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View Full Version : Can I take my X2 through a course?


Millertime
07-17-2012, 12:50 PM
Last week my wife took me for a ski behind our X2. It was the first time I got to ski behind it, on the way to get gas (less than 1/2 tank) 30mph, 15off and I was amazed edging through the wake like butter. I loved it. Compared to our last boat, which was I/O. I wasnt expecting It to be much smaller and softer, but it was. Now the question is, I'd like to try going through a course but don't want to piss anybody off. Is the X2 too wide?

pmkkdx
07-17-2012, 01:02 PM
the boat guide bouys thru the course are only about 7 1/2 feet apart with end (entry & exist) about 8 feet apart.

JohnE
07-17-2012, 01:03 PM
Not sure if it is too wide, but since it doesn't have tracking fins I would guess that you would be pulling it wide through the course.

rkhodges21
07-17-2012, 01:21 PM
Not sure if it is too wide, but since it doesn't have tracking fins I would guess that you would be pulling it wide through the course.

Not trying to be a smart you-know-what, but are you saying that the force of the skier is enough to throw the boat off track? I really don't know as I don't ski and don't get to wakeboard that much, so I don't know much about towing a rider or being towed.

JohnE
07-17-2012, 01:25 PM
Not trying to be a smart you-know-what, but are you saying that the force of the skier is enough to throw the boat off track? I really don't know as I don't ski and don't get to wakeboard that much, so I don't know much about towing a rider or being towed.

Yes, a hard slalom skier will make the X2 "walk".

Lars
07-17-2012, 01:31 PM
I was told that the wakeboats don't need them as they are a deep V hull. The only reason the DDs have them is because the bottom is flat and because the pylon is in the middle of the boat. Also since the pylon is further back on the V boats the rudder can be adjusted for any back end wagging. Might be wrong, but it sorta makes sense. I say do it! A buoy costs 20 bucks even if you hit one :)

rkhodges21
07-17-2012, 01:33 PM
Yes, a hard slalom skier will make the X2 "walk".

How much "walk" is normal for a boat with no tracking fins?

rkhodges21
07-17-2012, 01:36 PM
According to the MC site, the X2 has an 8' beam. So what would you think its width at the water surface would be?

pmkkdx
07-17-2012, 01:38 PM
a bigger skier will drag the tail around even on competition boats as the line gets shorter, not to mention trying to maintain +/- speed within tolerance.

cdstukey
07-17-2012, 01:42 PM
I was told that the wakeboats don't need them as they are a deep V hull. The only reason the DDs have them is because the bottom is flat and because the pylon is in the middle of the boat. Also since the pylon is further back on the V boats the rudder can be adjusted for any back end wagging. Might be wrong, but it sorta makes sense. I say do it! A buoy costs 20 bucks even if you hit one :)

If you are going to use the course please have everything you need to repair it with you. It's simply good manners.
As to a skier pulling a boat out of line, it's easier to do than you would think. I tried skiing off the rear pylon of our 214v just to see how it would do. Even with tracking fins and a nice easy two handed turn the "walking" was easily noticeable.

mccobmd
07-17-2012, 02:18 PM
Not trying to be a smart you-know-what, but are you saying that the force of the skier is enough to throw the boat off track? I really don't know as I don't ski and don't get to wakeboard that much, so I don't know much about towing a rider or being towed.

When they say walking it doesn't change the vector of the boat but does cause the stern to "swing" out of the line. If you are in bouy's it will catch them.

madcityskier
07-17-2012, 02:31 PM
I've done similar. Be careful as I've also seen a bouy rope wrap around a prop, pull up a piece of conduit tied to the main line on which the boat guides attach, punching an approximately 2" hole in a hull. Took me about 3 hours in the water to fix and I imagine it cost the guy hundreds. If you can identify the course's owner it would be kind to ask them. If not, x2 on putting any damage right. If you're confident in the drivers ability, go for it. If they have to constantly correct to get through when you're next to her with no skier all will be happier if you stay away.

19_Skier
07-17-2012, 03:29 PM
If you are going to use the course please have everything you need to repair it with you. It's simply good manners.
As to a skier pulling a boat out of line, it's easier to do than you would think. I tried skiing off the rear pylon of our 214v just to see how it would do. Even with tracking fins and a nice easy two handed turn the "walking" was easily noticeable.

Exactly! it's not so much the cost of replacing a boat guide or turn ball, it is the time it takes to fix it. Almost every weekend there is a boat guide or turn ball set loose on our course. It is an inconvenience for those who maintain the course when they go out to ski in the morning and spend the better part of it fixing the course.

Maybe try to find the people who maintain/use the course regularly and start getting pulls from them if you want to start skiing the course?

