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View Full Version : one thing after another....2012 Issues


Mastercraftdave
06-29-2012, 10:58 AM
We bought a 2012 X45 this spring that we ordered from the factory with the 6.2L after making the switch from a 05 Malibu VLX. I had that boat for 7 years and never had one problem with it. First I must say that I love the X45. The boat is huge and drives awesome however we are constantly finding things wrong with the boat.

The first weekend we got the boat we took it to the river and it started running hot. Come to find out the water impeller was shredded into pieces and the boat only had 3 hrs. After figuring out how to change the impellor (which is by far the hardest to change), the next problem was trying to find one that matched up to mine. I eventually found one at west marine that cross referenced to the one we needed. After putting the impellor back in, the wire that connects the alternator to the battery caught on fire and shorted out the cable. We pulled the alternator off to find that the wire was completely melted off the terminal. With the little bit of wire that we had left we were able to make a new connection to attach it to the alternator. After that the boat ran fine and has been sense.

The only problem with the engine now is that the belt whines at higher RPMs. We had the dealer put a new belt on and it still whines. The mechanic said Ilmor said some will do this that itís not a big deal?

Then on to the next issue, we have been having problem with the PnP system, the bags will fill but they wonít drain. The minute that you press drain, it goes to 0% and cuts the pumps off. Many people seem to be having the same issue and we had emailed Mastercraft and they told us they were updating the software. So with that being said, the dealer finally got the update from Mastercraft and installed it yesterday. The service guys called me on the phone to tell me that the ballast is working now however the switch that moves the gates from tanks to bags it leaking a lot of water out of it when it is switched to fill/drain the bags. I swear it is one thing after another. He is trying to order that part but I guess we will see where that goes.

Sorry about the rant but we paid a lot of money for this boat and I have had more things wrong with it than I did when I had my Malibu. Mastercraft needs to get their act together. We bought a Mastercraft because everyone raved about the quality of boat. I will say the boat is amazing in every way, I just donít like how things are constantly going out/wrong. We have been in touch with the regional sales manager and he has been trying to help. He sent us a new wire for the alternator and the dealer installed it no problem/cost. The gel coat problem from the factory was fixed for free. So they are making progress, but I still shouldnít be having these types of problems. No one should.

ShawnB
06-29-2012, 11:37 AM
It pains me to say this but I feel like I keep reading the same things over and over again on the new boats. Technology and quality issues. Here's my assessment of our 2011 X25.

Hull - 9/10
Interior/Fit and Finish - 9/10
Engine - 8/10 (YMMV, but we've been very happy with our 5.7 Ilmor through 200 hours)
Technology - 4/10 (Little annoying things abound even after a full season of use. Plug-and-play, tower cam, perfect pass, etc)

I love the boat but I miss the simplicity of the old 2004 X2.

NatesGr8
06-29-2012, 12:03 PM
Is there lemon laws for boats? I certainly wouldn't be happy if i had even one issue with a brand new boat that costs over 80K!!!

TheWoons
06-29-2012, 12:07 PM
What gel coat problems did you have?

nauti-dreamer
06-29-2012, 12:18 PM
Kinda of makes you wonder what kinda of quality systems is in place for each boat before being delivered to customers. In my mind, when you're pay >$50,000 for any piece of machinery (cars, boats, excavators, etc), every single unit should have a minimum test period (5-10 hours) to work through these items. Hire some engineering students to drive the boats for a day and put them through the paces to find these bugs. Wouldn't that be better than pushing the repairs off to the dealer network and warranty claims?

We bought a '07 prostar 214 about 3 years ago and we went through our own gauntlet of troubles. Most were fixed at no cost to us but it certainly does leave a bad taste in your mouth for the level a quality being release from the factory.

Being a product engineer myself, it really does come down to the details when we consider the "gravity" of your purchase. Yes the boats are beautiful, they drive and handle well and there a plenty of elements in every model that are done very well. However, the devil is in the details!!!

Mastercraftdave
06-29-2012, 12:43 PM
What gel coat problems did you have?

When we got it from the factory it had a chip in the gelcoat on the transom underneath exhaust outlet. they matched the color and got it fixed not but still its a brand new boat.

FourFourty
06-29-2012, 01:05 PM
Dave- Your belt issues sound like there is a contaminate on the pullies..... Did your dealer (or you) use any kind of dressing/armor all, type product in your engine bay to make it look shiny and nice? I see that sort of problem frequently. Usually some carb clean and a wire brush will take care of it.

It is not normal for the belt to wine/squeel at high RPM. I would LOL at my dealer if they told me that.....

I, like you, have been plagued by the PNP ballast issue. They are supposed to have me updated early next week. Other than that, my '12 X25 has been flawless. Almost 100hrs on it already.

TheWoons
06-29-2012, 01:07 PM
When we got it from the factory it had a chip in the gelcoat on the transom underneath exhaust outlet. they matched the color and got it fixed not but still its a brand new boat.

I was just asking because I had some gel coat issues on our new MC as well. Ours has since been fixed and is even better than any new MC. I posted pics in one of my threads back in April/May. I've had several new MC's and every one of them I've had to work out some bugs and make things the way they should be when new. MC needs to step up their QC because it's terrible. Having said that I've been in every other new boat and there isn't another one I'd buy over my X25

Mastercraftdave
06-29-2012, 01:23 PM
Dave- Your belt issues sound like there is a contaminate on the pullies..... Did your dealer (or you) use any kind of dressing/armor all, type product in your engine bay to make it look shiny and nice? I see that sort of problem frequently. Usually some carb clean and a wire brush will take care of it.

It is not normal for the belt to wine/squeel at high RPM. I would LOL at my dealer if they told me that.....

I, like you, have been plagued by the PNP ballast issue. They are supposed to have me updated early next week. Other than that, my '12 X25 has been flawless. Almost 100hrs on it already.

you better knock on some wood ha. I wasnt to happy with that either but he swore up and down that its ok. I was having trouble with the PnP. I took the boat in the week and they updated the software and now the PNP fills and drains perfectly according tothe dealer. They fixed the leak to find that the limit switch for the value that switches from tank to bags is not working properly so they have something else to fix. things are just adding up slowly. I love the boat I just wish I wasnt having all of these bugs. Not to mention the dealer is two hours from where I keep the boat.

Mastercraftdave
06-29-2012, 01:24 PM
I was just asking because I had some gel coat issues on our new MC as well. Ours has since been fixed and is even better than any new MC. I posted pics in one of my threads back in April/May. I've had several new MC's and every one of them I've had to work out some bugs and make things the way they should be when new. MC needs to step up their QC because it's terrible. Having said that I've been in every other new boat and there isn't another one I'd buy over my X25

Couldnt Agree more, for the price we are paying things shoulnt break for a while.

NKDAV8R
06-29-2012, 01:33 PM
Is there lemon laws for boats? I certainly wouldn't be happy if i had even one issue with a brand new boat that costs over 80K!!!
We've had several new aircraft that cost >$7mil. It seems like it always takes about 50-100 hrs to work out all the bugs. ;)

bjames
06-29-2012, 01:42 PM
I just got my boat back from its 10hr service and warranty issues. My problems were as follows;

1. Engine squeeking (low rpms) - They replaced the belt
2. Fron courtesy light not working - found out the mfg never installed the light, just the lense. ***?
3. P&P ballast - rear starboard ballast would not switch to bags - the valve would not turn all the way, something was lodged in the valve.
4. P&P ballast indicator would drop from 100% to 0% if you switch from bags to tank and back to bags. - Awaiting software update
5. Rub Rail vertical transition molding (at transum where rub rail steps down). The modling installation is terrible, its not tight against the gel coat and the metal molding overhangs the gelcoat causing my boat cover to snage between the hull and modling eventually tearing the fabric. They took photos to send to MC.
6. Replaced tower pylon anchor light base as it was cracked when I took delivery of the boat.

Although i consider my issues fairly minor (compaired to my last boat), I am still a somewhat annoyed that these shouldnt be happening on a $100K boat.

bjames
06-29-2012, 01:44 PM
Hull - 9/10
Interior/Fit and Finish - 9/10
Engine - 8/10
Technology - 4/10

I like to add this:

Manual/documentation 2/10 - The 2012 is so out of date that contains misleading information and omits important information and lacks detail on who system work.

Nick911
06-29-2012, 01:55 PM
2012-X25

ZFT4 cover doesn't fit.
Incorrect ballast tank readings.
Inability to plumb in after market bags.

These have been my only real issues. Still trying to figure out the rider profiles. Seems the profiles I create don't activate, but it may just be that I need to figure it out more.

Otherwise very happy with the boat.

bcd
06-29-2012, 01:57 PM
I was debating starting the same thread and didn't, but since you did, I'll chime in. Here's my list:

Before I ordered the boat (last July), I was debating an in stock 11 or new 12. The deciding factor was the tower. I asked how far down the new ZFT2 tower would fold down, and the Mastercraft rep told my dealer below windshield. I have a 7' garage and I looked forward to easily backing the boat in. Tower is actually about 4" above the windshield and doesn't fit in the garage. I got around it with a custom hitch, but I have to get a floor jack out and jack up my hitch to get the boat in and out.

I was also told to get the piggy back ballast system and plumb them into the factory overfill. I then found out that the timers are gone, and I was supposed to buy an expensive PNP option (my dealer told me not to get it) which sounds like it doesn't work correctly anyway. I had to add 15 relays to rewire my system to get it working correctly.

I hauled my boat down to my dealer (1.5 hours away) for recall updates this spring. Paid for the gas myself.

My heater vent came unscrewed and fell out behind my cooler seat. While I was re-installing it, I somehow bent the seat hold open bracket. The bracket that couldn't cost more than $5, cost me $58. Dealer also charged me a half hour labor to install it - 1 screw. I just asked him to order it, not install it.

My heater option doesn't blow hot air, never did. Dealer said they developed a kit to fix this. They weren't going to treat it as warranty, but they'ed give him the parts and pay for 1.5 hours of labor. It took 2.5 hours, but dealer is trying to get the additional hour covered. We'll see how that goes. I had it down there 2 weeks ago.

I brought the boat back on a Monday. Wednesday I noticed a wet spot at the front of my trailer. My brake system has a bad leak. Reservoir was empty, and when I added fluid, it all ran out onto the floor. Back to the dealer I go.

I filled out the contact us page on Mastercraft's website about 2 months ago and never heard a thing back. My dealer suggested I call them on the heater labor issue. I called last week on Wednesday and asked to speak to someone about it. I was transferred to Denny someone, got his voicemail and left a message with my phone number. I haven't received a call yet to date.

I spent what for me is A LOT of money for this boat, and it has been one frustration after another. I don't feel like the dealer or MC even cares. I'm not saying I want my money back, but at least a phone call back would be nice. I love the boat as far as performance and wakeboarding go, but my 02 X Star had 900 hours on it, and it just worked.

bjames
06-29-2012, 02:05 PM
2012-X25

ZFT4 cover doesn't fit.
Incorrect ballast tank readings.
Inability to plumb in after market bags.

