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dezthecat
08-23-2005, 11:34 PM
How many amps is it putting out? I recently added a third amp to push the four JL tower speakers. The original amps continue to work but the new Alpine amp for the tower speakers shuts off when I push it for a few minutes. Is it possible that the alternator isn't putting out enough current? Also, where should I run the third power supply cable from for the new amp? Should it be hooked up to the battery-cutoff switch? I turn off the batteries everytime I put the boat up. I have two batteries. Thanks again.

Workin' 4 Toys
08-24-2005, 10:01 AM
How many amps is it putting out? I recently added a third amp to push the four JL tower speakers. The original amps continue to work but the new Alpine amp for the tower speakers shuts off when I push it for a few minutes. Is it possible that the alternator isn't putting out enough current? Also, where should I run the third power supply cable from for the new amp? Should it be hooked up to the battery-cutoff switch? I turn off the batteries everytime I put the boat up. I have two batteries. Thanks again.
I am not sure how many amps your alternator is putting out, if you really need to know, bring it to a service center that can test it for you. That is the only way to check the accurancy. I am sure there are some that could guess.
As far as the amps and enough current. This should not matter if it is wired properly. You shouldn't even need the boat running. And with dual batteries, I would think even less of the alternator. How many amps and how many watts each are you running.
The new amp might have an overheat issue more than a current issue. I have seen several posts here in relation to location of the amps, and their circuit protection from overheat. Some have added cooling fans, some have left the compartment open while jammin'.
And last but not least, check to make sure none of your wires are shorting out.

Alteczen
08-24-2005, 10:24 AM
Dez...I'm sure your situation is similar to mine. I have 3 amps in my 04 xstar and one of the threee is a 450 W JL powering the tower speakers. If I push the volume up that amp cuts out first as well.

Here is my educated guess at the problem. I'm not an expert in audio but I know my fair share...take it for what it's worth.


I'm pretty sure this is a result of the way the tower speakers are wired. The factory default setup has the two left tower speakers wired in series (together) and the right two the same way. Thus there is one speaker wire that goes up through the tower leg to power 2 speakers. This is evident if you look at the speaker wiring for the tower speakers running to your tower amp.

Your amp cuts out because you want it to go louder and you increase the volume to try and reach a desired level. However the speakers are limited in the power received because of the wiring delivering that signal - thus not getting as loud as they should. It doesn't sound extremely loud so you keep increasing volume until the amp kicks itself into safety mode and shuts itself off.

I have bridged 2 channels on my amp to try and send more power but it still doesn't give me the desired volumes and I have the same results. I am planning on rewiring the tower speakers so that each speaker has it's own wire and own channel (4 tower speakers on a 4 channel amp). I haven't got around to doing this because any spare time I get I'm on the water...plus it's not a 30 min. job to do it right.

Diesel
08-24-2005, 10:43 AM
How many amps is it putting out? I recently added a third amp to push the four JL tower speakers. The original amps continue to work but the new Alpine amp for the tower speakers shuts off when I push it for a few minutes. Is it possible that the alternator isn't putting out enough current? Also, where should I run the third power supply cable from for the new amp? Should it be hooked up to the battery-cutoff switch? I turn off the batteries everytime I put the boat up. I have two batteries. Thanks again.

Sounds like the amp is not 2ohm stereo stable and it is dropping into protection mode. Do you have 4 or 2 tower speakers? If 4 are they wired in parallel or series??

PendO
08-24-2005, 10:58 AM
Alteczen your right .. (pull more wires and you will like the sound a lot better)

Its been a while, but if I remember right we re-wired and replaced all of the tower speakers and tweeters soon after purchase so that there was 1 crossover per speaker / tweeter combo (using a 4 channel amp)... from the factory the tweeter is daisy chained from the main speaker? (is that correct, cant remember) So, now each side of the tower has 4 pair of wires going up, 2 pair for the main speaker, and 2 pair for the tweeters, took a while to pull all the wire (had to use that slimy stuff - actually, the stereo shop guys had to use it;) I know there is one amp specifically for the tower, and I think 2nd amp is for the Sub and boat speakers (we did not add a 3rd amp) ... my brother will probably remember better than I so perhaps he can post later. Needless to say, the speakers never cut out and get loud enough to hear them from a long ways away.

I think the big thing is the proper # of crossovers, and putting each speaker/tweeter on its own channel.

mhsb1029
08-24-2005, 11:18 AM
I wish that I knew more about this audio stuff but I will at least give you what I remember. I believe that from the factory there was 1 pair of wires for the left side of the tower(2 complete sets of speakers) and one pair for the right. When we re-wired we pulled 4 pairs of wires per side of the tower (2 speakers, each with a mid and a tweeter). So each mid and each tweeter had a set of wires. I don't know much about audio, but it just seemed to me like if you wanted to push a lot of power to those tower speakers you needed to give yourself some more bandwith(what to call it?). The factory wiring setup just seemed a bit inadequate to me. After we replaced the wiring and the tower speakers we had no problem cranking the volume up to a level to where the rider could hear it. Hope this helps.

Mark

Diesel
08-24-2005, 12:59 PM
I wish that I knew more about this audio stuff but I will at least give you what I remember. I believe that from the factory there was 1 pair of wires for the left side of the tower(2 complete sets of speakers) and one pair for the right. When we re-wired we pulled 4 pairs of wires per side of the tower (2 speakers, each with a mid and a tweeter). So each mid and each tweeter had a set of wires. I don't know much about audio, but it just seemed to me like if you wanted to push a lot of power to those tower speakers you needed to give yourself some more bandwith(what to call it?). The factory wiring setup just seemed a bit inadequate to me. After we replaced the wiring and the tower speakers we had no problem cranking the volume up to a level to where the rider could hear it. Hope this helps.

