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tdjaster
06-05-2012, 03:24 PM
Have a '98 SportStar with an '03 205V trailer. Obviously, the trailer is 1 foot longer than the boat. I bought it like this from the previous owner. Because of the trailer not being a perfect match, there is a lot of tongue weight on the truck. It rides okay but probably is wearing on the truck and trailer more than I'd like it to.

The ideal situation would be to find some poor sap with a too short trailer and pull an old swap-a-roo. However the chances of that are pretty slim. I called Magnum trailers in San Antonio and they said they could move the bow stop back a foot but they're currently backlogged 2-3 weeks and I'd have to leave the boat and trailer with them for the entire time. Being without my boat for 3 weeks in the summer?...not gonna happen.

I'm trying to brainstorm solutions that would be relatively cheap, yet effective. I have someone who wants to buy my trailer and I know Rambo Marine has a trailer that would fit my boat but they're pretty far away and I'd have to probably spend a grand out of pocket plus drive to Alabama and back.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

wrobins1
06-05-2012, 03:27 PM
Pictures worth a thousand words...

ricford
06-05-2012, 04:36 PM
Before moving the bow stop back load your boat where you think it should ride and make sure it looks supported properly and check the tongue weight to make sure it's exactly where you want it. Then I would take it to a local welding shop and have them move it.

petermegan
06-05-2012, 06:57 PM
Might be a benefit having effectively a slightly longer tongue on your trailer, you don't have to put your truck in the water so far to launch, more room to get to the tailgate of your truck. Not all bad. If the trailer otherwise fits, I would just shift the post back.

-V-
06-05-2012, 07:24 PM
I would go to the truckstop off I-10 and get your tonge weighed, like ricford said. Verify that you have too much wieght on the front.

If you have too much weight then you could just move the front bump stop and have the boat sit father back.

There is a place that does work like that (welding), In Converse by the Super Walmart, there is a tire place that has a good welder in the back. Come out of WalMart, at the light take a left. Go about 1/8 of a mile. Big yellow sign on left. If you have a friend that speaks spanish, I would bring him along. The only thing would be they might ask to have the boat off the trailer. If thats the case, TSR or rambo marine for some short time storage.

Hope this helps.

tdjaster
06-05-2012, 10:05 PM
I would go to the truckstop off I-10 and get your tonge weighed, like ricford said. Verify that you have too much wieght on the front.

If you have too much weight then you could just move the front bump stop and have the boat sit father back.

There is a place that does work like that (welding), In Converse by the Super Walmart, there is a tire place that has a good welder in the back. Come out of WalMart, at the light take a left. Go about 1/8 of a mile. Big yellow sign on left. If you have a friend that speaks spanish, I would bring him along. The only thing would be they might ask to have the boat off the trailer. If thats the case, TSR or rambo marine for some short time storage.

Hope this helps.


What truck stop on I-10? (there's a lot)

-V-
06-05-2012, 10:55 PM
What truck stop on I-10? (there's a lot)

Travel Center of America Located at the SW corner of I-10 and N. Foster Road.

TravelCenters of America
6170 I-10 East Foster Rd
San Antonio, TX 78219
(210) 310-0145
tatravelcenters.com‎

If you go to google map, the grid coodinates are;

29.442409, -98.361702

that is the grid of where the scale is. In the pic look for the goldish bobtail.

Hope this helps.

tdjaster
06-05-2012, 11:09 PM
Travel Center of America Located at the SW corner of I-10 and N. Foster Road.

TravelCenters of America
6170 I-10 East Foster Rd
San Antonio, TX 78219
(210) 310-0145
tatravelcenters.com‎

If you go to google map, the grid coodinates are;

29.442409, -98.361702

that is the grid of where the scale is. In the pic look for the goldish bobtail.

Hope this helps.


Gotchya...I know exactly where that one is.