These have been my only real issues. Still trying to figure out the rider profiles. Seems the profiles I create don't activate, but it may just be that I need to figure it out more.

Otherwise very happy with the boat.

I found out that my rider profiles will 'activate' (filling ballast, setting plate) after I turned on the Crusie.

Your cover doesnt fit?? thats strange.

bjames
06-29-2012, 02:37 PM
I was debating starting the same thread and didn't, but since you did, I'll chime in. Here's my list:

Before I ordered the boat (last July), I was debating an in stock 11 or new 12. The deciding factor was the tower. I asked how far down the new ZFT2 tower would fold down, and the Mastercraft rep told my dealer below windshield. I have a 7' garage and I looked forward to easily backing the boat in. Tower is actually about 4" above the windshield and doesn't fit in the garage. I got around it with a custom hitch, but I have to get a floor jack out and jack up my hitch to get the boat in and out.

I was also told to get the piggy back ballast system and plumb them into the factory overfill. I then found out that the timers are gone, and I was supposed to buy an expensive PNP option (my dealer told me not to get it) which sounds like it doesn't work correctly anyway. I had to add 15 relays to rewire my system to get it working correctly.

I hauled my boat down to my dealer (1.5 hours away) for recall updates this spring. Paid for the gas myself.

My heater vent came unscrewed and fell out behind my cooler seat. While I was re-installing it, I somehow bent the seat hold open bracket. The bracket that couldn't cost more than $5, cost me $58. Dealer also charged me a half hour labor to install it - 1 screw. I just asked him to order it, not install it.

My heater option doesn't blow hot air, never did. Dealer said they developed a kit to fix this. They weren't going to treat it as warranty, but they'ed give him the parts and pay for 1.5 hours of labor. It took 2.5 hours, but dealer is trying to get the additional hour covered. We'll see how that goes. I had it down there 2 weeks ago.

I brought the boat back on a Monday. Wednesday I noticed a wet spot at the front of my trailer. My brake system has a bad leak. Reservoir was empty, and when I added fluid, it all ran out onto the floor. Back to the dealer I go.

I filled out the contact us page on Mastercraft's website about 2 months ago and never heard a thing back. My dealer suggested I call them on the heater labor issue. I called last week on Wednesday and asked to speak to someone about it. I was transferred to Denny someone, got his voicemail and left a message with my phone number. I haven't received a call yet to date.

I spent what for me is A LOT of money for this boat, and it has been one frustration after another. I don't feel like the dealer or MC even cares. I'm not saying I want my money back, but at least a phone call back would be nice. I love the boat as far as performance and wakeboarding go, but my 02 X Star had 900 hours on it, and it just worked.

That sucks man... My 2011 was in for warranty just about every week last year. Lots of new issues would pop up each week, and lots of re-occuring issues that the dealer had challenges solving. However, I have heard these quirks are not as rare as we might think. I heard that Malibu and Supra have had lost of issues with their displays (not confirmed though).

Nick911
06-29-2012, 03:05 PM
I found out that my rider profiles will 'activate' (filling ballast, setting plate) after I turned on the Crusie.

Your cover doesnt fit?? thats strange.

The consensus is that the cover we have we're designed or the ZFT-2 tower, and not the 4.

nauti-dreamer
06-29-2012, 03:13 PM
I'm sure the customers that buy up all the 2-3 year old boats are very appreciative of the troubleshooting that the "new" boat owners have done in the first 100 hours....And for absorbing the initial sticker shock.

I think I may have to get into that market! ;)

@bjames....Dido on the manuals! They are full of misinformaion and seriously lacking critical information.

rhsprostar
06-29-2012, 03:13 PM
I hate hearing this stuff about new MC's but if it's any consolation, the car companies are having the same issues with their technology as well. Apparently Ford who has been the come back king has dropped like a stone in their quality reports because of customers returning to the dealerships because of tech issues rather than "car" issues. They are not the only ones.......

bobx1
06-29-2012, 03:31 PM
Seems like a simple solution to most of the problems I have heard about is to lock 1/2 of the software developers in one room and tie the other 1/2 to a boat until the interface/software bugs are worked out and a manual is produced. I also assume that the software/interface issues are associated with a 3rd party so it should not cost MC anything.

Most (not all) of the rest of the issues I have read about can be chaulked up to "It's a boat...stuff happens" kind of stuff.

Maybe all the boat manufacturers should think twice about adding a Facebook interface to their boat management systems. I am all for technolgical advances but.....

tommyadrian5
06-29-2012, 04:02 PM
Seems like a simple solution to most of the problems I have heard about is to lock 1/2 of the software developers in one room and tie the other 1/2 to a boat until the interface/software bugs are worked out and a manual is produced. I also assume that the software/interface issues are associated with a 3rd party so it should not cost MC anything.

Most (not all) of the rest of the issues I have read about can be chaulked up to "It's a boat...stuff happens" kind of stuff.

Maybe all the boat manufacturers should think twice about adding a Facebook interface to their boat management systems. I am all for technolgical advances but.....

I've honestly been very skeptical of all this technology going into these boats lately. My 1999 sportstar is as pure a boat as they get...hull, engine, prop, rudder, steering wheel, guages.

I think any boat that needs a 'software update' to function properly is just asking for trouble down the road. I guarantee half of these computer systems don't even work in 5 years and MC will want 10k plus to replace.

kskonn
06-29-2012, 05:25 PM
two words for anyone buying a new Mastercraft boat- "Classic Dash" that is the designator to get your boat with guages and toggle switches, ballast timers are easily adjusted for the fly high plug n play system, things just work. I have a 2011 X2, the service manager at my dealership told me to get the classic dash, save my money to put in the wet sounds system that I wanted. Best advice I ever received. I am 279 housr into this boat over less than a year and have had 0 issues, not even a glitch. Well I did have to change my oil a few times.

itch2ski
06-29-2012, 05:28 PM
I would agree tommy. I just bought my first boat, a 1992 PS205 in very good condition, 20 years old and everything works great. I like the simplicity. I am interested to see how these new boats are holding up in 20 years. A friend had a SANTE from the early 2000s and the digital gauges were failing him within two years, you couldn't tell if the number was a 3 a 5 or an 8. That boat had 1/10th of the tech the new boats have. If people replace computers, phones, and ipads every 2-3 years what are they to do with a 10-20 year old boat? The new dashes are basically a tablet that controls all boat functions. Will these new boats depreciate more due to maintenace costs? If it cost $58 to replace a seat bracket what is it going to cost to replace the pop-up dash on the new x-star?

Trig2275
06-29-2012, 05:42 PM
[QUOTE=nauti-dreamer;853752]I'm sure the customers that buy up all the 2-3 year old boats are very appreciative of the troubleshooting that the "new" boat owners have done in the first 100 hours....And for absorbing the initial sticker shock.

I think I may have to get into that market! ;)

That's what I did and I literally just thought About it the other day that if/when I buy another boat, I'll buy a year old with 100hrs again. The key is knowing or trusting the person that had the boat for the first year and sorted it all out for you.

Jonb1822
06-29-2012, 08:37 PM
Here's my issues so far on my 2011 X25:

Metal bar on bolster seat cutting in to upholstery (warranty replacement)

Swim pad already coming up (warranty replacement)

BIG flashing random green lines across screen ( next warranty replacement :) )

Love the boat but the small things drive me nuts.

swatguy
06-29-2012, 08:46 PM
Sorry to hear your guys issues. I was reamed a new one in another thread for bringing up the bad........... Hate to see it happen , but I wasn't as crazy as they made me out to be and wanted to portray. The boats are still rock solid and one of the best put together on the market. Their wakes for boarding and skiing are still my favorite. They just aren't working out the "bugs" before them send them off and the final quality control has been slacking. Seriously who sends out a boat without a manual. They are more concerned with promo vids and hype then their product these days and it's showing. Hope they get u guys dialed.

We all know all boats have issues that's why they are called boats. It's the frequency and the items with which the new boats are having. They are no longer "little things". These boas are so linked with every piece of technology one little thing will become big fast. I will continue to encourage my buddy's and friends to do everything aftermarket and order boats stripped. Toggle switches and on off buttons will never fail. My family members 25 if killing it. We decided to run all the extra ballast from scratch. Now with all the issues at least we still have ballast.

jeff shelton
06-29-2012, 09:24 PM
two words for anyone buying a new Mastercraft boat- "Classic Dash" that is the designator to get your boat with guages and toggle switches, ballast timers are easily adjusted for the fly high plug n play system, things just work. I have a 2011 X2, the service manager at my dealership told me to get the classic dash, save my money to put in the wet sounds system that I wanted. Best advice I ever received. I am 279 housr into this boat over less than a year and have had 0 issues, not even a glitch. Well I did have to change my oil a few times.

I was told by a dealer that mastercraft may do away with the option for the classic dash.

mikeg205
06-29-2012, 09:53 PM
It's too bad to read about this. But I agree these boats should be close to zero defect when they are delivered. They are not making that many in the grand scheme of things.

At the prices they sell for - and the level of sales the boats should be damn near perfect when they hand you the keys.

AZX45OD
06-29-2012, 10:26 PM
I was told by my dealer yesterday that for 2013 all MC's will come with a touch screen. 4" is standard, 7" is the upgrade...

swatguy
06-29-2012, 11:09 PM
Tige has made that switch as well in the all digital arena except on their base r20 model

snork
06-30-2012, 10:06 AM
I'm all for a all digital helm. How is it possible for a automated hands free operation without it? no more looking for a driver :dance:

Mastercraftdave
06-30-2012, 11:27 AM
I just got my boat back from its 10hr service and warranty issues. My problems were as follows;

1. Engine squeeking (low rpms) - They replaced the belt
2. Fron courtesy light not working - found out the mfg never installed the light, just the lense. ***?
3. P&P ballast - rear starboard ballast would not switch to bags - the valve would not turn all the way, something was lodged in the valve.
4. P&P ballast indicator would drop from 100% to 0% if you switch from bags to tank and back to bags. - Awaiting software update
5. Rub Rail vertical transition molding (at transum where rub rail steps down). The modling installation is terrible, its not tight against the gel coat and the metal molding overhangs the gelcoat causing my boat cover to snage between the hull and modling eventually tearing the fabric. They took photos to send to MC.
6. Replaced tower pylon anchor light base as it was cracked when I took delivery of the boat.

Although i consider my issues fairly minor (compaired to my last boat), I am still a somewhat annoyed that these shouldnt be happening on a $100K boat.

1,3,4 were the same problems that I was having. They changed the belt and the belt still squeaks similar to yours. They got the software update for the ballast and I am told that the ballast now works properly. On the new up date they took the times off of the PnP bags to allow for bigger bags which I have so I was very happy with that.

