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imjusthereforthefood
05-21-2012, 04:58 PM
Hey guys, doing a few little things before my boat is sold(have a few guys interested)...

I have one battery. Not sure on the CCA/etc right now but will look when I get off today. My problem is:

when idling the volt gauge shows around 11v causing my perfect pass to reset and beep every second. i've unplugged PP a few times out there to see if it changed anything and my voltage shot up to 12v(afaik 14v is ideal). i'm just unsure if i should look into replacing the battery first or alternator. i just want to get this small issue fixed before someone buys it. i will note i think it's the alternator due to the boat cranks first time every time. i haven't put a charger on the battery in 10 hours(been out 4 or 5 times since first charge of the year).. i can idle for a while(running sub and amps) and never have a problem cranking later.

does any one know what voltage the stock alternator is on 87 PS 190(351 indmar)?

just curious what direction i should go seeking out the voltage problem.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-21-2012, 05:25 PM
You can check voltage (my 89 consistently runs around 13.5) while engine running at battery, alternator, starter solenoid if all these show higher than the voltage meter on dash then you have an issue between the engine harness that feeds the dash (corrosion, loose connections,voltage drop, etc.), if this is the case a new power wire will probably need to be run from engine to dash.

markismm
05-21-2012, 05:46 PM
Do you have a voltmeter. If not go out and buy a cheap one (usually less than 10 or 20 dollars), or borrow one. Place the positive electrode on the positive battery terminal and the negative one on the negative side while running. See what voltage is. If you have a single wire alternator first rev the motor to 2500 rpms or so one time to cut on the alternators charging system. If you have a three wire alt. simple check the voltage. At idle, you should be getting at a minimum 13.5 volts and more likely should be getting closer to 14-14.5 with the stereo off. If you are not getting the right voltage at idle, change the alternator. One thing to note, if you have a single wire alternator, your electric shop may try to tell you it is working fine when they test it. However, the single wire alternator may still be bad in as much as the automatic on off function has failed. This recently happened to mine and I just installed a new 3 wire delco 110 amp alt for less than 100 dollars. Works great now and have full 14.4 volts at idle speed. With stereo and other equipment on, it drops to 14 or so volts.

imjusthereforthefood
05-21-2012, 10:58 PM
i hope it is the alternator. any one still know what size i should get tomorrow? o'riely's said they have 4 different types(watt difference) for the motor i told them i have.

is the wire harness from the engine to dash a huge pita?

JimN
05-21-2012, 11:17 PM
i hope it is the alternator. any one still know what size i should get tomorrow? o'riely's said they have 4 different types(watt difference) for the motor i told them i have.

is the wire harness from the engine to dash a huge pita?

If you have an auto electrical shop near you, have it checked first and if it needs help, just have it rebuilt or get one of the ones they should stock.

Also, you need a marine alternator, not a car unit.

They're not usually rated for Watts- they rate them for Amps (Amperes). You shouldn't need to do anything to the harness, other than check the terminals on the ends unless you see obvious damage to the wires. Clean and tighten the fasteners.

imjusthereforthefood
05-22-2012, 09:06 AM
Alright, so what size amp should I get? Also might pick up a voltage regulator, that could be a culprit too?

Last night I unplugged my perfect pass, and both amps and the voltage stayed at 11v making me think it's not the battery.

markismm
05-22-2012, 09:11 AM
I would recommend going with the same thing I just purchased. A 110 amp Delco marine alternator should be all you need. Very simple and should bolt right up. The question is whether or not you have a three wire or one wire alternator now. Check and see and then purchase a replacement accordingly. One of the best places to purchase one is on Ebay. Just type in Delco marine alternator and look at the results.

JimN
05-22-2012, 10:16 AM
I would recommend going with the same thing I just purchased. A 110 amp Delco marine alternator should be all you need. Very simple and should bolt right up. The question is whether or not you have a three wire or one wire alternator now. Check and see and then purchase a replacement accordingly. One of the best places to purchase one is on Ebay. Just type in Delco marine alternator and look at the results.