Millertime
07-17-2012, 04:11 PM
Thanks for the input guys, I don't think I'll be going through a coarse with my boat. I'll have to see if I can hit somebody up with a DD. My wife had mentioned after she pulled me that I was pulling the boat around, never thought much of it but trying to keep it straight through the coarse would be a challenge.

Lars
07-17-2012, 06:33 PM
Exactly! it's not so much the cost of replacing a boat guide or turn ball, it is the time it takes to fix it. Almost every weekend there is a boat guide or turn ball set loose on our course. It is an inconvenience for those who maintain the course when they go out to ski in the morning and spend the better part of it fixing the course.

Maybe try to find the people who maintain/use the course regularly and start getting pulls from them if you want to start skiing the course?


Boat guides floating away are understandable, but turn buoys missing just means someone was messing with it! I've fixed a few buoys we've taken out, but usually just zip tie the buoy back on. What tools do you guys take for fixing?

Ben
07-17-2012, 10:27 PM
Zip ties are good for a lot of things.

I would all but guarantee the guys who ski / maintain the course would give you a pull in a heartbeat just to be nice. Not to mention the fact they may be a bit uneasy about a novice driver / big boat combo.

Having said that, the ropes for the bouys are likely 4 to 5 feet long, so as long as you are pretty close to the middle, they would just wash out sideways due to boat wake as you pass by.

madcityskier
07-17-2012, 10:57 PM
Spare bouy snap bungee cord. Should get you where you need to be for most instances.

93Prostar190
07-17-2012, 11:38 PM
We drove Mattscraft X2 through the course last year .... No skier ... But we could have. It fits between the boat guides .... No issues.

Not an ideal course boat, but heck who cares ..... Do it up.

BrianT
07-17-2012, 11:38 PM
Thanks for the input guys, I don't think I'll be going through a coarse with my boat. I'll have to see if I can hit somebody up with a DD. My wife had mentioned after she pulled me that I was pulling the boat around, never thought much of it but trying to keep it straight through the coarse would be a challenge.

Where do you ski? I have a X7, perfect ski boat. We head out somewhere almost every weekend.

Lars
07-18-2012, 12:53 AM
Spare bouy snap bungee cord. Should get you where you need to be for most instances.

got a link to one?

madcityskier
07-18-2012, 12:58 AM
Which? Bouys from Overtons or Barts, the rest from a local hardware. Figure 6 ft. of bungee should be enough, snaps are on most of the courses I've had to do any work on, but you could always just tie it in and at least it's ready to use. Just tie it shorter if it's too long and cut off the excess. Hook the snap to the sub-bouy or whatever type of pipe is down there, bring the end up and tie it to the bouy. Be sure to cut off any excess line.

http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Gladiator-Inflatable-Slalom-Buoys-9-dia&i=13905&str=bouy&merchID=4005

Lars
07-18-2012, 01:06 AM
Ah, yeah we have buoys at the local shop, I wasn't sure if the snap bungee cords were something specific or not.

Lars
07-18-2012, 01:10 AM
I'm guessing this is like what you were talking about:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Bungee-Cord-4HXC7?Pid=search

MattsCraft
07-18-2012, 07:57 AM
We drove Mattscraft X2 through the course last year .... No skier ... But we could have. It fits between the boat guides .... No issues.

Not an ideal course boat, but heck who cares ..... Do it up.

Yup, agree with 93Prostar, not the perfect boat for this, it does take work from the driver but can be done without damage to the course. Heck, I took my Cobalt 200 through the course on Norris several times with no damage:rolleyes: Go for it:D

madcityskier
07-18-2012, 11:33 PM
I agree it can be done, with a highly capable and confident driver. This would be the type of snaps I carry, if these don't work I just tie. Haven't had to change one in years.

jmac197
07-19-2012, 09:44 AM
I cannot disagree with this statement more. I maintain a course installed on a public lake and let me tell you how pissed off I get when I have 1 hour to get a set in and wind up spending the time fixing the course because some yahoo thinks he can drive the course in a boat not meant for it.

Find the owners and ask them if you can use the course. 9 times out of 10 they will offer to give you a pull just so they don't have to spend the time fixing it. You will bust something, no doubt about it. And if it isn't fixed the way the course owner would like, you are just creating more work for them. We provide a buoy and line to those who do use the course so they can fix a broken buoy themselves....the way we want it fixed. There are no metal clips as those rust and as the sap that has to take the course out after an entire summer, anything not stainless will rust and create sharp edges to slice your hands Yes my tetanus shots are up to date because of just this.