While they were looking at these problems they found that one of the values that switches from tank to bag was leaking water and that one of the limit switches went out on the value.

This is all covered under warranty however Mastercraft needs to get there act together. I can't believe that other ppl are having these problems.

But I guess with more technology comes a lot more problems. They are trying to make the boat too high tech.

501s
06-30-2012, 03:06 PM
I have the perfect solution to all the tech problems.....

TEST OUT THE BOATS!
Give them to dealers or long time customers to test out, but test them out first!

mikeg205
06-30-2012, 03:24 PM
I wish I had this problem :D - I had the same issues with my benz... MC wants to have the bleeding edge boats to beat out BU and CC. I saw a BU with all the electronics and it looks BA.

Agreed - its not cool and with the economy and boat sales being the way they are I am sure MC is doing their best. Time will only tell.

Anyway, If I could afford a new PS 214 or X-15+ and I was this upset...I would be in Venore tomorrow - hey they are always open to plant tours. :)

Lars
06-30-2012, 08:55 PM
All these computers in boats are very similar to that in cars, except for one very important difference:
They make hundreds of thousands of cars and only hundreds or thousands of boats

I can only imagine that the R&D budget for a car is in line with their production numbers (aka way more)

What my bosses say at work making industrial control panels applies here too:

What costs $1 to fix in design costs $10 to fix in production and $100 to fix in the field.

snork
06-30-2012, 08:59 PM
and $1000s to fix in loyalty

JimN
06-30-2012, 09:20 PM
We bought a 2012 X45 this spring that we ordered from the factory with the 6.2L after making the switch from a 05 Malibu VLX. I had that boat for 7 years and never had one problem with it. First I must say that I love the X45. The boat is huge and drives awesome however we are constantly finding things wrong with the boat.

The first weekend we got the boat we took it to the river and it started running hot. Come to find out the water impeller was shredded into pieces and the boat only had 3 hrs. After figuring out how to change the impellor (which is by far the hardest to change), the next problem was trying to find one that matched up to mine. I eventually found one at west marine that cross referenced to the one we needed. After putting the impellor back in, the wire that connects the alternator to the battery caught on fire and shorted out the cable. We pulled the alternator off to find that the wire was completely melted off the terminal. With the little bit of wire that we had left we were able to make a new connection to attach it to the alternator. After that the boat ran fine and has been sense.

The only problem with the engine now is that the belt whines at higher RPMs. We had the dealer put a new belt on and it still whines. The mechanic said Ilmor said some will do this that itís not a big deal?

Then on to the next issue, we have been having problem with the PnP system, the bags will fill but they wonít drain. The minute that you press drain, it goes to 0% and cuts the pumps off. Many people seem to be having the same issue and we had emailed Mastercraft and they told us they were updating the software. So with that being said, the dealer finally got the update from Mastercraft and installed it yesterday. The service guys called me on the phone to tell me that the ballast is working now however the switch that moves the gates from tanks to bags it leaking a lot of water out of it when it is switched to fill/drain the bags. I swear it is one thing after another. He is trying to order that part but I guess we will see where that goes.

Sorry about the rant but we paid a lot of money for this boat and I have had more things wrong with it than I did when I had my Malibu. Mastercraft needs to get their act together. We bought a Mastercraft because everyone raved about the quality of boat. I will say the boat is amazing in every way, I just donít like how things are constantly going out/wrong. We have been in touch with the regional sales manager and he has been trying to help. He sent us a new wire for the alternator and the dealer installed it no problem/cost. The gel coat problem from the factory was fixed for free. So they are making progress, but I still shouldnít be having these types of problems. No one should.

Ask your dealer if they took the effing boat out for a test drive before delivery.

501s
06-30-2012, 10:00 PM
Can you imagine if the cruise control just surged to different speeds in a brand new car or if the seat belts worked when you got a software upgrade.

New boats with computers should come with a working computer from the factory. It's not a laptop or upod, it's a boat!

mikeg205
07-01-2012, 08:57 AM
Unfortunately, product development vendor choices can lead to a product issue. Negative experiences lead to complaining (acceptable). I wonder how the rest of the population of 2012 product is doing.

As to cars surging to different speeds there were a few recalls if IIRC a few brands (too lazy to look up) here's the latest.. http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/29/12482378-toyota-to-recall-154000-lexus-suvs-to-fix-floor-mat?lite

If it's mechanical if can screw up... and it's unfortunate.

It's cool that someone already found the vendor for the electronic display for the new MC's. I'm hoping the Ilmors are rock solid like the GM and Ford engines...would love a 2012 or 2013 in the next 5-6 years or so.

bcd
07-01-2012, 10:00 AM
All these computers in boats are very similar to that in cars, except for one very important difference:
They make hundreds of thousands of cars and only hundreds or thousands of boats

I can only imagine that the R&D budget for a car is in line with their production numbers (aka way more)

What my bosses say at work making industrial control panels applies here too:

What costs $1 to fix in design costs $10 to fix in production and $100 to fix in the field.

I agree with your design/production/field comments and your volume comparison difference on cars vs. boats for mechanical issues, but disagree for software. Software either works or it doesn't. The issues people are having with the BIG display and ballast are software issues. If the new boat owner can immediately find the problem, then the software test engineer should have found it. There might be some bugs that need to be introduced to cause the issue, such as low voltage, open circuit, but these should all be things the test engineer intentionally introduces to check the software's diagnostics.

ShawnB
07-01-2012, 10:18 AM
The only thing I will say about the PnP issues is that it's _possible_ these were not identified by the factory QA folks because the boats aren't built or shipped from the factory with the PnP installed. Now that's not an excuse -- it's easy to have some bags nearby to take down to the test drive -- I'm just saying its a possible reason it wasn't identified.

JohnE
07-01-2012, 10:42 AM
Ask your dealer if they took the effing boat out for a test drive before delivery.

I agree. I keep hearing of these problems but the dealer should be using the boat to make sure it is 100% right when it leaves his store. My dealer put an hour on mine. That isn't much but must have been enought because I haven't had one problem with my '09. Granted unforseen issues can always arise, but I think a lot of dealers are not giving their all to the customers.

JimN
07-01-2012, 11:05 AM
I agree. I keep hearing of these problems but the dealer should be using the boat to make sure it is 100% right when it leaves his store. My dealer put an hour on mine. That isn't much but must have been enought because I haven't had one problem with my '09. Granted unforseen issues can always arise, but I think a lot of dealers are not giving their all to the customers.

Doesn't even seem like they're giving their 'any' to the customers, in some cases.

If a dealer doesn't take their boats out for a shakedown run before delivery, they need to lose the franchise, IMO. Unfortunately, some states (like Wisconsin), make it really hard for a manufacturer to pull a franchise, even if the dealer is the worst POS on the planet and it's ultimately costing the manufacturer market share, damaging their reputation and making customers hate what they bought. At some point, the dealers' feet need to be held to the fire for this kind of bad service, but MC would have to hire more people to keep track of all of the little-known incidents.

Eagle
07-01-2012, 11:22 AM
OK I feel bad about piling on, but I've had a few issues with the BIG on my 2011 X-25. When I scroll horizontally to view a different screen (eg., I'm on the PP screen and hit left arrow to get to the gauges screen) and then scroll back (eg., hit right arrow to get back to the PP screen), the BIG does not respond for 5-10 seconds. When it doesn't respond, it makes me think I didn't press the scroll arrow properly so press it again, and then when it finally does scroll, it scrolls multiple screens.

Of course it doesn't happen every time and the dealer has been unable to fix.

The complicated electronics in these boats is clearly not debugged enough. The ballast pumps are also rather finicky and don't turn on or off manually all the time -- I have to turn off the engine and restart to get them to work.

It makes me miss the simplicity of my former 05 X-2.

bcd
07-01-2012, 11:23 PM
[QUOTE=bcd;853718]I was debating starting the same thread and didn't, but since you did, I'll chime in. Here's my list:

Before I ordered the boat (last July), I was debating an in stock 11 or new 12. The deciding factor was the tower. I asked how far down the new ZFT2 tower would fold down, and the Mastercraft rep told my dealer below windshield. I have a 7' garage and I looked forward to easily backing the boat in. Tower is actually about 4" above the windshield and doesn't fit in the garage. I got around it with a custom hitch, but I have to get a floor jack out and jack up my hitch to get the boat in and out.

I was also told to get the piggy back ballast system and plumb them into the factory overfill. I then found out that the timers are gone, and I was supposed to buy an expensive PNP option (my dealer told me not to get it) which sounds like it doesn't work correctly anyway. I had to add 15 relays to rewire my system to get it working correctly.

I hauled my boat down to my dealer (1.5 hours away) for recall updates this spring. Paid for the gas myself.

My heater vent came unscrewed and fell out behind my cooler seat. While I was re-installing it, I somehow bent the seat hold open bracket. The bracket that couldn't cost more than $5, cost me $58. Dealer also charged me a half hour labor to install it - 1 screw. I just asked him to order it, not install it.

My heater option doesn't blow hot air, never did. Dealer said they developed a kit to fix this. They weren't going to treat it as warranty, but they'ed give him the parts and pay for 1.5 hours of labor. It took 2.5 hours, but dealer is trying to get the additional hour covered. We'll see how that goes. I had it down there 2 weeks ago.

I brought the boat back on a Monday. Wednesday I noticed a wet spot at the front of my trailer. My brake system has a bad leak. Reservoir was empty, and when I added fluid, it all ran out onto the floor. Back to the dealer I go.
QUOTE]

I went out today, got towed back in. I was cruising in the boat and all of a sudden it started losing power, and started falling off plane. I gave it more gas, but got no rpm response. Oil pressure was good, temp was good, and no alarms were going off. When I stopped, I noticed my bilge was running. I opened my the access panel to the center plug/bilge access, and there was 3-4 in of water. I pulled the engine panels and restarted the engine. I could see water coming out of where my heater supply used to be hooked up. Part of the heater kit mentioned above was to move the hot water supply location. To plug the old supply, the kit had a rubber cap that was hose clamped over the fitting. This was cut and there was water coming out. I couldn't see any other leaks out of the engine. I got towed in and checked my oil, and it was milky. The trans oil looked like it might a little pink too, but it was hard to tell if there was water in it, or just getting thinned out on the rag, but I'm pretty sure there's some water in it also.

sp00ky
07-02-2012, 12:18 AM
It would be nice to see someone at Mastercraft chime in here. My confidence in newer models is not good.

Lucky26
07-02-2012, 07:47 AM
Wouldn't it though!!

Mastercraftdave
07-02-2012, 10:07 AM
I hope the factory sees all of these things wrong. I will say they have been good about getting everything fixed at no cost to me.

nauti-dreamer
07-02-2012, 11:20 AM
I'm sure if it goes on long enough the whole thread will disappear.

