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Hogwild
06-17-2012, 09:17 PM
Well I had one of those days that I've heard everyone at the lake talk about. I thought I was doing everything right yesterday. I changed the oil, the tranny fluid, the impeller and the serpentine belt only to take the boat out today and have it all go to h*ll. I started the engine and could smell smoke almost immediately...looked back with the hatch open and the belt have been shredded and could smell smoke. Shut the engine down and replaced the belt with the old one I had for emergency. Fired back up and could smell a little smoke again but the belt was staying on this time. Shut er down and saw small drips coming from the water pump around the gasket. I think my new super duper impeller is probably shredded. Needless to say, I guess I'm going to pay the piper and take the boat in to get it checked out. I want to learn how to work on this thing, but sometimes it can be very frustrating. Sorry for the rant, but thought you guys might enjoy my pain. 8p

Jerseydave
06-17-2012, 09:39 PM
Take the belt off and turn each pulley by hand. Sounds like you have a seized alternator, water pump or belt tensioner. Isolate the problem, then repair.

Sorry to hear that your father's day was less than stellar. Hope your fix is a simple one.

What boat/engine do you have?

Hogwild
06-17-2012, 10:38 PM
Take the belt off and turn each pulley by hand. Sounds like you have a seized alternator, water pump or belt tensioner. Isolate the problem, then repair.

Sorry to hear that your father's day was less than stellar. Hope your fix is a simple one.

What boat/engine do you have?

I have the LTR. On a 99 Maristar. Problem is I don't really have time during the week to fool with it and may just have to pay the piper and take it in. You ever hear the story if it ain't broke then don't fix it? Well I guess I shouldn't have messed with anything. Everything was fine on Friday, but I decided to do a little precautionary work because the belt was a little frayed and I didnt know when the previous owner last changed the impeller. Thank goodness for the good people on the lake. Got a tow in from someone in a 83 stars and stripes.

petermegan
06-17-2012, 11:49 PM
Don't give up on doing your own Maintenance it takes a few stuffups before you learn the tricks. As above check that you haven't got a bearing gone before you fit a new belt and make sure you put the impellor in the right way. Doing your own stuff is pretty rewarding.

Hogwild
06-17-2012, 11:50 PM
Just got off the phone with a local boat dealer. Actually super nice guy but he must serve a different clientele than me. Told me it would cost around $350 to replace my impeller. Guys in shop get $120/hr and part is $50. :eek: I wouldn't think install of the entire water pump would cost that much.

Hogwild
06-18-2012, 12:22 AM
Don't give up on doing your own Maintenance it takes a few stuffups before you learn the tricks. As above check that you haven't got a bearing gone before you fit a new belt and make sure you put the impellor in the right way. Doing your own stuff is pretty rewarding.

That's one thing I'm confused about....i've heard others say on here that it doesn't matter what way the impeller goes in b/c it will align itself correctly on first start. I'm not sure I believe that now that mine shredded the way it did.

I'm definitely not giving up but my boat is stored 45 min away and a pain to go back and forth to work on.

JimN
06-18-2012, 12:24 AM
Just got off the phone with a local boat dealer. Actually super nice guy but he must serve a different clientele than me. Told me it would cost around $350 to replace my impeller. Guys in shop get $120/hr and part is $50. :eek: I wouldn't think install of the entire water pump would cost that much.

They're gouging on the price. There's no way it should take that long to change an impeller on an LTR. If they plan to remove the muffler/inspect the whole exhaust system, it might not be a bad price- ask if this is the reason they think it will take 2-1/2 hours.

Have you ever looked at the raw water side of the oil cooler? That needs to be cleared out often- the '99 owner's manual showed that it should be done every time you take the boat out.

mikeg205
06-18-2012, 12:25 AM
so much help here... really no reason to take to dealer unless you need something really major done and then you can still do most of the work yourself...and save a ton of cash...

Lumbergh
06-18-2012, 01:10 AM
+1

I would not give up over something simple.

$120/h is seriously out of control (our local shops charge it too), and $350 to change an impeller, even a V drive, is gouging.

We all learn from our mistakes, they are the best teaching tools.

