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Jason.H.
07-01-2012, 12:07 PM
Boat is all original 1990 tristar 190 351W 270hours, Only thing broke on boat is blower stopped working last trip out.
Well wife and I got up early this morning and took the boat to the lake. Backed it down the ramp then jumped in to start the engine. Nothing. Starter didnt even click. Tried to jump it off from another guys boat and still no start. Voltage gauge would read almost 12v then Id try to start it and the starter would click and voltage gauge would go to zero. Radio works but horn (button right beside ignition switch) doesnt work. You can hear the horn kind of "engage" but does not sound.
I keep the battery on a maintainer in the garage all the time. Boat has worked perfect all spring and summer, worked fine a couple weeks ago last time we took it out.
I took the battery out of my wifes car (08 v6 honda accord) installed it in the boat, same thing, no start. voltage gauge reads about 9volts. What the heck! So i put wifes battery back in her car, It is dead and will not take a charge. Completely killed the battery. I have no idea where to start. It seems like if something on the boat were discharging the battery that fast there would be smoke or smell or something being very hot. I havnt found anything like that.
Anyone ever had a similar problem?? Are wiring diagrams available for these boats? Im an auto technician for acura but its sunday and my multi-meter is locked up at work.

Jerseydave
07-01-2012, 12:25 PM
First I doubt that your Honda battery is going to have enough cranking amps to start that 351.

Install a fully charged battery, dont connect the negative cable and use a test light from the cable end to the neg terminal of the battery. If the light is on bright, you have a draw. First thing I would try is removing the 12V wire off the alternator and see if the test light goes out. If it goes out, you're alternator has a short and is killing the battery.
If the test light is still on, you have to start eliminating each accessory one by one until the light goes out, then you have found your draw.

Jerseydave
07-01-2012, 12:29 PM
Also check your neutral safety switch and your kill switch.
I assume your starter is in good shape?
There should also be a red circuit breaker on the engine somewhere, did you try that?

Matt L.
07-01-2012, 12:38 PM
Start by using the search function. There have been a bunch of threads posting up a basic wiring diagram, PCM I think, but it gets you in the ball park. Checked to see if your main breaker on the distribution block is tripped, or partially tripped???

I'd start looking at the your battery switch if its a dual battery setup, then I would take a close look at the starter relay (if you have one), solenoid, starter, ect... Fried alternator? might cause something funky like that. You're a tech, you know all of this!

Those Tri-Star 190s are great boats, my in-laws had an 89 for years, was great. Too many grandkids so we had to go bigger, X-30 and 240SC took care of that.

Given the age I'd really take a close look at every connection for corrosion induced resistance. I chased that gremlin for a year!!! MC, at least in my 1990 240SC (Indmar Chevy 454HO), used all common copper crappy thick strand automotive wiring, battery cables, and connectors, total crap! I rewired from the batts to the distributor (www.genuinedealz.com for the best place to get marine grade wireing related items) using all over sized marine grade fine strand tinned copper, milspec self sealing heat shrink tubing, crimped and soldered marine grade tinned copper terminals everywhere. I also used DeOxit cleaner and Gold anti corrosion treatment on all connections. Not a hint of corrosion over the past several years.

Good luck!

Matt

jenglin
07-01-2012, 01:21 PM
Check the reset under the main curcit breaker on the back side of the engine. Mine's a white button I pushed in and had power back to everthing.

When it happened to me the boat started fine and ran great. I tried to jump start another boat and when I shut it off I had nothing no power to gauges or anything. Got towed back to the dock and loaded it on the trailer and headed home. I ordered a starter solenoid thinking that was the issue since it has been in the past. I got my light tester out and had a fully charged battery, had power to the solenoid but nothing past the solenoid. I got looking around the Main Curcuit Breaker on the backside of the engine and noticed a white button sticking out. I pushed it in and turned the key and had power and turned over. I must have done something to trip a curcuit and reset button when trying to jump the other boat.

Hope this helps. Good Luck!!!!

thatsmrmastercraft
07-01-2012, 01:26 PM
Sounds like bad connections at the battery, block ground, solenoid or starter. If not, likely corroded battery cables.