How would you mount that on a Ford engine when the brackets are set up for a Motorcraft alternator? Unless his boat has a lot of accessories, 110A is far more than he needs and he'd have to upgrade the charging lead. No offense to the OP, but he doesn't know what he needs- how would you expect him to know how to fabricate a new mount?

JimN
05-22-2012, 10:26 AM
Alright, so what size amp should I get? Also might pick up a voltage regulator, that could be a culprit too?

Last night I unplugged my perfect pass, and both amps and the voltage stayed at 11v making me think it's not the battery.

Clean all connections between the battery + and the starter. Do the same for the ground cable, especially at the rear of the engine. This is where your accessories are grounded. Disconnect the plug where the boat harness and engine harness join, looking for corrosion. Look at the ignition switch for corrosion on the terminals and screws.

Are you using the volt meter on the dash to decide that you need something? If you NEVER need to jump-start the engine, your alternator isn't bad. Use a digital multi-meter to check the voltage and measure this at the battery posts, not the terminals. EVERY connection must be referenced to the battery posts. If you see about 13VDC at rest and a maximum of around 14-15VDC at the posts at all times, with only minor drops when you turn all of the accessories on, your alternator and regulator are fine. If you see it drop as soon as you turn on one little accessory (I mean something that only draws a couple of Amperes) and it drops to about 10-11VDC when all of the accessories are on, I would suspect the regulator. The voltage should be lower at idle than at high RPM (above 2000) because, as the demand calls for the alternator to charge more, it's harder to turn and the pulley is sized to keep the engine RPM from dropping too far at idle.

Have your alternator, regulator and battery checked, if you think you have a problem. If you never need to jump-start it or charge is between going out, you don't need anything. Maybe a new voltmeter, but that may be about all. If you actually need to replace the alternator, have yours rebuilt and replace the regulator, especially if you want this whole ordeal to be as easy as possible.

MAKE NOTES OF WHICH WIRE(S) GO WHERE. Wire an alternator or regulator wrong and you will have wasted money & time.

thatsmrmastercraft
05-22-2012, 10:31 AM
Clean all connections between the battery + and the starter. Do the same for the ground cable, especially at the rear of the engine. This is where your accessories are grounded. Disconnect the plug where the boat harness and engine harness join, looking for corrosion. Look at the ignition switch for corrosion on the terminals and screws.

Are you using the volt meter on the dash to decide that you need something? If you NEVER need to jump-start the engine, your alternator isn't bad. Use a digital multi-meter to check the voltage and measure this at the battery posts, not the terminals. EVERY connection must be referenced to the battery posts. If you see about 13VDC at rest and a maximum of around 14-15VDC at the posts at all times, with only minor drops when you turn all of the accessories on, your alternator and regulator are fine. If you see it drop as soon as you turn on one little accessory (I mean something that only draws a couple of Amperes) and it drops to about 10-11VDC when all of the accessories are on, I would suspect the regulator. The voltage should be lower at idle than at high RPM (above 2000) because, as the demand calls for the alternator to charge more, it's harder to turn and the pulley is sized to keep the engine RPM from dropping too far at idle.

Have your alternator, regulator and battery checked, if you think you have a problem. If you never need to jump-start it or charge is between going out, you don't need anything. Maybe a new voltmeter, but that may be about all. If you actually need to replace the alternator, have yours rebuilt and replace the regulator, especially if you want this whole ordeal to be as easy as possible.

MAKE NOTES OF WHICH WIRE(S) GO WHERE. Wire an alternator or regulator wrong and you will have wasted money & time.

Great post. It's almost as if you have done this before.:rolleyes: It is sometimes very challenging to get the info from one's head onto the screen so it makes perfect sense.:toast:

markismm
05-22-2012, 11:24 AM
How would you mount that on a Ford engine when the brackets are set up for a Motorcraft alternator? Unless his boat has a lot of accessories, 110A is far more than he needs and he'd have to upgrade the charging lead. No offense to the OP, but he doesn't know what he needs- how would you expect him to know how to fabricate a new mount?

