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View Full Version : Does a smaller board = Faster?


HartlandX1
06-21-2012, 09:28 PM
I'm thinking yes-

sp00ky
06-21-2012, 09:45 PM
No it depends on rider size, shape of the board, rocker, stiffness of your boots etc.

sp00ky
06-21-2012, 09:53 PM
Why do you wanna go faster. Good wakeboarding is not about speed it's progressive edge

HartlandX1
06-21-2012, 10:10 PM
Why do you wanna go faster. Good wakeboarding is not about speed it's progressive edge

TeamTalk > General MasterCraft Topics > Watersports > Wakesurfing



:D

sp00ky
06-21-2012, 10:11 PM
TeamTalk > General MasterCraft Topics > Watersports > Wakesurfing



:D

Aha yes.. IDK

kgrove
06-21-2012, 10:18 PM
I'm thinking yes-

Depends what you mean by faster. Generally speaking ands all else equal, a smaller board will turn faster and respond more quickly, but will not have as much straight line speed and will require a larger wave to be responsive. Fin size and shape, rocker, and board shape play into the equation as well if you are comparing two boards of different size but very different design.

V-man
06-22-2012, 01:38 AM
kgrove is absolutely correct. The 'speed' of the board is tied to the amount of 'float' it generates. Which is shaped into the board. For the most part, a larger board should have more speed because it is generating more 'float'. However, this can be negated on a poorly designed board. A well designed wakesurf board will have a good combination of speed and responsiveness in a smaller package.

Iskidaily
06-22-2012, 06:27 AM
Are you in Hartland, WI? Great water to be found there!

coz
06-22-2012, 09:24 AM
Boat speed and a regular short board (ocean surfboard) will get you moving faster. IMO wake surfboards are to thin and sluggish and not buoyant enough. These guys look like they're having fun http://www.alliancewake.com/wake/rainy-wakesurf-day-with-harley-and-steel/

kgrove
06-22-2012, 12:22 PM
Boat speed and a regular short board (ocean surfboard) will get you moving faster. IMO wake surfboards are to thin and sluggish and not buoyant enough. These guys look like they're having fun http://www.alliancewake.com/wake/rainy-wakesurf-day-with-harley-and-steel/

Theoretically wakesurf boards don't need as much flotation as ocean board as the real limiter for ocean surfing is being able to paddle fast enough to catch the wave. Unfortunately I sold my old boards years ago (I had a couple Nectar Simon Anderson "Original 3 Fin Thruster" - probably would be worth something to a collector now), but I've always wondered how they would perform behind my boat.

One of the other differences with ocean boards is they have more rocker than wakesurf boards. I'm no shaper, but I think the reason is the combination of the initial takeoff on a real wave being steep and the rocker helps prevent burying the nose and because power isn't as much an issue on real waves so the board can plow a little more water. With wakesurfing the wake is so tiny (sorry to inform you of this, wakesurfers, but those photos and videos you post of "massive wakes" look pretty pathetic to surfers) you need all the straight line speed you can get. I agree most wakesurf boards I see people using are too short and don't have enough flotation especially for their size and talent levels.

scott023
06-22-2012, 12:48 PM
Depends what you mean by faster. Generally speaking ands all else equal, a smaller board will turn faster and respond more quickly, but will not have as much straight line speed and will require a larger wave to be responsive. Fin size and shape, rocker, and board shape play into the equation as well if you are comparing two boards of different size but very different design.

Perfectly summarized.

HartlandX1
06-22-2012, 02:16 PM
Are you in Hartland, WI? Great water to be found there!
Yep- About 5mins from the Nagawicka launch, 10mins from the Pewaukee launch, and about 15mins from the Pine launch!

coz
06-22-2012, 08:49 PM
Theoretically wakesurf boards don't need as much flotation as ocean board as the real limiter for ocean surfing is being able to paddle fast enough to catch the wave. Unfortunately I sold my old boards years ago (I had a couple Nectar Simon Anderson "Original 3 Fin Thruster" - probably would be worth something to a collector now), but I've always wondered how they would perform behind my boat.