FrankSchwab
06-05-2012, 11:28 PM
You really need to have someone determine the right location for the bow stop before you start cutting and welding. It's unlikely to be as simple as "move it back a foot" - if the boats were built identically but one was a foot longer, the correct answer is probably closer to half a foot.

/frank

Philscbx
06-06-2012, 06:05 AM
I really don't see the problem with tongue weight as it is.
I'd rather have more than less.
Less = more unstable.
If defensive move is required in traffic, marginal tongue weight would be a loosing battle.
Boat would be in control in sudden lane change.

There's a few on YouTube that wish they had more as it goes out of control and crashes
when weight is too light on the tongue.

As long as bunks are politically correct.

A view with it loaded is a must.
There are advantages longer than shorter, as others mentioned.

tdjaster
06-06-2012, 07:41 AM
I really don't see the problem with tongue weight as it is.
I'd rather have more than less.
Less = more unstable.
If defensive move is required in traffic, marginal tongue weight would be a loosing battle.
Boat would be in control in sudden lane change.

There's a few on YouTube that wish they had more as it goes out of control and crashes
when weight is too light on the tongue.

As long as bunks are politically correct.

A view with it loaded is a must.
There are advantages longer than shorter, as others mentioned.


It's all packed up in the garage right now but I'll have it out this weekend and will take a picture.

One other point that bothers me with the extra tongue weight is that, because it's so front heavy, there is a lot of weight on the jack and wheel when it's in the garage. When I try to maneuver it on the concrete I feel like the pressure it's putting on the jack will eventually snap it right off the frame. When it's just me, I "can" swing the bow around to get it into place but it takes a lot of effort. When my wife is pushing the back end in concert with where I'm pushing the front end moves much easier.

petermegan
06-06-2012, 08:11 AM
Interesting link on tongue weight for a boat trailer, just one of many http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/pf_trstep3.htm
You certainly need to keep moving your boat back on the bunks inch by inch until you have reached the desired tongue weight, don't just guess it. You could do it at the ramp with the bunks wet. Leave it back and winch it forward until you have the correct weight.

-V-
06-06-2012, 08:49 AM
Gotchya...I know exactly where that one is.

2 minutes from my house. :D

tdjaster
06-06-2012, 12:43 PM
Interesting link on tongue weight for a boat trailer, just one of many http://www.shorelandr.com/pages/pf_trstep3.htm
You certainly need to keep moving your boat back on the bunks inch by inch until you have reached the desired tongue weight, don't just guess it. You could do it at the ramp with the bunks wet. Leave it back and winch it forward until you have the correct weight.

Good site.

I also found a couple "how to" pages that tell how to measure tongue wait at home with a bathroom scale, a couple of pipes and a board or two. Might try that before the weekend.

wrobins1
06-06-2012, 01:03 PM
Depending on the trailer it may be possible to adjust tongue weight without welding.... Some trailers offer movable axles that would change the tongue weight without welding. This is why I was asking for pictures. My miss matched trailer axles can be moved by losing a few bolts and using a couple of jacks and jack stands to hold the trailer even with the boat on the trailer. This would even prevent me from having to worry about the quality of the welds.

tdjaster
06-06-2012, 01:04 PM
Depending on the trailer it may be possible to adjust tongue weight without welding.... Some trailers offer movable axles that would change the tongue weight without welding. This is why I was asking for pictures. My miss matched trailer axles can be moved by losing a few bolts and using a couple of jacks and jack stands to hold the trailer even with the boat on the trailer. This would even prevent me from having to worry about the quality of the welds.

Ah ha! I find this very interesting. :-)

I like that idea a lot. I will check when I get home and then post some pics tonight.

Philscbx
06-06-2012, 05:10 PM
a lot of weight on the jack and wheel when it's in the garage. When I try to maneuver it on the concrete I feel like the pressure it's putting on the jack will eventually snap it right off the frame.These are not truly moving casters on the these jacks - more of, need an inch more to get it on the truck ball.

