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jfw432
07-09-2012, 07:15 PM
Sorry...details below.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-09-2012, 07:22 PM
Cross a plug wire?

Table Rocker
07-09-2012, 07:49 PM
Did you look under the motor box, that's where I found mine when it was missing.

jfw432
07-09-2012, 07:52 PM
I installed the GT40P heads and they worked fine. I just finished installing a Performer intake on my 351w and the engine started missing at speeds above 35mph. I checked all the spark plugs and they look fine so I decided to check the timing...

Well the timing isn't even on the map. I'm using the #1 cylinder spark plug (forward drivers side cylinder) and when I put a timing light on what I believe is the timing marker on the engine (forward passenger side needle), I'm getting what is probably around 45 retarded. I didn't even think the engine could run like that so I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong. I haven't pulled any wires off the distributor in over a year so nothing has changed there lately.

First pic shows the cylinder I'm checking...pretty sure that's the #1. Second shows where I'm checking the timing. Third is the firing order for this engine (no it's not a Mastercraft but you guys have been helpful so far). Last is the location of each spark plug wire on the distributor.

I'm beginning to think that maybe the wires were put on the distributor in the wrong locations. Sound reasonable?

jfw432
07-09-2012, 07:52 PM
Did you look under the motor box, that's where I found mine when it was missing.

LOL...found it!

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-09-2012, 07:56 PM
Did you look under the motor box, that's where I found mine when it was missing.

Funny you said that, I once had a 300zx twin turbo come in on the hook and the repair order stated "engine missing" I figured it was misfiring, I went out to bring it in and it wouldn't start so I go in to get the jump box I popped the hood and the engine was really missing. The advisor thought it would be funny to write it up that way. The owner had taken it apart and put it the hatch area. He couldn't figure out how to rebuild it. That car was a pain in my a$$ for weeks.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-09-2012, 08:00 PM
I installed the GT40P heads and they worked fine. I just finished installing a Performer intake on my 351w and the engine started missing at speeds above 35mph. I checked all the spark plugs and they look fine so I decided to check the timing...

Well the timing isn't even on the map. I'm using the #1 cylinder spark plug (forward drivers side cylinder) and when I put a timing light on what I believe is the timing marker on the engine (forward passenger side needle), I'm getting what is probably around 45 retarded. I didn't even think the engine could run like that so I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong. I haven't pulled any wires off the distributor in over a year so nothing has changed there lately.

First pic shows the cylinder I'm checking...pretty sure that's the #1. Second shows where I'm checking the timing. Third is the firing order for this engine (no it's not a Mastercraft but you guys have been helpful so far). Last is the location of each spark plug wire on the distributor.

I'm beginning to think that maybe the wires were put on the distributor in the wrong locations. Sound reasonable?

theres your problem its wired wrong you went the wrong way...

also you need to do something about the way you did the pcv system

jfw432
07-09-2012, 08:08 PM
Mine does spin backwards... Like I said, this isn't a mastercraft and I probably should've gone to the nautique guys but you all have been very quick and helpful with other questions I've had.

Based on your picture though, it does look like all of my wires should be shifted clockwise on the distributor. Would make since that I'm roughly 40-50 off too.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-09-2012, 08:11 PM
Mine does spin backwards... Like I said, this isn't a mastercraft and I probably should've gone to the nautique guys but you all have been very quick and helpful with other questions I've had.

Based on your picture though, it does look like all of my wires should be shifted clockwise on the distributor. Would make since that I'm roughly 40-50 off too.

ahh its a RH drive engine.

Table Rocker
07-09-2012, 08:24 PM
Funny you said that, I once had a 300zx twin turbo come in on the hook and the repair order stated "engine missing" I figured it was misfiring, I went out to bring it in and it wouldn't start so I go in to get the jump box I popped the hood and the engine was really missing. The advisor thought it would be funny to write it up that way. The owner had taken it apart and put it the hatch area. He couldn't figure out how to rebuild it. That car was a pain in my a$$ for weeks.That's a good story. You should have written it up as finished the next day with, "Engine no longer missing. Engine found under hatch."

JimN
07-09-2012, 08:53 PM
Mine does spin backwards... Like I said, this isn't a mastercraft and I probably should've gone to the nautique guys but you all have been very quick and helpful with other questions I've had.

Based on your picture though, it does look like all of my wires should be shifted clockwise on the distributor. Would make since that I'm roughly 40-50 off too.

Make sure you're not on the wrong part of the cycle. You need to have the crank rotated so #1 has just closed after the exhaust cycle.

