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View Full Version : Carb Problem 351 Holley 4160 Flooding


SugarLake
07-13-2012, 05:45 PM
Getting frustrated and looking for ideas. Boat is an '88 PS 190 with 351 and brand new (last year) Holley 4160. Boat was running fine but I decided to replace the power valve with a 2.5 because I wasn't sure what the new carb came with and I was having some slight bogging and rich smell out of the hole. Pulled the front bowl, switched out the power valve, put it back together and it wouldn't start. Finally figured out it was getting way too much gas and got it to start with choke open and wide open throttle. If I back off the throttle it will stay running for a while (with black smoke) but quickly loads up.

I pulled the front bowl again, blew through the float and it seemed to be shutting off fine. Tried again with same results. Then I pulled both bowls, blew through the inlets with compressed air, checked them both to see that the needles and seat were closing by holding them upside down and blowing through the inlets with my mouth. Seemed to be working fine. Put it back together and still have the issue. I also tried changing back to the original power valve.

What did I do? Doesn't make any sense to me.

mcparadise
07-13-2012, 06:18 PM
Getting frustrated and looking for ideas. Boat is an '88 PS 190 with 351 and brand new (last year) Holley 4160. Boat was running fine but I decided to replace the power valve with a 2.5 because I wasn't sure what the new carb came with and I was having some slight bogging and rich smell out of the hole. Pulled the front bowl, switched out the power valve, put it back together and it wouldn't start. Finally figured out it was getting way too much gas and got it to start with choke open and wide open throttle. If I back off the throttle it will stay running for a while (with black smoke) but quickly loads up.

I pulled the front bowl again, blew through the float and it seemed to be shutting off fine. Tried again with same results. Then I pulled both bowls, blew through the inlets with compressed air, checked them both to see that the needles and seat were closing by holding them upside down and blowing through the inlets with my mouth. Seemed to be working fine. Put it back together and still have the issue. I also tried changing back to the original power valve.

What did I do? Doesn't make any sense to me.
For what it my be worth, I had a "similar" problem in my 98 regular-carbed SS19 with Indmar 305that kicked my mechanic's butt. Nothing worked. Holly 4160 650 cfm was fine and almost new....end of story is the Carter fuel pump (high volume low pressure) was putting out way too much pressure and flooding her out. At that time I had no pressure gage, no longer though !, so it was hard to disgnose. I went with the marine Holly instead which mounts with terminals on top not on bottom (poor Carter design in my book considering they are "press fit" with a screwy wire retainer).

SugarLake
07-14-2012, 12:52 AM
Thanks, I think a fuel pump is worth a shot. Mine is original so it wouldn't hurt to replace it at any rate. I've had the bowls off about 5 times now. Took out the floats and needle and seat, can't see anything wrong. No fuel coming out of the J tubes either. It really has me stumped.

SeaCup
07-14-2012, 01:43 AM
Since the boat was running fine before you changed the power valve I would double check the valve. The valve might be defective or leaking around the gasket because it was not tightened properly. Use a little petroleum jelly and hold it upside down when you tighten it to make sure the gasket stays centered.

Super easy to test the valve, screw in both your idle air screws (count how many turns so you can put them back where they were) and if the engine starts to stumble and die the valve is good. If it keeps running the valve is bad. :D

SugarLake
07-14-2012, 10:10 PM
It was the metering block gasket. When I pulled it off the first time it tore a little so I replaced with one I had got before and never used. Apparently there are 2 different ones for the 4160 and I used the wrong one. I got a kit at the MC dealer today and it came with 2 different ones.

BUT with all my screwing around trying to figure it out I think I messed a few things up. The boat is running great, but I have the mixture screws all the way in. If I turn them out the RPM's go down. Maybe the float is too high? Any ideas appreciated.

Cloaked
07-14-2012, 11:32 PM
It was the metering block gasket. When I pulled it off the first time it tore a little so I replaced with one I had got before and never used. Apparently there are 2 different ones for the 4160 and I used the wrong one. I got a kit at the MC dealer today and it came with 2 different ones.

BUT with all my screwing around trying to figure it out I think I messed a few things up. The boat is running great, but I have the mixture screws all the way in. If I turn them out the RPM's go down. Maybe the float is too high? Any ideas appreciated.Begin with them all the way in, turning each one out approx. 1 - 1-1/2 turn. That should get you very close. If that isn't feasible, you have another issue. Patience. The 4160s are cantankerous but once you learn the characteristics, they work just fine (for the most part).

