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Prostarski190
05-23-2012, 06:23 PM
Has anyone ever used JB Weld or Marine-Tex on an exterior engine block crack? If so did it work, what was your experience, and would you recommend either or?

Cloaked
05-23-2012, 08:25 PM
Has anyone ever used JB Weld or Marine-Tex on an exterior engine block crack? If so did it work, what was your experience, and would you recommend either or?Useless and worthless and should be outlawed. Some love it... It's a joke and not even a temp fix.

Yea yea... "It worked for me like a champ... bla bla..." .....................If you've never seen a JB repair fail at your expense, you'll keep going back to it until you do. Did I mention useless? Consider radiator leak stop too... :D Just throwing out an opinion based on experience... Also try Dry-Lok for your basement CMU wall..... I kid.. Useless too...

Fix it right. Sorry to hear about a cracked block but I'd replace it or find a person that understands metallurgy, cohesion of metals , and welding beyond the skills of "burning a rod" or feeding a wire.

.

mikeg205
05-23-2012, 08:32 PM
c'mon cloaked...don't hold back... :D just sayin' ^^+1

mdskier
05-23-2012, 08:34 PM
I bought a boat (not Mastercraft) about 12 years ago. After 2 years of very casual use (total of about 4 weeks a year) the engine failed. The mechanic that replaced it said the block had Jb Weld on it covering a crack.

So I agree with Cloaked, fix it right the first time. The JB Weld might hold up for a little while (or it might not).

Double D
05-23-2012, 08:49 PM
My brother in law used it on a Merc 305 I/O for a few years. Kept having to reapply it until he rebuilt it.


Sent from Never Neverland using my iPhone 4 on Tapatalk

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-23-2012, 08:51 PM
yes the crack can be welded and fixed, the cost will largely be associated with how much work you put in it, the welder won't do it in the boat, if you find a welder that says he can do it in the boat you need to find another guy to do it as this guy doesn't know what he's doing, the repaired area needs to be heated before the welding begins, and the engine will need to be taken apart so you'll either have to pay him to prep it or you remove and prep it yourself. I personally have had several blocks repaired this way, take it apart and sent it to a race shop.

ahhudgins
05-23-2012, 09:01 PM
I actually brought a trick ski home this week in order to repair a hole with JB Weld!

Repair a cheap trick ski? Yes.
Repair a cracked block? No.:D

Prostarski190
05-23-2012, 10:31 PM
I want to thank everyone who has taken the time to reply and offer their opinion. I do value the wealth of knowledge available here. I'm still weighing my options and gathering information.

ctjahn
05-24-2012, 05:47 AM
I feel it is complete crap and should never be used but.... that being said.... I aways carry it in the toolbox for emergency repairs.

I did use it on a race engine for a season. As previously stated it is a temporary fix and should never be considered perminent. Also agree it is all in how it is applied. I stripped the paint, degreased, used brake clean (no water in the block), heated the surface and spread it wide around the crack I had....

I have a very good welder contact who can weld cast iron but I didnt want to warp the block or heads mid season. (The process uses a LOT of heat to properly weld and penetrate).

After the season was done it was properly fixed with a weld, block and head were decked and pressure tested. It was an SOB to get off...(the JB). I needed to use an angle grinder to remove it.

Your mileage may vary.
cj

Ironhorse
05-24-2012, 08:42 AM
I used it once on a Raptor engine and got stuck in the hills when I lost 90% of my engine oil out the same crack. DO NOT USE THIS ON YOUR ENGINE. There is far too much risk of ruining a great day and leaving you stranded. Sorry to hear about your engine and good luck.

RustyMC
05-24-2012, 08:53 AM
My dad sold boats out of Knoxville for many years and you would be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't) at the number of people coming in to trade their 'well running' boats with JB holding together the block. People give dealers a bad rap but don't underestimate the crooked nature of John Q. Public

Stx221
05-24-2012, 10:59 AM
I have used JB Weld on a friends oil pan that had about a 2" crack or so in a car before. It held up for 2 years and about 20k miles with no issues. That was cheap cast aluminum and it held up very well, never leaked.

However, I wouldn't have done that to an engine block. I would pull the motor and either have it professionally welded and then pressure tested/rebuilt, or find a "junkyard" motor to put in its place.