If moving the plug wires works, go ahead but again, make sure you're at the right part of the cycle.

Wasn't the firing order on the old manifold? It is, usually.

jfw432
07-09-2012, 09:00 PM
Yes that tag was off of the old manifold. I do believe that the wires were connected properly because I tried to start it briefly with them rotated one hole both directions and it wouldn't start. I checked the timing during the day so the sunlight could've been masking the tick marks and I was only seeing bare spot. I'll check it again when it's a little darker and easier to see.

If the timing is correct though, I'm at a complete loss as to why it's misfiring at high speeds though. It didn't do that 2 days ago with the old manifold.

jfw432
07-09-2012, 09:37 PM
Timing is somewhere between 0-6 at idle. Hard to tell for sure because everything is faded really bad.

I'm clueless... I don't have any idea why it's stumbling/missing now. I have an electronic ignition and new plugs. I suppose I could get a new cap, rotor, and wires but I hate throwing parts at a problem hoping to find the smoking gun.

JimN
07-09-2012, 09:46 PM
Yes that tag was off of the old manifold. I do believe that the wires were connected properly because I tried to start it briefly with them rotated one hole both directions and it wouldn't start. I checked the timing during the day so the sunlight could've been masking the tick marks and I was only seeing bare spot. I'll check it again when it's a little darker and easier to see.

If the timing is correct though, I'm at a complete loss as to why it's misfiring at high speeds though. It didn't do that 2 days ago with the old manifold.

Remember, the crank rotates twice for every rotation of the distributor. You could be 180 off, too.

jfw432
07-09-2012, 10:01 PM
It wouldn't run or would backfire if it was 180 off right? It still runs and took me up 39mph right after I finished the install (previous was 41mph) before stumbling back down to 36-38. After that, it would just surge off and on between 35 and 37. This made about the last 1/4 of the throttle useless.

The only other things I can think of are I had to remove the carb spacer plate that had the PCV fitting in it and run my carb directly on the new Performer intake. I connected the PCV hose to the flame arrestor and even tried disconnecting it from the flame arrestor as well but that didn't change anything. The old hard fuel line didn't fit with this change so I cut the flared ends off and spliced them together with rubber fuel hose. This is temporary and I plan to replace it but that was something that got changed during this manifold swap. It isn't leaking...

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-09-2012, 10:12 PM
It wouldn't run or would backfire if it was 180 off right? It still runs and took me up 39mph right after I finished the install (previous was 41mph) before stumbling back down to 36-38. After that, it would just surge off and on between 35 and 37. This made about the last 1/4 of the throttle useless.

The only other things I can think of are I had to remove the carb spacer plate that had the PCV fitting in it and run my carb directly on the new Performer intake. I connected the PCV hose to the flame arrestor and even tried disconnecting it from the flame arrestor as well but that didn't change anything. The old hard fuel line didn't fit with this change so I cut the flared ends off and spliced them together with rubber fuel hose. This is temporary and I plan to replace it but that was something that got changed during this manifold swap. It isn't leaking...

You have a pcv valve in your stbd valv cover or is it just an elbow run to the flame arrester either way you can't do that, the pcv valve needs manifold vacuum to operate. you will need to add a "t or nipple" to the manifold and run the pcv to that, the engine is probably experiencing blow by causing your misfire at higher rpm. For the port valve cover the breather is acceptable but not correct it needs to be run to the flame arrester. basically one valce cover is a breather and the other needs pcv to manifold vacuum.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-09-2012, 10:18 PM
basically this
or this

jfw432
07-09-2012, 10:20 PM
Oh... I thought the PCV flowed the other way. I was under the impression the breather side was the inlet and the PCV side was the outlet. So it's the other way around? There is a plugged hole in the #4 and #5 intake manifold tracts. Should I use one or both of those for the PCV hose?

DH9441
07-09-2012, 10:22 PM
I think I saw it.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-09-2012, 10:33 PM
Oh... I thought the PCV flowed the other way. I was under the impression the breather side was the inlet and the PCV side was the outlet. So it's the other way around? There is a plugged hole in the #4 and #5 intake manifold tracts. Should I use one or both of those for the PCV hose?

the manifold applies vacuum to pcv it opens and removes the blowby by reburning the HC, the breather side is taking in fresh air. yes you can add a nipple to one of those plugs and run the pvc hose to that. It really doesn't matter which side is doing what function.