You have to remember that as you pass through the gates, the buoys spread out and pull the mainline and PVC up towards the surface. If the buoy lines are short, the mainline and PVC will get pulled into your prop. A new Stainless Steel mainline is upwards of $500. You all know the price of props and underwater gear.

Please do all a favor and search out the owner of the course. Remember if it becomes too much of a PITA he can always just pull it, then no one can enjoy it.


Yup, agree with 93Prostar, not the perfect boat for this, it does take work from the driver but can be done without damage to the course. Heck, I took my Cobalt 200 through the course on Norris several times with no damage:rolleyes: Go for it:D

jmac197
07-19-2012, 09:54 AM
Let me add that different courses have different setups. If the course has individual anchors for each ball, then there is little possibility you will do damage beyond a popped buoy. But if the sub buoy gets damaged, then the owners will have to find a diver to come out and repair.

If the course is like the many portable ones with a mainline and PVC pipe setup to keep the buoys at the proper distance from the centerline, then you have a huge chance of damaging the boat, course, or both.

Don't do it! Get involved with the club or owner and help. Don't be the problem.

I'll get off my soapbox now and go back to stalking......

madcityskier
07-19-2012, 10:00 AM
I've been where you are, but unless you build your own private ski lake others will use your course and have a right to do so. Not only does getting angry not help, it creates tension and will lead to people protesting your permit, which can cost you your course, and hurt the sport by making people think skiers are angry and aggressive people whom your lake is better off without. Do you have a name and phone number on top of each bouy so people can contact you if they have questions or want to let you know that something has happened to the course so you can fix it before it gets worse? That made my life w lot easier.

André
07-19-2012, 10:05 AM
I cannot disagree with this statement more. I maintain a course installed on a public lake and let me tell you how pissed off I get when I have 1 hour to get a set in and wind up spending the time fixing the course because some yahoo thinks he can drive the course in a boat not meant for it.

Find the owners and ask them if you can use the course. 9 times out of 10 they will offer to give you a pull just so they don't have to spend the time fixing it. You will bust something, no doubt about it. And if it isn't fixed the way the course owner would like, you are just creating more work for them. We provide a buoy and line to those who do use the course so they can fix a broken buoy themselves....the way we want it fixed. There are no metal clips as those rust and as the sap that has to take the course out after an entire summer, anything not stainless will rust and create sharp edges to slice your hands Yes my tetanus shots are up to date because of just this.

You have to remember that as you pass through the gates, the buoys spread out and pull the mainline and PVC up towards the surface. If the buoy lines are short, the mainline and PVC will get pulled into your prop. A new Stainless Steel mainline is upwards of $500. You all know the price of props and underwater gear.

Please do all a favor and search out the owner of the course. Remember if it becomes too much of a PITA he can always just pull it, then no one can enjoy it.
Exactly.

I'm too the owner and official repairman of my course on a small but public lake.Last week end,i had to reattach or replace 6 bouys,some bungees and spend some times doing the repairs.Peoples pulling tubes trying to slalom the course,PWCs and even some drunk pontoon guy passing over the boys.I've seen it all.
Being on a public lake,i accept that other peoples use it the way it was met to but an X2 is not design for course skiing even if the wake is low ans very skiable for recreationnal skiing.The boat will be pull all over the place in a tight course...
As mentionned,try to spot the owner and ask him for a ride.I'm sure he will prefer to pull you then to see his course getting broke.
I know i would!
Good luck!

rhsprostar
07-19-2012, 10:14 AM
Just go ahead and use it. The X2 will be fine, just drive down the middle the buoys will seperate when the boat goes through each set.
When you see the owner out there, just go over and talk to him. I am sure he will be happy to have another person to use and LOOK AFTER it on a public waterway. If he is like me he is more concerned about fisherman and other people who willfully damage it than someone who actully wants to use it. I have a few people on my lake who are always keeping an eye open or putting a buoy back when needed.
Strength in numbers baby!
Go ski it and have fun.....that's what it's about.

jmac197
07-19-2012, 10:15 AM
Your not getting my point. Just because others do all this doesn't mean you have to. Whatever happened to respect for other property. Just because I leave my car in the public parking lot doesn't give you the right to use it.

The course is private property and as such individuals can be ticketed and fined if they destroy private property. Don't dispute this because the marine patrol asked us if we wanted to press charges against a couple of idiots who thought it was funny to run their pontoon boat through the course. I'll get pics of what it did to the mainline.

And asking if I put my name and address on the buoys, which we do have on the magnets, is doing nothing but trying to push action on me instead of onto the person who wants to use the course. Our contact info is also on the permit that is posted on the entrance gate, but if someone decides to knock the gate off, well there goes the contact information.