They are difficult when on unloaded snowmobile trailers.

They don't have bearings as true casters.
Maybe Good thing, or they would be taking off down the road.

Seems only Sweden has locking hand brakes to all wheels on the tongue.
I tried for years to find anything similar in the US, Nope.
The same Sweden mfg that imports their best trailers here - no handbrakes. wth.

The best deal for moving it extreme at the tongue in a garage is setting jack/wheel on modified 4 wheel caster moving pad with true bearings, and chocks in place to keep trailer wheels from going too far, taking swim platform into sheet rock at 0.2knots.

Im spoiled with modified hitch I made for the Hydro JohnDeere lawnmower.
Made the ball exactly the same height as the truck.
I can jackknife it 180 anywhere at will at snail pace within its space.

tdjaster
06-06-2012, 08:39 PM
Pictures...

I looked up under the axle and I'm seeing too much that is welded so I don't think that idea will work.

My biggest concern with moving the bowstop back would be the shorter bow holder near the bowstop. If I move the stopper back (up to a foot), then the shorter bow holder will be too short. I suppose I could have a welder extend it but I'm sure they wouldn't be able to paint match it and I don't want this project to look second-rate.

I still have to check the actual tongue weight.

Take a look and tell me what you think.

79889

79888

79890

79891

79892

79893

Philscbx
06-06-2012, 09:20 PM
The first thing that Hits me,
A Second Axle.


Mine looks the same, for the 209, and I really want dual axles.
The distance factor is sometimes 1200 round trip.
The single axle fenders, probably wouldn't last long, putting them up for sale.

As for cutting / welding / painting - that's quite simple with most paint shops for color match.
Every car minor damage goes through the same process to match 100%. Not much of a challenge now.

tdjaster
06-06-2012, 09:29 PM
The first thing that Hits me,
A Second Axle.


Mine looks the same, for the 209, and I really want dual axles.
The distance factor is sometimes 1200 round trip.
The single axle fenders, probably wouldn't last long, putting them up for sale.

I thought of that as well...how hard of a job do you think that would be? And how much $$?

Ben
06-06-2012, 09:36 PM
I agree that moving the bow stop would make the project bigger and more paint to worry about making look nice.

I'd be tempted to tell the person who wants your trailer it will be available soon. Then look all over the place for a proper trailer. Mentally plan to use as-is for a while so you don't overpay on the new one because you are in a hurry.

My opinion: The few hundred or more you may "lose" on the proper trailer will certainly be money better spent than messing with an iterative experiment on boat position on the trailer + welding + trying to make the paint look nice.

Having said that, I wouldn't be super worried about welding on the trailer if you want. The bow stop is on the top side of the tube, which is in compression, not tension. The V-block think is just kinda floating out there, and if you extended that back somehow, I also wouldn't be too worried.

tdjaster
06-06-2012, 09:40 PM
I'd be tempted to tell the person who wants your trailer it will be available soon. Then look all over the place for a proper trailer. Mentally plan to use as-is for a while so you don't overpay on the new one because you are in a hurry.


This is pretty much what I've already done. We bought the boat almost 3 months ago.

Extending the V-block backwards wouldn't work because there isn't a cross piece to attach it to.

Philscbx
06-06-2012, 10:29 PM
We locally have a specialized source for these type of axles.
Pioneer rim & tire (http://www.pioneerwheel.com/builder.php) in Mpls.

Possible source (http://www.dexteraxle.com/texas)may be local for your area.
Then maybe put in a ad for wheels/fenders at Ebay/Craigslist.

For the weight class, sample :Torsion Trailer Axle (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200323659_200323659) — 3500-Lb. Maybe $250 - $400 depending on source & style & brake options.
It wouldn't have to have brakes on 2nd axle.