Prostarski190
05-24-2012, 12:42 PM
I'm so thankful for all the replies and great advice please keep it coming. This is a new purchase and just discovered the engine crack. It appears the previous owner has attempted some type of patch. I have no idea what the material is but I began scraping it off with flat head screwdriver and it flakes like gasket type material. I've posted some photos at

mailto:Prostarski.66496@uploads.photobucket.com

I still haven't figured out how to post them here as all of my posting is done from my iPhone. The boat is 96 Prostar 190 with LT1 and powerslot trans. I'm thinking about peeling off all the attempted patchwork and see what's under there. Then possibly patching with JB Weld and get it out on the water to see if the transmission is in good shape. The engine runs now and as far as I can tell there's no water in the oil. My major concern is if I do continue to run this engine I may do more damage to other parts of the engine. Should I just go find an engine block and build it with the parts of my current engine and not run it at all? What block will work in place of chevy 350 LT1? Please advise. Thanks

Prostarski190
05-24-2012, 12:47 PM
Sorry, this is the address of posted photos.

http://m1257.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/Prostarski/1337727446.jpg.html?o=0

FrankSchwab
05-24-2012, 12:47 PM
It's May, it's time to be skiing not wrenching. I'd say give the JB a shot and hit the water. Watch the engine, keep an eye on the repair, and plan on fixing it correctly come October. Of course, if it's holding fine and there aren't any issues, push it back to the next October...

If you've got an external crack in the block, you may have internal ones also. Keep an eye on the oil condition - if it starts getting milky, you've got a choice to make. You can continue to run it, changing oil when you see a need, and plan on replacing the engine this winter, or you can stop, tear it down, and have a chance of saving what you have. If you've got multiple cracks, you may not end up having much choice anyway.

I had a friend who fixed a hole in the crankcase of his motorcycle with some silicone rubber, I wouldn't have imagined that it would hold up long-term to the hot oil circulating over it, but 5 years later it was still holding strong.

Good luck, and good skiing.

/frank

thatsmrmastercraft
05-24-2012, 01:04 PM
If there is any water getting into the oil, you will know right away as it gets very milky.

Granite_33
05-24-2012, 02:51 PM
My dad sold boats out of Knoxville for many years and you would be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't) at the number of people coming in to trade their 'well running' boats with JB holding together the block. People give dealers a bad rap but don't underestimate the crooked nature of John Q. Public

Those who deal with the public know no bounds of the dishonesty that takes place.......

Cloaked
05-24-2012, 05:17 PM
. Should I just go find an engine block and build it with the parts of my current engine and not run it at all? Please advise. Thanks

Sell the boat and stop trying to post pictures.... You bought someone else's problem and you're stuck with fixing it. .... dammit boy :D :D


Unless you have it all MTed and /or PTed to seek out other damage, I'd abort any idea of anything less than a new or proven-tested rebuild. If there is one issue, there are more.... Been all down that road. I'd never have touched that boat with a 10 foot pole from looking at the initial pictures that you posted. Not dissing you or your choice but damn... Ray Charles could have seen this coming.....and then you ask about a half-way (a$$ed) fix with JB Weld.... you're kEElin' me....try silicone....

Reality.... $0.02

.

Lumbergh
05-24-2012, 06:35 PM
@cloaked:

Don't sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel.

Feel sick for the OP, that just looks like a money pit.

RustyMC
05-24-2012, 06:41 PM
@cloaked:

I guess we all know how you would respond when someone asks if "does this make my a$$ big?"

:rolleyes:

Cloaked
05-24-2012, 09:35 PM
@cloaked:

I guess we all know how you would respond when someone asks if "does this make my a$$ big?"

:rolleyes:You'll have to look in the mirror for your answer......

And to think, I previously used an emoticon for a reason.....

It's not about how I feel.....If I am wrong, then tell me how else you'd do this..... JB Weld? :D

Make it right the first time



:rolleyes:

wtrskr
05-25-2012, 01:10 PM
I'm so thankful for all the replies and great advice please keep it coming. This is a new purchase and just discovered the engine crack. It appears the previous owner has attempted some type of patch. I have no idea what the material is but I began scraping it off with flat head screwdriver and it flakes like gasket type material. I've posted some photos at

mailto:Prostarski.66496@uploads.photobucket.com

I still haven't figured out how to post them here as all of my posting is done from my iPhone. The boat is 96 Prostar 190 with LT1 and powerslot trans. I'm thinking about peeling off all the attempted patchwork and see what's under there. Then possibly patching with JB Weld and get it out on the water to see if the transmission is in good shape. The engine runs now and as far as I can tell there's no water in the oil. My major concern is if I do continue to run this engine I may do more damage to other parts of the engine. Should I just go find an engine block and build it with the parts of my current engine and not run it at all? What block will work in place of chevy 350 LT1? Please advise. Thanks

The first thing I'd do is take a brown paper bag full of poop, set it on the previous owners front porch, light it on fire, ring the doorbell and hope he stomps it out with his foot.

