrating the programming procedure.
http://youtu.be/XjcAN0QXhY8

g-mantrix
05-26-2013, 08:41 PM
Thats great and will be on my winter list now. Pm to me delivery dets info and cost...cheers

XStar08
06-04-2013, 02:27 PM
Just sent mine half way around the world. Looking forward receiving them back soon as summer decided to bring some nice weather... ;-)

Thank you Eric for your work!

ttu
06-04-2013, 02:28 PM
having my timers done was probably the best money spent!

thank you for the great work.

tr6coug
06-04-2013, 02:50 PM
Just sent mine half way around the world. Looking forward receiving them back soon as summer decided to bring some nice waether... ;-)

Thank you Eric for your work!

I got them yesterday. I'll finish them today and gt them back to you ASAP. :D

tr6coug
06-04-2013, 02:51 PM
having my timers done was probably the best money spent!

thank you for the great work.

Your welcome. Glad they are working well for you!

XStar08
06-04-2013, 02:57 PM
:-) :-)

grizzly
06-06-2013, 09:27 PM
Well my timers are on the way,so sick of dealing with these FN things I can't believe something so simple MC can screw up so bad! Can't wait to get them back from tr6coug and get the boating season on the way here in WI!

SJ.
07-24-2013, 10:09 AM
Mine will be on the way to you tomorrow (7/25). I appreciate you knocking them out for me!!

I'm amazed we aren't able to do simple time adjustments on the control screen. MasterCraft could have certainly thought that through better knowing lots of people bag out their boats and would want to piggy back the existing pumps.

g-mantrix
07-28-2013, 01:24 AM
Reprogrammed timers are going well. I've done a few from Aus already. I'll post some instructions soon.

Ok, just removed the module, now to pack and ship to tr6coug )98429

g-mantrix
07-28-2013, 01:24 AM
And thanks heaps for the instructions to remove

tr6coug
07-28-2013, 06:55 PM
Ok, just removed the module, now to pack and ship to tr6coug )98429

No problem! I'll let you know when it arrives.

ttu
07-28-2013, 07:46 PM
Ok, just removed the module, now to pack and ship to tr6coug )98429

you will be thrilled! just remember to turn them off!:D:D

BrooksfamX2
07-28-2013, 08:00 PM
Mine are still going strong after 2 seasons.......... work perfectly!

g-mantrix
07-28-2013, 09:19 PM
Thanks guys, thats what I want to hear. Sent mine off this morning

TReece
08-05-2013, 12:24 PM
07-XStar

Timers ready to ship! contact me please tr6coug!

Thanks

tr6coug
08-05-2013, 01:34 PM
PM back to you!

SJ.
08-06-2013, 04:33 PM
Got mine reinstalled. tr6coug nailed it, they work perfect. A big thanks!!!

tr6coug
08-10-2013, 03:35 PM
Got mine reinstalled. tr6coug nailed it, they work perfect. A big thanks!!!

Cool! Glad I could help. :D

Bungee55
08-20-2013, 12:04 PM
I have extra ballast with values to fill off the same pumps as factory ballast and after 5 years of total frustration I found this solution. This was the best money I have ever spent on my boat. if you have the extra ballast this is a must have. Also my tank cracked from over filling so I can empty again. this fixes all the problems that the extra ballast created. Thanks again tr6coug.

snork
01-01-2014, 02:38 PM
Removed my timers and am ready to ship, Do you still offer discounts to TT members

tr6coug
01-01-2014, 06:35 PM
Hey Snork, sent you a PM.

I'm still reprogramming timers in case anyone needs a ballast timer upgrade.

blackhawk
01-03-2014, 09:51 AM
It looks like all you guys have 2007 and newer boats. I have a 2006 X15. Do I have the same type of timers for my ballast system? I am going to add 750s in the rear lockers this Spring, so just wondering what problems that I might run into if I do or don't have timers.

willyt
01-03-2014, 10:04 AM
awesome. as soon as its not -3 outside i'm going to pull mine out and send.

tr6coug
01-06-2014, 03:38 PM
It looks like all you guys have 2007 and newer boats. I have a 2006 X15. Do I have the same type of timers for my ballast system? I am going to add 750s in the rear lockers this Spring, so just wondering what problems that I might run into if I do or don't have timers.

As far as I know, only '07 and newer boats have the timers. The '06 boats should have a non-timed relay circuit. You can check by removing the plastic box that houses the ballast circuit breakers and looking to see if you have 3 timer boxes, or several relays.

imyourmaster
01-08-2014, 11:00 PM
Anyone know what the fill rate is on the stock Jabsco pumps? I saw an old post which indicated about 10 GPM. Another post also stated that '08 boats had timers set at 20 minutes as opposed to 6 minutes for older models.

If this is correct, the ballast pump will add 83.5 lbs of water per minute to a ballast tank (1 gallon = 8.35lbs).

My '08 X2 port and starboard tanks each add 150lbs of weight to the boat when filled to capacity. So it would take about 2 minutes to fill a tank. If I added a 750lbs bag to my port locker I would have a total of 900lbs - a fill time of just under 11 minutes.

Isn't a timer set for a 20 minute runtime overkill? I'm just thinking out loud I suppose, but it does make me wonder why you would need that much time. Please share your opinions!

