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mzimme
06-26-2012, 08:49 AM
So I tried slalom skiing for my very first time over the weekend. The first time I hooked the rope to my fly high since I had too many people in my boat to use the normal pylon. I was able to get pulled up the first time I'd ever tried skiing on 1, rode around for a bit to try to get comfortable and get used the feeling of 1 ski. The water was pretty rough so I didn't venture much outside of the wakes, and decided I'd come back to skiing later in the day when the boat traffic died down and I could get some nice water. Well, I dropped a couple people off to go home, and was able to try from the lower tow point on the pylon. I tried 3-4 times and couldn't pop up. I felt myself come out of the water, but then just felt like I was getting dragged in the water and not popping up.

Nobody else on the boat is a slalom person, so I was just doing this with no instruction. Can someone give some pointers as to body position and that sort of thing on a deep water slalom start? I'm also on a crappy little combo ski, so I'm sure that's not helping, but I want to make sure I enjoy slalom before I drop some coin on a decent ski.

sp00ky
06-26-2012, 08:58 AM
Well a high dollar ski is going to be much harder to get up on than your combo ski as it will be much narrower especially at the tail. If you can get up with the tower just keep trying at the pylon and you should be fine.

Stay in a ball arms straight and hold on. You will be dragged a bit. I duck my chin and lean back and try to get my ski level as soon as I can.

kjohnson
06-26-2012, 08:59 AM
So I tried slalom skiing for my very first time over the weekend. The first time I hooked the rope to my fly high since I had too many people in my boat to use the normal pylon. I was able to get pulled up the first time I'd ever tried skiing on 1, rode around for a bit to try to get comfortable and get used the feeling of 1 ski. The water was pretty rough so I didn't venture much outside of the wakes, and decided I'd come back to skiing later in the day when the boat traffic died down and I could get some nice water. Well, I dropped a couple people off to go home, and was able to try from the lower tow point on the pylon. I tried 3-4 times and couldn't pop up. I felt myself come out of the water, but then just felt like I was getting dragged in the water and not popping up.

Nobody else on the boat is a slalom person, so I was just doing this with no instruction. Can someone give some pointers as to body position and that sort of thing on a deep water slalom start? I'm also on a crappy little combo ski, so I'm sure that's not helping, but I want to make sure I enjoy slalom before I drop some coin on a decent ski.

Keep your front knee close to your chest, arch your back, and keep your arms slightly bent. When the boat starts to pull, put some pressure on your back foot and let the boat pull you out of the water. Don't try to stand up too soon - you will know when to stand up. Oh yeah, and hang on tight.

Some people drag their trailing foot in the water until they stand up, but to me it is a lot easier to get up with both feet in the bindings.

MattsCraft
06-26-2012, 10:34 AM
Keep your front knee close to your chest, arch your back, and keep your arms slightly bent. When the boat starts to pull, put some pressure on your back foot and let the boat pull you out of the water. Don't try to stand up too soon - you will know when to stand up. Oh yeah, and hang on tight.

Some people drag their trailing foot in the water until they stand up, but to me it is a lot easier to get up with both feet in the bindings.

I am with K on this one, had many, many people try to teach me with a ton of different tricks such as the drag one leg etc. I am right foot back and have dual bindings so both feet in for me.

What works for me and the driver is a big part of the process here... I put the rope left of the ski and have it just slightly leaned against the rope, once the rope is tight have the driver give you about a 2 second drag at idle, apply throttle smooth and steady to full in about a one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand interval. As soon as he nails the throttle, try leaning your head back to the sky keep your arms pulling in tight and push like heck with your back foot. Leaning your head back keeps the water wave into your chest, pushing with the back foot forces the ski to pop up onto the water.

Also, I use an over under hand on the handle, with about an 11-5 position. A good firm handle for me works best, tried my buddies soft wakeboard handle once, could not get up to save my life, handle kept slipping right out of my hands.

There are tons of Op's here, keep working with it and above all, relax and try to have fun.

Cheers

Jorski
06-26-2012, 10:47 AM
Two key thoughts:

One: get enough ski out of the water....front foot toes near the surface.

Two: While waiting for the pull you need to be in your ball -knees to chest, straight arms outside of your legs- you need to be leaning back enough so that when the pull hits you end up in the right position. If you are too verticle, the intial pull will get you too far forward.


Finally, nothing wrong with using the high attachment point a bunch of times to refine your technique.