I've been where you are, but unless you build your own private ski lake others will use your course and have a right to do so. Not only does getting angry not help, it creates tension and will lead to people protesting your permit, which can cost you your course, and hurt the sport by making people think skiers are angry and aggressive people whom your lake is better off without. Do you have a name and phone number on top of each bouy so people can contact you if they have questions or want to let you know that something has happened to the course so you can fix it before it gets worse? That made my life w lot easier.

Iskidaily
07-19-2012, 10:18 AM
Public lake = public access, so you can do what you want, but understanding that you could break something and / or upset a potential ally, I'd look for a name and phone number on the balls, give 'em a call and make a friend. Good luck!

jmac197
07-19-2012, 11:11 AM
I think what is getting my panties in a bunch is the fact that he knows his boat is not appropriate for the course, but is still willing to run through it.

Bottom line is where is the respect for other's property.



Exactly.

I'm too the owner and official repairman of my course on a small but public lake.Last week end,i had to reattach or replace 6 bouys,some bungees and spend some times doing the repairs.Peoples pulling tubes trying to slalom the course,PWCs and even some drunk pontoon guy passing over the boys.I've seen it all.
Being on a public lake,i accept that other peoples use it the way it was met to but an X2 is not design for course skiing even if the wake is low ans very skiable for recreationnal skiing.The boat will be pull all over the place in a tight course...
As mentionned,try to spot the owner and ask him for a ride.I'm sure he will prefer to pull you then to see his course getting broke.
I know i would!
Good luck!

jmac197
07-19-2012, 11:26 AM
Actually, I stand corrected. Millertime is a stand up guy and decided to work the proper channels to use somebody else's property.

Now the other guys who say to just go for it.......:noface:

Thanks for the input guys, I don't think I'll be going through a coarse with my boat. I'll have to see if I can hit somebody up with a DD. My wife had mentioned after she pulled me that I was pulling the boat around, never thought much of it but trying to keep it straight through the coarse would be a challenge.

197 TT
07-19-2012, 11:34 AM
FYI only... an old thread with someone running an X2 through the course....

http://press.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=32614&page=2

Millertime
07-19-2012, 11:46 AM
Thanks for the input guys, I don't think I'll be going through a coarse with my boat. I'll have to see if I can hit somebody up with a DD. My wife had mentioned after she pulled me that I was pulling the boat around, never thought much of it but trying to keep it straight through the coarse would be a challenge.

I think what is getting my panties in a bunch is the fact that he knows his boat is not appropriate for the course, but is still willing to run through it.

Bottom line is where is the respect for other's property.

You must have missed my last post, so you can unbunch those panties. I was unfamiliar with the course set up, and that's why I asked.

jmac197
07-19-2012, 11:49 AM
I did miss your last post which is why I corrected it in post #34

You must have missed my last post, so you can unbunch those panties. I was unfamiliar with the course set up, and that's why I asked.

Millertime
07-19-2012, 11:49 AM
My apologies jmac, you did see it.

rkhodges21
07-19-2012, 12:51 PM
Can somebody post a pic or a link to a portable course setup? I have never paid any attention to a course on any water I have ever been on so a pic of the course in the water would be cool for me to see.

From this though, it sounds like a course is a big hassle and PITA. You guys won't have to worry about me ever trying to run one of your courses.

jamisonsbrodie
07-19-2012, 01:45 PM
What some people fail to recognize is that even though an X2 may "technically" fit through the guide bouys, this is assuming that the driver is exactly down the middle of the course. There are only a few people that I know that can actually do this and I know a handfull of avid course skiers that can't drive straight down the middle even with a 197, let alone someone that isn't familiar with it. Another issue is turning around inside the course which novices don't understand as the rope will catch the bouys and pull them off. Our club has a submersible course on a public lake and I understand the nature of a public waterway, but as many have mentioned already, IMO it boils down to respect for property and common sense in regards to the course usage (I realize the latter is lacking amongst the wally crowd).

jmac197
07-19-2012, 01:53 PM
There is a mainline that runs the length of the course with diamond shaped separations where the PVC pipe is attached. The mainline sets the distance between buoys and the PVC sets the distance of the boat gates and the distance from the boat gate to the buoys.

There is no problem with a standard DD boat going through the boat gates, but the gates are only 104" apart. My X7 has a beam of 91". The X2 has a beam of ....get this, I never would have guessed....96".

So technically it will fit width wise but doesn't leave much margin for error.

the draft of the x7 is 22" and the draft of the x2 is 27".

So technically the X2 will fit, but now we can get into an analysis of how much a skier wags the tail of a direct drive vs a vdrive. I've never skied a vdrive so I can't comment on how much a skier at say 28 off will pull the end around.