Mark

Just to be clear you have 4 speaker cans with 4 tweeters and 4 mid drivers??

Does the new amp have 4 channels or is is 2?

Each component set (tweeter and mid) should be treated as one speaker. The amp should only see one speaker even though there is a tweeter and a mid driver. There should be one crossover for each component set. The crossover automatically matches the impedance of the set even though there are actually two drivers. In most cases it is 4ohms for the component set.

Take the port side of the boat for instance. You have two speaker cans that need a signal.

If you have a four channel amp two channels (front two channels) will be used, one for each speaker.

If you have a two channel amp the will either have to be wired in parallel or series.

If your two channel amp is 2ohm stereo stable you need to wire them in parallel to extract maximum power from the amp. In parallel the positive of speaker can one is connecte to the positive of speaker can two. Then then the negative of speaker can one is connected to the negative of speaker can two. Then both speakers are connected to one channel (left) of the amp.

If the amp is not 2 ohm stereo stable you will have to wire the two cans in series. Take a positive from can one and a negative from can two and wire them to one channel (left) of the two channel amp. Now take the loose negative from can one and the positive from can two and wire them toghether. You really need a big amp to make this configuration work since you are splitting the nominal signal between two drivers.

Both two channel configurations should be wired in the cans and you should only have four wires runing to the tower. All wiring should occur pre crossover as well so not to screw up the impedance.

PendO
08-24-2005, 01:08 PM
Just to be clear you have 4 speaker cans with 4 tweeters and 4 mid drivers??

Does the new amp have 4 channels or is is 2?

Each component set (tweeter and mid) should be treated as one speaker. The amp should only see one speaker even though there is a tweeter and a mid driver. There should be one crossover for each component set. The crossover automatically matches the impedance of the set even though there are actually two drivers. In most cases it is 4ohms for the component set.

Take the port side of the boat for instance. You have two speaker cans that need a signal.

If you have a four channel amp two channels (front two channels) will be used, one for each speaker.

If you have a two channel amp the will either have to be wired in parallel or series.

If your two channel amp is 2ohm stereo stable you need to wire them in parallel to extract maximum power from the amp. In parallel the positive of speaker can one is connecte to the positive of speaker can two. Then then the negative of speaker can one is connected to the negative of speaker can two. Then both speakers are connected to one channel (left) of the amp.

If the amp is not 2 ohm stereo stable you will have to wire the two cans in series. Take a positive from can one and a negative from can two and wire them to one channel (left) of the two channel amp. Now take the loose negative from can one and the positive from can two and wire them toghether. You really need a big amp to make this configuration work since you are splitting the nominal signal between two drivers.


Both two channel configurations should be wired in the cans and you should only have four wires runing to the tower. All wiring should occur pre crossover as well so not to screw up the impedance.

Yes 4 speaker cans on the tower ... honestly, after purchase and a few hours we just drove the thing to a local stereo shop ... without driving to the water I'm pretty sure they went from the 4 channel amp to the crossover then from the crossover up to the tower, with 2 pairs of wires from each crossover. At this point I cannot remember if they used the stock amp or not, as we had a 3rd amp we had planned on using, but they wired it with 2 ... dedicating one for the tower. As far as the balance on the stereo (Front/Rear) ... the tower is one or the other, and the in boat speakers/sub are the other.

The original speakers had some sort of a crossover built into the mid (right) that went to the tweeter. I'll take some pictures the next time up and post them;) Casey

Diesel
08-24-2005, 01:12 PM
Honestly, after purchase and a few hours we just drove the thing to a local stereo shop ... without driving to the water I'm pretty sure they went from the 4 channel amp to the crossover then from the crossover up to the tower, with 2 pairs of wires from each crossover.

The original speakers had some sort of a crossover built into the mid (right) that went to the tweeter.

Ah the crossovers are not in the cans then..................

You would be correct since the wiring to the tower was post crossover..........two for each tweeter and two for each mid driver (per side).

PendO
08-24-2005, 01:13 PM
correct (we replaced the stock speakers with ones that did not have the crossovers in the cans)... seriously, when the water is glass you can hear it from a long ways away (over a mile) the sound just carries;)

zberger
08-24-2005, 09:39 PM
Ah the crossovers are not in the cans then..................

You would be correct since the wiring to the tower was post crossover..........two for each tweeter and two for each mid driver (per side).
you ever post pics of your finished setup?

you always get to these threads before me :mad:

PendO
08-25-2005, 01:55 AM
Here are three of the crossovers, you can see 2, the 3rd is farther to the front

PendO
08-25-2005, 01:56 AM
The 4th crossover

PendO
08-25-2005, 01:58 AM
picture of cropped crossover

PendO
08-25-2005, 01:59 AM
changed the sub

PendO
08-25-2005, 02:00 AM
Changed all the tower speakers to this (MB quartz)

PendO
08-25-2005, 02:02 AM
Used the stock amps - the red/black wires go to the crossovers, then 2 pair from the crossover to each tower speaker combo - for a total of 8 pairs of wires in the tower

Diesel
08-25-2005, 11:34 AM
you ever post pics of your finished setup?

you always get to these threads before me :mad:

I don't think I ever did post the finished product. I haven't even had the time to take some finished pics. I've been out enjoying the lake and the tunes!! Most my time has been spent trying to get my damn PP to work correctly :mad: . Anyway, I am still trying to dial in the sounds. The dynamic parameters of the Pioneer HU and the infinitely adjustable SX amps has me constantly tweaking......................I am close but not quite there yet. Just need a weeked at the lake with out the kido and the wife who is always telling me to turn it down!

Already have quite a list of things I need to do to improve it over the winter.