Jason.H.
07-01-2012, 02:40 PM
Yeah I checked the little white reset button, It wasnt tripped. All the connections and cables look great to me. I will charge the battery overnight and do some voltage drop tests tomorrow. I think the boat battery and my wife car battery may be toast. (wifes car battery is 550cca and boat battery is 650cca, car battery should start boat with no problews). Seems like there would be a pretty major problem if something is discharging or shorting out the battery in a matter of minutes. Thats the part that gets me, I would think there would be a major spark when hooking up the battery or smoke or smell.


when we were at the ramp I thought about leaving the boat in the water and parking the truck and taking the battery out of the truck to put in the boat. Boy am I glad I didnt! haha thank you everyone for your insight. Il keep you all posted on what i can figure out tomorrow.

Jason.H.
07-03-2012, 09:07 AM
Well, I did some testing last night using a jump box hooked to the cables and found no problems... everything worked fine. Would be my luck to have two batteries fail at the same time.

Jason.H.
07-04-2012, 09:22 AM
Bought a new Interstate marine cranking battery. Installed it along with a new starter solenoid switch and ran the boat with the fake-a-lake and no problems. Either I just happened to have two batteries crap out at the same time or the problem is intermittent and will haunt me in the future. Lets hope for the first one! Thank you again to everyone, you guys are great! Have a safe and happy Fourth of July

JimN
07-04-2012, 10:30 AM
Bought a new Interstate marine cranking battery. Installed it along with a new starter solenoid switch and ran the boat with the fake-a-lake and no problems. Either I just happened to have two batteries crap out at the same time or the problem is intermittent and will haunt me in the future. Lets hope for the first one! Thank you again to everyone, you guys are great! Have a safe and happy Fourth of July

You'll never have a load that drains a battery instantly, without a lot of heat- it's not possible. If you put a wrench directly across the battery terminals, you'll see sparks, possibly fire, melted lead, steel, plastic and a helluva lot of heat. Even then, it won't drain instantly.

Jason.H.
07-09-2012, 02:32 PM
You'll never have a load that drains a battery instantly, without a lot of heat- it's not possible. If you put a wrench directly across the battery terminals, you'll see sparks, possibly fire, melted lead, steel, plastic and a helluva lot of heat. Even then, it won't drain instantly.

Yeah thats what I kept telling myself. No problems yet. Dont really know what happened with the old batteries. They would measure 12.5 volts but zero cold cranking amps.

JimN
07-09-2012, 09:21 PM
Yeah thats what I kept telling myself. No problems yet. Dont really know what happened with the old batteries. They would measure 12.5 volts but zero cold cranking amps.

OK, so you measure 0VDC when you crank- what do you see if you check the voltage a couple of minutes later. Huge current draw ia usually caused by a frozen starter, Bendix or shorted winding in the starter. It could also be a toasted solenoid. Have you removed the starter to have it checked, yet?

homer12
07-16-2012, 09:28 AM
I don't want to hi-jack your thread here, but I've got almost the same boat (except '89) and after being parked and having the stereo on about 45min or so, tried to start the boat and everything was dead. It acted like something shorted the whole system somewhere. Checked all breakers and main reset, nothing tripped. No accessories work, no gauges work (incl 0V on voltage gauge), wiring looks good and tight. Will start with voltage tests and checks this week. We couldn't have had the radio on long enough to drain the whole battery.
Edit: battery is new Interstate this year with 700CCA

JimN
07-16-2012, 09:59 AM
I don't want to hi-jack your thread here, but I've got almost the same boat (except '89) and after being parked and having the stereo on about 45min or so, tried to start the boat and everything was dead. It acted like something shorted the whole system somewhere. Checked all breakers and main reset, nothing tripped. No accessories work, no gauges work (incl 0V on voltage gauge), wiring looks good and tight. Will start with voltage tests and checks this week. We couldn't have had the radio on long enough to drain the whole battery.
Edit: battery is new Interstate this year with 700CCA

Has the battery been discharged completely? It loses about 30% of its capacity every time this happens.

When was the last time you or someone else cleaned the battery cable ends? What kind of battery terminals- normal lead, side terminal with inserts or threaded studs and wingnuts?

homer12
07-16-2012, 10:34 AM
The battery has never been drained that I'm aware of (owned boat for 6 weeks now) but PO stated it was new this year and looks like it. The cables positive and ground cables look fairly new. Normal clamping post style terminals on the cables and I don't see any corrosion on them. I may pull them off anyway when I start troubleshooting just to be thorough, but right now they look fine.

mzimme
07-16-2012, 10:49 AM
Whenever I've had a battery click and then nothing works, it's always been a loose ground connection. That'd be the first thing I check.

homer12
07-16-2012, 10:52 AM
Whenever I've had a battery click and then nothing works, it's always been a loose ground connection. That'd be the first thing I check.