Make sure the electric choke is adjusted properly. Typically, mid-range on the scale will get it very close. Powervalve can also trick you, so just make sure it's seated properly and is in good working condition.

Have a double-check look-see here ==> http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R8339.pdf

.

SugarLake
07-15-2012, 02:24 AM
Begin with them all the way in, turning each one out approx. 1 - 1-1/2 turn. That should get you very close. If that isn't feasible, you have another issue. Patience. The 4160s are cantankerous but once you learn the characteristics, they work just fine (for the most part).

Make sure the electric choke is adjusted properly. Typically, mid-range on the scale will get it very close. Powervalve can also trick you, so just make sure it's seated properly and is in good working condition.

Have a double-check look-see here ==> http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R8339.pdf

.

Yeah, I know the drill with the mixture screws. I started with them out 1 1/4. Turning them out made it worse, so I tried turning them in and it smoothed out and was best when they were in all the way. I know that shouldn't be the case but the boat is actually running pretty good. The idle circuit must be getting too much fuel but I don't know why. My only theory at this point is the fuel level in the bowl is too high, but I'm not sure about that.

Thanks for the link. Those are the same instructions I have that came with the kit. The frustrating thing about them is in the section were they instruct you on the level for the non-externally adjustable float, they show you where to measure it but nowhere in the instructions do they tell you what the measurement should be!! On the skidim site they reccomend setting them level ( parrallel) but that is way too high. I found I had to set the secondary float way down from that or else I had gas pouring out of the venturis. If anyone knows the measurement for the MARINE 4160 float level that would really help. I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Cloaked
07-15-2012, 08:21 AM
Yeah, I know the drill with the mixture screws. I started with them out 1 1/4. Turning them out made it worse, so I tried turning them in and it smoothed out and was best when they were in all the way. I know that shouldn't be the case but the boat is actually running pretty good. The idle circuit must be getting too much fuel but I don't know why. My only theory at this point is the fuel level in the bowl is too high, but I'm not sure about that.

Thanks for the link. Those are the same instructions I have that came with the kit. The frustrating thing about them is in the section were they instruct you on the level for the non-externally adjustable float, they show you where to measure it but nowhere in the instructions do they tell you what the measurement should be!! On the skidim site they reccomend setting them level ( parrallel) but that is way too high. I found I had to set the secondary float way down from that or else I had gas pouring out of the venturis. If anyone knows the measurement for the MARINE 4160 float level that would really help. I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Here's another link for some ideas that may ring a bell for you.

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2737&title=holley-4160-float-settings

.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-16-2012, 04:17 PM
The relationship between mixture screws and idle speed screw needs to be proper. If the mixture screws are in too far, you can make the carb idle on the main metering circuit - though not very nicely. As Cloaked said, start with the idle mixture screws 1 1/2 turns out and get you idle speed set properly.

If the diaphragm on your power valve (and it should be 2.5) is ruptured, it will run full rich and give you black smoke coming out the exhaust. The only true way to test it is to remove it and hold the outer diameter of it while trying to gently twist the pointy end. If it turns freely it is bad. By turning your mixture screws in all the way, the engine can still run if there is a significant base gasket leak.

pkskier
07-17-2012, 10:25 AM
If the power valve gasket is not properly set it will allow fuel to leak by and the engine will idle with the mixture screws all the way in. Check the power valve gasket.

SugarLake
07-17-2012, 11:07 AM
The relationship between mixture screws and idle speed screw needs to be proper. If the mixture screws are in too far, you can make the carb idle on the main metering circuit - though not very nicely. As Cloaked said, start with the idle mixture screws 1 1/2 turns out and get you idle speed set properly.

If the diaphragm on your power valve (and it should be 2.5) is ruptured, it will run full rich and give you black smoke coming out the exhaust. The only true way to test it is to remove it and hold the outer diameter of it while trying to gently twist the pointy end. If it turns freely it is bad. By turning your mixture screws in all the way, the engine can still run if there is a significant base gasket leak.

Thanks. It's running good now and the mixture screws are responding. I don't honestly know what exactly fixed it but I'm not going to argue with success!