JohnE
06-26-2012, 11:11 AM
I agree, keep the high attachment until you are more comfortable. And the rest of the advice is right on. I learned to get up by dragging the trailing leg. Worked well and I could pop right out, but it is drastically different than both feet in. I've long since switched to double boots.

mzimme
06-26-2012, 11:34 AM
Thanks guys, I think I was trying to lean forward rather than backwards/arching my back when i was coming out of the water. I'll give it a shot again here next time out and hopefully get it down.

fstaslp
06-26-2012, 11:44 AM
really shove that back foot into the boat if you are underpowered.

madcityskier
06-26-2012, 11:52 AM
really shove that back foot into the boat if you are underpowered.

It's a MasterCraft, he can't be underpowered. Yet another stay down till the ski is on top of the water. Standing up too early is the biggest killer of new slalom skiers. If the driver takes off with a normal pull it's a matter of hanging on. If they pull the handle from your hands, have them slow down, or quit pulling against the boat. If you're sitting on your back ankle with your knee in your chest it should be pretty easy. I gave up the double wraps to get my a$$ out behind our old i/o so that I could position for less drag. Much easier on my body and I wont be going back. in that instance front knee in your chest, other leg dragging beside your ski with a little pressure on it and you'll be up in no time. Trick is gettting your foot on the ski and comfortable. Worry about getting it in the strap when you're stable. Soon you'll hit the strap like nothing as you're popping up.

fstaslp
06-26-2012, 11:58 AM
well I had to remember how to get up with "a less than a mastercraft" last weekend. It was a 1987 Cris Craft with a 3.0 in it.

east tx skier
06-26-2012, 12:34 PM
(1) Arms straight, (2) knees bent, (3) ski tip out of the water, (4) let the boat pull you up.

If you don't get up, try again and figure out which of these things you weren't doing the last time.

As a kid learning to slalom, it took a very patient person with a lot of boat gas and beer and several days of trying to get me out of the water. He kept repeating these four things over and over (it also took a two handled rope and an old, flat-bottom, wooden ski with a big metal fin). Today, it is very rare that I don't get up on a deep water start.

Side notes: (a) If I have a slow boat or the driver under-throttles a bit, about half way through the pull up, I'll stomp down on that back foot to pop the ski tip up and accelerate the process a bit. But if you are struggling, just revisit the four part check list above. (b) if you're struggling, keep your eyes up and watch the tip of the ski. Eyes down, and you'll be hunched over.

Jorski
06-26-2012, 01:30 PM
Here is a video of a very efficient Jason McClintock doing it right...at the very beginning of the video.

I find that when learning, beginners need to lean back a little more...but you get a good idea of how simple it can be:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwqOLSvU13Q

mikeg205
06-26-2012, 02:00 PM
relax, crunch your gut and look up at the tree line. what works for me is to make sure the tip is out of the water (duh right?) and the tail of the ski is under my boat. Tell driver to start idling so you can stabilize ski and then ease into pulling you out... don't try to stand up too soon. if you push against the ski too soon it will cause too much drag as opposed to getting on plane.

While learning - hole-shot starts will most likely end up your shoulders rolling over your hips causing a failed start.

I took a lesson and was able to get up on 3rd try. With the cheater rope I can get wakeboarders up on 1st or second try.

and get one of these to train yourself... I retired mine...

http://hosports.com/accurate_ski_ropes/handles/elite_deep_v_handle

purchase at...

http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Gladiator-Slalom-Trainer-Ski-Rope&i=44426&str=slalom+train+rope&merchID=4005

millpondkid
07-09-2012, 01:35 PM
I haven't attempted a deepwater start in about five years. So after several attempts with my slalom I broke my ego down and bought the slalom trainer, first attempt I got up, skied for a while then relaxed then went again and got up. The biggest problem I'm having is I'm taking on a lot of water as I'm being pulled. If I remember right when I was younger and skied alot I never had to fight the water rushing in on me I was always able to see my ski tip. Any advice?????? I'm sking behind an 84 ss powerslot. Is my driver not pulling hard enough or is it my lack of skill???? Maybe I'm leaning to far ahead at the hips??? My nose is all plugged up..

TxsRiverRat
07-09-2012, 01:43 PM
The #1 thing you have to remember when trying a deep water start:

NEVER LET GO....

HRC
07-09-2012, 04:09 PM
I haven't attempted a deepwater start in about five years. So after several attempts with my slalom I broke my ego down and bought the slalom trainer, first attempt I got up, skied for a while then relaxed then went again and got up. The biggest problem I'm having is I'm taking on a lot of water as I'm being pulled. If I remember right when I was younger and skied alot I never had to fight the water rushing in on me I was always able to see my ski tip. Any advice?????? I'm sking behind an 84 ss powerslot. Is my driver not pulling hard enough or is it my lack of skill???? Maybe I'm leaning to far ahead at the hips??? My nose is all plugged up..