Don't know where you got the idea that a Delco Alternator would not mount up directly to a Ford engine. I have a 351w with PCM marinization and the alternator mounts directly up to it without any modification whatsoever. The stock mounts on his motor should allow for the same hookup as well, unless indmar changed everything. See my pic below for a shot of my alternator. Not mods to install this at all. The turnbuckle I used at the top I used in lieu of the standard mount because it is cleaner and a better mount. However, the standard mount works fine.

It should be the simplest straightforward swap you can make. As for the 110 amp suggestion, this may be a little on the high side, but it will not hurt the system at all and will give the flexibility to ensure a nice stereo system is never starving when being run with other accessories such as perfect pass. The 110 amp is actually less expensive than the comparable 80 amp based on my research.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/amndbrk1/2012-03-17_15-10-04_808.jpg

markismm
05-22-2012, 11:27 AM
I do agree that you will need to upgrade to a larger gauge charging lead however if you go with a higher output alternator.

SilviaMan
05-22-2012, 12:40 PM
replaced our stock one with a one wire from BHM years ago. IIRC it starts charging once rev'd over 1000 rpm. Has performed flawlessly.

imjusthereforthefood
05-22-2012, 01:45 PM
I'll be honest guys, I'm overwhelmed with things to check because I'm pretty novice in this area. However, I'm not looking to spend a lot of money on an alternator as the boat is for sale. I just want to fix the 11v issue so my perfect pass will stop beeping every other second resetting. I just wasn't sure if it was a battery issue or alternator. Now reading the informative posts(thanks!) that have been posted I'm hoping it's something simple.

What is the smallest amp rated alternator I can get? a 65-ampwas $29.99

imjusthereforthefood
05-22-2012, 01:48 PM
last year none of this was a problem. perfect pass never reset etc so i'm convinced the same one or one right around what i currently have will work.

imjusthereforthefood
05-22-2012, 01:52 PM
also, for what it's worth, my alternator is on the other side(in reference to the pic above).

imjusthereforthefood
05-22-2012, 01:54 PM
also, to clarify. here's is my problem.

it starts fine EVERY time. it idles fine, it never dies. something is causing my perfect pass to reset(power going on and off) beeping every single second basically until i am going fast enough to bring up to voltage.


my stereo works fine, etc. i unplugged both amps and perfect pass last night and the voltage never went up like one would assume.

SilviaMan
05-22-2012, 03:01 PM
where are you getting this 11v figure? from a volt gauge on the dash or from the PP itself?

imjusthereforthefood
05-22-2012, 03:13 PM
volt gauge display.

even if my gauge is wrong, the perfect pass still turns off every other second beeping. i'm just assuming here that it's all related to the 11v showing. although i could be dead wrong!

i called o'riely's to see about parts. they said i need a mastercraft alternator. sigh, guess i'll have to take mine in and match it up. i will be testing voltages along with other things mentioned tonight when i get off.


also, on the 87 series, is the voltage regulator a separate piece or by coupled with the alternator? the parts guy also asked if the starter selinoid was by itself away from the engine.

THANKS for all the help guys.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-22-2012, 03:28 PM
The voltage regulator is built inside the alternator.

imjusthereforthefood
05-22-2012, 05:12 PM
taking the alternator to o'riely's to test it. will also be inspecting the wires from the engine harness.

JimN
05-22-2012, 05:28 PM
volt gauge display.

even if my gauge is wrong, the perfect pass still turns off every other second beeping. i'm just assuming here that it's all related to the 11v showing. although i could be dead wrong!

i called o'riely's to see about parts. they said i need a mastercraft alternator. sigh, guess i'll have to take mine in and match it up. i will be testing voltages along with other things mentioned tonight when i get off.


also, on the 87 series, is the voltage regulator a separate piece or by coupled with the alternator? the parts guy also asked if the starter selinoid was by itself away from the engine.

THANKS for all the help guys.

