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Nick911
07-10-2012, 09:24 PM
All, looking to create a hub for sharing PP settings for newer model MC's. What do the three mean exactly (KDW, NN, CS)? What does each do? What are your settings?

For example, raising KDW does what? Lowering it does what?

willyt
07-11-2012, 10:02 AM
correct me if i'm wrong...
KDW is your throttle pull rate, how much gas PP will respond with to changes in speed
NN is your sampling filter rate
CS is your "YEAH!" setting, how aggressively PP will engage

I in my experience, if you run lots of ballast, it helps to increase the CS and KDW settings, and decrease the NN setting.

In my 07 star I’m running something like KDW-180/NN-30/CS-930. Holds speed within .2 mph. at the end of the rope I can’t feel any variation in speed whatsoever

bjames
07-11-2012, 01:30 PM
correct me if i'm wrong...
KDW is your throttle pull rate, how much gas PP will respond with to changes in speed
NN is your sampling filter rate
CS is your "YEAH!" setting, how aggressively PP will engage

I in my experience, if you run lots of ballast, it helps to increase the CS and KDW settings, and decrease the NN setting.

In my 07 star I’m running something like KDW-180/NN-30/CS-930. Holds speed within .2 mph. at the end of the rope I can’t feel any variation in speed whatsoever

I thought the NN was the paddel wheel filter setting for if your on a river or something :confused:

I think of CS as how close to the set speed the cruise will back off accellerating. With a lower CS, I find the accelleration to reduce sooner than with a higher CS setting. If I crack up the CS, the boat will surge way higher than set speed. (without any ballast)

I wish these parameters can be set for each rider profile. Otherwise we have to find a setting that works with and without ballst.

Here are my settings for my 2012 X25;

KDW =230
NN=70
CS=650

GoneBoatN
07-11-2012, 01:54 PM
I got the following from the attached. The attachment was downloaded from the Perfect Pass web site. Although for 2008/2009 it was the only place I could find an explaination of the settings. Actually, my dealer gave me a hardcopy when I asked about the settings.

KDW (Throttle Pull Rate) – KDW can be changed using up or down keys. The higher the value, the more aggressive the control. Heavy boats may need higher values. Factory setting is about 180. Normal range is 120 – 200.

NN (Paddle Wheel Filter Factor) – NN should be set at 50. The higher the value the more filtering is done. If you feel you boat is surging a little, raise value by 20 or 30.
(Normal range is 50 – 100).

CS (Control Setting) – There is an adjustable control setting (CS), which primarily affects engagement in Wakeboard Mode. 750 is recommended, however, if you feel your boat “overshoots” the target speed too much, you can lower the value a little. Adjustments of 20 at a time is recommended. (Range is 650 - 750).My original settings were (not sure if these were set by dealer or defaults):
CS=750
KDW=50
NN=120

Current settings:
CS=750
KDW=120
NN=120 <= I this this setting is still not quite correct.

I believe the original settings had NN and KDW wrong. Boat varied speed a little and engaged too soon which caused it to take a while to speed up to the desired setting. I believe I need to raise KDW and lower NN. I raised KDW to 120 and now it engages closer to set speed (actually a little over) but still varies a little I think I now need to lower NN and then continue to fine tune. So still a work in progress. I'll report back when I have the settings dialed in better. If someone has an X-15 and stock ballast with good settings - please let me know!

Boat: 2010 X-15, MCX, stock ballast (kgb=250lbs, port=150lbs, star=150lbs), OJ 522 prop (14.75x15.5)

GoneBoatN
07-12-2012, 09:30 PM
I was out last evening and spent some time adjusting the settings. With just the KGB full the following worked well:
CS=690
KDW=180
NN=50
I got the same results as Willyt - Good engagement and held to about .2 MPH. What a difference having these settings correct makes. It was sweeeet!

However, when I filled up all ballast tanks, the speed seemed to wander and PP engaged too early (too slow). I'm believe I need to increase CS and decrease NN in that case. We ran out of time in the evening so I try additional settings with all tanks full next time out.

I also seem to notice that how hard you advance the throttle has a corralation to what value of CS works well. So if you are heavy on the throttle on start a little lower CS keeps it from overshooting. If you are lighter on the start then a little higher CS keeps it from engaging too early and not getting to set point quickly. So it is important that you handle the throttle consistently during the start per your settings.

willyt
07-13-2012, 10:33 AM
yea.. after reading all this i'm pretty sure i have to lower my CS setting. it'll overshoot by a good amount if i'm not really heavily weighted

bjames
07-13-2012, 11:36 AM
However, when I filled up all ballast tanks, the speed seemed to wander and PP engaged too early (too slow). I'm believe I need to increase CS and decrease NN in that case. .


Another reason that it would be nice to be able to save the KDW, CS, NN settings for each rider profile. Differenec between full ballast and empty can required different settings.

