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View Full Version : What Company Would You Rather Have A Marine Engine By?


O2BESOHUGE
05-22-2012, 03:28 PM
And Why?

Indmar?
Mercruiser?
Pleasure Craft?
Or Other?

Jay

FourFourty
05-22-2012, 03:42 PM
Ilmore..... Mostly because it seems like there is very, very little issues with them. Not to mention, they are a little bit easier to service.

east tx skier
05-22-2012, 04:05 PM
I have a fourteen year old Ford engine marinized by PCM and it has been trouble free (knock wood) for the 5 years I have owned it.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cJ51PTGaXCc/Sl3oTW2nnWI/AAAAAAAACXo/OGD10mW49AE/s800/GT40.jpg

Kyle
05-22-2012, 04:07 PM
Is this engine for your '91 190?

mikeg205
05-22-2012, 04:13 PM
Ilmore..... Mostly because it seems like there is very, very little issues with them. Not to mention, they are a little bit easier to service.

Hard to say...Ilmore still a bit too new for me to agree with... It's the serviceability down the road.

I like PCM and Indmar because I have a '95 350 and I can get most parts at the local NAPA Dealer. Plus my local independent mechanic can work on it.

mikeg205
05-22-2012, 04:17 PM
Is this engine for your '91 190?

I believe its from his "N" boat...:D

broncotw
05-22-2012, 04:19 PM
I have had engines with marinization by BOTH Indmar and PCM.... Although I have never had any significant issues with either one I prefer Indmar.....

mikeg205
05-22-2012, 04:22 PM
I have had engines with marinization by BOTH Indmar and PCM.... Although I have never had any significant issues with either one I prefer Indmar.....

Why do you prefer Indmar?

O2BESOHUGE
05-22-2012, 04:23 PM
Just Curious...mine Is Running Fine. Just Wondering For When I Start Looking For A 197 And What That Boat Has

TRBenj
05-22-2012, 04:52 PM
Your options are going to be limited by the years of boats youre considering. Pretty sure MC hasnt offered PCM since the mid-80's. Indmar was the only option through 2010. Ilmore and Indmar were offered in '11 and now its all Ilmore starting in '12.

east tx skier
05-22-2012, 05:07 PM
I believe the cutoff for PCM in a MC was somewhere midcycle of 1987.

Jim@BAWS
05-22-2012, 06:19 PM
I believe the cutoff for PCM in a MC was somewhere midcycle of 1987.

1986 1/2

Sullivan
05-22-2012, 06:25 PM
I can tell you the Ilmore seems to be a great engine. Super easy to maintaine due to the extra thought put into the motor layout. Super smooth and quiet. They are big, I kind of miss the PCM and Indmar size.

Mastercraftdave
05-22-2012, 06:31 PM
I cant say anything bad about Indmar. I had a Malibu VLX with and Indar and for 8 years i never had one problem with the engine and it took alot of abuse from the extra weight.

I will say I am happy with illmor but when we first got the boat after two hours the water impellor went out and on the 6.2 its a pain to change because you have to remove the belt and pulleys to get to the impellor and now the belt whines. Had to bring it to the dealer this week to see what is wrong.

east tx skier
05-22-2012, 06:49 PM
1986 1/2

Not doubting you, but confused. Was Brian's a repower?

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=1&pictureid=2

snork
05-22-2012, 07:36 PM
I'm on a Ilmor bandwagon, They have been in the marine industry for a few years as well as car and motorcycle. I like that Ilmor puts more into R&D improving their performance daily.

Jim@BAWS
05-22-2012, 08:00 PM
Not doubting you, but confused. Was Brian's a repower?

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=1&pictureid=2

Doug...I purchased that 87 as HULL ONLY...SOLD it, prior owner before Brian, he repowered it. (MASTERCRAFTMARK). A combo or INDMAR, PCM and what ever he could strap on a Ford 351.

PCMINDMAR Hybrid!!!

MC did a midyear change in 1986 and went from PCM to INDMAR

Jim@BAWS

east tx skier
05-22-2012, 08:47 PM
Doug...I purchased that 87 as HULL ONLY...SOLD it, prior owner before Brian, he repowered it. (MASTERCRAFTMARK). A combo or INDMAR, PCM and what ever he could strap on a Ford 351.

PCMINDMAR Hybrid!!!

MC did a midyear change in 1986 and went from PCM to INDMAR

Jim@BAWS

Okay, got it. Looks like, at the least, it's using PCMesque exhaust risers, alternator, and water pump.

I think a better story would have been that that engine was the exact point that they went from PCM to Indmar. ;)

Lars
05-22-2012, 09:22 PM
I dig my MCX but....

How about a Toyota 5.7 V8 with dual overhead cams, intake runners, and VVTI??? :D

BMcD
05-22-2012, 09:57 PM
Indmar all the way.