TT will save you thousands.

bturner2
06-18-2012, 07:55 AM
For that kind of cash I think I just found myself a retirement job. Now I just need to get 10 of those a week. I could start on Monday and finish up for the week about Tuesday noon.

I'm with the others. Find some time. It stays light till almost 10:00 now if you're working outside and they have these new fangled light bulb things these days that will keep it light all night long. Point being you should be able to find 2 hours to look this over. If not then you've made your decision that the rate being charged is worth more to you than your time and you'll need to pay the price. Unfortunately I've found myself on that end of the stick too.

As far as learning how to work on your boat it sounds to me like your well on your way. Figure out what you screwed up, fix it and then you will not only learned to do it right but you'll also have experience with changing out all those parts since you've now done it twice (well once correctly but you get the point). I've probably learned more from things I've screwed up then the jobs I've done correctly the first time. Now get back out there and fix it right this time!

petermegan
06-18-2012, 08:12 AM
There is normally an arrow for direction of pump travel but if in doubt give the motor a crank to ascertain the rotation before you put the impellor in. I had not heard others speak of the impellor righting itself and personally wouldn't take the chance, it is damn tight in there! Keep your chin up, man have I stuffed some things up. :)

Hogwild
06-18-2012, 10:23 AM
Thanks for the encouragement guys. My whole fear is getting in there and messing something up really bad and not being able to fix it in the long run and just being without a boat for 2-3 weeks. I'm going to try and head out there tonight to take a look at it again before I take it in.


Have you ever looked at the raw water side of the oil cooler? That needs to be cleared out often- the '99 owner's manual showed that it should be done every time you take the boat out.

I have no idea where to even start with this Jim. Where is the oil cooler and how do you clean it?

02ProstarSammyD
06-18-2012, 10:37 AM
Just got off the phone with a local boat dealer. Actually super nice guy but he must serve a different clientele than me. Told me it would cost around $350 to replace my impeller. Guys in shop get $120/hr and part is $50. I wouldn't think install of the entire water pump would cost that much.
LOL. Idk about your setup but it takes me 20-30 min to change my impeller and thats taking long swigs of beer between bolts. Sounds to me like you've got a frozen pulley. Another thought is did you get the belt tight enough? I may be wrong as can be but in my experience if your belt isn't 100% tight its going to free spin and shred. If it were me I'd take everything back apart, inspect the impeller, and reinstall. The worst you are gonna do is waste an hour or so. Maybe I'm just cheap

Jerseydave
06-18-2012, 10:56 AM
Your trans cooler looks like this only black in color

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R147005

Just follow the large hose that is connected to the bottom of the boat to the trans cooler. Remove the hoses off both ends of the cooler, look for debris/seaweed that may be clogging the cooler inside. Take a garden hose and back flush the cooler (reverse direction of water flow) to clear out any debris.

If you have a local auto repair shop they can perform most basic engine service for you if they are willing to. It's not much different than servicing a Chevy V8 from the 90's.

JimN
06-18-2012, 11:07 AM
Thanks for the encouragement guys. My whole fear is getting in there and messing something up really bad and not being able to fix it in the long run and just being without a boat for 2-3 weeks. I'm going to try and head out there tonight to take a look at it again before I take it in.



I have no idea where to even start with this Jim. Where is the oil cooler and how do you clean it?

Here's a simple list of small tools needed to check/clear out the oil cooler-
Small inspection mirror- Sears sells these. If you have a Harbor Freight near you, ever better.
Swivel-head ratchet- it works as a regular wrench and as a nut driver when you turn the head. They come in 1/4" and 3/8".
Sockets- it's cheaper to buy a set than individually, and Harbor Freight's tools are great, for the price.
Hemostat- Radio Shack sells these in straight and curved tip. I have the curved tip. Many know this by a different name- https://www.google.com/search?q=Hemostat&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=mfd&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=CjTfT5iIDOLy2QXX_oXhAQ&ved=0CJwBELAE&biw=1280&bih=671

This is really all you need for this. Changing the impeller is more tricky but it's not terrible if you're mechanically inclined.