Yes, you would have to have cross beam support added for the V -Block.
I'd do a fly by at a custom trailer shop - see what they think for the changes needed.
He really is a good looking ship.

petermegan
06-07-2012, 04:22 AM
Before you get too excited I think you should find the position your boat needs to be on the trailer to give you an optimum tongue weight. It may only be 4inches back from photos, in which case you could space the 'V block' up with some timber and carpet and possibly even space your boat buddy back with some welding. This would save any major engineering/painting and preserve the trailer as is. It is a nice trailer and a pity to change too much. I have a friend who has a 197 on a single that thought the tongue weight was a bit heavy so he shifted the main post back, not a big exercise either. Have fun.

wrobins1
06-07-2012, 08:36 AM
Pictures...

I looked up under the axle and I'm seeing too much that is welded so I don't think that idea will work.

My biggest concern with moving the bowstop back would be the shorter bow holder near the bowstop. If I move the stopper back (up to a foot), then the shorter bow holder will be too short. I suppose I could have a welder extend it but I'm sure they wouldn't be able to paint match it and I don't want this project to look second-rate.

I still have to check the actual tongue weight.

Take a look and tell me what you think.

79888



Your trailer is a lot better match than my.... (softly crying) My trailer is closer to the white ez-trailer trailer beside yours. The only thing I can say is it was cheap.

Philscbx
06-07-2012, 03:33 PM
The highly wanted dual axle Trailer. (http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=790413&postcount=1)

Looks & I bet handles Great!

Notice how far under the Bow Holder sits.

A little search action found - reliablepmw.com - rubber_torsion_axle_quotesheet (http://www.reliablepmw.com/admin/brochures/rubber_torsion_axle_quotesheet.pdf)

Found dolly like I mentioned earlier (http://www.iboats.com/Trailer-Jack-Dolly-Attachment-For-Boat-Dolly/dm/view_id.886269) for moving boat around in the garage.

tdjaster
06-09-2012, 12:38 PM
Before you get too excited I think you should find the position your boat needs to be on the trailer to give you an optimum tongue weight. It may only be 4inches back from photos, in which case you could space the 'V block' up with some timber and carpet and possibly even space your boat buddy back with some welding. This would save any major engineering/painting and preserve the trailer as is. It is a nice trailer and a pity to change too much. I have a friend who has a 197 on a single that thought the tongue weight was a bit heavy so he shifted the main post back, not a big exercise either. Have fun.


Just took a measurement of the tongue weight....630 pounds!!!!

I used this method: http://hildstrom.com/projects/tonguescale/index.html, double checked my math, used myself and my wife as calibration attempts before putting the trailer on so I'm pretty certain it's accurate.

I estimate the boat and trailer to weigh around 3,500 lbs. Most calculations say you want 6% of the total on the tongue which means about 210 lbs.

We are going to the lake tomorrow so we're going to bring this science fair project with us and try re-positioning the boat on the trailer and re-weighing the tongue. I'm also going to hit a scale at a truck stop on the way out so I can get an accurate dry weight. I'll probably have an update tomorrow evening.

Thanks for all of the ideas everyone. If you've got any more insight, keep it coming!

tdjaster
06-09-2012, 12:48 PM
What do you all think of taking off the Boat Buddy, getting someone to fashion a piece to extend just the top section of the bow stop back a few inches so that I then can reattach the Boat Buddy? Maybe it could be a solution without having to cut the bow stop off and weld it back on.

80009

petermegan
06-09-2012, 06:42 PM
Sorry, That was what I was trying to explain in my last post. It may be possible if it is only 4in. you have to shift your boat back. Chock up your V block with some timber and you might be away.