Why you ask? They stand behind their product. Let's just say I "know somebody" that was purchasing a repo'd boat. During the inspection it was identified that the engine had an oil pressure issue. Even though out of warrantee Indmar rebuilt the engine at no cost so the dealership could sell the boat. Now that is service you just don't find these days.

BMcD
'06 X45
www.LiveDay1.com

DooSPX
05-22-2012, 10:49 PM
I do not have an opinion one way or the other, they all seem to be great. My Indmar Ford in my 91 PS190 has been great.

Now, to clear the record about Ilmor, not only do they produce racing engines for the auto racing scene, they have been in the high performance marine offshore scene for a very long time.

vision
05-22-2012, 11:12 PM
All good. I will take a PCM if given the choice.

ttu
05-22-2012, 11:20 PM
I dig my MCX but....

How about a Toyota 5.7 V8 with dual overhead cams, intake runners, and VVTI??? :D

hmm, brings back the thoughts of the toyota epic. you could go all day on a tank of gas!:D

madcityskier
05-22-2012, 11:27 PM
My PCM has 1965 hrs. Never done anything more than tune ups, oil changes, one oil pump, and one repair to the starter since it was purchased new in 85. Took 5 kids out tonight, three who had never been. Set the choke, let it idle for one minute while unhooking it from the trailer and for the next three hours not one issue. Get the swim Mets back in the boat, put a board on someone and turn the key. We're off. I know plenty of people who love their Indmars, but I'm a PCM boy for sure.

rhsprostar
05-23-2012, 12:45 AM
I think they all make decent products. I have had success with both Indmar and PCM.
The most important thing IMHO, is how each motor has been treated and MAINTAINED.
I don't care what brand you have, if it has been abused it's going to be trouble.

Now, that being said, I have heard that the 5.7 PCM's in the new Nautique 200's have been burning a decent amount of oil between regular changes......:popcorn:

TRBenj
05-23-2012, 11:17 AM
Now, that being said, I have heard that the 5.7 PCM's in the new Nautique 200's have been burning a decent amount of oil between regular changes......:popcorn:
That would be news to me. PCM has been using the same 350 long block since 2002 in their Excal motors. Probably the same longblock that all the other marinizers (Indmar and Ilmore included) are using as well.

None of the Excals I ski/skied behind drank a drop of oil, as far as I know.

rhsprostar
05-23-2012, 11:46 AM
Not in the 196's just the 200's......perhaps the higher rpm's that the 200's have to run?

sp00ky
05-23-2012, 11:48 AM
I have a fourteen year old Ford engine marinized by PCM and it has been trouble free (knock wood) for the 5 years I have owned it.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cJ51PTGaXCc/Sl3oTW2nnWI/AAAAAAAACXo/OGD10mW49AE/s800/GT40.jpg

Sorry to thread jack but ETS you zip tied your oil drain hose up. Just curious what's the purpose of this looks interesting.

TRBenj
05-23-2012, 01:55 PM
Not in the 196's just the 200's......perhaps the higher rpm's that the 200's have to run?
Not sure why it would be any different... surely there are 196's that pull a lot of barefooting (I know of a few). Its not like the rev limiter is set any different between the 2 boats.

Again, this is the first Ive heard of it... no mention of any such occurrence on CCFan or PN. Or from the dealer I speak with regularly.

JohnE
05-23-2012, 02:50 PM
Glad I haven't heard of any Indmar's burning a lot of oil. :o (cough, cough, L18)

east tx skier
05-23-2012, 06:27 PM
Sorry to thread jack but ETS you zip tied your oil drain hose up. Just curious what's the purpose of this looks interesting.

Previous owner may have done that. I still have it zip tied with a metal clip holding it in place, but a little more out of the way. Seemed better to me to keep it out of the sludge that might make its way into the bilge over time. It doesn't get all that hot in there and the zip tie has held up fine.

snork
05-23-2012, 07:24 PM
Can't help myself everytime I view this website, engine porn
http://www.ilmor.com/en/racing/

DooSPX
05-23-2012, 08:44 PM
lets get a few other things out too about Marine engine companies, all of the long blocks are automotive.... If a engine has a problem using oil, its not Indmar, PCM, Ilmor, etc fault. Its the particular engine, period. All they do is add on the intakes and all the marine parts, ECU's, etc.

DemolitionMan
05-23-2012, 10:22 PM
Why did MC switch from PCM to Indmar?

Thrall
05-23-2012, 11:40 PM
Why did MC switch from PCM to Indmar?

Why did they switch from Indmar to Ilmor?