It still doesn't address the unauthorized use of private property.

Sorry for being a jerk here, but this subject has obviously touched a nerve. I have spent many a ski-able hours fixing the course.

It is a PITA but if you want to ski a course, and aren't the type to rely on someone else, it's the price you pay.

Double
07-19-2012, 03:24 PM
I appreciate the discussion as it is educating me as to the set up and maintenance needed. I have a 2012 x30 and was wondering what the rules of engagement were to using these type of courses. I think like some said before me, I'll just stay away :)

MIskier
07-19-2012, 04:44 PM
There is a mainline that runs the length of the course with diamond shaped separations where the PVC pipe is attached. The mainline sets the distance between buoys and the PVC sets the distance of the boat gates and the distance from the boat gate to the buoys.

There is no problem with a standard DD boat going through the boat gates, but the gates are only 104" apart. My X7 has a beam of 91". The X2 has a beam of ....get this, I never would have guessed....96".

So technically it will fit width wise but doesn't leave much margin for error.

the draft of the x7 is 22" and the draft of the x2 is 27".

So technically the X2 will fit, but now we can get into an analysis of how much a skier wags the tail of a direct drive vs a vdrive. I've never skied a vdrive so I can't comment on how much a skier at say 28 off will pull the end around.

It still doesn't address the unauthorized use of private property.

Sorry for being a jerk here, but this subject has obviously touched a nerve. I have spent many a ski-able hours fixing the course.

It is a PITA but if you want to ski a course, and aren't the type to rely on someone else, it's the price you pay.


The wag is going to be a much larger issue on a v drive with the pylon mounted much furthur aft, this allows the skier to generate a larger moment and drag the boat around even more. Unless you've gotten permission or have a v-drive set up to slalom ie 214v find someone with a DD to tow you through the course.

On another note it you're actually interested in skiing a course with any frequency you're not going to use an X-2. If you do you will never be able to learn proper technique.

Sodar
07-19-2012, 04:47 PM
PM Witness140. He skied his X-2 through the course all the time.

He had an '07 197 TT, but needed more room, so he went to an '09 X2.

jmac197
07-19-2012, 04:51 PM
Don't stay away, find the owner and offer to trade pulls, a slalom set for a wakeboard set. I do that with a buddy who has an older X2. I don't wakeboard but my son does. The X7 does not have the wake that the X2 has and vice versa. It's a win-win....I hate that saying....but it is true.


I appreciate the discussion as it is educating me as to the set up and maintenance needed. I have a 2012 x30 and was wondering what the rules of engagement were to using these type of courses. I think like some said before me, I'll just stay away :)

cdstukey
07-19-2012, 07:32 PM
Don't stay away, find the owner and offer to trade pulls, a slalom set for a wakeboard set. I do that with a buddy who has an older X2. I don't wakeboard but my son does. The X7 does not have the wake that the X2 has and vice versa. It's a win-win....I hate that saying....but it is true.

This. For all the right reasons. :)

madcityskier
07-19-2012, 08:01 PM
I get your point, as I said I've been there. The car reference is not at all apt. A closer reference would be that you build a basketball court in a park. When you're not using it others will assume it's for all to use. If not you would have put it on private property. The couple of times we discussed this with the officers on our lake we were told it would have to be willfull destruction (i.e. an act of vandalism) for them to act. I understand that other people using your course can cost you time and $, but that's the price of putting it on public water. Sounds like you need to dig yourself a private ski lake so noone will touch your toy. I got very frustrated with people just like this. When I was working for a ski school just outside of Lansing, MI we hosted a Coors Light Pro Tour event several years. I was lucky enough to spend time with people like Dave Reinhart, Skip Gilkerson, Wayne Grimditch, Ed Brazil, Geoff Carrington and most notably Jack Walker. There were many other notables there, but these stood out because they were truely ambassadors of our sport. Where you're busy being angry, they would go out of their way no matter how busy or how badly they felt they were skiing, to sign autographs, give advice and listen to a parent brag about how Junior was getting pretty good. I was showing Mr. Walker the layout of the lake, and aprroximate depths when I mentioned something about how much better this course was than our one at home precisely because noone was ever messing it up. He explained to me that those are the times where you can meet someone, and help them, thereby helping yourself. By putting our number on the bouys we would often get calls regarding the use of the course etc. This allowed us to have them pull up to our dock and talk for a minute, advising them of proper usage of the course. If their boat and driver didn't combo up to make for confidence, we would offer to get them a couple sets sometime. On a fairly regular basis there were a couple of families that would anchor out when we were skiing in the morning and toss us five bucks for gas in exchange for a pull when we were done. This was particularly great as we could add an extra person who could be called on when we needed a third. I have been regularly running our regular course on a public body of water for years. Behind our old I/O my 85, and even the neighbors Super Air Nautique. We haven't had a problem yet. A capable dirver is the biggest part of the equation. To tell everyone to stay away is a joke. It's like saying you don't want to grow the sport. Try educating people and you'll find you end up doing a lot more maintenance. I'm not trying to start an arguement with you, just trying to share some wisdom that was given to me by one of the greates people in the skiing world. Apologies for any misspellings on the above names, and I consider it an honor to have met each of them.