How long after your purchase did you notice the problem? Did the JB Weld work at first or was it a problem right away? I have no idea of the potential for success, but I'd look into whether you could somehow prove that the guy knew about the problem and misrepresented what he was selling. If he purposely sold away his problem, who knows, maybe you could get some money from him in a small claims court or something like that. There are a lot of assumptions in there but a cracked block materially changes the value of what you purchased.

d2jp
05-25-2012, 04:49 PM
Was this a one owner boat? If so, they knew of the crack. It not, then it would be harder to prove that the seller knew of the issue,....but I'd have to believe they did.
Clearly the boat was neglected, based upon the pics - usually a case of "buyer beware". However if you got the boat for a really good deal, and if you plan on keeping it and enjoying it for years to come, even if you paid too much - it's a awesome boat and deserves to be repaired correctly. Do that, and you will recoup way more in terms of enjoyment and the boat will hold it's value surprisingly well. If you are bummed out, just go price a brand new mastercraft....you will feel better real quick!

1redTA
05-25-2012, 05:08 PM
Lt1 blocks come in two varieties 4 bolt main (Corvette) or 2 bolt (camaro/firebird)

Both will work equally well with the 2 bolt being cheaper and easier to find

Cloaked
05-25-2012, 08:24 PM
Was this a one owner boat? If so, they clearly knew of the crack. It not, then it would be harder to prove that the seller knew of the issue,....but I'd have to believe they did.
Clearly the boat was neglected, based upon the pics - usually a case of "buyer beware". However if you got the boat for a really good deal, and if you plan on keeping it and enjoying it for years to come, even if you paid too much - it's a awesome boat and deserves to be repaired correctly. Do that, and you will recoup way more in terms of enjoyment and the boat will hold it's value surprisingly well. If you are bummed out, just go price a brand new master raft....you will feel better real quick!Agreed.....After seeing the guy in the 1990 Restore thread ( http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=47157 ), there's never room for being bummed. He took a total wreck and has it back in good condition. An amazing venture for a rebuild.

From an old boat I re-did, here is JB in action.... first pic is JB in the red outline and JB leak in the blue outline. Second pic is further damage on the head where JB wouldn't work. The entire head was cracked all the way across. The Magnetic Particle test is shown in black area and the actual crack is shown in the blue area. That is green particle powder held in the crack from the MT (in between the black diamonds). My previous point is illustrated; where there is damage in one place, often times it extends to further areas of damage. This head cracked all the way across. JB sprang a leak after only 2 hours of engine operation, and these pics were the result. Both heads were replaced, the block surface was visual tested, MTed and PTed prior to putting on new heads.

.

ahhudgins
05-25-2012, 09:46 PM
As I mentioned previously, I just purchased my first tube of JB Weld to fill some holes in my trick skis. My dremel tool cut through it like butter and it was pretty easy to file and sand it smooth. That being said, I would only use JB weld on an engine block in an emergency case to get me from point A to B. Then I would pull the engine and have it repaired or replaced.

imracin68j
05-25-2012, 10:01 PM
That looks like your heads, not your block. Just yank the heads off and have redone.

Prostarski190
05-26-2012, 12:49 AM
The first thing I'd do is take a brown paper bag full of poop, set it on the previous owners front porch, light it on fire, ring the doorbell and hope he stomps it out with his foot.

How long after your purchase did you notice the problem? Did the JB Weld work at first or was it a problem right away? I have no idea of the potential for success, but I'd look into whether you could somehow prove that the guy knew about the problem and misrepresented what he was selling. If he purposely sold away his problem, who knows, maybe you could get some money from him in a small claims court or something like that. There are a lot of assumptions in there but a cracked block materially changes the value of what you purchased.