The manifold is the only variable, you stated you did not remove wires from cap, I think you fix the pcv and you will be good to go...

jfw432
07-09-2012, 11:14 PM
Awesome! Thanks for picking up on that. I'll see if the parts store or home depot has a barbed fitting that will fit into the manifold.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-09-2012, 11:23 PM
Be sure to let us know how it works out.

sp00ky
07-10-2012, 11:12 AM
Did you look under the motor box, that's where I found mine when it was missing.

Exactly what I was thinking or was it stolen??

TRBenj
07-10-2012, 12:21 PM
It fails me as to why you are posting on a Mastercraft site for a question like this? MC used VERY few reverse rotation engines in their boats, so that alone will reduce your chances at getting correct information. The CC site tends to collect more technically capable individuals from off-brand boats than vice versa... so I would point my mouse in this direction: http://correctcraftfan.com/forum/default.asp

jfw432
07-10-2012, 05:56 PM
Attached the PCV to the manifold and that solved the problem. Thanks a bunch guys!

I don't know either site very well but this thread is a perfect example of why I keep coming back to this site. It took 3 hours to get an answer that I would've never figured out on my own despite my boat not being a mastercraft and my engine spinning backwards.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-10-2012, 06:06 PM
You have a pcv valve in your stbd valv cover or is it just an elbow run to the flame arrester either way you can't do that, the pcv valve needs manifold vacuum to operate. you will need to add a "t or nipple" to the manifold and run the pcv to that, the engine is probably experiencing blow by causing your misfire at higher rpm. For the port valve cover the breather is acceptable but not correct it needs to be run to the flame arrester. basically one valce cover is a breather and the other needs pcv to manifold vacuum.

Nice call. :toast:

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-10-2012, 07:25 PM
Attached the PCV to the manifold and that solved the problem. Thanks a bunch guys!

I don't know either site very well but this thread is a perfect example of why I keep coming back to this site. It took 3 hours to get an answer that I would've never figured out on my own despite my boat not being a mastercraft and my engine spinning backwards.

Glad it worked out :)

JDC
07-10-2012, 07:48 PM
You have a pcv valve in your stbd valv cover or is it just an elbow run to the flame arrester either way you can't do that, the pcv valve needs manifold vacuum to operate. you will need to add a "t or nipple" to the manifold and run the pcv to that, the engine is probably experiencing blow by causing your misfire at higher rpm. For the port valve cover the breather is acceptable but not correct it needs to be run to the flame arrester. basically one valce cover is a breather and the other needs pcv to manifold vacuum.
Nice catch! 81368

cmarty123
07-14-2012, 08:55 AM
I have a 95 225vrs with a chevy 350 tbi. I ordered some new ignition wires from Skidim. They are labeled 1-8 and one is "c" for center I take it. The boat is 45 minutes away and I can't look at it to try and make any sense out of where to put the wires. I know this would be an easy question for an engine guy.

Does the number 1 wire go at the front of the engine (which is in the back of the boat because it's a v-drive) on the right? How would you figure out where 2-8 goes? Thx in advance.

JimN
07-14-2012, 09:07 AM
I have a 95 225vrs with a chevy 350 tbi. I ordered some new ignition wires from Skidim. They are labeled 1-8 and one is "c" for center I take it. The boat is 45 minutes away and I can't look at it to try and make any sense out of where to put the wires. I know this would be an easy question for an engine guy.

Does the number 1 wire go at the front of the engine (which is in the back of the boat because it's a v-drive) on the right? How would you figure out where 2-8 goes? Thx in advance.

Match them by length. 'C' is for 'coil', but if you want to think of it as 'center', that's OK.

If the new wires aren't exactly the same length, don't worry- just match them as closely as possible. I mark my plug wires on each end with the cylinder number, using a black magic marker. I also mark the cap at the #1 plug woe location.

cmarty123
07-14-2012, 10:33 AM
I have a feeling the wires currently in the boat are auto wires. The skidim guy said the indmar wires are longer because of the exhaust manifolds.

Another way to say it just to make sure I get this right: If I take the shortest old wire and match it with the shortest new wire, and the 2nd shortest with the 2nd shortest, etc. would I be in good shape?

JimN
07-14-2012, 10:40 AM
I have a feeling the wires currently in the boat are auto wires. The skidim guy said the indmar wires are longer because of the exhaust manifolds.

Another way to say it just to make sure I get this right: If I take the shortest old wire and match it with the shortest new wire, and the 2nd shortest with the 2nd shortest, etc. would I be in good shape?

If they're all close enough in length and the old ones reach, yes. This is how wires used to be matched when they were sold individually.