If you look at the black hose that goes from the hull to the engine, you'll see a black cylinder with two thinner lines connected to it using brass fittings. It may be near the hull or after the raw water cooler (I don't remember exactly when they moved it). If it's near the hull, you'll need to loosen the hose clamp with a 5/16" nut driver or small ratchet wrench with a 5/16" socket (this is what I found to work much better than a screwdriver or nut driver) before sliding the hose off of the cooler. Use the mirror to look into the hull side of the cooler for weeds, twigs, etc. If the oil cooler is at the front of the engine (rear of the boat), look inside for pieces of old impeller vanes, as well. If the oil cooler is blocked, you'll never get enough water to the engine for cooling it.

If you smelled burning rubber the last time, squeeze the exhaust hoses- if they're really soft and flexible, they may need to be changed. Also, look into the exhaust flaps- if you see a lot of blisters on the plastic flanges, it indicates that no cooling water was going through the engine.

We have listed basic tools for boat maintenance before- you don't need a lot of tools, but don't try to skimp on only a few dollars- it's not worth it if a cheap tool is available. For example, hoses like to stick to what they're mounted on. Don't use a screwdriver unless you're careful to avoid sticking it through and causing a hole. A hose removal tool is cheap- get one.

Philscbx
06-18-2012, 11:15 AM
If I find a video showing the impeller install - you'll see how simple it is.

A Google search anytime you want to see something - enter the search term -
then hit the side menu for image or video.

If the search term ends with comma, teamtalk- the results will come back here.

Hogwild
06-21-2012, 12:23 PM
A follow-up just for my own documentation purposes. It appears it was probably just a bad gasket around the impeller causing the leak in the pump. It's amazing how flimzy those things are. But one of the vanes was broken so it was probably good that it got changed again anyway. And the belt issue seems to have been caused by one of the pulley's locking up like another poster alluded to. I'm not sure how they fixed it, but it got done. So I guess that I didn't screw up near as bad as what I thought. With me being new to DIY work on the boat I figured it was probably better to be safe than sorry. It was an expensive lesson nonetheless..but just part of learning process i guess.

BallBushing
06-21-2012, 12:52 PM
I'll second Jim on cleaning the (oil/transmission) cooler input line on a regular basis. '99 Maristar, was out of action for two weeks last year before I finally figured it out and cleaned it. Takes 15 minutes and the boat has never run better. Actually, framed the grass/weeds that came out of it. The debris now hangs on the cottage wall as a reminder.

Hogwild
06-21-2012, 01:37 PM
I'll second Jim on cleaning the (oil/transmission) cooler input line on a regular basis. '99 Maristar, was out of action for two weeks last year before I finally figured it out and cleaned it. Takes 15 minutes and the boat has never run better. Actually, framed the grass/weeds that came out of it. The debris now hangs on the cottage wall as a reminder.

Yeah I'm going to try and do this this weekend.

Philscbx
06-21-2012, 02:15 PM
Actually, framed the grass/weeds that came out of it.
The debris now hangs on the cottage wall as a reminder.Cool Idea - My seaweed is still on the shop table.

I simply took airtank into the boat - opened both ends of cooler - blew through the top - and with hand under the other end - entire pack of seaweed was in my hand.

SkiDaddy
06-21-2012, 07:20 PM
I'll tell you guys what..........if I tried to hang framed grass/weeds on any wall, my wife would kick my @$$!!!!! Now, if I told her that it was art and I paid $500 for it, well, that just might work!!!

petermegan
06-21-2012, 08:11 PM
Agreed, only difference is mine would pay the $500 and I would have to put up with someone elses weed hanging on my wall. :D

Hogwild
06-23-2012, 12:15 AM
If you look at the black hose that goes from the hull to the engine, you'll see a black cylinder with two thinner lines connected to it using brass fittings. It may be near the hull or after the raw water cooler (I don't remember exactly when they moved it). If it's near the hull, you'll need to loosen the hose clamp with a 5/16" nut driver or small ratchet wrench with a 5/16" socket (this is what I found to work much better than a screwdriver or nut driver) before sliding the hose off of the cooler. Use the mirror to look into the hull side of the cooler for weeds, twigs, etc. If the oil cooler is at the front of the engine (rear of the boat), look inside for pieces of old impeller vanes, as well. If the oil cooler is blocked, you'll never get enough water to the engine for cooling it.

