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k2mc
08-19-2005, 01:04 PM
I'm sure this has been talked about before, but the keywords to search on aren't too unique.

My '04 X-10 manual states that the engine should be running at a minimum of 1500rpm to fill the tanks. There is not a bleed system that robs from the raw water intake, there is a separate intake for the ballast. I can't figure out why engine speed would matter. The only thing I can think of, which seems like a stretch is that its taxing on the electrical system to have all 3 pumps running and running the engine up should help that, but that seems farfetched.

Thoughts?

Cary K.
08-19-2005, 01:11 PM
That is the only reason I could think of as well. I fill mine w/ engine at idle or off most of the time.

Tom023
08-19-2005, 01:13 PM
Good question. On my 2001 X30, I have three separate pumps, one for each tank. I thought they changed the system the next year to one pump, but maybe they just went to one intake instead of the three I have. Anyway, I fill mine all at the same time with the engine OFF and have not had any problems.

rem_pss308
08-19-2005, 01:40 PM
That is the reason:
The pumps draw a lot of current from the battery.
If your engine is running the pumps will also fill, and drain faster.

wiltok
08-19-2005, 01:54 PM
I have an 01 and the ballast fill from the lower part of the transom. If I'm moving at speed - they are out of the water. Maybe it doesn't apply to an 01 but it doesn't make sense to me.

DanC
08-19-2005, 01:59 PM
Using a stopwatch, one sack filled in 6:00 minutes at idle. Filled in 5:30 minutes at 2,500 RPM. I have Simer pumps which are very similar (at least motor-wise) to your stock pumps. (and I have a very robust 10-12 ga wire harness)

k2mc
08-19-2005, 02:35 PM
interesting. I didn't get my watch out, but it seemed to fill just fine at idle. I'll probably just continue to fill at idle and rev 'er up if I'm using lots of power elsewhere at the same time. Thanks guys.

Tom023
08-19-2005, 02:48 PM
I am going to test this weekend. As long as the pumps are getting around 12V I can't see how increasing RPM will make a difference. The only thing I can see being a possible issue is if the battery is undercharged or if the total draw on the system at the time of filling is exceeding the amps the alternator is putting out.

DanC
08-19-2005, 02:55 PM
I'm sure they fill just fine, my point was that an 8% improvement in fill time is not much.

I think the risk of running your pumps at low idle is that you will experience a voltage drop (brought on by the inability to supply enough current). I certainly see my volt meter drop when I turn on three pumps at idle. If the voltage drops too low, it can and will cause bad things to happen to your pumps. Heat goes up, speed gets slower, heat goes up more, draws more current, voltage gets lower, speed gets even slower, pump starts to bind......... People have a lot of problems with ballast systems like this, no matter what brand of boat.

I have found that my pumps fill just as quickly at 30 mph as they do when sitting still with a high 2,000 rpm idle. Sooooo we fill and empty while driving to and from our ski spots.

DanC
08-19-2005, 03:02 PM
I am going to test this weekend. As long as the pumps are getting around 12V I can't see how increasing RPM will make a difference. The only thing I can see being a possible issue is if the battery is undercharged or if the total draw on the system at the time of filling is exceeding the amps the alternator is putting out.


Your statement makes complete sense and that is what I assumed.

HOWEVER, I did a fair amount of testing during the winter and found this. One sack, two sacks or three sacks didn't matter, RPMs at 2,000-2,500 produced an 8% decrease in fill and empty times. I did not do any time trials with the engine off, but I can hear the pump whine go up when I turn the engine on, thus I am assuming that the battery alone can not supply enough current to even one pump for it to run at max speed.

Again, I think your statement makes complete sense, I will look forward to hearing how your tests turn out.

djhuff
08-19-2005, 03:57 PM
I usually fill the back two, then the middle. When I fill all 3 at the same time, it seems that one of the pumps gets starved for water. Watch the volt guage though, it will drop below 12 when you have them on at idle.

Tom023
08-19-2005, 04:04 PM
To be honest, I never have looked at the voltage when I hit the pumps, so if it drops much I am sure running the engine provides a benefit. What I did find, is that because the bow sac in the X30, at rest, is below the filler on my transom, I can fill it by opening the valve and just let gravity do it's thing.

X2M
08-19-2005, 04:29 PM
We were told by the dealer to run the boat at no less than 1500 rpms when filling and emptying the tanks. They said they fill up faster and there is less strain on the ballast pumps and the alternator/battery in the boat. Also if you empty while moving the tanks will empty all the way too.

I don't know the differences, if there are any, between the boats/ballast systems on boats earlier than my 2005. This is just what our dealer told us. :)

prostar205
08-19-2005, 06:25 PM
Will the ballast tanks actually fill while the boat is moving? I would think that the laminar flow of the water would go right over the water inlet and create a vacumm on the line.

X2M
08-19-2005, 07:23 PM
Will the ballast tanks actually fill while the boat is moving? I would think that the laminar flow of the water would go right over the water inlet and create a vacumm on the line.

The dealer did say to fill the tanks while in motion. Something about water flow, pressure and the ballast pumps. I'll ask my husband about it. :)

Tom023
08-19-2005, 07:51 PM
My fills are on the transom and I guess could fill at a few MPH, other than that, the inlets would be out of the water.

DanC
08-19-2005, 08:21 PM
Will the ballast tanks actually fill while the boat is moving? I would think that the laminar flow of the water would go right over the water inlet and create a vacumm on the line.

As I said

I have found that my pumps fill just as quickly at 30 mph as they do when sitting still with a high 2,000 rpm idle. Sooooo we fill and empty while driving to and from our ski spots.

This thread was started in reference to an '04 X series which has the bottom mounted mushroom feed, so my tests would only apply to such configuration.