Wtrskr, I've had the boat a few weeks but just now discovered the cracked block. Like most boats this one has a story. It is a one owner boat, the previous owner spared no expense when he bought this 96 190 directly from the factory. It has all available options for that model year. The boat was well cared for and used only a few hours a year as it only has 300 hours. A few years back the owner died and his wife assumed ownership. Apparently she loaned it to her nephew and for a couple years he had it in Atlanta. Last year the widow and her new boyfriend went to Atlanta to get it, brought it back to Knoxville and took it out a few times last summer. After the summer the boat was taken to her unkles and apparently by the looks of it sat out all fall and winter. Supposedly the water was drained for winter. The widow and her new fiancÚ say they know nothing about a cracked block or the repair. And the nephew is in Afganstan. That's the story, and they're sticking to it.

Prostarski190
05-26-2012, 12:54 AM
Lt1 blocks come in two varieties 4 bolt main (Corvette) or 2 bolt (camaro/firebird)

Both will work equally well with the 2 bolt being cheaper and easier to find

How much should I expect to spend on the block and where would be the best place to look? Can you buy the block alone or should I get the whole short block? Thanks

Prostarski190
05-26-2012, 01:03 AM
Was this a one owner boat? If so, they knew of the crack. It not, then it would be harder to prove that the seller knew of the issue,....but I'd have to believe they did.
Clearly the boat was neglected, based upon the pics - usually a case of "buyer beware". However if you got the boat for a really good deal, and if you plan on keeping it and enjoying it for years to come, even if you paid too much - it's a awesome boat and deserves to be repaired correctly. Do that, and you will recoup way more in terms of enjoyment and the boat will hold it's value surprisingly well. If you are bummed out, just go price a brand new mastercraft....you will feel better real quick!


Some people rescue animals. I rescue neglected MasteCrafts. It breaks my heart to see these awesome boats in such sad shape. I feel I got a good price, I felt I could replace the interior and engine and still make money if I sold it.

Philscbx
05-26-2012, 06:57 AM
I'm guessing the crack is under the exhaust manifolds at about the freeze plugs.

That's not that tough to weld with stainless wirefeed. Old tractors I've restored, there is no choice.
The entire side of block was cracked.

I use a very advanced miller welder thats welded frozen cracked blocks and manifolds.
Even manifolds missing their ears for a fastener were recreated from nothing.

Just as stated, the area needs basically rosebud torch to prewarm then weld an inch, preheat again, go another inch.

I had to learn the hardway when girlfriend left the water on at the cabin.
Faucets from the kitchen were in the living room from freezing, blew that far away.

The pump housing was another story, it was simply a pile of cast iron on the floor.
With stainless steel safety wire from working on aircraft, the pie shaped pieces wire forced together and brazed, preheated with 3 torches at the same time.
Still in use 15 years later. Another, they don't make those parts.

The engine doesn't need to come apart.
The air gap in the water jacket is more than enough space.
It's simply a tough place to get at in that zone.
So when looking for a welder, pick a small guy.

Do a craiglist ad looking for one, to local sources like Napa to find a guy.

Jerseydave
05-26-2012, 08:43 AM
I'm guessing the crack is under the exhaust manifolds at about the freeze plugs.

That's not that tough to weld with stainless wirefeed. Old tractors I've restored, there is no choice.
The entire side of block was cracked.

I use a very advanced miller welder thats welded frozen cracked blocks and manifolds.
Even manifolds missing their ears for a fastener were recreated from nothing.

Just as stated, the area needs basically rosebud torch to prewarm then weld an inch, preheat again, go another inch.

I had to learn the hardway when girlfriend left the water on at the cabin.
Faucets from the kitchen were in the living room from freezing, blew that far away.

The pump housing was another story, it was simply a pile of cast iron on the floor.
With stainless steel safety wire from working on aircraft, the pie shaped pieces wire forced together and brazed, preheated with 3 torches at the same time.
Still in use 15 years later. Another, they don't make those parts.

The engine doesn't need to come apart.
The air gap in the water jacket is more than enough space.
It's simply a tough place to get at in that zone.
So when looking for a welder, pick a small guy.

Do a craiglist ad looking for one, to local sources like Napa to find a guy.

I agree.....I think it's worth a try to weld it up if you find a good welder. 16 year old boat, why not try and fix her that way, even if it only buys you a season or 2. Should cost under $200 I would think.