Thrall
05-23-2012, 11:45 PM
Like Doo said. All the smaller engines ( I think) in towboats right now are still good ole Chevy 350's. Probably the most venerable engine of modern time.
That said, Indmar stepped up to the plate on my old MC, a '96 and actually covered 1/2 the cost of a major component replacement that was clearly out of warranty AND had already been replaced once due to the previous owner's error. THAT is customer service!

lt14me
05-24-2012, 11:57 PM
I prefer Indmar due to the fact that in 93' they obviously were smarter then the gm engineers, when they realized the opti-spark system on the lt-1 was prone to moisture issues, and the first opti-sparks did not have a drain hole in it.. Indmar decided to install the northstar ignition system with the coil packs instead, and now I have 907 trouble free hours....(knocking on wood)...

46Chief
12-23-2012, 06:46 PM
Considering repower option for prostar 209 and learned That PCM is the only mfg thats computer will work with Zero off system. being that I don't care about perfect slalom course times and don't want to spend the xtra money for a New cruise control. I think I won't do an 8500.00 repower and will look at longblock options.

Edit: Just visited the Ilmore site and it looks like their ecu is compatible with Zero off also.

mikeg205
12-23-2012, 06:55 PM
Here's some folks you should at least talk to... http://www.michiganmotorz.com

mikeg205
12-23-2012, 06:58 PM
Why did they switch from Indmar to Ilmor?

Thrall noticed that you did not get a response. Wayzata Private Equity (Minnesota) manages both Ilmor and Mastercraft. The press releases claimed it was for differentiation - could be but I personally see it's purely financial by keeping the $$$ in the family.

Ilmor uses the GM Block iirc as well --

eack - only 7 months to get a reply for you ... ;)

Jerseydave
12-23-2012, 07:04 PM
Love my MCX by Indmar, but I'd love to see a diesel engine option in the V-drives that would cut my fuel useage and be reliable for a reasonable price. VW Toureg diesel, 5 cyll Dodge Sprinter diesel, Duramax, Cummins 5.9, old 7.3 Powerstroke or even a small CAT 3126 diesel would be nice. Better economy, longer engine life, less chance of explosion (which should result in lower insurance costs)
All the big cruisers have diesels so makes perfect sense for a heavy wakeboard boat (not for a ski boat)

mikeg205
12-23-2012, 07:14 PM
Love my MCX by Indmar, but I'd love to see a diesel engine option in the V-drives that would cut my fuel useage and be reliable for a reasonable price. VW Toureg diesel, 5 cyll Dodge Sprinter diesel, Duramax, Cummins 5.9, old 7.3 Powerstroke or even a small CAT 3126 diesel would be nice. Better economy, longer engine life, less chance of explosion (which should result in lower insurance costs)
All the big cruisers have diesels so makes perfect sense for a heavy wakeboard boat (not for a ski boat)

Good point Jerseydave - not sure why diesel never took here in north america. We have the infrastructure...the newer engines don't spew the black...maybe it had to do with some politics and how fuel is refined. There's this resto (http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=33716) the used a Steyr diesel - and a VW engine was available but more expensive.

There was a prototype for sale a while ago - not sure it sold...owner wanted way too much for it.

JohnE
12-24-2012, 09:59 AM
Considering repower option for prostar 209 and learned That PCM is the only mfg thats computer will work with Zero off system. being that I don't care about perfect slalom course times and don't want to spend the xtra money for a New cruise control. I think I won't do an 8500.00 repower and will look at longblock options.

Edit: Just visited the Ilmore site and it looks like their ecu is compatible with Zero off also.

Indmar is compatible with ZO...:confused:

TMC
12-26-2012, 06:25 PM
Thrall noticed that you did not get a response. Wayzata Private Equity (Minnesota) manages both Ilmor and Mastercraft. The press releases claimed it was for differentiation - could be but I personally see it's purely financial by keeping the $$$ in the family.

Ilmor uses the GM Block iirc as well --

eack - only 7 months to get a reply for you ... ;)

Actually Wayzata only owns MC. Ilmor (which owns Ilmor Marine) is partly owned by Roger Penske. In other words, Wayzata has nothing to do with Ilmor.

As for the reason for the switch, it really comes down to synergies between the two companies and our desire to work with someone who would exclusively handle our power plant needs. Because of the size of the industry, no one was willing to work exclusively with us until Ilmor decided they wanted to get into the marine business beyond high-performance powerboats (especially racing). It took over 2 years to develop the first engine with them but other than a few hiccups (mainly due to GM issues), we have had a wildly successful relationship with them. In fact, our power train warranties are down 85% after initiating Ilmor into the line up in 2011.

You will want to keep an eye on the Ilmor Marine bunch - they have a lot of exciting plans coming in the next few years. Needless to say, we will be happy to be partners with them for years to come.

And if you have the time, here are some Ilmor vids we just shot for the dealers...