Scott
07-02-2012, 10:36 PM
I was with my dealer, for the lake test and the list from mastercraft, is exstensive.. I have minor things that are wrong, with my boat, as well. Nothing that is stopping me from using it, during the summer. When the season ends, I will expect my dealer to make it right, which I believe he will. I honestly dont think the mc quality folks are near as "ocd" as most mc owners (me included). Some issues should be caught, at mc, but they are people and they will make mistakes. I think the other brands are in the same position. We spend ALOT of money for these boats and expect them to be flawless. It's not possible (flawed people build them). I too, believe the dealers are the key. My dealer and I, have our differences, but we BOTH, love mastercrafts.. When the dealers stop running interference and/or stop taking care of customers, it becomes a customer corrected issue. Complain and refuse to buy and changes will, eventually, take place. Work with your dealers, till that time comes and enjoy your boats, at all cost.

bjames
07-03-2012, 01:34 PM
After having my belt replaced (due to low RPM squeeking), the squeeking came back only after a couple of hours of being replaced. The warranty work order did mention that the belt tentioner was tensioned all the way. Perhaps they need to reduce the belt length.

I tired of my 2012 X25 sounding like a hoopty when pulling au to the launch.

My Wish list = 2013 X-Star + Classic Dash + ZFT4

Nick911
07-03-2012, 02:04 PM
Might be too early to tell but my fuel gauge does not seem to be working right either.

bjames
07-03-2012, 02:28 PM
Might be too early to tell but my fuel gauge does not seem to be working right either.

What problems are you having. I noticed my fuel/temp/voltage gauge needles would all suddenly drop to zero then a second later would come alive again. Only notice this happening twice so far.

Also I do notice that when I fill the fuel tank up, my fuel level reads 3/4 when the boat is flat, but once the bow is raised, the fuel reads full. Im not sure what to beleive.

MattsCraft
07-03-2012, 03:31 PM
What problems are you having. I noticed my fuel/temp/voltage gauge needles would all suddenly drop to zero then a second later would come alive again. Only notice this happening twice so far.

Also I do notice that when I fill the fuel tank up, my fuel level reads 3/4 when the boat is flat, but once the bow is raised, the fuel reads full. Im not sure what to beleive.

On the fuel gauge, I think this is normal, mine is close to accurate on plane, ('09-X2) off 1/4 when level. I think this is on purpose, keeps you to the good and due to in tank fuel pump issues you don't want to run a lot below 1/4 tank. Hardest thing on a boat is a fuel float with rocking, on plane, off plane etc. For me, I know what it is and account for it, plus on my boat anyway, pretty easy to pull the seats and check it visually.

wrightcj
07-10-2012, 01:13 PM
Im the total opposite. Bought a brand new Malibu in 08 and it stayed at the dealership more than it did on the like or in my storage building. Have an 08 X-Star now and not a single problem. Good luck!

bjames
07-10-2012, 01:48 PM
Im the total opposite. Bought a brand new Malibu in 08 and it stayed at the dealership more than it did on the like or in my storage building. Have an 08 X-Star now and not a single problem. Good luck!

Must be a really nice feeling :(

Red 08 Xstar
07-10-2012, 03:37 PM
Im the total opposite. Bought a brand new Malibu in 08 and it stayed at the dealership more than it did on the like or in my storage building. Have an 08 X-Star now and not a single problem. Good luck!

Problems so far with my 08 XStar with 180 hours:

1. Depth finder quit working
2. Gas gauge quit working
3. Gelcoat stress cracks where the tower meets the hull
4. Observer seat back coming apart
5. Trailer winch stripped teeth (called Fulton and they said the winch was inadequate for the size of the boat)
6. 3 tower knobs that have unscrewed themselves and got lost

Other than that it's been a great boat!

davomaddo
07-10-2012, 06:18 PM
Definitely agree - with the guys recommending keeping things simple and buying boats a year or two old and not the latest model.
The less bells and whistles there are, the less stuff there is to break.
The marine environment is harsh and the boat MFG's don't seem to get it right the first time.

MIMC
07-10-2012, 06:19 PM
Very discouraging on the zero response from Mastercraft corporate on this particular thread. :(

Any industry (marine or automotive) should be focused on customer satisfaction - period! Boats/cars are mechanical things and will have issues, especially introducing new technology - but no response from the manufacturer is simply unacceptable. Even a phone call acknowledging the issues and apologizing for them can make the difference. I also agree that dealer participation and relationship is key with the customer. I'm not saying a Nautique or Malibu is any better than an MC, but this thread gives the connotation of poor customer service from Mastercraft and can lead potential (future or repeat) buyers to the other manufacturers. Curious if any of the previous posts ever received a call back from Mastercraft corporate?

MIMC

bjames
07-10-2012, 06:54 PM
Also, MC haters on WW tend to have a hey day with these kinds of threads on TT.

Scott
07-10-2012, 07:00 PM
Very discouraging on the zero response from Mastercraft corporate on this particular thread. :(

Any industry (marine or automotive) should be focused on customer satisfaction - period! Boats/cars are mechanical things and will have issues, especially introducing new technology - but no response from the manufacturer is simply unacceptable. Even a phone call acknowledging the issues and apologizing for them can make the difference. I also agree that dealer participation and relationship is key with the customer. I'm not saying a Nautique or Malibu is any better than an MC, but this thread gives the connotation of poor customer service from Mastercraft and can lead potential (future or repeat) buyers to the other manufacturers. Curious if any of the previous posts ever received a call back from Mastercraft corporate?

MIMC

HMMMM??

madcityskier
07-10-2012, 08:11 PM
Doesn't even seem like they're giving their 'any' to the customers, in some cases.

If a dealer doesn't take their boats out for a shakedown run before delivery, they need to lose the franchise, IMO. Unfortunately, some states (like Wisconsin), make it really hard for a manufacturer to pull a franchise, even if the dealer is the worst POS on the planet and it's ultimately costing the manufacturer market share, damaging their reputation and making customers hate what they bought. At some point, the dealers' feet need to be held to the fire for this kind of bad service, but MC would have to hire more people to keep track of all of the little-known incidents.

CorrectCraft didn't seem to have any problem yanking their franchise out of their Madison dealer. Sounds like a good way to end bad service. Sadly neighbor has a SAN 210 under warranty and can't get service. Closest dealer is Lauderdale Lakes, who basically says to drop it off and if they don't have anything else to do they might look at it. Won't give even a guess at timeframe when he called in April/May. Figure if there was any dealer CorrectCraft could bring pressure to bear on them to get repairs right, careful what you wish for.

2RLAKE
07-10-2012, 10:43 PM
Very discouraging on the zero response from Mastercraft corporate on this particular thread. :(

Any industry (marine or automotive) should be focused on customer satisfaction - period! Boats/cars are mechanical things and will have issues, especially introducing new technology - but no response from the manufacturer is simply unacceptable. Even a phone call acknowledging the issues and apologizing for them can make the difference. I also agree that dealer participation and relationship is key with the customer. I'm not saying a Nautique or Malibu is any better than an MC, but this thread gives the connotation of poor customer service from Mastercraft and can lead potential (future or repeat) buyers to the other manufacturers. Curious if any of the previous posts ever received a call back from Mastercraft corporate?

MIMC

.. so why do you expect someone from MC to post on here saying they are working to resolve mastercraftdave's issues (being a dave i love that name) ... maybe they are doing what they do best in just resolving issues with no fanfare. I believe that MC has already worked with him to resolve the issues. expecting they to fly in here and post responses is unrealistic

I belong to several other forums and they are for owners/enthusiasts/etc ... i would not expect companies to post responses

JimN
07-10-2012, 11:13 PM
CorrectCraft didn't seem to have any problem yanking their franchise out of their Madison dealer. Sounds like a good way to end bad service. Sadly neighbor has a SAN 210 under warranty and can't get service. Closest dealer is Lauderdale Lakes, who basically says to drop it off and if they don't have anything else to do they might look at it. Won't give even a guess at timeframe when he called in April/May. Figure if there was any dealer CorrectCraft could bring pressure to bear on them to get repairs right, careful what you wish for.

They may have worked out an agreement where the dealer relinquished the franchise. WI has, or had, rules that made it almost impossible to pull a franchise without the franchisee being able to sue the manufacturer. When Tige pulled the franchise from the first MC dealer I worked for, the dealer sued, and won easily. As much as Wisconsin talks about being on the side of consumers, this is a glaring example of when they clearly aren't.

Stefan
07-11-2012, 05:42 AM
Allright here we go, since I spread many of my issues with my 2012 x-15 amongst other threads, might as well sum 'em up here...

1. worst of all, cruise never really worked until now, figured it out myself seems to be a defective Sumlog sensor, this includes a speedo that's displaying to much and surftags that won't go all the way down

2. horrible BIG Software, despite having the latest update, it crashes, doesn't work or makes mistakes in many different parts

3. Drivers seat bolster issue, the plasic(not metal) fold-up bolster frame scratches the vinyl, fixed it myself so it doesen't get worse, but already had scratches after the first time out with the boat

4. Drivers seat rear bolster, seam comes apart

5. side heater outlet, lower washer missing

6. glovebox comes open when boat hits wave

7. Boardrack end bolt just fellt out into the water - fixed myself

8. about an inch of water on the platform when boat is completly empty with 2 people

9. pixel fault in the original GDIG, one horizontal line of defects - fixed

10. screw missing in the wall between engine and rear stb compartment, no signs there ever was one in the hole - fixed

11. no german manual, thus not allowed to sell the boat in Germany due to CE-Regulations, question is what am I paying in the CE package for then?

12. no manual for BIG for the Version in my boat at all

13. no manual for instrumentation/system/GDIG until a couple of days ago (end of model year)

JimN
07-11-2012, 08:53 AM
Allright here we go, since I spread many of my issues with my 2012 x-15 amongst other threads, might as well sum 'em up here...

1. worst of all, cruise never really worked until now, figured it out myself seems to be a defective Sumlog sensor, this includes a speedo that's displaying to much and surftags that won't go all the way down

2. horrible BIG Software, despite having the latest update, it crashes, doesn't work or makes mistakes in many different parts

3. Drivers seat bolster issue, the plasic(not metal) fold-up bolster frame scratches the vinyl, fixed it myself so it doesen't get worse, but already had scratches after the first time out with the boat

4. Drivers seat rear bolster, seam comes apart

5. side heater outlet, lower washer missing

6. glovebox comes open when boat hits wave

7. Boardrack end bolt just fellt out into the water - fixed myself

8. about an inch of water on the platform when boat is completly empty with 2 people

9. pixel fault in the original GDIG, one horizontal line of defects - fixed

10. screw missing in the wall between engine and rear stb compartment, no signs there ever was one in the hole - fixed

11. no german manual, thus not allowed to sell the boat in Germany due to CE-Regulations, question is what am I paying in the CE package for then?