Your not getting my point. Just because others do all this doesn't mean you have to. Whatever happened to respect for other property. Just because I leave my car in the public parking lot doesn't give you the right to use it.

The course is private property and as such individuals can be ticketed and fined if they destroy private property. Don't dispute this because the marine patrol asked us if we wanted to press charges against a couple of idiots who thought it was funny to run their pontoon boat through the course. I'll get pics of what it did to the mainline.

And asking if I put my name and address on the buoys, which we do have on the magnets, is doing nothing but trying to push action on me instead of onto the person who wants to use the course. Our contact info is also on the permit that is posted on the entrance gate, but if someone decides to knock the gate off, well there goes the contact information.

rhsprostar
07-19-2012, 08:57 PM
Madcityskier...that is the best quote of this whole thread.....very well said and true.



I get your point, as I said I've been there. The car reference is not at all apt. A closer reference would be that you build a basketball court in a park. When you're not using it others will assume it's for all to use. If not you would have put it on private property. The couple of times we discussed this with the officers on our lake we were told it would have to be willfull destruction (i.e. an act of vandalism) for them to act. I understand that other people using your course can cost you time and $, but that's the price of putting it on public water. Sounds like you need to dig yourself a private ski lake so noone will touch your toy. I got very frustrated with people just like this. When I was working for a ski school just outside of Lansing, MI we hosted a Coors Light Pro Tour event several years. I was lucky enough to spend time with people like Dave Reinhart, Skip Gilkerson, Wayne Grimditch, Ed Brazil, Geoff Carrington and most notably Jack Walker. There were many other notables there, but these stood out because they were truely ambassadors of our sport. Where you're busy being angry, they would go out of their way no matter how busy or how badly they felt they were skiing, to sign autographs, give advice and listen to a parent brag about how Junior was getting pretty good. I was showing Mr. Walker the layout of the lake, and aprroximate depths when I mentioned something about how much better this course was than our one at home precisely because noone was ever messing it up. He explained to me that those are the times where you can meet someone, and help them, thereby helping yourself. By putting our number on the bouys we would often get calls regarding the use of the course etc. This allowed us to have them pull up to our dock and talk for a minute, advising them of proper usage of the course. If their boat and driver didn't combo up to make for confidence, we would offer to get them a couple sets sometime. On a fairly regular basis there were a couple of families that would anchor out when we were skiing in the morning and toss us five bucks for gas in exchange for a pull when we were done. This was particularly great as we could add an extra person who could be called on when we needed a third. I have been regularly running our regular course on a public body of water for years. Behind our old I/O my 85, and even the neighbors Super Air Nautique. We haven't had a problem yet. A capable dirver is the biggest part of the equation. To tell everyone to stay away is a joke. It's like saying you don't want to grow the sport. Try educating people and you'll find you end up doing a lot more maintenance. I'm not trying to start an arguement with you, just trying to share some wisdom that was given to me by one of the greates people in the skiing world. Apologies for any misspellings on the above names, and I consider it an honor to have met each of them.

madcityskier
07-19-2012, 09:13 PM
The funny thing is we sound as though we're worlds apart, but we would probably get along very well in person. I've just accepted what I feel was great advice which changed my life for the better. I'm much more easygoing about things like this now. Had similar advice from a great teacher in high school about choosing to be happy in spite of... whatever is annoying you at the moment.

jmac197
07-19-2012, 10:38 PM
madcity,

I get the basketball court analogy, and maybe it is more appropriate, but there isn't the possibility of someone causing $500+ of damage without being true vandalism. I'm not asking anyone to stay away, in fact I want more people using the course.

I've actually recruited 2 new families and their boats to join the club this year. I spent a night with one going through their new to them X7 and the club VP spent a night running them through the course. I want more people to properly use the course as it provides more eyes and ears to ensure the course isn't harmed.

I guess my anger or probably more appropriate frustration is the fact I'm lucky to get one maybe two times a week to ski and even then I can't get out until 7. that gives me me 2 hours max to ski. Two out of the last 5 times out, I've spent a good portion doing maintenance. Granted it is more than a lot of you out there get, but it's still opportunity lost.