Could be speed or ski size. I'm 6'4" 235lbs and have to be pulled at least 34 mph or I get a lot of spray in my face.

mikeg205
07-09-2012, 04:23 PM
At your height and weight...take a deep breath...your gonna displace some water. I dropped to 185 from 220...and my deep water starts are much easier...6'0 and 185 now. You should have a 71" ski... if your're running shorter, take a deep breath...put the tail of the ski under but look up...let the ski do the work...don't try to stand up until the ski is on plane...if you push on the ski before then it will plane slower... I get up in .5 sec's about...still get a face full of water... :)

no training rope - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd919NoBhsA

with training rope http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1635DchZGO4 - water 49 degrees by the way...lol

I ski a 69" Comp Free Free Ride and Triumph

east tx skier
07-09-2012, 04:38 PM
The #1 thing you have to remember when trying a deep water start:

NEVER LET GO....

As the boat driver, I'm pretty hesitant to give this advice to someone I'm teaching. I know there are some who give up far too quickly. But the ones that refuse to let go, but eventually lose their grip, are the ones that pop handles at the back of my head. I have enough trouble with experienced skiers popping handles.

HRC
07-09-2012, 05:29 PM
Could be speed or ski size. I'm 6'4" 235lbs and have to be pulled at least 34 mph or I get a lot of spray in my face.

Nevermind. Quoted wrong post.

HRC
07-09-2012, 05:33 PM
At your height and weight...take a deep breath...your gonna displace some water. I dropped to 185 from 220...and my deep water starts are much easier...6'0 and 185 now. You should have a 71" ski... if your're running shorter, take a deep breath...put the tail of the ski under but look up...let the ski do the work...don't try to stand up until the ski is on plane...if you push on the ski before then it will plane slower... I get up in .5 sec's about...still get a face full of water... :)

no training rope - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd919NoBhsA

with training rope http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1635DchZGO4 - water 49 degrees by the way...lol

I ski a 69" Comp Free Free Ride and Triumph

You may have me confused with the OP. I have no problem coming up on 1 ski. I just have to remind my wife to go faster when I forget to engage the Perfect Pass. BTW, I'm riding a 69" O'Brien that I bought a long time ago when I wasn't this heavy.

mikeg205
07-09-2012, 06:24 PM
You may have me confused with the OP. I have no problem coming up on 1 ski. I just have to remind my wife to go faster when I forget to engage the Perfect Pass. BTW, I'm riding a 69" O'Brien that I bought a long time ago when I wasn't this heavy.

yup yup yup...I did... :o

atlfootr
07-18-2012, 06:06 PM
When I saw the title of this thread, I was pumped!
I thought GREAT another barefoot skier, then I read on ... call me when your ready to lose the stick.

Ryan
07-18-2012, 06:57 PM
So, Mzimme, did any of the tips work?

This is an interesting range of tips. When I have a new skier I tell them to mentally put their weight on the front of the ski - and they pop up.

I disagree with the dig in the back foot approach, creates more drag and more work. I think the opposite is true and lets the ski climb up to plane faster.

east tx skier
07-18-2012, 10:39 PM
So, Mzimme, did any of the tips work?

This is an interesting range of tips. When I have a new skier I tell them to mentally put their weight on the front of the ski - and they pop up.

I disagree with the dig in the back foot approach, creates more drag and more work. I think the opposite is true and lets the ski climb up to plane faster.

I think this maneuver works well for someone who knows how to ski. If I have a boat driver that's dragging me a bit more than I like out of the hole, I'll stomp down on that back foot to get the ski to plane more quickly. But for someone learning, I'd skip this approach.

Ryan
07-18-2012, 11:32 PM
I think this maneuver works well for someone who knows how to ski. If I have a boat driver that's dragging me a bit more than I like out of the hole, I'll stomp down on that back foot to get the ski to plane more quickly. But for someone learning, I'd skip this approach.

Agreed. Especially when I don't want to get my balding head wet ;)

As I re-read my post, it reminded me of another way to focus weight on the front of the ski. I want to give this a shot before I get too old. Maybe when I'm at Norris TN for a week in Aug. It's been 7 years+ since I used a ski with a toe plate. I don't know if I could do it with my double boots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0xF2HfzOic

jhall0711
07-19-2012, 11:32 AM
I think this maneuver works well for someone who knows how to ski. If I have a boat driver that's dragging me a bit more than I like out of the hole, I'll stomp down on that back foot to get the ski to plane more quickly. But for someone learning, I'd skip this approach.