12. no manual for BIG for the Version in my boat at all

13. no manual for instrumentation/system/GDIG until a couple of days ago (end of model year)

Where is the dealer- have they refused to correct these?

Heelgrad
07-11-2012, 09:16 AM
Where is the dealer- have they refused to correct these?

Stefan, I'm assuming your dealer is quite a ways away from you because given that everything is under warranty, I know my dealer would have gone above and beyond the call of duty getting all these issues taken care of for me. I noticed you did all the little repairs yourself. All I can guess is that you were trying to minimize downtime. Regarding the BIG, I can empathize with your frustrations. If you can get a GDIG with version 2.2 software it should help out a lot of problems based on my experience thus far.

aquaman
07-11-2012, 09:58 AM
since i have an older MC i can not relate to all the problems the new boats are having.


seems there are 2 areas of problems being reported.

BASIC Boat quality + TECH Bells + Whistle issues.

i think MC is failing on Boat quality because they are obessed with adding alot of TECH to the boats.....much of which is not needed....and more importanly UNTESTED.

Boat quality is what attracts new owners to the MC brand. does it really matter how much Tech a boat has if the engine is failing, heaters fail, and seats dont work ?

From all the venting on this thread it appears that many MasterCraft owners have been suffering Quietly...... all these new boat issues ? :confused:

Stefan
07-11-2012, 12:21 PM
Where is the dealer- have they refused to correct these?

The dealer is doing the best he can incorperating he hasn't sold to many 2012 Boats yet, but he's not getting much if any help from Mastercraft GB who are the ones that are supposed to help him...

They just basicly let the dealer and me die of thirst for information...

btw. until Mastercraft put the 2012 GDIG Systems and Instrumentation Manual online last week (end of MY2012!!!) nobody had any idea how the 2012 boat electronics really work. So we were just guessing around...

Stefan, I'm assuming your dealer is quite a ways away from you because given that everything is under warranty, I know my dealer would have gone above and beyond the call of duty getting all these issues taken care of for me. I noticed you did all the little repairs yourself. All I can guess is that you were trying to minimize downtime. Regarding the BIG, I can empathize with your frustrations. If you can get a GDIG with version 2.2 software it should help out a lot of problems based on my experience thus far.

Yes he is, so driving there and back with the boat on a trailer including repairs takes a day...
But he's trying to make that up as good as he can by sending exchange components back and forth, what bugs me more is having to test all the time because we're just guessing about the boat's system and Mastercraft GB is not much help.
For instance I sent them an official complaint which was technically detailled including all that was done, exchanged and tested, including all software versions, serial numbers etc., roughly two pages (english is only second nature to me ;) ). What we got back from Mastercraft GB was one sentence asking about the software versions...well someone obviously stopped reading my email after the first paragraph...these are the things that really get me going...
The next thing is them (MC GB) telling me that for my dealer-fitted BIG to work I need a GDIG v0.22 but since they can't update the old ones (v0.20) they're refusing to exchange for a new one they want me or the dealer to pay for it. All I can tell you is better not let the dealer change anything or MC will refuse warranty responsibility even though the issues were there before the addition and are there after a removal for testing.
Keep in mind here that MC and the dealers are suggesting that with a fully wired harness in every boat, any additions afterwards are no problem.

Don't get me wrong, I really love my boat and I seriously hope all these things will be fixed since I'm sure they can be fixed, and I will do my share even though I shouldn't have to... but customer care has been a bad experience so far, mainly due to whoever has to help the dealer with the new boats isn't doing their job. MC being an american company who usually take pride in their customer service doesn't make it...well guess yourself...
Oh and btw I've talked to at least two more people with 2012 boats in europe who are experiencing similar things with the customer/dealer support in europe...

bjames
07-11-2012, 12:57 PM
IMO, a MasterCraft is considered a second or third boat for many people (at least not for a first time buyer). Im sure many people would expect moving up to a $100K boat would assume it would have very little issues. For me, I was pretty surprised and disipointed that my first MC (X25) was buggier than my previous entry level Moomba. It was not what i was expecting.

I would have to say most of the issues with my 2012 X25 are related to the BIG.

Mastercraftdave
07-11-2012, 01:28 PM
IMO, a MasterCraft is considered a second or third boat for many people (at least not for a first time buyer). Im sure many people would expect moving up to a $100K boat would assume it would have very little issues. For me, I was pretty surprised and disipointed that my first MC (X25) was buggier than my previous entry level Moomba. It was not what i was expecting.

I would have to say most of the issues with my 2012 X25 are related to the BIG.

Same here. The ballast problem was the main thing wrong with my boat. I guess that the price you pay for have the most high tech equipment

vision
07-11-2012, 02:13 PM
There are several factors that led to my loss of confidence in MCs leadership. The minor but still nagging QC issues are certainly a significant factor. This is not a BIG problem only. The VDIG had issues as well. Plus use of apparently lower quality third party items (dash switches, the T-handle release mechanism on the swivel racks, pneumatic struts...). But other behavior is concerning. The announcement of their new flagship boat that is then not available for one year. Do you really think they planned to not have any 2012 X-stars? I think not. The lack of adequate documentation and complete user manual, either online or even available for their poor dealers, for often a year or more after introduction of new equipment also shows a lack of leadership. Likewise their is no excuse for the web site taking 5 to 6 months to be updated after the availability of a new model years boats. As stated, when you charge a premium for your boat, owners have a right to not experience these issues.

And sorry, the "but it is new technology and cutting edge, so some problems are expected..." does not cut it for me. I switched teams for several reasons. But one was because the day the other company announced their flagship boat, you could build it online, the complete manual including the newly available engines and new software, was available online line, I could submit an order that day for the boat and get a firm delivery date, and I could go to the companies plant and sit in, drive, and thorough inspect the new model.

MC builds a great boat. For the money, it should be better.

MattsCraft
07-11-2012, 03:03 PM
I hope you enjoy your "Tank" sorry, just not a fan and think their boats are ugly. I do believe they make a quality boat, just not a fan of the styling. Since you have switched "Teams" why are you still here posting on TT and not over on Planet Nautique?

There are several factors that led to my loss of confidence in MCs leadership. The minor but still nagging QC issues are certainly a significant factor. This is not a BIG problem only. The VDIG had issues as well. Plus use of apparently lower quality third party items (dash switches, the T-handle release mechanism on the swivel racks, pneumatic struts...). But other behavior is concerning. The announcement of their new flagship boat that is then not available for one year. Do you really think they planned to not have any 2012 X-stars? I think not. The lack of adequate documentation and complete user manual, either online or even available for their poor dealers, for often a year or more after introduction of new equipment also shows a lack of leadership. Likewise their is no excuse for the web site taking 5 to 6 months to be updated after the availability of a new model years boats. As stated, when you charge a premium for your boat, owners have a right to not experience these issues.

And sorry, the "but it is new technology and cutting edge, so some problems are expected..." does not cut it for me. I switched teams for several reasons. But one was because the day the other company announced their flagship boat, you could build it online, the complete manual including the newly available engines and new software, was available online line, I could submit an order that day for the boat and get a firm delivery date, and I could go to the companies plant and sit in, drive, and thorough inspect the new model.

MC builds a great boat. For the money, it should be better.

vision
07-11-2012, 03:30 PM
I hope you enjoy your "Tank" sorry, just not a fan and think their boats are ugly. I do believe they make a quality boat, just not a fan of the styling. Since you have switched "Teams" why are you still here posting on TT and not over on Planet Nautique?

Nice...

I enjoy watercraft from many companies. I still own an MC. I too enjoy their styling. And, I do post on Planet Nautique.

I am sure I will enjoy my "tank".

76S&S
07-11-2012, 06:13 PM
I don't own a 2012 so I can't say one way or the other, but from what I'm reading on this forum and others, MC has an issue. I have been an MC user/owner (dad bought the first one) since 1979. No other brand of ski and/or wake boat has been in my garage or boathouse, so I consider myself to be a loyal follower. That being said, when it is time for my next boat, it will either be a used, pre VDIG/BIG boat or another brand. They have priced me right out of the new MC market, expecially when there are good new wake boats without the electronics and bling for half the price. I feel like they have left people like me behind and are targeting a different group. I do question how many of this new group will be repeat buyers though if something doesn't improve.

Advancements in technology are fine, but I don't consider it an advancement if it doesn't work!

2RLAKE
07-11-2012, 06:14 PM
Guys ... One man's opinion ... This thread is heading in the wrong direction IMO

moleson10
07-11-2012, 07:14 PM
This is an interesting thread and kudo's to the moderators for not taking it down. All boats have issues, nature of the beast. They are not like cars unfortunately which have gotten quite good in recent years. And remember those who post are the ones that had issues, you rarely hear from those who didn't.

That said I think MC should make quality a very high priority or they will lose customers. They remind me of my wife's Range Rover. Everyone knows they are the top brand but the owners know something the rest of the world doesn't. And it isn't all good. My Jeep GC is a more reliable and in many ways a better designed vehicle.

aquaman
07-11-2012, 07:36 PM
Guys ... One man's opinion ... This thread is heading in the wrong direction IMO

i know i have read at least twice that MC owners emails to the Company went un-answered?

i suppose they are now coming to speak out......all at once.

MC owners deserve to be heard and not censored.


after all, what better Source for MC to get product reviews than from actual MC boat owners ?

the Strong do not fear the Truth.

Voodoo
07-11-2012, 08:18 PM
Guys ... One man's opinion ... This thread is heading in the wrong direction IMO

Yikes. People are pissed. What's the problem? Are you advocating censorship? My MC is 25 years old and I like it, but I am not married to it. I have been reading the threads regarding the new boats out of pure curiosity but at the same time I try to keep an open mind. If I spent that kind of money and the boat was delivered to me with the issues described in any of these threads I'd be angry too. What kind of "direction" would you like to see this "head"?

Voodoo

lettmeknow
07-11-2012, 08:28 PM
It's seems like MC puts alot of weight on their dealers . I think MC should get most of all bugs worked out before leaving the factory. I would think in todays economic climate, boat dealars and are having a hard enough time staying profitable, without having boats needing so much work to get them right for the customer. I'm sure they don't like being yelled at when someones weekend is ruined by some faulty switch somewhere as well.

94PS190
07-12-2012, 09:53 AM
Light was missing, but cover was installed? I hope you mean bulb was missing. Don't tell me someone just screwed a cover over nothing !!!!! I love my MC and it will be the first boat I look at when I upgrade, but that is terrible.