Get along? Heck if your ever in upstate NY I expect you to contact me to run a couple of sets!


I get your point, as I said I've been there. The car reference is not at all apt. A closer reference would be that you build a basketball court in a park. When you're not using it others will assume it's for all to use. If not you would have put it on private property. The couple of times we discussed this with the officers on our lake we were told it would have to be willfull destruction (i.e. an act of vandalism) for them to act. I understand that other people using your course can cost you time and $, but that's the price of putting it on public water. Sounds like you need to dig yourself a private ski lake so noone will touch your toy. I got very frustrated with people just like this. When I was working for a ski school just outside of Lansing, MI we hosted a Coors Light Pro Tour event several years. I was lucky enough to spend time with people like Dave Reinhart, Skip Gilkerson, Wayne Grimditch, Ed Brazil, Geoff Carrington and most notably Jack Walker. There were many other notables there, but these stood out because they were truely ambassadors of our sport. Where you're busy being angry, they would go out of their way no matter how busy or how badly they felt they were skiing, to sign autographs, give advice and listen to a parent brag about how Junior was getting pretty good. I was showing Mr. Walker the layout of the lake, and aprroximate depths when I mentioned something about how much better this course was than our one at home precisely because noone was ever messing it up. He explained to me that those are the times where you can meet someone, and help them, thereby helping yourself. By putting our number on the bouys we would often get calls regarding the use of the course etc. This allowed us to have them pull up to our dock and talk for a minute, advising them of proper usage of the course. If their boat and driver didn't combo up to make for confidence, we would offer to get them a couple sets sometime. On a fairly regular basis there were a couple of families that would anchor out when we were skiing in the morning and toss us five bucks for gas in exchange for a pull when we were done. This was particularly great as we could add an extra person who could be called on when we needed a third. I have been regularly running our regular course on a public body of water for years. Behind our old I/O my 85, and even the neighbors Super Air Nautique. We haven't had a problem yet. A capable dirver is the biggest part of the equation. To tell everyone to stay away is a joke. It's like saying you don't want to grow the sport. Try educating people and you'll find you end up doing a lot more maintenance. I'm not trying to start an arguement with you, just trying to share some wisdom that was given to me by one of the greates people in the skiing world. Apologies for any misspellings on the above names, and I consider it an honor to have met each of them.

93Prostar190
07-19-2012, 11:35 PM
No long answer here .... I support, install, maintain a slalom course on public water. I do not want an I/O going thorough it ... And an X2 is not ideal compared to a 190 or 197 ...... But in our 6 ft of water an X2 is fine.

I replace buoys and boat guides almost every week ..... Part of the cost of doing business in a public waterway. Luckily, we have only had a mainline or PVC broken once in the past 7 years.

DJ 50
07-20-2012, 01:43 AM
While on the topic of course use. Is it safe to turn around within the course? Or is right down the middle the only safe place for the boat to be? If so what is the proper procedure to pick up a fallen skier? I'm in a 197 so please don't yell for driving the course in the wrong type of boat

Ben
07-20-2012, 07:14 AM
While on the topic of course use. Is it safe to turn around within the course? Or is right down the middle the only safe place for the boat to be? If so what is the proper procedure to pick up a fallen skier? I'm in a 197 so please don't yell for driving the course in the wrong type of boat

You can drive wherever you want. Just ask the pontoon that went left to right between ball 3 and 4 a few weeks ago as I was getting ready to run the course...

Having said that, in order to maintain optimal water conditions, when a skier wipes out and signals ok, we bring the boat off plane maintaining the boat path in the course. Then, at idle, turn around and idle back to and then thru the boat guides to get the skier. Pay attention to the dragging rope and the balls it will wrap around when you turn.

We sometimes will start in the middle of the course, just not when the boat is immediately between the boat guides and on top of the PVC arm. Other option is to drag the skier at idle past the entry gates then start up and Turn around and hit it. This way you don't get the big rollers from pulling skier up if you are immediately coming back thru the course.

This is what we do. Others can and will differ.

+1 and as I and others have mentioned, when in doubt, ask the guys/gals who ski the course. They will surely give tips or a pull. You can also get their opinion on how things should work (not always the same, as we have seen here...).

madcityskier
07-20-2012, 09:38 AM
I slow to idle and try to turn around a bouy so that the rope passes above it in the air while the hall is almost touching the bouy.

jmac197
07-20-2012, 10:13 AM
Think about what you are trying to do. Minimize wake. Slow to idle and wait for the boat to settle. I have an X7 which is a 197 with a roll bar. The nose will settle down after you pull power. Once the nose has settled, you can turn, generally to the right, starboard, because the boat turns tighter that way and it is easier to look down course and site your skier. Another advantage to waiting for the boat to settle is our x7/197s have such a low bow, the nose will tend to dip as you are going over your own wakes and if you wait, the wakes won't be there. It's a much smoother ride for all. So you finished idling around your turn, take a look at where you have been. If there is a roller or obvious wake running the length of the course, your doing it wrong. little ripples can't be avoided, but the slow roller will take 5-7 minutes to clear the entire 800' of the course if you are near the gates.