Had a guy out with us Memorial Wknd who had not slalomed in 20 some years. We took all the wives and children back the dock and asked my buddy if he wanted to run out for one last evening slalom run. We grabbed some beers and before you know it all the guys ended up back on the boat. One thing led to another and this guy is like "oh I can still do it."

He hopped in the water; took three pulls... was close everytime. When we circled back he was groaning. Said he was almost up and did Eastie's pump the leg trick and felt a tear. After we pulled him out of the water (took three of us) he almost passed out. Went to the hospital next day and had torn his hamstring. Leg all black and blue...

Moral of story- I also would not suggest this unless you know what your doin....:D

tockit
07-19-2012, 11:44 AM
(1) Arms straightI've always been told to keep your arms slightly bent. Have I been told incorrectly (highly possible)?

davidstan
07-19-2012, 12:17 PM
I've always been told to keep your arms slightly bent. Have I been told incorrectly (highly possible)?
Trust me you have been told wrong. Arms straight will take force off your smaller muscles and tendons of the forearms and put more on the larger muscles of the upper body. My personal experience at end of this thread. http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=48893

petermegan
07-19-2012, 06:08 PM
[QUOTE=Ryan;859669]So, Mzimme, did any of the tips work?

This is an interesting range of tips. When I have a new skier I tell them to mentally put their weight on the front of the ski - and they pop up.

I disagree with the dig in the back foot approach, creates more drag and more work. I think the opposite is true and lets the ski climb up to plane faster.[/QUOTE

I agree with this, If you dig your back foot in you will have to hang on a lot harder, let the boat do the work. East TX has the idea.

east tx skier
07-19-2012, 09:17 PM
I've always been told to keep your arms slightly bent. Have I been told incorrectly (highly possible)?

In a word, yes. :)

east tx skier
07-19-2012, 09:19 PM
Had a guy out with us Memorial Wknd who had not slalomed in 20 some years. We took all the wives and children back the dock and asked my buddy if he wanted to run out for one last evening slalom run. We grabbed some beers and before you know it all the guys ended up back on the boat. One thing led to another and this guy is like "oh I can still do it."

He hopped in the water; took three pulls... was close everytime. When we circled back he was groaning. Said he was almost up and did Eastie's pump the leg trick and felt a tear. After we pulled him out of the water (took three of us) he almost passed out. Went to the hospital next day and had torn his hamstring. Leg all black and blue...

Moral of story- I also would not suggest this unless you know what your doin....:D

Geez, that's awful. I rarely end up doing it, unless I'm just getting dragged and it's enough already. Hope he heals quickly.

SugarLake
07-26-2012, 02:56 PM
Had a guy out with us Memorial Wknd who had not slalomed in 20 some years. We took all the wives and children back the dock and asked my buddy if he wanted to run out for one last evening slalom run. We grabbed some beers and before you know it all the guys ended up back on the boat. One thing led to another and this guy is like "oh I can still do it."

He hopped in the water; took three pulls... was close everytime. When we circled back he was groaning. Said he was almost up and did Eastie's pump the leg trick and felt a tear. After we pulled him out of the water (took three of us) he almost passed out. Went to the hospital next day and had torn his hamstring. Leg all black and blue...

Moral of story- I also would not suggest this unless you know what your doin....:D

I had a similiar experience a few years ago. Late 40's and I had probably only skied a half dozen times since college, skied all the time before that. Then we bought a cabin and pulled my wife's 88 Prostar out of 10 years storage. I was 6' 1"" 195 lbs and tried to get up on a crappy 67" combo ski, way too small. Didn't pull the hammy too bad though and by the end of the summer I was back on a 69" HO Charger and getting up just fine. I did use the slalom "training" rope for a while and it definitely helps. Last winter I lost 15 lbs and now it's even easier. 49 and now I ski all the time!

For me I make sure I stay in the ball until I'm up on the water. At first I was trying to stand up too soon.

Any tips for kids? I have a 6 and 8 year old that are itching to slalom. They have done it off the boom but as of yet not off the rope. We tried both deep water start and dropping but no luck yet. They did stay up for a little while after dropping but never got the foot in the strap for any length of time.

bturner2
07-27-2012, 08:26 AM
Did the hamstring thing 3 years ago (no tear but a real bad pull, all purple, black and blue). Did it in late August trying to pull through a bad start and it ended my season. Worked out all winter and came back pretty strong but doubt the hamstring will ever be the same. It now tends to knot up very easily. I now stretch for at least 15 minutes (which I should have been doing all along) and if I start to get bent out of shape during a start I no longer try to pull my way through it. I just take the second pull of shame on get on with life.