GoneBoatN
07-13-2012, 02:48 PM
I have a 2010 (no touchscreen on that version) with the BIG/Viper along with PP.

The first version of the software had the ability to store the KDW setting with the rider profile. However CS and NN settings were still in the Cruise Settings screen (not sure the exact menu name) if I remember correctly. After an Viper/Big version update KDW was no longer in the rider settings and moved to the Cruise Settings. Originally I did not like that but now I think I prefer it that way - just my preference. The later version update of Big/Viper was an improvement in many other areas.

Actually, I stopped using the rider settings for the most part. The Ballast settings of % full are based upon the amount of time the pumps are run (settings for the ballast pump run time is under a "Ballast Configuration" menu where you set the amount of time to run the pump in minutes that would achieve 100%). I've found this to be inaccurate as the pump may take some time to prime and the impeller effeciency seems to change. Also changing from one rider (say set at 70%) to another rider (say set at 100%) resulted in the tanks not being filled correctly. Rather I just leave the ballast settings for a rider set to zero and then I just fill the ballast to where I want it watching the ballast guages in the Big screen. More often than not I'm just using "No Rider" and setting the speed as desired depending upon who is behind the boat. I ride at 21mph, my son rides ad 22mph and my daugher rides at 16.5mph - easy.

Now, I do actually like the BIG/Viper. You can see Active and Stored/Prior engine faults. You can select the information you want to see on the digital guage screen - I like Depth, water temperature, etc... I like the analog guage screen as well as I can see all the guages I'm interested in a close grouping (Speed, RPM, Water Temp, Oil Pressure).

Also I've been following the posts about the 2012 issues some of you guys have been having and feel bad about your experience. I had some early problems as well but no where as much as you all have been having. I keep hoping to hear that things get resolved soon for you all every time I read one of the posts in those thread.

GoneBoatN
07-13-2012, 02:52 PM
yea.. after reading all this i'm pretty sure i have to lower my CS setting. it'll overshoot by a good amount if i'm not really heavily weighted

Same here. When my 11 year old daughter rides it is at zero ballast and ~17mph. In that case, as someone else suggested in another thread, I just control the start through to the point where I'm very near set speed and then engage PP. I find this helps much with the over/under shooting of the set speed without having to change the PP settings.

GoneBoatN
10-16-2012, 06:19 PM
Another update on this. A while back I contacted Perfect Pass. My issue was that the boat did well holding speed when I would go over rollers, at which time the boat would drop speed drastically and then take quite some time to return to the set speed.

My X-15 has the paddle wheel mounted about mid-section of the boat, just behind the center drain plug. The person at PP said that this is a common issue with some (many) of the MC boats because of where the paddle wheel is mounted (too far forward). Although I seen a 2012 X-12 and the paddle wheel was mounted just in front of the transmission but behind the gas tank - I wonder why mine is not in that same location.

The PP rep said that NN needs to be higher. I mentioned that one of the PP documents said "NN should be set at 50" as a starting setting. He said that no PP document ever said that. Funny, I got that document off the PP web site; moving on... So I ended up testing NN=125 and then NN=145 each getting better. I'm currently at

CS=750
KDW=90
NN=145

Engagement still seems to overshoot a couple MPH on start-out and I have to wait a bit for the speed to adjust back down. So I think I need to lower CS a bit. Nice thing was that when we hit rollers this past weekend, the boat maintained speed rock steady at no more that 1/2 MPH variance, mostly just 0.2 mph off.

kgrove
02-18-2013, 02:25 AM
Resurrecting this thread as I was using it to try and fix a problem...

I've been having problems with my Perfect Pass Wakeboard Pro on my '08 X-15 surging and/or slowing way down when I hit rollers, especially if it is multiple rollers when a couple boats pass. I went to play with the settings as suggested above to see if that would fix it and got confused. At least in wakeboard mode, mine only has KDW and not CS or NN settings. Are these other two in a different menu somewhere? Or in a mode other than wakeboard mode? Or is there a firmware update that I missed somewhere? Looking at the instructions in the pdf earlier in this thread, I've never seen that screen with CS and NN. Mine goes straight to the named riders list where only KDW is available.

If I can't get this sucker working better, I may fork out the $500 and upgrade to Stargazer so I can bypass the paddle wheel driven problems.

GoneBoatN
02-18-2013, 12:44 PM
Resurrecting this thread as I was using it to try and fix a problem...

I've been having problems with my Perfect Pass Wakeboard Pro on my '08 X-15 surging and/or slowing way down when I hit rollers, especially if it is multiple rollers when a couple boats pass. I went to play with the settings as suggested above to see if that would fix it and got confused. At least in wakeboard mode, mine only has KDW and not CS or NN settings. Are these other two in a different menu somewhere? Or in a mode other than wakeboard mode? Or is there a firmware update that I missed somewhere? Looking at the instructions in the pdf earlier in this thread, I've never seen that screen with CS and NN. Mine goes straight to the named riders list where only KDW is available.