Ok, so I got in there tonight to clean the transmission cooler. Couple of things. There wasn't anything on the inside of the cooler in the area right after I took the hoses off (seaweed and such), but I'm not quite sure how to use the hemostat. The holes on the plates inside the cooler don't appear large enough for me to even stick the hemostat down in there and grab anything that might be lurking inside. I haven't tried to use a garden hose to wash it out yet, but how do I keep from making a huge mess when I do it?

Hogwild
06-23-2012, 12:22 AM
On another note, while cleaning out the cooler I noticed this piece of tubing that just seems to be hanging precariously.

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z480/Kwilson007/001-1.jpg

What is this thing? I don't remember it even being there before I took my boat into the shop. Do both ends need to be attached to something? I can't figure it out for the life of me.

Here's a couple more.

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z480/Kwilson007/002-1.jpg

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z480/Kwilson007/003-1.jpg

And here's the other side of the engine with both ends of this tube at least connected to something.

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z480/Kwilson007/005-2.jpg

petermegan
06-23-2012, 07:27 AM
This is a crankcase breather tube that is loose on my LTR also, I assume it is meant to be glued to the edge of the air intake screen. Has anyone got a photo of this for my benefit also please. It looks like glue residue down one side of my screen.

hester
06-23-2012, 07:56 AM
Don't have a picture but it should be glued down the side of the air intake. Mine fell off last year as well.

JimN
06-23-2012, 08:17 AM
Ok, so I got in there tonight to clean the transmission cooler. Couple of things. There wasn't anything on the inside of the cooler in the area right after I took the hoses off (seaweed and such), but I'm not quite sure how to use the hemostat. The holes on the plates inside the cooler don't appear large enough for me to even stick the hemostat down in there and grab anything that might be lurking inside. I haven't tried to use a garden hose to wash it out yet, but how do I keep from making a huge mess when I do it?

Weeds collect at the inlet side, against the end of the plate that has the tubes soldered to it. Most of the debris doesn't get into the tubes unless it's really fine, like silt, sand or mud. If you can see through the tubes or shine a light through and see it through all of the tubes, it's clear. If you only had a bad gasket, it would definitely keep the raw water from getting into the engine. DO NOT re-use this gasket. When you buy new impellers, get the kit that has the impeller AND the gasket. Don't use silicone or some other gasket-making material, don't over-tighten the little bolts (they're brass and can break easily).

If you don't want to make a mess, don't use high water pressure and leave the hose on the hull side of the oil cooler attached. That way, the water and any debris will never get into the bilge.

MariStar-Man
06-23-2012, 10:36 AM
I have the LTR. On a 99 Maristar. Got a tow in from someone in a 83 stars and stripes.

That is so ironic... our 99 Maristar just gave a Stars and Stripes a tow in from a remote area last week! At the end of a really hot day, we were cruising like most do around the lake. I went to the very back part where most do not go because of the water being so shallow, and we see this nice stars and stripes with engine hood up. The kids were like, "Hey can you please help?" It was getting dark and it didn't seem that anyone else would be coming by such a remote area. We pulled them in at 5 mph for about 5 miles. They were like, "Dude if you hadn't came by we would have been stuck back there all night!"

Hogwild, It would seem that if there were a water source in your storage, you could have prolly fixed or trouble shot the issues yourself. I'm glad the shredded belt is fixed, but do we really know why the pulley locked up, or how it was repaired?

Hogwild
06-23-2012, 10:50 AM
This is a crankcase breather tube that is loose on my LTR also, I assume it is meant to be glued to the edge of the air intake screen. Has anyone got a photo of this for my benefit also please. It looks like glue residue down one side of my screen.

You guys were right. I found out where it goes. Took a picture of where the air intake is so everyone might see.

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z480/Kwilson007/006-1.jpg

And here's one of the front of the air intake where it should be glued across.

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z480/Kwilson007/009-1.jpg

I scraped off the old glue residue and am gluing the breather tube back on as we speak. Thanks guys.

Hogwild
06-23-2012, 10:57 AM
Weeds collect at the inlet side, against the end of the plate that has the tubes soldered to it. Most of the debris doesn't get into the tubes unless it's really fine, like silt, sand or mud. If you can see through the tubes or shine a light through and see it through all of the tubes, it's clear. If you only had a bad gasket, it would definitely keep the raw water from getting into the engine. DO NOT re-use this gasket. When you buy new impellers, get the kit that has the impeller AND the gasket. Don't use silicone or some other gasket-making material, don't over-tighten the little bolts (they're brass and can break easily).