ILMOR STORY:
http://vimeo.com/50227097

ILMOR 7.4L STORY:
http://vimeo.com/50226262

Jason

501s
12-26-2012, 06:58 PM
I had the Ilmor 5.7 in my 2012 X-30 and it was awesome. Not a single complaint or problem to speak of, just quality, reliability and power.

mikeg205
12-26-2012, 07:09 PM
Actually Wayzata only owns MC. Ilmor (which owns Ilmor Marine) is partly owned by Roger Penske. In other words, Wayzata has nothing to do with Ilmor.

As for the reason for the switch, it really comes down to synergies between the two companies and our desire to work with someone who would exclusively handle our power plant needs. Because of the size of the industry, no one was willing to work exclusively with us until Ilmor decided they wanted to get into the marine business beyond high-performance powerboats (especially racing). It took over 2 years to develop the first engine with them but other than a few hiccups (mainly due to GM issues), we have had a wildly successful relationship with them. In fact, our power train warranties are down 85% after initiating Ilmor into the line up in 2011.

You will want to keep an eye on the Ilmor Marine bunch - they have a lot of exciting plans coming in the next few years. Needless to say, we will be happy to be partners with them for years to come.

And if you have the time, here are some Ilmor vids we just shot for the dealers...

ILMOR STORY:
http://vimeo.com/50227097

ILMOR 7.4L STORY:
http://vimeo.com/50226262

Jason

Dwon 85% - outstanding!!!

mikeg205
12-26-2012, 07:15 PM
Actually Wayzata only owns MC. Ilmor (which owns Ilmor Marine) is partly owned by Roger Penske. In other words, Wayzata has nothing to do with Ilmor.

As for the reason for the switch, it really comes down to synergies between the two companies and our desire to work with someone who would exclusively handle our power plant needs. Because of the size of the industry, no one was willing to work exclusively with us until Ilmor decided they wanted to get into the marine business beyond high-performance powerboats (especially racing). It took over 2 years to develop the first engine with them but other than a few hiccups (mainly due to GM issues), we have had a wildly successful relationship with them. In fact, our power train warranties are down 85% after initiating Ilmor into the line up in 2011.

You will want to keep an eye on the Ilmor Marine bunch - they have a lot of exciting plans coming in the next few years. Needless to say, we will be happy to be partners with them for years to come.

And if you have the time, here are some Ilmor vids we just shot for the dealers...

ILMOR STORY:
http://vimeo.com/50227097

ILMOR 7.4L STORY:
http://vimeo.com/50226262

Jason

Thanks for the clarification... my thought process was working from this article. http://www.boatingworld.com/Engines/Article/Ilmor

Posted: February 1, 2011

By: Alan Jones

The purest example of racing technology filtering down to the recreational sector is the Ilmor V-8 engines that are powering new MasterCraft boats. Started in 1984, Ilmor only built racing engines for cars and offshore boats prior to 2010. Company founders Mario Illien, Paul Morgan and Roger Penske, racing legend and the new owner of MasterCraft Boats, worked with Chevrolet to build a turbo­charged engine for Indy cars. Ilmor later teamed up with Mercedes Benz to build Formula 1 and Indy cars; shortly after, it joined forces with Penske Racing South to build motors for NASCAR. Mercedes Benz wanted to concentrate on F1, so it formed the Special Projects Group to handle all non-F1 ventures. The Special Projects Group was later purchased by Illien and Penske (Morgan died in a plane crash).

Ilmor first ventured into the marine market in 2002 by building a V-8 for the APBA SuperCat Series. Later it specialized in building ultra-reliable 10-cylinder models (a marinized Dodge Viper motor) with its own INDY Stern Drive system. Penske purchased MasterCraft in 2007, and it seemed natural that he use his 50,000-square-foot facility on the Penske Racing campus in Mooresville, N.C., to build the boats' engines. You can still order a MasterCraft with an Indmar engine, but starting in 2012, MasterCraft will end its 25-year relationship with the Millington, Tenn., engine builder. This year, there are three versions available: 5.7L, 6.0L and 6.2L; horsepower undisclosed.

kskonn
12-27-2012, 11:49 AM
Considering repower option for prostar 209 and learned That PCM is the only mfg thats computer will work with Zero off system. being that I don't care about perfect slalom course times and don't want to spend the xtra money for a New cruise control. I think I won't do an 8500.00 repower and will look at longblock options.

Edit: Just visited the Ilmore site and it looks like their ecu is compatible with Zero off also.

that is not true. In order for your motor to be compatible with zero off it needs to have an Econtrols ECU. Econtrols is the company that makes zero off and since zero off integrates with the computer it only works with their brand. I have an indmar, with an econtrols module, and since they are a customer if mine I know they make module for most of the engine companies.

As of 2013, they are the only provider to Mastercraft(via Ilmor) they are also making the harnesses and the screens. Their Parent company is FW Murphy ( the Murphy System).