02ProstarSammyD
07-12-2012, 10:43 AM
This scares me. I'm planning on buying a new boat over winter but I'm buying to be care free not worry about issues. I wouldn't expect a mercedes to roll off the truck without speakers or lights and I sure as hell wouldn't expect it out of a boat. I understand this is a much more "custom and human" operation but seriously boats coming without options and playing the waiting game is rediculous. Price hikes and QA drops. Maybe it was just easier to do QA on simply built boats. Good excuse to put together a budget wake boat :)

Red 08 Xstar
07-12-2012, 11:51 AM
When I was purchasing my Xstar I took a test ride in a brand new X2 and it almost sank. It started taking on a huge amount of water in the engine compartment and we barely made it back to the boat ramp. I'm not sure what it turned out to be, but it definitley wasn't the drain plug. Talk about bad quality control!!

aquaman
07-12-2012, 12:03 PM
This scares me. I'm planning on buying a new boat over winter but I'm buying to be care free not worry about issues. I wouldn't expect a mercedes to roll off the truck without speakers or lights and I sure as hell wouldn't expect it out of a boat. I understand this is a much more "custom and human" operation but seriously boats coming without options and playing the waiting game is rediculous. Price hikes and QA drops. Maybe it was just easier to do QA on simply built boats. Good excuse to put together a budget wake boat :)

good comparison....toyota + bmw + mercedes understand that customers will pay more for quality....IF it is delivered and backed.

from the postings it sounds like MC has replaced the Quality boat of the past .........with the Bling boat of the future ? :confused:

bjames
07-12-2012, 12:05 PM
Light was missing, but cover was installed? I hope you mean bulb was missing. Don't tell me someone just screwed a cover over nothing !!!!! I love my MC and it will be the first boat I look at when I upgrade, but that is terrible.

Yup... Lens was installed but nothing behide but wires (at least thats what I was told by the dealer). I assume some forgot to finish their task.

02ProstarSammyD
07-12-2012, 12:16 PM
good comparison....toyota + bmw + mercedes understand that customers will pay more for quality....IF it is delivered and backed.

from the postings it sounds like MC has replaced the Quality boat of the past .........with the Bling boat of the future ?
Fine line of where you stop losing sales due to no bling and high $............and where you lose customers due to the bling not working.

I work in construction and I can say the most important job on our sites is our QA guys. It doesn't matter who eff'd up what as long as its caught before rework is required. It costs exponentially more to fix something after the fact so why not put the effort in to do it right the first time? You just never hear of someone getting a perfect boat the first time and thats the really alarming part. If someone from MC is reading I have QA experience, a degree in manufacturing and industrial supervision, and will take a crappy salary with a free 25. You can even have my old x9. Can relocate tomorrow

JimN
07-12-2012, 12:28 PM
When I was purchasing my Xstar I took a test ride in a brand new X2 and it almost sank. It started taking on a huge amount of water in the engine compartment and we barely made it back to the boat ramp. I'm not sure what it turned out to be, but it definitley wasn't the drain plug. Talk about bad quality control!!

Really? You want to blame the factory for that when the boat probably needed to have the hoses put on the raw water & circulating pumps, connected at the rear, the hull plug(s) installed and all kinds of other stuff before it goes in the water? Do you think they show up at the dealership with, or without, a battery? What other misconceptions are you venting about?

You think these come in a satin-lined box, don't you? It's not jewelry and it's not a car- it's a boat and they need to be set up FOR THE CUSTOMER, BY THE DEALER.

JimN
07-12-2012, 12:29 PM
good comparison....toyota + bmw + mercedes understand that customers will pay more for quality....IF it is delivered and backed.

from the postings it sounds like MC has replaced the Quality boat of the past .........with the Bling boat of the future ? :confused:

You think those brands haven't had their share of problems? Ask a mechanic about the BMW 6 series.

aquaman
07-12-2012, 12:46 PM
Fine line of where you stop losing sales due to no bling and high $............and where you lose customers due to the bling not working.

I work in construction and I can say the most important job on our sites is our QA guys. It doesn't matter who eff'd up what as long as its caught before rework is required. It costs exponentially more to fix something after the fact so why not put the effort in to do it right the first time? You just never hear of someone getting a perfect boat the first time and thats the really alarming part. If someone from MC is reading I have QA experience, a degree in manufacturing and industrial supervision, and will take a crappy salary with a free 25. You can even have my old x9. Can relocate tomorrow


i totally agree w/you sammy.

there are no acceptable reasons for Losing customers.....fine line or not.

aquaman
07-12-2012, 12:53 PM
You think those brands haven't had their share of problems? Ask a mechanic about the BMW 6 series.

my point was that those brands consistently have Fewer problems.

my experience with Mulitple toyotas + bmw's over 20yrs has been great. :)

Consumer Reports supports tends to agree.



one model does not make a brand bad.

02ProstarSammyD
07-12-2012, 01:13 PM
You think those brands haven't had their share of problems? Ask a mechanic about the BMW 6 series.

or any 7 series. Toyota pretty much created lean manufacturing, mercedes is by fair the pinnacle of engineering in the real world auto industry, and I have really nothing positive to say about bmw other than they come with speakers and headlights. I don't think the argument was that bmw's wont have problems down the road but I think the boating industry is hitting an unparraleled mark of failure.

Since you brought up the reliability lets talk about it. None of this is in regard to engines, transmissions, or major mechanical equipment which is phenominal. You hear of people driving a car 20k miles and the tranny blows. I mean for Gods sake one non production G23 blew a tranny and people are mocking it. These are huge positives for the industry and I'm happy about that. All of this is great and well but the "bling" is not working. It amazes me to read the same topics about interface problems, ballast issues, and cruise control. Like holy crap why the problems? Everything worked before. Even if you lost a gauge you popped a new one in and done. Now they can't even figure out whats going on with some of these issues. Its just rediculous and I'm not going to pay 100k for a freaking boat that I know is gonna have a chance of these issues with even further knowledge that its not going to be fixed immediately and with care.

Now the original point I was referring to is that you get these cars in working order. I am a car addict and usually buy one yearly. At no point have I ever taken delivery of a car and an option been missing. You can throw whoever you want under the bus as far as dealer vs manufacturer but the point is its rediculous. There is no freakin reason that a 100k boat is not inspected to 100% before it hits your hands. I'm not just pointing the finger at mastercraft. I've read it on other more general forums about all types of boats. The difference is that the whole selling feature of mastercrafts is quality and customer service. Every option should be checked off, every button pushed, and a good water test performed. Chips in gel can happen but really how are you going to justify a boat showing up with no light installed, no speakers, or the wrong platform? Was someones eyeball poked out that morning and they couldn't read that it was to have a fiberglass platform. Delay the delivery one day and have someone dilligent comb 2 boats a day for every freaking problem imaginable. If you say thats ludacris IDK *** you expect out of a 100k but I've got some high freaking expectations.

To me all of this just shows a further push in the industry to appeal to the newer generation with a lack of consideration to the basics. Rake me over the coals if you want but its just my opinion and its not just pointed at MC. At this point any new boat is starting to scare me b/c you lose the reliability factor that they once produced which is the same reason we buy new cars. How much is a new screen going to cost after warranty and is it even going to be available after 5 years? History says no

my point was that those brands consistently have Fewer problems.

my experience with Mulitple toyotas + bmw's over 20yrs has been great.

Consumer Reports supports tends to agree.



one model does not make a brand bad.

I don't think anyone here is calling MC a bad brand. The issues are too generalized across the board but it does need to be resolved. You have 9 pages here of issues and I fail to believe that the ones posting are the only ones. If I was MC I would much rather this thread be happening here than somewhere like wakeworld where it would be fuel for years.

aquaman
07-12-2012, 01:53 PM
i was referring to bmw Not being a bad brand because one bad 6 model.


prosammy......you are Most correct on 2 big points.......the comments we see on this thead are a Small sampling of MC owners.
and.....the issues owners are having cover several models, several mechanical systems.....and the dealer network.

just my observation.

Stefan
07-12-2012, 03:25 PM
Hi Folks,

I just got back from a test drive hoping it is just the paddlewheel, but it's not. Seems for now I really need a new GDIG V0.22 and Mastercraft will make my dealer (eventually me) pay for it since I wanted the dealer to ad a 2012 BIG touchscreen to my new 2012 boat after it was built. But even when we remove the added touchscreen the cruise is not working, but MC still is not accepting the complaint. :(

ddanenberger
07-12-2012, 03:37 PM
Hi Folks,

I just got back from a test drive hoping it is just the paddlewheel, but it's not. Seems for now I really need a new GDIG V0.22 and Mastercraft will make my dealer (eventually me) pay for it since I wanted the dealer to ad a 2012 BIG touchscreen to my new 2012 boat after it was built. But even when we remove the added touchscreen the cruise is not working, but MC still is not accepting the complaint. :(

I would not get hung up on a GDIG replacement. We have replaced the GDIG, BIG, and Paddlewheel. I thought this fixed the zero off speed control. After 2 weeks same issues again. They unplugged zero off and installed PP. Worked for a week then failed. It seems sonething is corrupting the communication circiut.

I would not be convinced the GDIG replacement will fix the communication issues on the '12's. I don't think meddalion is providing much assistance either.

surfacetension
07-12-2012, 04:46 PM
Wow , who in thier right mind would want all this high tech stuff on thier boat , if it's bad now wait till it's not covered by the factory, But from what I read here the factory seems like it could care less, Just glad I have a plain 07 X2 with gauges

vision
07-12-2012, 04:48 PM
Fine line of where you stop losing sales due to no bling and high $............and where you lose customers due to the bling not working.

I work in construction and I can say the most important job on our sites is our QA guys. It doesn't matter who eff'd up what as long as its caught before rework is required. It costs exponentially more to fix something after the fact so why not put the effort in to do it right the first time? You just never hear of someone getting a perfect boat the first time and thats the really alarming part. If someone from MC is reading I have QA experience, a degree in manufacturing and industrial supervision, and will take a crappy salary with a free 25. You can even have my old x9. Can relocate tomorrow

You have my vote. Well said!

ttu
07-12-2012, 04:51 PM
Wow , who in thier right mind would want all this high tech stuff on thier boat , if it's bad now wait till it's not covered by the factory, But from what I read here the factory seems like it could care less, Just glad I have a plain 07 X2 with gauges

ditto!!!! just give me guages and stargazer and i am good to go.

02ProstarSammyD
07-12-2012, 05:04 PM
You have my vote. Well said!
vision what lake are you on? Don't see any rdu people on here

surfacetension
07-12-2012, 05:13 PM
10 Pages and you mean to tell me that no one from MC looks at the team talk on thier own website?? seems odd at best..... I had some problems with mine but my dealer ( Sterling Marine) was great. I would think that MC would want to respond at least to the original poster. If I was looking at MC and I read this stuff I might head for another boat co.

I'm not a big fan of all the high tech stuff ( I'm 58 years old) I guess I'm just going to keep my little X2 and not ever upgrade to an X Star, at least not a new one

vision
07-12-2012, 05:16 PM
vision what lake are you on? Don't see any rdu people on here

LKG. If you get up to our lake you are always welcome to come out for a pull. Large MC contingency on LKG.