At the engine block or anywhere in wiring system?

mzimme
07-16-2012, 10:59 AM
At the engine block or anywhere in wiring system?

I've had it happen at the battery terminals themselves, and the block. Make sure everything is nice and tight with no corrosion.

This has happened to me when I used to use a 24' box truck for mail delivery. The battery cables were as tight as they could be, but every now and then they'd loosen up just enough to not get a full draw and act like they were dead. I finally replaced the terminals at the battery and everything worked fine after that... never had issues.

Check the positive cables too, not just the grounds.

JimN
07-16-2012, 11:49 AM
I've had it happen at the battery terminals themselves, and the block. Make sure everything is nice and tight with no corrosion.

This has happened to me when I used to use a 24' box truck for mail delivery. The battery cables were as tight as they could be, but every now and then they'd loosen up just enough to not get a full draw and act like they were dead. I finally replaced the terminals at the battery and everything worked fine after that... never had issues.

Check the positive cables too, not just the grounds.

I had a car that couldn't keep the battery cable clamps clean, apparently. It would act like it was dead, I or someone else would remove the cables from the battery & put them back on and it started like it was new. The cables were replaced, block ground was clean, etc.

Could be the ignition switch, could be the main breaker, etc. I would do a voltage drop test on + and -, too.

homer12
07-16-2012, 01:07 PM
I'm thinking the ignition switch might have shorted and be bad. I can't get the voltmeter to only flicker. The only thing showing any life is the fuel gauge if I let it sit a few minutes, the needle will just flick once if I turn the ignition switch to 'on'.

Jason.H.
07-16-2012, 01:13 PM
My problem hasnt came back since putting in new interstate marine battery and new starter solenoid switch. I put four hours on it yesterday and no problems. I replaced positive battery terminals and cleaned block ground too. Sure was nice having it back on the water yesterday!

JimN
07-16-2012, 01:33 PM
My problem hasnt came back since putting in new interstate marine battery and new starter solenoid switch. I put four hours on it yesterday and no problems. I replaced positive battery terminals and cleaned block ground too. Sure was nice having it back on the water yesterday!

If it was shorted, you would see smoke.

homer12
07-21-2012, 12:17 AM
Tonight, I started and measured volts on the battery and got 12V, 12V from block to starter solenoid. I pulled the dash panels looking for fuses or loose connections and didn't find anything. pulled the ignition switch and check out ok. Next thought the battery could have mysteriously discharged completely on me so I hooked a charger up to it. 5min later I was able to get gauges and horn to work. I'm going to let charge overnight and see what happens tommorow. I should also pull the battery and go have it tested.
I have a new starter to put in as I knew the one in it is starting to go bad. Do you guys think it's frozen and that could have almost instantly drained the whole battery?

JimN
07-21-2012, 10:20 AM
Tonight, I started and measured volts on the battery and got 12V, 12V from block to starter solenoid. I pulled the dash panels looking for fuses or loose connections and didn't find anything. pulled the ignition switch and check out ok. Next thought the battery could have mysteriously discharged completely on me so I hooked a charger up to it. 5min later I was able to get gauges and horn to work. I'm going to let charge overnight and see what happens tommorow. I should also pull the battery and go have it tested.
I have a new starter to put in as I knew the one in it is starting to go bad. Do you guys think it's frozen and that could have almost instantly drained the whole battery?

As I posted before, you can't dump a ton of current without a lot of heat. If the battery is unable to store enough voltage (the fact that it only shows 12V is one indication that either the alternator is only delivering 12V and a battery will only reach the voltage it receives) or the plates are damaged/depleted, it won't deliver adequate current. In this case, the voltage will take a big dump as soon as it has any kind of load.

Do you have anything that runs on DC, like an inverter for providing 120VAC? If you do, connect it to the battery and load it almost to its limit. Also, connect a voltmeter to the battery and monitor the battery's voltage. If you see it dropping quickly, the battery is toast. Have it load tested.

If you want to see if the starter is frozen, remove it and connect it to your car battery with jumper cables. If it's frozen, remove the cables ASAP.

homer12
07-21-2012, 02:39 PM
pulled the battery today and had it tested at NAPA. Rated for 700cca and passed at 1100cca, so that's not an issue. Bought some new leads and will replace those to confirm connection is good and tight and go from there.

homer12
07-22-2012, 02:43 PM
Think I got it fixed! Seems like it was the battery cable terminals. After replacing them showed good on voltage, engine cranked, in business! Also seems like this could have been the source of starting issues I have had when the engine was warm. Will see after some lake testing...