Thrall
06-10-2012, 10:53 AM
While 600# tongue weight is alot for a PS 190, I bet the tongue weight of my X2 in tow is close to that on the OE tandem trailer.
If everything else works fine with the trailer and loading/unloading why not just spend a couple hundred bucks on a set of airbags or Timbrens for the back of your truck? Easier install than re-fabbing the trailer.

petermegan
06-10-2012, 07:14 PM
630 pounds is a lot! I would think that would be overloading your towbar capacity. Imagine what pressure it would be exerting on a rough,pitching road. I doubt your brake coupling would be enjoying it either. Good choice to try and change it.

tdjaster
06-10-2012, 08:42 PM
I took care of the next two steps in this Science Fair project.

#1. I weighed the boat and trailer in total...about 3,400 lbs.

#2. I took the boat to the lake, shoved it back 6", measured the tongue weight then pushed it back another 6" and measured again. After moving it the second time, I hit a tongue weight of around 340 lbs (which I'm MUCH more comfortable with). I could also see that the boat was sitting more comfortably on the bunks and the truck was not under near as much stress. I then snapped these three photos.

80033

80034

80035

Conclusion: I need to find a metal fabrication shop that will build a piece to extend my Boat Buddy one foot backward while not having to move the bow stop or winch. I then will beef up the V-block with a couple of 2x4's and re-wrap the carpet on it.

I will give you pictures of a finished product.

petermegan
06-11-2012, 03:30 AM
After one of my earlier comments I reckon I would the winch/boat buddy post and move it back, wouldn't be much to colour match. Glad you got the weight sorted and you will end up with a great setup.

Philscbx
06-13-2012, 04:40 PM
I hit a tongue weight of around 340 lbs (which I'm MUCH more comfortable with). I could also see that the boat was sitting more comfortably on the bunks and the truck was not under near as much stress.
80033

Conclusion: I need to find a metal fabrication shop that will build a piece to extend my Boat Buddy one foot backward Looks easy to do - cold cut the buddy post & brace clean off - remove step pad - re-weld in place - wire feed can get it done w/o much fuss - and little re-work for paint if wet blanket shields are used for splatter.

Should be trailer fab guys near by.

petermegan
08-12-2012, 05:59 AM
tdjaster, well how did you get on, want to see some pics of the finished product please.

tdjaster
08-12-2012, 09:59 PM
A lot has happened to my trailer since the last post. Here's a recap:

I took it to a weld shop during the beginning of July. I asked them to slice off the entire bow stop, move it back one foot, and re-weld it. They did the work in one day and it cost $280. I then bought a non-skid step from Home Depot for $6 and cut it strategically to cover the old placement and as well as some of the weld marks. It certainly didn't look "factory" but it looked good enough for me.

This setup worked perfectly for about 3-4 trips to the lake...until...I was loading the boat about 2 weeks ago. I was coming in under light power and when the bow touched the Boat Buddy, I heard a "ping." This turned out to be a really bad "ping" because it was the sound of the entire boat stop breaking off. Yuck.

I rigged it temporarily with some winch ties and brought it back to the welder a few days later. He graciously accepted responsibility and fixed it without charge. The second edition of welding was done with much reinforcement and I am pretty certain I won't have any future problems.

The pictures below are of the fixed version. My last steps to finish the trailer is to clean up the welded parts either by matching paint or continuing my creative covering with non-skid pads.

And finally, pushing the bow stop back pushed the whole trailer back with severely decreased the tongue weight on the trailer. The boat rides MUCH smoother now. I am satisfied.

Anyone have ideas on how to easily raise the height of the V-shaped bow cradle? (see third picture)

82874

82875

82876

petermegan
08-12-2012, 11:13 PM
While you are at it you may as well cut it and lengthen the RHS, reweld and you are there. I reckon your welding guy could have done a bit better with his welds. Looks like he used the old stick welder. If he had cleaned it up properly and used his mig may have been a bit less for you to clean up. Does the job and at least you have your trailer tongue weight sorted.

Thrall
08-15-2012, 04:43 PM
Pad the v bunk up off of the frame.
Either use a big block of dimensional lumber, or maybe bolt some channel or tubing to the bunk frame and then screw teh bunk pads to teh top of that.