If you don't want to make a mess, don't use high water pressure and leave the hose on the hull side of the oil cooler attached. That way, the water and any debris will never get into the bilge.

Here's a pic of the inside of the transmission cooler. I sprayed water in both sides at a pretty good rate to try and wash anything out, but I couldn't see down each of the tubes even with a flashlight. It seems like it's clear though. And I'm still not sure how the hemostat will work because it won't fit down any of the tubes even if stuff gets caught in there. I small little phillips screwdriver won't even go in there. Am I doing it wrong?

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z480/Kwilson007/005-3.jpg

And I bought a brand new impeller kit with fresh gasket so it would be like new. I'm a little OCD like that and would never try and reuse the old gasket. :D

MariStar-Man
06-23-2012, 11:00 AM
WEnt outside to grab some cell phone pix:

The tube on the driveers side of my enigne goes from the valve cover to a port in the air intake housing. It is black plastic.

On the passenger side of engine, it goes from valve cover to somewhere under the intake plenum.

I have cleaned the air intake screen before, by removing 3" hose clamp at beginning of plastic housing, and washing it with soap and water, and drying with blow dryer.

i looked around for that GREY TUBE attached to your hose. Does it go inside the black plastic air intake or along side? the picture on mine indicates it going inside after the 90 degree

Hogwild
06-23-2012, 11:05 AM
Hogwild, It would seem that if there were a water source in your storage, you could have prolly fixed or trouble shot the issues yourself. I'm glad the shredded belt is fixed, but do we really know why the pulley locked up, or how it was repaired?



Maristar-Man, I think you are definitely right in that I probably could have repaired myself if I could have set up a fake a lake and made sure it ran before heading out on the water. In fact, I ran out last night and bought some tubing to make a 5 gallon set-up today. From now on, after any maintenance that I do I'm going to be sure to run it before taking it to the ramp. As far as the pulley goes, I have no idea what they did. I think it was pretty much a b.s. charge b/c the ticket says they "removed the pulley and turned the washer over." That just sounds like a way to bill extra shop hours. Either way, I'm learning along the way so that is good. I don't know what I would do without all of you on this board though. You guys have been so great!! I never would have even attempted to try any maintenance if if weren't for all of you.

Hogwild
06-23-2012, 11:12 AM
WEnt outside to grab some cell phone pix:

i looked around for that GREY TUBE attached to your hose. Does it go inside the black plastic air intake or along side? the picture on mine indicates it going inside after the 90 degree

It is actually just glued to the front of the air intake. You could tell because the gray tube and the air intake both had glue residue and the tube matched up exactly with the lip of the air intake. I will take a picture after the glue is done drying.

MariStar-Man
06-23-2012, 11:22 AM
ok, I see it from the front part of the engine. Haha I knew that tube looked familiar...

Philscbx
06-23-2012, 03:31 PM
ok, I see it from the front part of the engine. Haha I knew that tube looked familiar...So the tube must have small holes punched in a line along that tube then if mounted like that.
SOrta gentle way of mixing it back in vs straight into the intake manifold as usual.

It's also one way to know up front - any oil steam vapor coming out of it at the rate of throttle - rings are about done.
Engines don't like eating this - and perform poorly.

Hogwild
06-23-2012, 05:24 PM
So the tube must have small holes punched in a line along that tube then if mounted like that.
SOrta gentle way of mixing it back in vs straight into the intake manifold as usual.

It's also one way to know up front - any oil steam vapor coming out of it at the rate of throttle - rings are about done.
Engines don't like eating this - and perform poorly.

Actually the tube is cut off on the entire front side so it's really only a half of a tube. There are no holes.

JimN
06-23-2012, 05:38 PM
Here's a pic of the inside of the transmission cooler. I sprayed water in both sides at a pretty good rate to try and wash anything out, but I couldn't see down each of the tubes even with a flashlight. It seems like it's clear though. And I'm still not sure how the hemostat will work because it won't fit down any of the tubes even if stuff gets caught in there. I small little phillips screwdriver won't even go in there. Am I doing it wrong?