1redTA
05-26-2012, 10:13 AM
How much should I expect to spend on the block and where would be the best place to look? Can you buy the block alone or should I get the whole short block? Thanks

I purchased a complete running engine (2 bolt) for $600, check your local machine shops for a shortblock

Prostarski190
05-26-2012, 11:05 AM
I purchased a complete running engine (2 bolt) for $600, check your local machine shops for a shortblock

Is it ok to use a regular auto small block for marine use? Thanks 1redTA

Cloaked
05-26-2012, 12:02 PM
Is it ok to use a regular auto small block for marine use? Thanks 1redTA
All of these engines are the same base setup, then the marine manufacturer will marinize the engine for marine use. Yes, a block from an auto will work.

Good luck with the refurb. You're on the right track. Thanks Cloaked

.

Cloaked
05-26-2012, 12:04 PM
I use a very advanced miller welder thats welded frozen cracked blocks and manifolds.What advanced welder do you have for welding to this application? Make and model number?

d2jp
05-26-2012, 02:26 PM
Some people rescue animals. I rescue neglected MasteCrafts. It breaks my heart to see these awesome boats in such sad shape. I feel I got a good price, I felt I could replace the interior and engine and still make money if I sold it.

Even better!

Cloaked
05-26-2012, 03:37 PM
What advanced welder do you have for welding to this application? Make and model number?Well? :D Just curious as to this advanced technique...

Prostarski190
05-29-2012, 09:21 AM
Does anyone know if a brack in the block could be the cause of high idle? It's my understanding the idle is controlled by the ECU on the LT1. My boat idles at 1100 RPM's even after warm up. Any advice?

Craig
05-29-2012, 10:28 AM
Check the IAC (Idle Air Controller) or TPS (Throttle Position Sensor)

Prostarski190
05-29-2012, 10:55 AM
Check the IAC (Idle Air Controller) or TPS (Throttle Position Sensor)

Thank you Craig. Can you be more specific please, do you have photos?
Thanks,

cpr05xtr
05-30-2012, 01:21 PM
I have actually used jb weld on a boat (not a mastercraft) a few years ago and it actually worked for quite a while. You do run the risk of it failing but if you do it rite it will work for temporary until you can afford to get the repair done or winter comes around.

wtrskr
05-30-2012, 01:28 PM
Thank you Craig. Can you be more specific please, do you have photos?
Thanks,

You should be able to pull the engine codes to see if there are any problems related to the sensors. I had a problem with my Map sensor and found out about it by pulling the codes. Search for paper clip and codes.

I'm not sure but I would think that a cracked engine block could be messing everything up. I don't know if it is even worthwhile worrying about the idle until you get the crack taken care of.

I'm interested to see how your situation turns out. Shortly after purchasing my prostar ('94 TBI) I found out it had a blown head gasket. It stunk at the time, but looking back, even with the gasket problem, I don't regret the purchase because I was able to fix it myself and learned a lot in the process.

Prostarski190
05-31-2012, 12:30 PM
I have actually used jb weld on a boat (not a mastercraft) a few years ago and it actually worked for quite a while. You do run the risk of it failing but if you do it rite it will work for temporary until you can afford to get the repair done or winter comes around.

Thanks cpr05xtr, it seems some have had success with JB Weld and some have not. I'm guessing it depends on several factors, how bad the crack is, how well the repair is done, location of crack, etc. I haven't done anything yet but I think I'm gonna strip away the current repair job, which is a joke, to evaluate. At that point I'll decide if JB is a option. I know the JB will be only a tempory fix. If I go with the JB it will be more to evaluate the condition of the transmission and overall running condition.

Philscbx
06-01-2012, 02:40 PM
What advanced welder do you have for welding to this application? Make and model number?The latest build by Miller - in the 140model line using SS & gas shielding.
Not currently at the shop for #'s.

No china junk from HarborFrieght.

Prostarski190
07-11-2012, 10:57 PM
After much debate and info gathering I decided to sell the 96 190. It was really hard to let it go but I sold it to someone with more knowledge than me. He told me he was going to replace the block and interior. Thanks to all who offered their advice and shared their experiences with similar problems.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-11-2012, 11:07 PM
After much debate and info gathering I decided to sell the 96 190. It was really hard to let it go but I sold it to someone with more knowledge than me. He told me he was going to replace the block and interior. Thanks to all who offered their advice and shared their experiences with similar problems.

Best of luck, and hope you get back on the water soon...