Technically someone should be pulling in your line while you are doing all this. It doesn't happen every time in my boat, although I wish it would. Watch your line. I've taken out a few buoys this way. make sure it is clear of the buoy.

basically that's it. If you start back up in the middle of the course, make sure you start in the boat lane so your wake will travel outside the skiers path asap. If you start to the right, it will take longer for the wake to travel to the left and vice versa. I also take the skier for a longer turn to allow the wakes to travel outside the courses perimeter.

That's how we instruct our course drivers to drive. It's worked well for us.

Of course all this is mute when the fat sacked x-star takes a perpendicular path at the end of your course.

scott023
07-20-2012, 10:15 AM
Wow, jmac seems to be quite bitter... apparently he doesn't enjoy his time out on the water with others.

jmac197
07-20-2012, 10:17 AM
Nah it's just that I don't get to enjoy ENOUGH time out on the water.

:)

wtrskr
07-20-2012, 12:32 PM
I'm sort of in the middle on this one. Just because it is on a public waterway it doesn't mean that it should be ok for people to knock balls off the course without any regard for the fact that they damaged someone's personal property. I'm sure jmac is frustrated because he has had some people either care very little, or purposefully damage the course. It is amazing how people seem get angry at slalom courses and vandalize them.

I say either ask the owner for permission ahead of time, or if you have troubles contacting him before using it, understand that you should either fix it yourself or track him down and give him money for the cost of repair.

If you ski the course with your X2, I image your experience will result in one of two things. 1) You realize that the course is out of your league. Or, 2.) You are a pretty good skier and you will be frustrated that you can't get through the course and feel like you should be able to. You will spend way too much time over the rest of your able life figuring out how to better ski around those dang little balls.

wtrskr
07-20-2012, 02:12 PM
I finished off that last post quickly and realized the end may come across differently than my intention. My point was that the course is difficult the first time you try it whether a good open water skier or not. If you ski the course and don't find the thought of eventually making the course too daunting, there is a good chance you will get hooked and won't be able to get enough of it.

rhsprostar
07-20-2012, 02:45 PM
........just go ski the thing and have fun. Go talk to the guy and ask for some pointers on how to maintain it. You are all good, don't sweat the little stuff....

one word of advice for driving down the center though. Key your eyes looking down course and the end gates and not at each set of boat guides. It'll keep you in the middle...;)

rkhodges21
07-20-2012, 03:04 PM
I can definitely understand the frustration of the course getting damaged as it is someone's personal property regardless of whether it is on a public waterway or not. I mean, there are all kinds of people that have private docks, so does that mean that someone coming up to it and defacing it whether purposefully or accidentally should just be chalked up as the cost of owning a dock? Do trotline or jug fishermen not get pissed when someone messes with their stuff? I am a duck hunter, and I know of fellow duckhunters that have their own personal blinds set up on public waterways with permission from the powers that be, and it is certainly not cool to mess with someone's blind, so I can understand someone being pissed that they always have to fix their stuff in order to use it.

Now that said, I am the kind of guy that if you are honest and let me know you want to use my stuff such as a duck blind, ski course (if I had one), I would be happy to let you as long as I met you first and you agreed to abide by my guidelines, which it sounds like most everyone on here is the same way.

Millertime
07-20-2012, 05:21 PM
Where do you ski? I have a X7, perfect ski boat. We head out somewhere almost every weekend.

Thanks for the offer Brian. We're all over the place, week nights we go to ghost. Weekends it's sylvan or little bow. Holidays it's kelowna or sandpoint.

sp00ky
07-21-2012, 03:47 PM
Not trying to be a smart you-know-what, but are you saying that the force of the skier is enough to throw the boat off track? I really don't know as I don't ski and don't get to wakeboard that much, so I don't know much about towing a rider or being towed.

Hell yes the skier will pull the boat off track. I jerk my 205 around with a 4 blade prop.

tim79mc
07-25-2012, 09:11 AM
My advice is to meet the people that install and maintain the course. I've got a course on my lake and have spent many hours underwater maintaining and repairing arms, buoys, anchors... I've never turned anyone away from using the course and we'll throw them a few buoys to have on hand in case they pull one off or run one over.