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z480/Kwilson007/005-3.jpg

And I bought a brand new impeller kit with fresh gasket so it would be like new. I'm a little OCD like that and would never try and reuse the old gasket. :D

The hemostat doesn't need to fit in the little tubes. It's for grabbing any debris that collects at the inlet. You don't stick it in, you just grab what's there.

You already established that the gasket caused the problem, as well as the vane(s) missing from the impeller. New impellers don't usually lose a vane the first time it's run dry. The ends may melt, but the vanes don't break off.

Philscbx
06-23-2012, 08:23 PM
Actually the tube is cut off on the entire front side so it's really only a half of a tube. There are no holes.Deceptive photographers :)

Hogwild
06-23-2012, 08:32 PM
Deceptive photographers :)

Ha ha...I actually looked at mine again while the glue is drying and the tube has a small gap at both ends of it so as to allow air to flow through.

petermegan
06-23-2012, 08:43 PM
That tube is one of the only things I have perceived as a design fault on the LTR since I have had it. Mine was loose when I bought my boat secondhand and it made me wonder how long the crankcase had been breathing unfilterd air, could have been insects or anything crawling up there.

Is that only water on the ends of your transmission cooler, It looked like oil in the photo?

Hogwild
06-23-2012, 09:13 PM
Is that only water on the ends of your transmission cooler, It looked like oil in the photo?

It's some sort of coating actually baked onto the plate sort of like a powder coating. I rubbed it but nothing came off on my fingers.

JimN
06-23-2012, 09:14 PM
That tube is one of the only things I have perceived as a design fault on the LTR since I have had it. Mine was loose when I bought my boat secondhand and it made me wonder how long the crankcase had been breathing unfilterd air, could have been insects or anything crawling up there.

Is that only water on the ends of your transmission cooler, It looked like oil in the photo?

Yours was loose because someone made that happen. They don't fall off by themselves.

The crankcase doesn't "breathe unfiltered air". Do you know what a PCV valve is? The crankcase is slightly positively pressurized and, rather than maintain that pressure/blow out gaskets at high RPM, the fumes from down there are drawn into the intake when the demand for air is high. Think about it- the flame arrestor is where combustion air is sucked in- how would the crankcase be able to compete with that much vacuum? Also, what would the fresh air do for the crankcase, anyway?

Philscbx
06-23-2012, 09:15 PM
petermegan how long the crankcase had been breathing unfilterd air, could have been insects or anything crawling up there.Crankcase vent out - it's put up near the aircleaner to suck what vents out - no big deal.
Like I mentioned earlier - visible oil smoke/vapor - pistons rings are done.

Is that only water on the ends of your transmission cooler, It looked like oil in the photo?Probably looking at solder joints on end of tubes.

petermegan
06-24-2012, 12:34 AM
whoa calm down big fella's. First of all glueing it to the air intake wasn't done very well in this instance, I could see by the amount of adhesive used it only had a couple of 'dobs' on it. Secondly the 'PCV' valve is on the other rocker cover where the crank case breather goes to the inlet manifold. On this side it is open to the air and you can blow through it easily (no PCV), this tube is big enough for a fair size insect or other contaminent to make it's way up. When glued to the filter screen it stops this doing that. My understanding is that fresh air is entering the crankcase if need be through this hose. Is this statement correct? And sorry for highjacking the thread with this stuff. Cheers.:confused:

petermegan
06-24-2012, 12:50 AM
Yours was loose because someone made that happen. They don't fall off by themselves.

The crankcase doesn't "breathe unfiltered air". Do you know what a PCV valve is? The crankcase is slightly positively pressurized and, rather than maintain that pressure/blow out gaskets at high RPM, the fumes from down there are drawn into the intake when the demand for air is high. Think about it- the flame arrestor is where combustion air is sucked in- how would the crankcase be able to compete with that much vacuum? Also, what would the fresh air do for the crankcase, anyway?

Sorry Jim,My understanding was that the PCV valve side has the suction hose going to the inlet manifold which has the greater vacuum whilst the demand for air is high, whilst the other side (without PCV) picks it's air up from the filter screen/flame arrestor where the vacuum is slightly less. Otherwise why is there a PCV on one side and not the other?