Quinten
01-09-2014, 04:19 AM
Anyone know what the fill rate is on the stock Jabsco pumps? I saw an old post which indicated about 10 GPM. Another post also stated that '08 boats had timers set at 20 minutes as opposed to 6 minutes for older models.

If this is correct, the ballast pump will add 83.5 lbs of water per minute to a ballast tank (1 gallon = 8.35lbs).

My '08 X2 port and starboard tanks each add 150lbs of weight to the boat when filled to capacity. So it would take about 2 minutes to fill a tank. If I added a 750lbs bag to my port locker I would have a total of 900lbs - a fill time of just under 11 minutes.

Isn't a timer set for a 20 minute runtime overkill? I'm just thinking out loud I suppose, but it does make me wonder why you would need that much time. Please share your opinions!

I think the pump is going to run slower, because of the pressure in the tank. He is filling the tank from down under so needs to pump the mass of the water up. Jabsco pump Pump Capacity: 640 GPH
Bag Fill Rate: 89 lbs/minute

blackhawk
01-09-2014, 12:02 PM
imyourmaster - The Jabsco pumps are rated at 11 GPM. I tested one in my garage with some water tubs and measured an actual one to be 10.8 GPM. Here is my original thread: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=58210

I calculated that a 500 lb tank could be filled in 5.7 minutes.

imyourmaster
01-14-2014, 06:36 PM
imyourmaster - The Jabsco pumps are rated at 11 GPM. I tested one in my garage with some water tubs and measured an actual one to be 10.8 GPM. Here is my original thread: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=58210

I calculated that a 500 lb tank could be filled in 5.7 minutes.

Thanks for the info Blackhawk!

snork
03-09-2014, 04:49 PM
Re- installed Ballast Timers and everything works flawlessly, only problem is I have to turn down the stereo volume to hear when the tanks are empty
Best money spent on this X Star thus far

tr6coug
04-12-2014, 11:16 AM
Re- installed Ballast Timers and everything works flawlessly, only problem is I have to turn down the stereo volume to hear when the tanks are empty
Best money spent on this X Star thus far

Cool! Happy I could help! :D

HartlandX1
06-14-2014, 11:39 AM
Coug in Corvallis????!

That's a strange one!

I have a set from an 07 X1 I would like to send out today!

Thanks

tr6coug
06-14-2014, 11:17 PM
Yeah, being a Coug in Beaver country is tough... let the jokes begin :)

WakeWise
06-15-2014, 09:36 AM
Last I checked. ..Cougs eat Beaver, Duck and most importantly Huskies.

WakeWise

BrooksfamX2
06-15-2014, 10:42 AM
Yeah, being a Coug in Beaver country is tough... let the jokes begin :)

We forgive you............ :rolleyes:

Go Beavs

fz1dba
06-16-2014, 05:00 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but this one is about ballast tanks and there is a good bit of information here.

But, has anyone here left the boat in the water overnight and have one or more of the tanks fill up?

I thought is was software but this past weekend I know my center tank was 100% empty when I went up for the night but the next morning it was 100% full. I verified it with a flashlight.

I kinda figure a peace of trash or something is going on with the check valve because it does not happen all the time.

tr6coug
06-16-2014, 06:13 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but this one is about ballast tanks and there is a good bit of information here.

But, has anyone here left the boat in the water overnight and have one or more of the tanks fill up?

I thought is was software but this past weekend I know my center tank was 100% empty when I went up for the night but the next morning it was 100% full. I verified it with a flashlight.

I kinda figure a peace of trash or something is going on with the check valve because it does not happen all the time.

You might have a bad impeller. If one of the vanes was missing and the impeller stopped in the right location, water could get through. It seems like this would only happen if your ballast tank/pump/tubing was under the water line though.

fz1dba
06-17-2014, 09:10 PM
^ Thanks, I'll check out the impeller for the center tank.

Masternorth
07-03-2014, 02:03 PM
Is it possible to just remove the timers and use the pumps in manual mode?

Jeff d
07-03-2014, 03:40 PM
Is it possible to just remove the timers and use the pumps in manual mode?

Yes, you use a polarity reversing pair of relays for each pump in the same manner that the '06 and older boats came from the factory. It costs about $60 for the relays and connectors and what not but may cost you another $60 for replacement switches. If your boat came with 8 prong DPDT switches then you can make the LED indicators work (i.e. have them light up when in the fill or drain positions) without replacing the switches. If your boat came with 6 prong DPST switches then you'll have to replace them if you want to make the LED indicators work.

So, it's between $60 and $120 depending on what switches your boat came with and/or whether you care about the LED indicators working. Either way it's more expensive then having the AI lobotomy that the OP offers. I've done the relay setup for a friend and it worked great but tr6coug hadn't reverse engineered the software at that point. It sounds like this is the way to go now with the only downside being that you have to wait while your timers are in transit/progress.

Masternorth
07-03-2014, 08:36 PM
Thanks for thé informations, I Will take this route.

tr6coug
07-11-2014, 10:35 PM
It sounds like this is the way to go now with the only downside being that you have to wait while your timers are in transit/progress.

If you don't want to wait on shipping timers, I have two new, full-timer modules for sale in the parts and accessories classified section. They are from '07.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=56613