One of the other differences with ocean boards is they have more rocker than wakesurf boards. I'm no shaper, but I think the reason is the combination of the initial takeoff on a real wave being steep and the rocker helps prevent burying the nose and because power isn't as much an issue on real waves so the board can plow a little more water. With wakesurfing the wake is so tiny (sorry to inform you of this, wakesurfers, but those photos and videos you post of "massive wakes" look pretty pathetic to surfers) you need all the straight line speed you can get. I agree most wakesurf boards I see people using are too short and don't have enough flotation especially for their size and talent levels.

Those guys in the vid are using Channel Island surfboards (Al Merrick ocean boards) :D and I agree with the pathetic comment :D growing up at the beach in SoCal and surfing since I was 8, I find wake surfing about as fun as riding in a tube behind the boat, in other words, not for me :D

V-man
06-22-2012, 09:27 PM
I find wake surfing about as fun as riding in a tube behind the boat, in other words, not for me :D

He says-on the forum that was created for those who ARE interested in wakesurfing.

kgrove
06-23-2012, 02:20 AM
He says-on the forum that was created for those who ARE interested in wakesurfing.

I didn't mean anything to be condescending, although I understand the interpretation... pretty sure from the tone Coz didn't either and he just repeated my "pathetic" comment.

Anyone who enjoys wakesurfing should try to translate their wakesurfing to the ocean if they get the chance to go to a good surfing beach. As much fun as wakesurfing can be, imagine a wave two to three times more powerful than the best wave you've ever produced by your boat. Thats a bad day in the ocean (at least as bad a day as you'd ever bother paddling out for).

Here's the difference... I haven't surfed in 25 years, but to this day I remember tiny details (and crashes) from waves that peaked before Arsenio Hall and The Bangles. I can't remember anything about wakesurfing two weeks ago... and I had a lot of fun two weeks ago. It's not meant as a slam on wakesurfing so much as reminiscing about ocean surfing and as "insiders" who have done the "real thing" (which also sounds condescending - like wakesurfing is fake) choosing words to describe one of the clear areas where ocean surfing is superior to wakesurfing.

Let me give wakesurfing some props where ocean surfing can't compare: Ocean surfing is tiring as hell where wakesurfing is relaxing. Ocean surfing is difficult as hell to learn where wakesurfing I am generally able to get beginners up and having fun right away. An amazing wave lasts maybe 5-10 seconds, where wakesurfing I can go till my legs turn to jelly. In the ocean crashes can hurt like hell and make you feel like you were put through the spin cycle in a washing machine. I once nearly got impaled on my fin... sliced my wetsuit from nipple to groin and am lucky I didn't spill my guts out. The worst thing to happen to me wakesurfing so far is dropping an unopened beer (I cried). Wakesurfing I can ride tandem with my youngsters... not super exciting for me, but they think it's awesome (plus it makes them think I'm great, and I need all the help I can get). Maybe most importantly, the closest beach to me is 400 miles away. I can go wakesurfing any time its too choppy or I'm too tired to go wakeboarding (oops.. that was another slam wasn't it?).

coz
06-23-2012, 10:01 AM
I didn't mean anything to be condescending, although I understand the interpretation... pretty sure from the tone Coz didn't either and he just repeated my "pathetic" comment.

Anyone who enjoys wakesurfing should try to translate their wakesurfing to the ocean if they get the chance to go to a good surfing beach. As much fun as wakesurfing can be, imagine a wave two to three times more powerful than the best wave you've ever produced by your boat. Thats a bad day in the ocean (at least as bad a day as you'd ever bother paddling out for).

Here's the difference... I haven't surfed in 25 years, but to this day I remember tiny details (and crashes) from waves that peaked before Arsenio Hall and The Bangles. I can't remember anything about wakesurfing two weeks ago... and I had a lot of fun two weeks ago. It's not meant as a slam on wakesurfing so much as reminiscing about ocean surfing and as "insiders" who have done the "real thing" (which also sounds condescending - like wakesurfing is fake) choosing words to describe one of the clear areas where ocean surfing is superior to wakesurfing.