At 56 I too have focused on losing weight and conditioning to extend my slalom capabilities. I pulled off 25 pounds from last year and had my best slalom summer since I quit slalom skiing some 20 years ago. The plan is to drop another 10 - 15 for next season and get back into course skiing but we'll have to see about that one.

On teaching the kids.... We found pulling from the tower really helped the kids get up on one ski and ride longer afterwards. It tends to keep their heads and shoulders up and in better position.

millpondkid
07-27-2012, 01:42 PM
HEY SUGARLAKE, the way I was taught to drop one ski was while I'm on two skis you should be able to lift the ski out of the water and balance on just one. Lift the ski that your going to be dropping just to gain the balance needed, then if you lose balance you still have the ski on to drop back down. Do this several times. Then when you feel comfortable doing that things should be easier. When I was ready to drop the ski i always had the drop ski binding very loose and just lifted my heel til it floats off. As far as deepwater starts follow east texas advice. Practice and practice.

BallBushing
07-29-2012, 03:32 PM
Keep your eyes on the back of the boat, not the ski. Look down, fall down

Skipper
07-29-2012, 04:35 PM
It has been my experience that there is less force pulling against the boat, thus it is easier to get up, when I bend my knees and lean forward keeping just the tip of the ski out of the water during a deep water start. Soon after the boat starts to move, from this position, I can easily stand on the ski and ride it out until the boat settles.

I know this advice is contrary to those who suggest that you must lean back when getting pulled out of the water. Although that technique works it will quickly tire the skier and it is less likely that a skier learning deep water starts will be able to get up.

Each set I usually ski six passes. That means I am getting pulled up on a deep water start six times per set. Multiply that by three sets a day and my public education math skills suggest that I am doing eighteen deep water starts per day of skiing. Therefore, I submit that my advice is backed by experience.

In the end, just do what works best for you.

zsqure
07-29-2012, 05:04 PM
Deep water start, I've done this many times before----or so I thought. First time behind a real ski boat I yelled at the wife to hit it and she did like she always did in the regal with an i/o merc 350 mag. That little MC pulled me out of my ski, no kidding. So, maybe roll into the throttle, troll a little to get balance established. Like everyone else says, knees bent I have my front knee to my chest and sit back on my rear heel. Arms slightly bent. Because of the spray I close my eyes and take a deep breath or else I drink in some fish pee water.
You have to figure out what works for you.

LaRue
07-29-2012, 06:46 PM
it should look something like this...:D

xtnkshun
08-05-2012, 09:08 PM
I learned slalom skiing by dragging my foot, but use double bindings now. It's definitely a lot more pull on your arms with both feet in. Keeping the ski straight up and down is the only thing that seemed to helped me. We used to have a double handled rope and that would help keep the ski from moving all over the place...but, other than that I hated that rope.

Back in the day, my mom used to jump start in about of foot of water and a couple feet of slack rope. WAS AMAZING!! And I never was crazy enough to try it.

mikeg205
08-05-2012, 09:42 PM
Rule #1 make sure you're using a beginner ski and the right size - i.e. HO Comp Free Ride or a something wider. If the ski is too short or too narrow for a beginner it will never happen.

Rule #2 If you're using 2 feet in the boot but the tail of the ski under your butt and make sure the ski is out of the water. Have the driver idle, skier puts pressure on back foot to stabilize ski look up at tree line - driver hits the throttle evenly to pull you up and not rip your arms off. Let the boat compress your body into a ball as the ski planes out - stand up on ski.

Rule #3 Use a training rope...or go to a ski school. Its $30 bucks. on sale now at overtons.
http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Gladiator-Slalom-Trainer-Ski-Rope&i=44426&str=gladiator+ski+rope&merchID=4005

I took lessons at Pine Lake Ski School at age 50...no slaloming for 2 years... I could not get up on one ski for anything before then... Then I learned on my HO comp free ride and became 100% proficient on that ski - got 2 new skis this year a 2010 HO Triumph and a Coefficient x SL - both double booted... Still 100% proficient on the Triumph - Fat Tail and 90% on the Coefficient pin tail.

Using the training rope I was able to teach 3 people to get up on the Comp Free Ride in 1 day. I am not the best skier - but I got some great training which I always share....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1635DchZGO4 - how the rope works...

Getting up on the Coefficient X SL 22 off 34mph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EXA14nIh_M

Now for skiing a course...now that's for others to discuss...I am going to ski school next season for that.