Did you, or can you, measure the voltage at the battery posts, vs at the Perfect Pass? If you or someone else grabbed power and ground for the Perfect Pass from another gauge or whatever, that could be the whole problem. If the other device draws enough to cause a voltage drop at the Perfect Pass, it won't work correctly. I would bypass all of the dash wiring to test the Perfect Pass by connecting it directly to the battery. If it works that way, it would be a good idea to just run a 10ga red and black wire to the dash with a fuse at the battery, then mount a separate fuse block for that wire and a distribution block or terminal strip for the ground. Then, you'll know you have good juice to whatever you connect to it (not an amplifier, though).

As I posted- if you never have to jump start it or charge the battery because it won't crank at normal speed, I would say that there's not a problem with the alternator or battery. If it dies overnight, it would point to a bad regulator (the bridge rectifier inside, actually). If it does in a couple/few weeks, I would suspect the battery and possibly an accessory that's turning on frequently.

Testing wires/connections takes more than just looking at them. I can't begin to tell you how many times I saw connections that looked great, but weren't.

imjusthereforthefood
05-22-2012, 08:01 PM
Alright. Just used voltage meter on battery posts. 13v engine off. 14v engine running. Alternator the same. Trying to figure out how to read the perfect pass voltage.

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imjusthereforthefood
05-22-2012, 08:02 PM
Both amps as well 13v off. 14v running.

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imjusthereforthefood
05-22-2012, 08:36 PM
So is the golden colored box the main hot wire for perfect pass? Should I cut that and run it straight to the battery post?

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j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-22-2012, 08:45 PM
Back probe the pos wire and read voltage, while your at it back probe all components at the dash, ignition switch, voltage meter, dash lights etc. and see what the voltages are, this will confirm what I said way back in post #2...

93ProStar205
05-22-2012, 09:47 PM
OP-to reiterate since you are heading to oreilly's and trying to do this on the cheap, make sure you buy a marine alternator, not a normal automotive version. Auto versions lack ignition protection and can/will set of gas fumes under the motor box. Also, check the wiring behind the dash as others have said. The older boats are notorious for voltage drops back there. My 87 190 lost at least 1.5v between the battery and dash due to dirty connections. Also, alternators can be rebuilt by a local shop relatively inexpensively, so if it's dead, don't rule that out.

JimN
05-22-2012, 10:03 PM
So is the golden colored box the main hot wire for perfect pass? Should I cut that and run it straight to the battery post?

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2

That gold colored part in the photo with the red wire passing over it- does that have 6Ω on it? I have to wonder why it's there.

Look for the Perfect Pass red and black wires and find the splices in the wires for that. Follow the loom wherever it goes and check the connections.

JimN
05-22-2012, 10:04 PM
Both amps as well 13v off. 14v running.

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I would say there's no problem with the alternator. No reason to replace it.

markismm
05-23-2012, 09:05 AM
I would say there's no problem with the alternator. No reason to replace it.

Agreed. If you are getting that kind of voltage with engine running, sounds like no reason to replace alternator.

imjusthereforthefood
05-23-2012, 12:59 PM
yeah, definitely agree the parts i checked are fine. going to try and trace the PP tonight. should i still run a hot wire directly from battery to the PP bypassing the harness?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-23-2012, 02:57 PM
..........

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-23-2012, 02:58 PM
yeah, definitely agree the parts i checked are fine. going to try and trace the PP tonight. should i still run a hot wire directly from battery to the PP bypassing the harness?

I would not do that, bc it will constantly be powered up and drain the battery, unless you added a switch to turn it off, thats just a band aid, trace the wires and find out where its losing voltage...

imjusthereforthefood
05-23-2012, 04:57 PM
I would not do that, bc it will constantly be powered up and drain the battery, unless you added a switch to turn it off, thats just a band aid, trace the wires and find out where its losing voltage...

Not permanent. Just to narrow it down to the perfect pass. I figured if the voltage went up and problem went away then that would narrow it down to it being the perfect pass. I plan on tracing every wire from the perfect pass kit, just thought i could splice a small wire just to see..?