Let me give wakesurfing some props where ocean surfing can't compare: Ocean surfing is tiring as hell where wakesurfing is relaxing. Ocean surfing is difficult as hell to learn where wakesurfing I am generally able to get beginners up and having fun right away. An amazing wave lasts maybe 5-10 seconds, where wakesurfing I can go till my legs turn to jelly. In the ocean crashes can hurt like hell and make you feel like you were put through the spin cycle in a washing machine. I once nearly got impaled on my fin... sliced my wetsuit from nipple to groin and am lucky I didn't spill my guts out. The worst thing to happen to me wakesurfing so far is dropping an unopened beer (I cried). Wakesurfing I can ride tandem with my youngsters... not super exciting for me, but they think it's awesome (plus it makes them think I'm great, and I need all the help I can get). Maybe most importantly, the closest beach to me is 400 miles away. I can go wakesurfing any time its too choppy or I'm too tired to go wakeboarding (oops.. that was another slam wasn't it?).

Yeah, no bashing intended, go for it dudes! I am curious, how is wake size determined? In the ocean if the wave has a 6' face the actual size of the wave is 3', it's measured from the actual water level, which is at the back of the wave. Do wake surfers consider the face as the wake size? I've seen people claim 4' wakes but to me that would mean an 8' foot face. :confused:

V-man
06-23-2012, 10:52 PM
I agree that there is nothing like the feeling you get while ocean surfing. When I moved from Florida to Arizon I knew that in order to continue surfing I would have to give wakesurfing a try. I try not to compare ocean surfing with waksurfing because they are different in many ways. Of course, this thread was about helping someone with a question regarding the size of a board with respect to wakesurfing. Hopefully we have helped him with this. I think a new thread to compare and contrast/discuss pros and cons of both sports should be in order.

coz
06-24-2012, 08:10 AM
I think a new thread to compare and contrast/discuss pros and cons of both sports should be in order.

What? kinda like a "surf waves, not wakes" thread? :D I did see an MB Sports boats throwing a huge wake on the lake the other day that really caught my eye, not sure the model but I saw a 24 on the side and it was a v-drive. That one looked like it might be fun.

Cary K.
06-25-2012, 08:52 AM
No offense to anyone on here but...

Those of you who say wakesurfing is boring, are you just riding in straight lines drinking beers? Wakeboarding, tubing, skiing, etc...are all boring if you ride in a straight line without doing anything. Step the surf game up and it won't be boring. Airs, spins, shuvits, switch, backside all add extra elements into the sport that transforms it from a lazy activity into a full on progressing tow-sport.

With regards to the MB boat comment above, I have been surfing with some MB crew for the last few weeks, and that wave is the best I have ever ridden, and IMHO, puts out the best surf wave in the game. A buddy just got a new X30, and added a HUGE PnP system, so I am very anxious to check it out.

BMcD
07-10-2012, 11:07 AM
Hey all,

Great points about the differences between wave and wake surfing... including the fact that it is hard to conveniently ocean surf when you are hundreds of miles away from the coast.

As one who owns a wakesurf manufacturing company, I would love to share some insight. Unless you are behind a yacht (which is growing in popularity) wakes will never rival waves. Thus, the boards should be built differently. At Day1 (http://www.Liveday1.com) we build surf constructed boards (foam core vs. mass produced compression molded) that are shaped to optimize the boat wake. Because they are light and buoyant, we can push the rocker to the tip and tail to maximize speed. We've got a few other features that set up apart, but I don't mean for this to be a sales pitch.

With regard to the original question, shorter is not faster, it is more nimble for smaller and/or experienced riders. Conversely, if you put a big beginner on a small board they will just bury it and wonder why you think the sport is so much fun. Longer boards with a sharp rail are fast and hold their line, but you will want a swallow tail with short fins if you hope to break it loose to spin or shove.

We have been able to generate a great wake in our X-45, but with about 3000# of ballast 90 gallons of gas, 8 friends on board and an 8.1L engine, the deck is kinda stacked in our favor.

Long live MC!

BMcD
Day1 (http://www.day1wake.com) Wakesurf