02ProstarSammyD
07-12-2012, 05:20 PM
Yea I'm a falls or hyco guy most of the time. Live about 4 minutes from bartons ramp. Falls is starting to get ALOT of MC's but haven't seen anyone else on here. I saw 4 X9's last week which was just shocking

10 Pages and you mean to tell me that no one from MC looks at the team talk on thier own website?? seems odd at best..... I had some problems with mine but my dealer ( Sterling Marine) was great. I would think that MC would want to respond at least to the original poster. If I was looking at MC and I read this stuff I might head for another boat co.

Precisely. QA guy must be the social media guy too jk.

Red 08 Xstar
07-12-2012, 06:49 PM
Really? You want to blame the factory for that when the boat probably needed to have the hoses put on the raw water & circulating pumps, connected at the rear, the hull plug(s) installed and all kinds of other stuff before it goes in the water? Do you think they show up at the dealership with, or without, a battery? What other misconceptions are you venting about?

You think these come in a satin-lined box, don't you? It's not jewelry and it's not a car- it's a boat and they need to be set up FOR THE CUSTOMER, BY THE DEALER.

Not venting, just saying what happened. I still bought a boat didn't I? My dealer must suck if they weren't aware all that stuff needed to be done. My Xstar floated fine when I took it out for the first time. They must of missed the X2.

JimN
07-12-2012, 07:19 PM
Not venting, just saying what happened. I still bought a boat didn't I? My dealer must suck if they weren't aware all that stuff needed to be done. My Xstar floated fine when I took it out for the first time. They must of missed the X2.

You posted "Talk about bad quality control!!" and QC starts at the factory. The problem, which you didn't seem to want to address, is that the final steps for QC are performed by the dealer. I'm hard on dealers because they're the ones who are making promises that aren't being kept. I don't know of anyone who has bought a boat from the factory, or anyone who works at the factory- all are bought from dealers and that's where the blame lies for missing lights, wrong platforms without a call to the buyer pre-delivery, demo boats almost sinking and anything else that isn't caught before the boat leaves the lot. A missing light could be caused by something as simple as someone taking the lens off to replace teh bulb, being called to do something and replacing the lens because they were too distracted to remember the new bulb. Not excusable, but it can happen. Could have been that one person removed the lens and someone saw it laying there, so they put it back on. I also think the dealers are dropping the ball when it comes to servicing. How many times have we read that someone took their boat in and it took either a lot of additional trips because they didn't get it right the first dew times, or they never found the cause of a problem? Far too many, IMO.

I also think the people who ask for/demand all of these high-tech gadgets on their boats have no idea of what they're asking for. It's hard enough to make this stuff reliable on dry land, yet they want it in a watercraft. We can't help it if CARB and the EPA demand higher fuel efficiency, but we can demand that the dealers make sure their techs can find a bad ECT the first time. I remember one TT'er who came here and I told him what to look for, then he came back to report that it was fixed, even though the dealer couldn't find it in 5 years. That's effin' pathetic! If they had sent their techs to MC or Indmar training, it would have been fixed the first time. This kind of thing poisons peoples' perception of what a company is, and can do. The problem is that it's not necessarily the company who's doing the damage, directly. It's the people they charge with doing the sales & service for their products. The owner of the boat in Germany has had terrible responses from MC Great Britain, yet MCUS is supposed to know what's happening at all times. They can't do much if MCGB is being a road block for the information. I hope the owner of the boat in Germany has contacted MC in Tennessee and he gets something better than what MCGB is troweling out.

Customer Service is hard even when things go right. When things go bad, it's a freaking nightmare.

Lucky26
07-12-2012, 07:51 PM
JimN,

I hear what you are saying and mostly agree. As a owner of a 12 boat I am more than mostly satisfied with the boat. Having said that, I am not getting any help from my dealer and not getting back any info from MC about the minor software issues. I am willing to be patient about all this, but eventually I want to hear about these issues and how to fix them from MC. I think if MC is concerned about the issues we are having with the new boats, they would have a MC rep at the dealers now and then to discuss the problems with new owners.
If they are already doing this then I would greatly like to discuss these small issues and how to resolve them. Just not getting any info from my dealer or MC

JohnE
07-12-2012, 08:27 PM
JimN,

I hear what you are saying and mostly agree. As a owner of a 12 boat I am more than mostly satisfied with the boat. Having said that, I am not getting any help from my dealer and not getting back any info from MC about the minor software issues. I am willing to be patient about all this, but eventually I want to hear about these issues and how to fix them from MC. I think if MC is concerned about the issues we are having with the new boats, they would have a MC rep at the dealers now and then to discuss the problems with new owners.
If they are already doing this then I would greatly like to discuss these small issues and how to resolve them. Just not getting any info from my dealer or MC

If I were the dealer and you were my customer, I would be jumping up and down screaming at the factory to fix this problem. Your statement sums it all up. "I am not getting any help from my dealer." It starts and stops at the dealership. At least it should

Lucky26
07-12-2012, 09:57 PM
I just got an email from MC. Things are moving in the right direction

Red 08 Xstar
07-13-2012, 01:25 AM
You posted "Talk about bad quality control!!" and QC starts at the factory.

I don't know, call me crazy. Just seems strange to me that the factory would deliver a $70,000 boat that doesn't float.

thatsmrmastercraft
07-13-2012, 01:27 AM
I just got an email from MC. Things are moving in the right direction

Good to hear.

Heelgrad
07-13-2012, 01:43 AM
LKG. If you get up to our lake you are always welcome to come out for a pull. Large MC contingency on LKG.

I grew up in Raleigh and spent my summers and weekends on Lake Gaston. Parents had a house on the water in Hubquarter Creek. Loved that lake. Brings back lots of great memories of my childhood and teen years. Always seemed to be a bunch of MCs on the lake back then but my old man would never spring for one. Said they were too 'expensive', hah!! The main reason I own an MC today is the memories I had skiing behind my buddy's Prostars back in the day. Where are you all on the lake?

AZX9
07-13-2012, 02:40 AM
My 2010 Malibu had software issues as well. The oil filter was left loose and dumped oil all in the bilge to the point of running the engine really low on oil. Dash gauges where held on by posts that twice broke off and had to be replaced from vibrations. The brain to the Maliview had to get replaced. I agree with all that this should not be happening with new boats but my issues were handled quickly by my dealer and Malibu. The dealer never had to wait on Malibu to get back with them or get jammed up with no information. I'm glad my 2003 X9 just has rocker switches. It's either on or off. I always buy new cars, boats or what ever. Hardly ever do I buy used. I do it because I want every thing working and no worries. If something should go wrong I want a warranty that stands behind the product. I just don't think this is the case with boats any longer. I guess I don't have to worry about it anymore because I just can't afford a new boat any longer. Well I guess I can still afford a new Bayliner, and from the sound of it, I'm sure it's just as reliable.

bjames
07-13-2012, 11:42 AM
I don't know, call me crazy. Just seems strange to me that the factory would deliver a $70,000 boat that doesn't float.

It is strange.. There is also a difference between quality and negligence. Im sure there was nothing wrong with the boat when it left the factory, but during transportationm, things loosen, get jarred around. That is why it is so important for a dealer to properly PDI it BEFORE it goes out on the water for a lake test. In this case I would blame the dealer.

JimN
07-13-2012, 11:49 AM
It is strange.. There is also a difference between quality and negligence. Im sure there was nothing wrong with the boat when it left the factory, but during transportationm, things loosen, get jarred around. That is why it is so important for a dealer to properly PDI it BEFORE it goes out on the water for a lake test. In this case I would blame the dealer.

They aren't shipped with the hoses connected, or the hull plug(s) in place. That way, if boats are in a heavy rain storm and they can't be taken indoors, they won't fill with water. They don't store boats with batteries in them, at the factory.

It's not just a PDI, it has to do with initial setup. Some dealers have standard practices and some may not. If a boat was jarred badly enough to damage it, I have to think it would be visible when the wrap was removed. Also, if a boat shows up at a dealership with visible damage, MC would get a call as soon as this was discovered. Hoses and plugs not being in place are up to the people who do the prep and how this is overseen is up to the dealer- if it's not organized well, the dealer can't be expected to service their customers the way they should. Hopefully, this was a one-time thing.

X45fun
07-14-2012, 12:00 PM
My turn
I bought a 2010 X45 in 2011. It currently has 50 hours.

1. Boat leaked when i got it. Drove it 5 hours to our lake house, put it in the water for the first time and the pump ran every 30 minutes. Drove it back 5 hours to the dealer they had it 2 weeks and said that it was the rudder. Picked it up, drove it 5 hours back to lake put it back in the water and it still leaked. Drove it back to dealer (5 hours) they found that the zirk grease fitting in the rudder was not put back in. Drove it 5 hours back to lake put it in the water and it still leaked. Got pi(**d) and put it in the water and removed side locker covers so I could find the leak. I could immediately see a 3 inch stream of water spraying from the port ballast tank pump. If the dealer would have put it in the water and just looked they would have seen it and saved me 10 hours of driving (I should have looked myself but figured it was a brand new boat and never imagined it was a cracked hose. FYI the dealer told me that they "do not need to put it in the water to find the leak" and that they would fill the inside of the boat with water and look for the leak on the outside. Obviously this did not work on a hose that needed to be pressurized from the outside to spray the water on the inside. I cut the hose shorter on my own and leak gone.

2. Last week (one month after 1 year) my swim step rubber cracked and lifted (not covered by warranty as it is one month past 1 year (cost $220 to replace). Boat always covered.

3. My computer stops booting at random times and I cant start the boat. have to sit there and try until the boat starts. Get grey screen and nothing happens when I turn the key.

4. Seat threads broken where the three panels meet on two of my seats.

5. Over 6 gel cracks in the first 50 hours. Three on hull (one 10 inches long), one around the vents on engine cover, one behind drivers seat base,

My problem now is that I do not trust my dealer enough to drive it back 5 hours and have them try to find the intermittent boot up problem. I can see that if it takes three trips for an obvious leak (that they never found) the computer will be a 5 trip ordeal until the boat never starts and I have to be towed.

I am also disappointed that my $90K boat has had these problems.

I love the boat, love the ride, love the wake but really, these kinds of problems should just not happen. My biggest problem is that I only put 50 hours on it in the first year so the gel, swim step overlay and one of the two seat thread problems (that would have showed up sooner if I put more hours on it) are not covered (one year on these). With all these problems in 50 hours how will the boat look in 200 hours?