For those of you that have done rebuilds on this carb where did you set the float levels? Level seems way too high but I may have had some needle and seat issues too. I did find a generic guide in the link below but I would think the marine application would be a little different given the angle the engine sits at in the boat?

http://www.holley.com/data/TechService/Technical/Adjusting%20Your%20Carburetor.pdf

thatsmrmastercraft
07-17-2012, 11:13 AM
There is a spec in the rebuild kit for measuring the distance between the float and the surface of the fuel bowl while inverted. Generically this laves the float surface level with the top of the fuel bowl while inverted, but there is a range of measurements (15/64"-1/2") by carb number. There is also a measurement for the secondary float that isn't always the same as the primary setting.

Holley 4160 carbs are a breeze to rebuild as long as you follow the instructions completely.

SugarLake
07-17-2012, 12:08 PM
There is a spec in the rebuild kit for measuring the distance between the float and the surface of the fuel bowl while inverted. Generically this laves the float surface level with the top of the fuel bowl while inverted, but there is a range of measurements (15/64"-1/2") by carb number. There is also a measurement for the secondary float that isn't always the same as the primary setting.

Holley 4160 carbs are a breeze to rebuild as long as you follow the instructions completely.

That's what I need is that spec sheet, my rebuild kit instructions I got from the MC dealer didn't have one. It shows you where to measure but nothing on what the measurement should be. These are the instructions I have, which are also the only ones I can find on the Holley site.

http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R8339.pdf

thatsmrmastercraft
07-17-2012, 02:46 PM
That's what I need is that spec sheet, my rebuild kit instructions I got from the MC dealer didn't have one. It shows you where to measure but nothing on what the measurement should be. These are the instructions I have, which are also the only ones I can find on the Holley site.

http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R8339.pdf

Do you still have the packaging from your rebuild kit? I would be curious to see the numbers.

Here are the specs:

SugarLake
07-17-2012, 03:09 PM
Thanks Mr. MC, that's exactly what I was looking for! But unfortunately the settings for the 80319 carb are blank.

My box is still up at the cabin, I can get the PN from it this weekend if your curious. It looked like an MC part though, plain white box. It wasn't a Holley 703-47.

I have an email in to Holley tech support, hopefully that solves the riddle.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-17-2012, 03:14 PM
Thanks Mr. MC, that's exactly what I was looking for! But unfortunately the settings for the 80319 carb are blank.

My box is still up at the cabin, I can get the PN from it this weekend if your curious. It looked like an MC part though, plain white box. It wasn't a Holley 703-47.

I have an email in to Holley tech support, hopefully that solves the riddle.

There aren't that many blank spots........go figure. They guys at Holly Tech will have the answer for you. Keep us posted.

SugarLake
07-18-2012, 07:22 PM
Holley got back to me and said they should just be set level. Maybe that's what all the blanks mean in the spec sheet. But I'm pretty sure when I opened up my carb for the first time they were definitely lower than that and the carb was brand new last year.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-19-2012, 12:00 AM
I have seen them come from the factory with incorrect settings once or twice.

pbgbottle
06-10-2013, 02:43 AM
bump old thread i just rebuilt my 4160 also it has a blank for my carb # R50419-1
my floats weren't level either but they are now. also the rebuild kit came with the 6.5 power valve not the 2.5
it started and ran fine . but i will get it on the lake tuesday for test drive.

any update to your situation hows your carb working for you .

i used the holley rebuild kit 703-29


also the old needle and seats had different numbers on them primary had 97 secondary had 110 stamped on them .in the new rebuild kit both needle and seats are identical .

just curious why the changes ,my carb is from 88



...

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pbgbottle
06-16-2013, 03:43 PM
I'm sitting on the lake now. Boat runs and idles fine. But when I give her fuel to go she bogs barfs out the top of the carb with a poof sound. And then goes it will stiffer and shudder for a bit and then smooth out. I too was wondering what the float level may be. Mine where not level either. Of it stalls super hard to start also full throttle and crank her over until it roars to life. This sucks. Carb work better befor rebuild. I only rebuilt it because it was 20 years old and leaking fuel out of the accelerator pump
And started to run ruff. I no I got it rebuilt right and cleaned. I check everything and had my mechanic buddy do the technical stuff. But he too was concerned about float levels wit the original settings being so different.
Anyways. I'll check it later when I limp it back home. Haha.


Lll