If I can't get this sucker working better, I may fork out the $500 and upgrade to Stargazer so I can bypass the paddle wheel driven problems.

Did you see pages 3-5 of the manual I attached in post #4 of this thread? I don't know if that document describes your gauges/controls or not.

If your X-15 has the paddle wheel mounted the same as mine, the issue is where it is located on the hull. I was told this by the people at PP when I contacted them for guidance on the settings. Mine is by the center drain plug of the boat. So when going through rollers it is actually leaving the water and catching air. The folks at PP said it really should be more towards the stern to keep it from doing that. For me, increasing the filter factor (NN) helped reduce the issue drastically. It does however take a bit more time for the boat to settle into the correct speed.

You most likely know this. But my son would only advance the throttle to where the PP engaged. So when the boat needed to use more throttle it was not able to. I have to remind him to move the throttle a little extra forward.

kgrove
02-18-2013, 03:29 PM
I never saw those screens on my PP. On mine you only choose the mode when creating a new named rider, and when you choose wakeboard mode it only displays an option for KDW. Maybe it's buried in a menu somewhere. Or maybe once you have named rider lists you lose the ability to set NN and CS.

I need to go out one night where I can spend more time with it. Im usually monkeying with it on the water while somebody is waiting for me to be ready and I'm going from memory and don't have this forum or that PDF in front of me. If I can't find those settings in another menu, I'll try a factory reset and start for scratch.

My paddle wheel is indeed near the center drain plug. I used to never have a problem with this and initially suspected something was wrong with my paddle wheel (still possible). I think what's happened, however is that I've recently been riding with better riders who want the boat going a little faster. At 22mph and below I'm thinking that paddle wheel was less likely to come out even going through rollers, but at 23-24 it's causing much more of a problem. Hopefully I can correct this with settings. I don't want to spend the money on a Stargazer upgrade.

CC2MC
02-18-2013, 04:55 PM
I am having some of the same issues. I am not even using the specified user settings bc mine was so bad. I messed with all the numbers with a little change, but I mostly just use the RPM mode now. I am going to try some of the numbers in this thread to see if a combination of them will help the problem. I have yet to try it with ballast in the boat so that may make it even more of a headache. Only a few more weeks until I can throw the boat in the water.

StarLake
07-01-2013, 09:38 AM
Does anyone have the settings for an x2? We run stock ballast. Thanks

puckhead
08-03-2014, 01:34 AM
My manual CS adjustment seems to stop at 1000. It will only go lower with the Auto Setup.

Is anyone else having this problem?

http://cdn3.volusion.com/mtyq5.eu2fn/v/vspfiles/photos/perfectpass_stargazer3eventme-2T.jpg?1378023447

To make it work what worked best for me was to I have an ('05 X-Star with the Stargazer):

1) Weight the boat in the middle range of where your riders normally ride (for me I maxed out the weight because it seems the Perfect Pass will miss if I do setup with no weight).

2) Press the Menu and Up button at the same time to enter setup mode.

3) In setup mode edit Control Setting on this screen do the auto CS number set. You have to drive pretty consistently from about 3,000 to 4,200 RPM and then down to 3,500 or so again. Then the auto will kick in. Reduce to idle and hit MENU to save that number.

4) I next believe?!? That doing the slalom RPM settings at the different speeds may also help the setup as well??

5) Then I go back and manually adjust the KDW and the NN

Mine are:

CS 650-700
KDW 130-140 right now
NN 140

6) Man if all of this fails and U just want cruise control then just goto the Config Settings "Press the Menu and Up button at the same time" again and do "Device Testing". Setting 1.2 or 1.3 seems to be about 22 MPH for me.


Sucks that this is not easier! Really sucks that my MC dealer could not figure it out. They had me call:

Gary Allen at Perfect Pass:
902-468-2150
8-4 est

that may be his cell so use it sparingly?!?!?

-Jason

cwarndahl
09-22-2014, 11:05 PM
Ha found this thread I knew I read it ahwile back and thanks to Aric for his mad search skills. I road behind goneboatn x15 and his perfect pass works way better then mine. Oh ya got the screen fixed so now it's time to try some of these setting tommorow

scottsx2
09-22-2014, 11:35 PM
Have you thought of zero off. That will solve all surging issues.

cwarndahl
09-23-2014, 12:38 AM
I haven't got a clear story on that. I have tried turning on 3 event. And I have heard if I add the gps puck it will install, but no one can verify what I need to do. And the puck is around 800. So if I knew mor I would try. But that's my problem it over shoots 5 to 7 mph, then under another 2 mph. But I was on goneboatn x15 and he was dialed in to maybe 1 mph but I couldn't feel it

scottsx2
09-23-2014, 06:35 AM
Zero off will solve that issue no problem. Your dealership should know what to do, many 2012's were switched over from pp to zero off