X45fun
07-14-2012, 12:16 PM
To clarify the first 4 gel coat cracks were fixed under warranty. it was the next trip that I found two more and the swim step problem (those are the cracks that are not covered as it was one month after one year that I found them). when I bring it in for the computer I will try to get them to cover the new cracks but driving the boat 5 hours home, then another 1.5 hours to the dealer (again and again) does not sit well. Dealer already told me the swim step overlay crack is not covered because it is over 1 year.

kskonn
07-15-2012, 02:36 AM
My 2011 X2 was flawless, Texas ski ranch found a number of issues that I never knew about until they told me later. Point is 279 hours in and not one problem. I do believe a good dealer makes all the difference in the world. I also know that they have a very rigid procedure for new boat assembly, systems testing, on land running test and final water test. There have been 7 new mastercrafts on my lake from TSR this summer, I have talked to 4 of the owners and they have had no problems. The dealership can make a good boat bad, a bad boat good or a good boat great. I suppose I lucked out having TSR 15 min away from my house.

Stefan
07-26-2012, 03:32 AM
hey folks,

I just wanted to let you know that things are starting to work on my boat...basically after reading the 2012 Instrumentation manual and thus understanding the system and doing a lot of trial and error myself. Not much help from the dealer and/or Mastercraft here.

after trying different things for a while i disconnected the ZeroOff Antenna (which gives you Perfect Pass, not the worst thing ;) ) my cruise ist working the way it should, but my speedo still wasn't doing it's job.
After trying around some more I did a roll calibration and for some reason my speedo started showing the right values the next time i was on the water. :D:D:D So I also did a pitch calibration the next time around. So hopefully when Mastercraft and my dealer get me a new speedo, with up to date (and updateable) firmware, communication with the ZeroOff sensor will finally work out too...

Sreffett1
07-26-2012, 11:54 AM
Hey Guys,
I am new to this forum and have a new x15 that i ordered last fall at the end of the season. Traded in my 2002 Ski Natique. I really liked that boat and never really had any issues. I owned it for 8 years and was very happybut wanted a larger boat. My local marina is now a Mastercraft dealer and i have been hearing how great they are. Well, at this point i wish I could get my old boat back.
I have been reading through here and I see that the problems are not just my boat. We have a 2012 x15 with the 5.7 illmor. There has been issues since the first time i seen it. The dealer has been great and they are dealing with it as quickly as they can.
The first walk around of the boat found 3 cracks in the gel coat on the bow of the boat just under the rub rail. Upon further inspection both sides of the boat had scratches along the whole sides and the decals were both damaged. then we found that main Mastercraft logo in the top of the rear seat was off center by about 1 inch(This has not been repaired yet). Once w got over the shock and decided to have the dealer repair the issues we thought that it would be good from there and hope to enjoy the rest of the summer.
that was just the beginning. With only 2.7 hours on the boat we had a heater hose cap blow off and fill the engine compartment full of water and over heat the engine. Not to mention the water that was ingested through the engine with the water spraying on the spark arrestor. Made it back to the dock and loaded back on the trailer. Rerturned to the dealer and they fixed the problem and test drove the boat and assured mee everything was fine. It was for about 6 more hours and then it gets really worse.
The service engine light came on and it over heated, I stopped and checked the strainer and it was clean. put it back together and started it and temp came down, seamed to be running fine. Started driving across the lake and the next thing you know it started knocking and it stalled. It did start back up and we made it back to the trailer.
Back to the dealer again. The impeller on the circulation pump broke and was knocking. They showed me a couple other damaged pumps and said it has been a problem. They replaced the pump and took it for a test drive it was not running good. It seemed to be missing and running rough. They checked the spark plugs and they looked fine. Performed compression test and the #2 cylinder has no compression. Removed the cylinder head and found #2 exhaust valve is bent.
Now they are going to put a complete engine in it. The boat has 9.7 hours!!!! Needless to say I am very frustrated and wish I had my old boat back. Not sure what to really do at this point. Wish I could just get a different boat.

JimN
07-26-2012, 12:12 PM
Hey Guys,
I am new to this forum and have a new x15 that i ordered last fall at the end of the season. Traded in my 2002 Ski Natique. I really liked that boat and never really had any issues. I owned it for 8 years and was very happybut wanted a larger boat. My local marina is now a Mastercraft dealer and i have been hearing how great they are. Well, at this point i wish I could get my old boat back.
I have been reading through here and I see that the problems are not just my boat. We have a 2012 x15 with the 5.7 illmor. There has been issues since the first time i seen it. The dealer has been great and they are dealing with it as quickly as they can.
The first walk around of the boat found 3 cracks in the gel coat on the bow of the boat just under the rub rail. Upon further inspection both sides of the boat had scratches along the whole sides and the decals were both damaged. then we found that main Mastercraft logo in the top of the rear seat was off center by about 1 inch(This has not been repaired yet). Once w got over the shock and decided to have the dealer repair the issues we thought that it would be good from there and hope to enjoy the rest of the summer.
that was just the beginning. With only 2.7 hours on the boat we had a heater hose cap blow off and fill the engine compartment full of water and over heat the engine. Not to mention the water that was ingested through the engine with the water spraying on the spark arrestor. Made it back to the dock and loaded back on the trailer. Rerturned to the dealer and they fixed the problem and test drove the boat and assured mee everything was fine. It was for about 6 more hours and then it gets really worse.
The service engine light came on and it over heated, I stopped and checked the strainer and it was clean. put it back together and started it and temp came down, seamed to be running fine. Started driving across the lake and the next thing you know it started knocking and it stalled. It did start back up and we made it back to the trailer.
Back to the dealer again. The impeller on the circulation pump broke and was knocking. They showed me a couple other damaged pumps and said it has been a problem. They replaced the pump and took it for a test drive it was not running good. It seemed to be missing and running rough. They checked the spark plugs and they looked fine. Performed compression test and the #2 cylinder has no compression. Removed the cylinder head and found #2 exhaust valve is bent.
Now they are going to put a complete engine in it. The boat has 9.7 hours!!!! Needless to say I am very frustrated and wish I had my old boat back. Not sure what to really do at this point. Wish I could just get a different boat.

I would ask the dealer how the shrink wrap was removed- if someone used a knife, it could damage the gelcoat and decals. The one that's not centered should have been caught before it left the factory AND before you took possession.

Circulation pump impeller went bad? I haven't seen that one. Does it look like a regular GM part?

Sreffett1
07-26-2012, 08:02 PM
Yes, it is a gm part. I have seen another post on here about overheating and has a picture of the broken impeller.

bcd
07-26-2012, 08:53 PM
I had the same issue with the heater cap. Mine blew on July 1st. I found it after I was cruising back in and the boat lost power and couldn't stay on plane. I got towed in and had water in my engine oil. I took it to the dealer on July 2nd. They had it for 11 days. They did a compression check, changed the oil twice, and replaced the rubber cap with a metal one.

I also learned that this failure wasn't new, and they had changed the heater kit to the metal plug, but didn't get my kit updated (kit was ordered early June and installed June 18th).

Dealer told me that they checked the boat out and everything was ok, except for my trailer brakes (different issue, but they were still waiting on a replacement hose). They also said they ran the boat in the shop for 2 hours. I agreed to pick up the boat and they would send me the brake hose when it came in. I picked the boat up July 18th, Friday night. Saturday morning, I went to put the boat in the water, and my battery was dead. The disconnect was off when I got to the water, so there couldn't have been something draining the battery (other than bilge). I switched the battery to combined and started the boat. I checked voltage and it was only 12.8V with the engine running. I loaded the boat on the trailer and hauled it 100 miles back to the dealer that morning, and told them I needed a new alternator.

On Tuesday I called the dealer and they told me that they charged the battery and everything was working fine. They also implied that there was a lot aftermarket wiring in the boat (my ballast timer fix) and that was probably what drained the battery. I called them back Thursday and they said they lake tested the boat and got 12.8V. They called Ilmor and were told to replace the alternator. I finally got my boat back on July 20th.

So now I have a new boat with water in the engine oil and have missed most of July. I've had multiple phone calls with Ilmor, and they keep saying that my engine is fine. They agreed to give me an extra year on my warranty, but when I ask about what happens if I have problems after that, all they say is they'll stand behind their product. I couldn't get anything in writing saying that.

So if my alternator had enough hot water sprayed on it to fail, how long until my started goes out? I asked to get a new starter installed, and was told that my current starter is fine.

Skipper
07-27-2012, 08:56 PM
I have never purchased a new boat. This thread has several owners of new boats that have quality issues. That should be sending up red flags to the folks at MC who undoubtably monitor the content of this site. Quality can be measured at many stages in the processes from the time a customer orders a boat until it is delivered. When there are so many failures in quality that is an indication that something needs to be done to increase quality control standards. I would say the same thing regardless of which boat company was having similar issues. It is only a matter of time until these problems begin to affect the reputation of the brand.

JohnE
07-27-2012, 09:14 PM
Why aren't dealers taking care of these problems right away? I'll grant that some need factory assistance, but not most of them.

vision
07-27-2012, 11:12 PM
I grew up in Raleigh and spent my summers and weekends on Lake Gaston. Parents had a house on the water in Hubquarter Creek. Loved that lake. Brings back lots of great memories of my childhood and teen years. Always seemed to be a bunch of MCs on the lake back then but my old man would never spring for one. Said they were too 'expensive', hah!! The main reason I own an MC today is the memories I had skiing behind my buddy's Prostars back in the day. Where are you all on the lake?

Down across from poplar creek. Just a few miles from hubquarter.

bcd
07-28-2012, 01:07 AM
I took the boat out tonight. Part of the heater improvement kit they installed was a higher cracking thermostat. The last time I had the boat out, the engine overheat alarm went off as I was idling waiting for the trailer. I called Ilmor, and they said that my new thermostat cracks at 190, and the alarm goes off at 207. The new thermostat runs close to the standard alarm setting, but the setting can be raised.

I started the boat tonight, and right away the service engine alarm went off. I called the dealer, and they said the code won't go away until I bring the boat in and have them clear the codes. They said it's not a big deal, and I can bring the boat in for them to clear the codes and update software to the new overheat temp setting.

How is it not a big deal that I have to haul my boat 100 miles for the 5th time this year, not to mention that the last two times they supposedly have checked the boat and made sure everything was working properly, only for me to find more issues? Also, my overheat alarm went off again tonight when I was idling out of a no wake zone.

mzimme
07-28-2012, 01:13 AM
I'd probably explain to them that they can bring their little code eraser out to your neck of the woods rather than driving the 100 miles. Are these MC specific code readers, or is it a generic OBD style reader?

AZX45OD
07-28-2012, 01:56 AM
Does anyone know if there someone at MC we can contact directly with issues that are not being dealt with? Or, how do we get in contact with a regional supervisor who oversees the dealers if necessary?

Lucky26
07-28-2012, 04:04 AM
When I had issues I contacted Bill Gattis at Mastercraft, He is who you get when you ask for tech services or customer service. (423) 884-2221. He simply told me to take my boat to the dealer and we would go from there.